FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[Carmi88]

23 minutes ago, Minotti said:

That is missing the point! All the effort the developers put on crap like this means less effort to put on things that ACTUALLY make the game FUN!! 

Some people find digging through all the stats and analysis fun though.

 

You state graphics as something to be improved, but people like me enjoy 2D, (and the weirdos who do commentary only ) so with your logic I think they should put less effort and resource on how the ME looks and focus more on other things 

[Costav]

40 minutes ago, Minotti said:

That is missing the point! All the effort the developers put on crap like this means less effort to put on things that ACTUALLY make the game FUN!! 

I agree with you that some other parts require more attention. This does not mean that the data hub is something that should be shut down.

[samrnpage]

I mean speak for yourselves. The fun part is diving into all the data and finding those hidden gems and wonderkids using it. 

[Craigus89]

48 minutes ago, Minotti said:

I don’t want to burst your bubble but this is a GAME. It’s really not anything close to reality. I doubt Ancelottj actually decides to send a player to language course for extensive learning and that he decides if the club should pay for it or not LOL! You don’t really think you’re close to being a real life manager for playing FM, I hope not!

You're right, its a game. People should be able to play it how they like, right? Some people enjoy stats and data, why would you want that gone just because you don't like it or think it should be a part of the game?

Carry on role playing like a proper football man if you want to, but don't wish others enjoyment away just because it doesn't conform to your 1990's view of what football should be.

And what has realism got to do with any of this, no one mentioned it nor cares.

[jmlima]

1 hour ago, Craigus89 said:

...

Carry on role playing like a proper football man if you want to, but don't wish others enjoyment away just because it doesn't conform to your 1990's view of what football should be.

...

Loba was already doing analytics even before the 90s. And he wasn't the only one. By mid-late 90s analytics were already coming into football. Yes, VHS tape style, but nevertheless. Caveman football really started to end by the late 70s. Heck, even direct football had a basis on percentages so that can potentially already be said to be analytics.

[Harima83]

I wonder if the Advanced Editor will have any issue, or even be removed, in FM25. I'm a bit worried.

Edited September 19 by Harima83

[wazzaflow10]

8 hours ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

The Console version is for the veterans. Championship Manager's Amiga player, here. FM is for new maniacs of data and people without a life, FMC is for those who cares about the meat, we old players and new (non-maniacs) players. I like the easyness of the old together with the 3D match emotions of the new. Hopefully they will make the game more accessible by cutting the fluff and boosting the 3D match. I want to see the players play like in real life (animations, movements, applied tactics; and more eye catching, a better field, players models, etc.). I'm on Xbox SS. So, Amiga, PC and then Xbox. Skipped mobile because of the tiny screen, and I need the phone for other, FMC can plays in background.

FMC24 is good now, I criticized it a lot in its early days (especially because of its ostic UI/UX and ugly 3D match engine, back in time), make it excellent.

It will be unfortunate to not have international managment. It works good today, in my opinion. I do manage both club and international teams, given the opportunity. Today, I don't care at all about womens football, but who knows. Social agendas are of no interest for me (I actually hate them, I'm already skipping streaming services, movies and games influenced by gender wars, LGBTQ and woke in them, but I understand that womens football is a different thing, well... hopefully). Maybe it will be a new boulder to manage for SI. International management would have been eventually far easier to re-implement.

The console version is the same as the pc version with slight limitations on how many leagues you're running and possibly how long you can play. But nice gatekeeping.

Edited September 19 by wazzaflow10

[Malicious Penguin]

9 hours ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

The Console version is for the veterans. Championship Manager's Amiga player, here. FM is for new maniacs of data and people without a life, FMC is for those who cares about the meat, we old players and new (non-maniacs) players. I like the easyness of the old together with the 3D match emotions of the new. Hopefully they will make the game more accessible by cutting the fluff and boosting the 3D match. I want to see the players play like in real life (animations, movements, applied tactics; and more eye catching, a better field, players models, etc.). I'm on Xbox SS. So, Amiga, PC and then Xbox. Skipped mobile because of the tiny screen, and I need the phone for other, FMC can plays in background.

