FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[Micho21]

hace 13 minutos, Novem9 dijo:

Why? This community welcomes releases with minimal improvements. Completes missing content. Work for free that should actually be done by QA department. Fills databases. Makes league updates, or improves everything it can reach.

This community self-destructive only if love this game too much. Because that wasted time could have been spent on something more... complete.

With a few exceptions, the FM community is pretty happy with two or three screenshots, a few descriptions of the new features and, of course, a beta confirmation.

We have received removed features, a fake roadmap and barely three screenshots.. And there are even people who have seen the good side of it.

Didn't see the "self-destructive community in any place", if this is destructive I will recommend not going outside your home (and also disconnecting your internet). We are disappointed, but I will assure that the majority of us will be more enthusiastic if some information are released.

[gunner86]

3 hours ago, Lempicka said:

I think we need a 'Will there be a Beta... Speculation Thread'

It does seem odd they haven’t lead with that

[Sir_Liam]

The communication on FM2025 from SI has been a disaster and today's announcements have contributed further to that.  The Roadmap suggests to me that TBA means they don't know when it'll be ready and are trying to buy time.  Miles's pathetic explanation of it on social media just adds to this feeling.  And as an aside Miles's statements on X should be on the Football Manager site, lots of people don't use X.

The order of the roadmap is also bizarre.  Surely the UI should be first as any other feature reveal is surely going to reveal parts of the UI?

It's also interesting that on Steam it says "This game plans to unlock in approximately 8 weeks".  That suggests to me that the release date isn't final and it could be moved back which again looks like they're buying themselves time.

Everything is so vague and completely lacking in transparency, the opposite of the direction I thought SI were going in when they made that initial announcement about the Unity engine.

I'm still playing FM23 as I didn't like FM24 so I've been looking forward to a new FM game, but after feeling badly let down by FM24 I now have no optimism for FM25 and am seriously questioning whether to get the game.  And I'm saying that as someone who has every version going back to CM4.

And that "trailer" is awful and tells us absolutely nothing, again giving the impression that things aren't ready.

[FlorianAlbert9]

1 ora fa, joaocm ha scritto:

Our community must be one of the most self-destructive I have ever seen.

I really don't understand how the game still exists  

This community is the only reason this game still exists with no competitors at all. 
 

let be clear: what make this game great are playable league and database. 
 

and the latter was only thanks to community/research (with no cost for SI).  
and that the reason competitors fails. 
 

for me the last 20 years there are barely 5 interesting new features: the board/fan section, the undefinited value in the attributes in not known players (eg. passing 12-16), the 3d, the pre-game editor and the passage from regens to newgen. 
 

And some are still a mess like the 3D that barely resemble football. 
(And in fact i swap to 2d ‘cause 3d is an agony to watch). 
 

What make me sad (for the game) is that every year most feature were half backed or simply non-existent. Like i stopped to count how many times it was said AI/market was improved but we have no idea where.  
 

Said that i’m not worried about this year marketing  

once news will go out, if good, they will erase the today shadows  

 

but at same time i thing what i want for this game will never come so probabily i will be disappointed ever 

 

 

[lied90]

What I got from the trailer is that now that I'm having my first kid, I'll have to switch to console.

[delpiero19]

2 hours ago, delpiero19 said:

The ad looks like it’s been taken out of a satirical TV show about political correctness.

 The emptiness it gives you feels as if it was the goal of it.

On a second watch, I am starting to get a feeling that WE are the problem?

This almost AI-generated-looking trailer can only make me think there is a reason for it.

Maybe we are too old and being left behind? perhaps this is what SI wants going forward? getting a younger generation attracted to the game.

 

 

[JonnyPT]

I thought that it would be possible to see somehow the weight, even as just "stocky" or "thin"... But not even that apparently... And this is the last of my worries after today, but it still is an interesting point, the other points have already been talked by other people. Absolute disgrace.

[feltusen]

"See footballmanager.com for further Roadmap details "

 

There is no further details on the site???

[abcdf]

This whole situations’s just comical man. And least we can have a good laugh while we see our favourite game in shambles. 
 

The announcement of the announcement was just some next level stuff. Who’s in charge in this company 🤣

[abcdf]

8 minuti fa, JonnyPT ha scritto:

I thought that it would be possible to see somehow the weight, even as just "stocky" or "thin"... But not even that apparently... And this is the last of my worries after today, but it still is an interesting point, the other points have already been talked by other people. Absolute disgrace.

Think about it. With the disastrous state of this game, they thought that hiding the weight was a priority 🤣 The matrix is stronger than I thought man

Edited 8 hours ago by abcdf

[renato.]