FMC24 is good now, I criticized it a lot in its early days (especially because of its ostic UI/UX and ugly 3D match engine, back in time), make it excellent.

It will be unfortunate to not have international managment. It works good today, in my opinion. I do manage both club and international teams, given the opportunity. Today, I don't care at all about womens football, but who knows. Social agendas are of no interest for me (I actually hate them, I'm already skipping streaming services, movies and games influenced by gender wars, LGBTQ and woke in them, but I understand that womens football is a different thing, well... hopefully). Maybe it will be a new boulder to manage for SI. International management would have been eventually far easier to re-implement.

Surprised you still play FM seeing as they introduced gay players a few years ago.

[trevjim]

17 hours ago, samrnpage said:

Analytics and graphs actually make it easier to view and digest the data compared to not having them. It seems like a very strange take on it... I guess looking at lines of numbers is easier for you? 

I wouldn't mind the sheer data dump if it actually meant anything.

 

Download a meta tactic from the forums and you will get all sorts of warnings from your assman about being overrun in midfield or to ease of the tracking etc. the data feedback will suggest your tactic isn't working when it actually is.

 

[trevjim]

1 hour ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

I see the Console version as totally different. It's far easier to navigate, it has far less fluff to consider, it's slender. I tried the demo of FM24 (for PC) but got overwhelmed and uninstalled it almost immediately; it's just not for me, and I suppose many others. I want to be happy while playing, not stressed. FMC is the answer to those criticing the bloated game that FM became. Now let's see how FM25 will be, I hope they will build it on semplicity (not just simpler UI panels, but a simpler game too, like FMC already is)

FM Touch used the be the jam. 

All the good stuff of FM without all the tedious and repetitive bloat slimlined.

It was so much better than the full version.

 

There are countless posts and comments on here about people wanting it back or at least a bloat free version.

 

Cynical me thinks they got rid of it simply because it was outshining their full fat version 

Edited September 19 by trevjim

[zakbrown96]

2 minutes ago, trevjim said:

FM Touch used the be the jam. 

All the good stuff of FM without all the tedious and repetitive bloat slimlined.

It was so much better than the full version.

 

There are countless posts and comments on here about people wanting it back or at least a bloat free version.

 

Cynical me thinks they got rid of it simply because it was outshining their full fat version 

FM24 Touch is still a thing, Via Console, Switch, iPhone and iPad, and I believe you can also play it via Xbox Cloud. 

[trevjim]

Just now, zakbrown96 said:

FM24 Touch is still a thing, Via Console, Switch, iPhone and iPad, and I believe you can also play it via Xbox Cloud. 

Which is a shame because the majority of players are PC and don't want to rely on Xbox cloud.

 

If they ported it to all the consoles and mobiles, they should have kept it on PC. Especially as that's were they would have ported it from

[Novem9]

16 часов назад, Petra90 сказал:

Ah yes, can't wait for when I start playing as Arsenal's U-20 manager I start plotting to kill the main squad manager so I can inherit his job.

Sounds ambitious. The main thing is not to forget to launch FM after that too.

[trevjim]

19 minutes ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

I missed it, unfortunately, so I can't speak for it. To me FMC is the golden egg, SI made so many things right and patched some annoyances through the years.

Though 3D match is key, it's where I spend most of my time and get most happyness, seeing how my new players brings novelty to the team, how it plays the matches and so on. Hopefully it will be a good upgrade in FM(C)25.

Now, worried about the lack of news from the developers.

FM Touch was essentially the same as FMC just newer. They renamed it because.......who knows.

Calling it "Touch" though was a mistake imo. It made it sound like a mobile game

[Lord Rowell]

51 minutes ago, zakbrown96 said:

FM24 Touch is still a thing, Via Console, Switch, iPhone and iPad, and I believe you can also play it via Xbox Cloud. 

I understand that. But I do think its a great shame it was dropped from the PC version. I hope once SI have navigated the move to Unity, that they might consider re-introducing FM Touch for PC players.

[StevehFC]

3 hours ago, Harima83 said:

I wonder if the Advanced Editor will have any issue, or even be removed, in FM25. I'm a bit worried.

I’d be surprised if that’s removed. If it is I don’t see me buying FM25. 

[Minotti]

I think some people here are completely missing the point! Over the last 6-7 years we have had very few changes that ACTUALLY matters, tactical flexibility, better match engine, better transfer dealings from AI clubs etc. Instead we have gotten lots of “manicure” changes that for some reason seem to con people into believing that the “game is so real life” cause it has statistics, “sports scientists” and whatnot when in reality they really offer very very little if anything! 
 

fix the major stuff first and give us better tactical board and flexibility along with match engine we’ve been screaming about and better graphics etc instead of graphs, stats or stupid **** like “now you can hire sports scientists” when none of these actually matters! You should’ve stopped at scouts and medicals. It doesn’t make the game more realistic by adding personnel just to look cool! What’s next, a janitor? Ball boys ??

[Malicious Penguin]

FM Console IS available on PC - I've said it in a few threads now!

Use either Xbox Gamepass or the Microsoft Store.

[trevjim]

Just now, Malicious Penguin said:

FM Console IS available on PC - I've said it in a few threads now!

Use either Xbox Gamepass or the Microsoft Store.

That's the issue. 

 

Why remove it (touch) from PC if we have to go through those means to get it. People would much rather play it on Steam then pay for Gamepass or use Microsoft store

[trevjim]

37 minutes ago, Minotti said:

I think some people here are completely missing the point! Over the last 6-7 years we have had very few changes that ACTUALLY matters, tactical flexibility, better match engine, better transfer dealings from AI clubs etc. Instead we have gotten lots of “manicure” changes that for some reason seem to con people into believing that the “game is so real life” cause it has statistics, “sports scientists” and whatnot when in reality they really offer very very little if anything! 
 

fix the major stuff first and give us better tactical board and flexibility along with match engine we’ve been screaming about and better graphics etc instead of graphs, stats or stupid **** like “now you can hire sports scientists” when none of these actually matters! You should’ve stopped at scouts and medicals. It doesn’t make the game more realistic by adding personnel just to look cool! What’s next, a janitor? Ball boys ??

As I've said before. FM is 95% tactics and transfers. The other 5% has very little effect on the game and majority of it is tedious.

People want improvements to the two core aspects of the game. Tactics (better match engine. No single meta tactic etc.) and Transfers (better AI).

SI for the last 10 years have focused so much on the 5% and missed the ball on core aspects of the game.

I suspect the reason the match engine doesn't ever seem to change a great deal is partly because the Devs that originally built it have moved on, and also they seem hesitant to make any drastic changes for fear of making a mess of it. It's almost like in the last 10 years they have got it from 70% ok to 80%, yet don't know how to improve it any more, so keep making small tweaks instead of rebuilding it from the ground up.

 

AI squad building? I get that this is really hard and complex but there are some huge shortfalls in it that have been around for 20+ years. Eg AI buying players and never playing them, or buying players they don't need.

They are also terrible at developing youth. I'm pretty sure this was touted as a feature in the last version but someone did a deep dive and the changes are pretty much non existent. They will only play players based on current CA. Instead of giving a high PA a game in the cups or last 20 mins etc.

Edited September 19 by trevjim

[Malicious Penguin]

13 minutes ago, trevjim said:

That's the issue. 

 

Why remove it (touch) from PC if we have to go through those means to get it. People would much rather play it on Steam then pay for Gamepass or use Microsoft store

I don't see how using Microsoft Store is an issue if you have a PC.

[Lord Rowell]

23 minutes ago, Malicious Penguin said:

I don't see how using Microsoft Store is an issue if you have a PC.