24 minutes ago, delpiero19 said:

On a second watch, I am starting to get a feeling that WE are the problem?

This almost AI-generated-looking trailer can only make me think there is a reason for it.

Maybe we are too old and being left behind? perhaps this is what SI wants going forward? getting a younger generation attracted to the game.

It's just one very badly done ad for a game.

[JamieTC13]

7 hours ago, psoares said:

oh oh. oh no no no. what is this??? oh god let it be an out of date april fools joke.

New era LOL, it looks no different to previous versions. it's a new skin and nothing more.

Im very disappointed at this stage but it might get better, but there are still even symbols from 2020 and so on i thought we was getting a whole new looking game.

[jimbo22]

50 minutes ago, Sir_Liam said:

 

It's also interesting that on Steam it says "This game plans to unlock in approximately 8 weeks".  That suggests to me that the release date isn't final and it could be moved back which again looks like they're buying themselves time.

 

Not sure this is so much of an issue. Until the game is "gold" anything can happen. Games few months out tend to have approximate release dates. Even if its a set date its still a place holder until the game is ready to go.

[DavutOzkan]

1 hour ago, Sir_Liam said:

The communication on FM2025 from SI has been a disaster and today's announcements have contributed further to that.  The Roadmap suggests to me that TBA means they don't know when it'll be ready and are trying to buy time.  Miles's pathetic explanation of it on social media just adds to this feeling.  And as an aside Miles's statements on X should be on the Football Manager site, lots of people don't use X.

The order of the roadmap is also bizarre.  Surely the UI should be first as any other feature reveal is surely going to reveal parts of the UI?

It's also interesting that on Steam it says "This game plans to unlock in approximately 8 weeks".  That suggests to me that the release date isn't final and it could be moved back which again looks like they're buying themselves time.

Everything is so vague and completely lacking in transparency, the opposite of the direction I thought SI were going in when they made that initial announcement about the Unity engine.

I'm still playing FM23 as I didn't like FM24 so I've been looking forward to a new FM game, but after feeling badly let down by FM24 I now have no optimism for FM25 and am seriously questioning whether to get the game.  And I'm saying that as someone who has every version going back to CM4.

And that "trailer" is awful and tells us absolutely nothing, again giving the impression that things aren't ready.

This is just a Steam thing. Civ VII (with far more trustworthy devs/marketing) says "will unlock in approximately four months". 

Edited 7 hours ago by DavutOzkan

[超级足球狂热迷]

We need to watch engine videos, do we just want to use one image for everyone to pre order?
We don't need to play women's football, we need to play for the national team

[超级足球狂热迷]

5 分钟前, DavutOzkan说:

这只是 Steam 的事情。 《文明 VII》（拥有更值得信赖的开发者/营销人员）表示“将在大约四个月内解锁”。 

Si said two years ago that he was developing a new engine,
It was also mentioned that a new engine was already planned to be launched in 2020
How dare you not even release a single image for such a long time?

[delpiero19]

EDITED

Edited 6 hours ago by delpiero19

[Marko1989]

Just don't pre-order, nobody deserves your hard-earned money before you see some reviews and released product.

After they went 10 years backward with how the 2D match engine looks, and after they destroyed lighting in 3D ME, I never paid the full price and always waited for a discount because I simply thought they don't deserve that amount of money.

[abcdf]

But in all honesty, I really do not understand. Like, they must know that a super narrow percentage of their fanbase cared about women’s football. They must have conducted some sort of market analysis beforehand. And yet, they still deployed the majority of their resources on a feature that is considered insignificant by most. Now, either someone is lobbying heavily behind the scenes for political purposes, or this is just incomprensibile.

[Federico]

25 minuti fa, delpiero19 ha scritto:

On top of all, the price seems much higher than previous years?

Much higher? You serious?

Without being discounted, on Steam it costs the same as FM24. I mean coming here with the solely intention to fire up the thread with false informations... does it help your cause?

[Federico]

7 minuti fa, Marko1989 ha scritto:

Just don't pre-order, nobody deserves your hard-earned money before you see some reviews and released product.

So when you go to the stadium to watch your club, you pay the ticket once you get out from the stands, right?

[nick1408]

1 hour ago, delpiero19 said:

On a second watch, I am starting to get a feeling that WE are the problem?

This almost AI-generated-looking trailer can only make me think there is a reason for it.

Maybe we are too old and being left behind? perhaps this is what SI wants going forward? getting a younger generation attracted to the game.

 

 

No, it’s the children that are wrong

[delpiero19]

5 minutes ago, Federico said:

Much higher? You serious?