Does it cost anything extra?
Genuine question - I don't know the answer and until I saw your post I wasn't even aware it was on Microsoft Store.

[trevjim]

23 minutes ago, Malicious Penguin said:

I don't see how using Microsoft Store is an issue if you have a PC.

Both the full version and console version are 59.99 for a start.

FM was around £35 on release and free last week. Why pay almost double that on the Microsoft store? Plus the Microsoft store is hot garbage. Especially with it's updates.

If SI really wanted PC players playing the console version they would have made it available on Steam. 

[trevjim]

Just now, Lord Rowell said:

Does it cost anything extra?
Genuine question - I don't know the answer and until I saw your post I wasn't even aware it was on Microsoft Store.

Yes. It's 59.99.

 

Microsoft store is renowned for being expensive and poor with updates 

[Petra90]

10 hours ago, Malicious Penguin said:

Surprised you still play FM seeing as they introduced gay players a few years ago.

There is this stupid list going around made by the same sort of people; a list about "woke" games. Which, in reality, is any game featuring LGBT content or characters since they hate them. Funny enough, FM was added as "not recommended" just because of LGBT flags in stadiums.

Football manager series :: Woke Content Detector (steamcommunity.com)

[delpiero19]

29 minutes ago, Petra90 said:

There is this stupid list going around made by the same sort of people; a list about "woke" games. Which, in reality, is any game featuring LGBT content or characters since they hate them. Funny enough, FM was added as "not recommended" just because of LGBT flags in stadiums.

Football manager series :: Woke Content Detector (steamcommunity.com)

This is so sad

[kiwityke1983]

5 hours ago, Petra90 said:

There is this stupid list going around made by the same sort of people; a list about "woke" games. Which, in reality, is any game featuring LGBT content or characters since they hate them. Funny enough, FM was added as "not recommended" just because of LGBT flags in stadiums.

Football manager series :: Woke Content Detector (steamcommunity.com)

Ironically this list is a great way to find good games.

[JAwtunes]

9 hours ago, Petra90 said:

There is this stupid list going around made by the same sort of people; a list about "woke" games. Which, in reality, is any game featuring LGBT content or characters since they hate them. Funny enough, FM was added as "not recommended" just because of LGBT flags in stadiums.

Football manager series :: Woke Content Detector (steamcommunity.com)

This is hilarious. Some of the comments in the review column surprised me tbh. 'an NPC talked about climate change', for example. I must have sheltered myself from the culture war messaging because I didn't even know this was so offensive to these people. Is a spherical earth woke too?

[gladman1]

I can see the point though. Why not just have a game which is completely neutral? I noticed that the people aroiund the centre circle in champions league games take the knee. Politics should be left out of games.  We are getting so much of this thrown around in normal life theres no harm in finding something which is just completely fun only.  Or at the very least have tghe ability in the options to turn off what you dont want. That way the game would be truly inclusive of peoples beliefs.

[spursfan]

21 minutes ago, gladman1 said:

I can see the point though. Why not just have a game which is completely neutral? I noticed that the people aroiund the centre circle in champions league games take the knee. Politics should be left out of games.  We are getting so much of this thrown around in normal life theres no harm in finding something which is just completely fun only.  Or at the very least have tghe ability in the options to turn off what you dont want. That way the game would be truly inclusive of peoples beliefs.

Are you saying that taking the knee is in the game during match day in FM? 

[forameuss]

38 minutes ago, gladman1 said:

I can see the point though. Why not just have a game which is completely neutral? I noticed that the people aroiund the centre circle in champions league games take the knee. Politics should be left out of games.  We are getting so much of this thrown around in normal life theres no harm in finding something which is just completely fun only.  Or at the very least have tghe ability in the options to turn off what you dont want. That way the game would be truly inclusive of peoples beliefs.

If someone is getting a negative reaction to causes like that then "their beliefs" aren't deserving of being included.

Just so much to unpack here, but I don't hate myself enough to want to go into it, and I doubt you'd listen anyway.  But I'll stick with your belief that you should be able to turn off things you don't like because they somehow offend you.  No.  People like you shouldn't be allowed to just wallow in whatever prejudices you have.  You can be shown whatever it is, and if you're really so fragile that you somehow can't handle basic human rights, then you can go and do something else.  The reason it's there is specifically because of people like you, and until those "beliefs" die out, it'll always be needed.  

Edited September 20 by forameuss

[Craigus89]

Can anyone clarify exactly what the "chalkboard" is? 

Quote

With the data used in football continually evolving and developing, we’ve also thought hard about how that is displayed in FM. Most of the existing data metrics and visualisations will still be in FM25 and we’re already working on further visualisations that will be added in future editions of FM. However, the Chalkboard, which was additional individual and team data accessed via player profiles, has been removed. With the introduction of the Data Hub in recent years, which is much better at presenting analytical data to you, the Chalkboard became superfluous and its usage dropped from 10% to below 1%. 

It's not clear from this description.

[Hansaplast]

On 19/09/2024 at 07:20, Tetsuro P12 said:

The Console version is for the veterans. Championship Manager's Amiga player, here. FM is for new maniacs of data and people without a life, FMC is for those who cares about the meat, we old players and new (non-maniacs) players....

I'm rather happy that I have almost no life while using the little that's left for gender questions.

[wazzaflow10]

8 hours ago, gladman1 said:

Politics should be left out of games.  We are getting so much of this thrown around in normal life theres no harm in finding something which is just completely fun only.

Being inclusive of others is political? I thought that was just being a good, kind person. I must have missed the ad board saying f the tories in my game. You sure you bought FM and not political simulator 2024?

Edited September 20 by wazzaflow10

[spursfan]

4 hours ago, Craigus89 said:

Can anyone clarify exactly what the "chalkboard" is? 

It's not clear from this description.

Took me the best part of 10 minutes to navigate, but I believe it's this -- anyways might be good to have it removed considering I had taken that long to find it ;-)

 

 

[gladman1]

6 hours ago, spursfan said:

Are you saying that taking the knee is in the game during match day in FM? 

Yes as the teams walk out the people holding the uefa logo in the centre circle are taking the knee.

[gladman1]

6 hours ago, forameuss said:

If someone is getting a negative reaction to causes like that then "their beliefs" aren't deserving of being included.

Just so much to unpack here, but I don't hate myself enough to want to go into it, and I doubt you'd listen anyway.  But I'll stick with your belief that you should be able to turn off things you don't like because they somehow offend you.  No.  People like you shouldn't be allowed to just wallow in whatever prejudices you have.  You can be shown whatever it is, and if you're really so fragile that you somehow can't handle basic human rights, then you can go and do something else.  The reason it's there is specifically because of people like you, and until those "beliefs" die out, it'll always be needed.  

I should not have to be forced into any political stance fullstop. At the end of the day it was a created movement used for government advantage, These government people dont give a t@ss about people or what they are going through. They just want votes.

[gladman1]

2 hours ago, wazzaflow10 said:

Being inclusive of others is political? I thought that was just being a good, kind person. I must have missed the ad board saying f the torries in my game. You sure you bought FM and not political simulator 2024?

Theres nothing wrong with inclusive whatsoever. The problem is politicians creating situations and distractions for their own gain. They dont care about anyone who doesnt vote for them. Or even the ones who do. look at the history. 

[wazzaflow10]

2 minutes ago, gladman1 said:

Theres nothing wrong with inclusive whatsoever.

Then why do you care about kneeling?

 

[XaW]

10 minutes ago, gladman1 said:

I should not have to be forced into any political stance fullstop. At the end of the day it was a created movement used for government advantage, These government people dont give a t@ss about people or what they are going through. They just want votes.

The problem here is where do you draw the line then? The national anthem is political, flags (national and otherwise) are political, player gestures are political, sports are political for what they do, bring people together. The question is just where one draw the line. And personally, I think inclusion are far better than exclusion in general.

If you don't want these things in the game, you must hate the Middle Eastern ownerships of clubs? Should that be removed from the game because of sportswashing? If a player gesture you can skip annoy you to the extent that you get fired up about it in here, then those REALLY political things that really impact both the game and real life must really bug you? So why aren't you demonstrating about that? Is it because the things you complain about are not because they are political, but rather because they go against YOUR views?

The only thing you've argued against in terms of political views in the game, as far as I can see, is players taking a knee. Why does this specific thing bother you so much, when there are so much other political gestures and influences in both football and the game?

[forameuss]

Not enough people picking up on the whole root of this being players taking the knee in FM, which as far as I'm aware doesn't happen. Really something to invent that just so you can get seething about it.

27 minutes ago, gladman1 said:

I should not have to be forced into any political stance fullstop. At the end of the day it was a created movement used for government advantage, These government people dont give a t@ss about people or what they are going through. They just want votes.

How are you being "forced into a political stance" because of...well, anything relating to FM? Serious question. Seems like you've already got a pretty set stance to be honest.

[Spedding]

1 hour ago, gladman1 said:

Yes as the teams walk out the people holding the uefa logo in the centre circle are taking the knee.

lol thats not what there doing there holding the logo in place . so anyone kneeling is now a political statement what about the tennis ball boys are they a polital message get a grip.

[Carmi88]

players taking the knee would be a great addition, get that on the wish list. Rainbow laces and captains armband as well please  

[spursfan]

5 hours ago, Spedding said:

lol thats not what there doing there holding the logo in place . so anyone kneeling is now a political statement what about the tennis ball boys are they a polital message get a grip.

Love it: that's a definitely legitimate thing to be kneeling for.

I don't get to see these cuz I use 2D with 3D highlights.

Long live 2D (not a political statement) ;-)

 

[Lord Rowell]

16 hours ago, gladman1 said:

Yes as the teams walk out the people holding the uefa logo in the centre circle are taking the knee.

So the players aren't taking the knee are they?

While you didn't directly say this, you implied it as general "taking the knee" in FM, which we'd assume would refer to players taking the knee, as that's what we think of.

So basically you're misleading people and spreading disinformation.

Now... all that said, aside from the fact that I fully support the inclusive agenda and when people call me "woke" I take it as a compliment ... given that FM is a football simulator, it really should have players taking the knee, when that happens IRL contexts.

I'm off to the feature requests forum now

Edited September 21 by Lord Rowell
changed "thread" to "forum"

[forameuss]

4 hours ago, DavutOzkan said:

God, I would take the complaining over women's football and weights over this nonsense. How did this subject even come up? 

Mods, do your job, please. 

Nah, don't let them slink away into the shadows with their ghoulish views, let them exhibit just how backwards they are so they can be roundly mocked for it.  They'll probably just cry censorship otherwise.

And in the meantime, let's find a list of all the issues that these people find so abhorrent, and get every single one of them into FM.  Doesn't matter if they make sense or not, it'll just be fun watching the shade of puce they go when they hear about it.  And then maybe they'll either just crawl away into their little hovels, or they take a step back and wonder whether it's worth being so objectionable.

[XaW]

Alright, any more talk about "woke" will result in thread ban and/or infractions. This is the only and final warning. Anyone disagreeing with this can PM me.

[XV20]

can we talk about the AI squad building tho, i feel it's a more key topic to discuss..

[trevjim]

2 hours ago, XV20 said:

can we talk about the AI squad building tho, i feel it's a more key topic to discuss..

Hopefully it's a key feature for 25. It's the most asked for feature for the last 15+ years 

[XaW]

5 hours ago, XV20 said:

can we talk about the AI squad building tho, i feel it's a more key topic to discuss..

I agree, it was better in FM24 than before, but there is still a way to go before I'm happy with it. Let's hope for more info soon, as this, the UI, and the match engine are the things I'm most looking forward to.