Without being discounted, on Steam it costs the same as FM24. I mean coming here with the solely intention to fire up the thread with false informations... does it help your cause?

Calm your farm mate, there was a question mark at the end of my question.

I will edit the original because I was wrong, but there was no malice intention.

[Federico]

13 minuti fa, abcdf ha scritto:

But in all honesty, I really do not understand. Like, they must know that a super narrow percentage of their fanbase cared about women’s football. They must have conducted some sort of market analysis beforehand. And yet, they still deployed the majority of their resources on a feature that is considered insignificant by most. Now, either someone is lobbying heavily behind the scenes for political purposes, or this is just incomprensibile.

Have you ever thought that they don't care what people thinks of womens football, but that they've been chosing to include it in the game so that - ethically speaking - probably the same people will care in the future?

Secondly: are you inside the company to state that "they still deployed the majority of their resources on a feature that is considered insignificant by most"?

And by most you mean you and another couple of bigots in this forum?

Mind, I don't think I'm going to play women football, nonetheless I think this step was absolutely necessary. The problem is not that it's included in FM or not. The problem is that people talks about it, which is far more bigot.

Edited 6 hours ago by Federico

[santy001]

8 minutes ago, abcdf said:

But in all honesty, I really do not understand. Like, they must know that a super narrow percentage of their fanbase cared about women’s football. They must have conducted some sort of market analysis beforehand. And yet, they still deployed the majority of their resources on a feature that is considered insignificant by most. Now, either someone is lobbying heavily behind the scenes for political purposes, or this is just incomprensibile.

Genuine nonsense. Staff were recruited to work on that side specifically. Job listings on the SI site for that some years back were probably in part the reason it was announced as early as it was, because you can't be hiring staff for head research roles and such with that knowledge as a requirement without giving it away. 

[Federico]

1 minuto fa, delpiero19 ha scritto:

Calm your farm mate, there was a question mark at the end of my question.

I will edit the original because I was wrong, but there was no malice intention.

Question mark or not, you should improve your wording as to me the provocation seemed pretty clear in your post.  My apologies, anyway.

[delpiero19]

The problem is not women football.

The problem seems like all the rest.

[abcdf]

20 minuti fa, Federico ha scritto:

Have you ever thought that they don't care what people thinks of womens football, but that they've been chosing the include it in the game so that - ethically speaking - probably the same people will care in the future?

Secondly: are you inside the company to state that "they still deployed the majority of their resources on a feature that is considered insignificant by most"?

And by most you mean you and another couple of bigots in this forum?

Mind, I don't think I'm going to play women football, nonetheless I think this step was absolutely necessary. The problem is not that it's included in FM or not. The problem is that people talks about it, which is far more bigot.

Ethically speaking?? This is a videogame company, not the labourist party. And I cannot see what would be “unethical” about not including women football. At the moment, it is a very low level sport with little competition and even less fans. Given this logic, it would be unethical not to have “cricket manager 25” because cricket fans would somehow feel excluded?

To answer to you second point, it does not take a genius to understand that women’s football is going to be the number 1 new feature of the game, they tried to advertise it in any way possible and it’s the first point of their “timeline”. So, it is safe to assume that it took the majority of the resources as far as new features are concerned.

To conclude, I am not a bigot by any means. I just do not see or understand how including women’s football into a game is going to be a groundbreaking step forward for anything societally relevant. It is just a game at the end of the day. But it is definitely going to take away resources from other areas of the game that really needed improvements and most fans consider critical.
 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by abcdf

[Federico]

12 minuti fa, abcdf ha scritto:

Ethically speaking?? This is a videogame company, not the labourist party. And I cannot see what would be “unethical” about not including women football. At the moment, it is a very low level sport with little competition and even less fans. Given this logic, it would be unethical not to have “cricket manager 25” because cricket fans would somehow feel excluded?

To answer to you second point, it does not take a genius to understand that women’s football is going to be the number 1 new feature of the game, they tried to advertise it in any way possible and it’s the first point of their “timeline”. So, it is safe to assume that it took the majority of the resources as far as new features are concerned.

To conclude, I am not a bigot by any means. I just do not see or understand how including women’s football into a game is going to be a groundbreaking step forward for anything societally relevant. It is just a game at the end of the day. 
 

And it looks like it’s gonna be a rough one this year.

 

Don't turn this into a political debate. There's nothing politic here. Why people are so arsed about women football? Do they fear that their favourite game will be affected by this unspeakable waste of resources? Waste of resources that is not a waste since the company doubled its numbers? What's scaring you to death about women football? If you don't like it, just don't play it eh?

I just see a lot of people dropping their masks.

Edited 6 hours ago by Federico

[delpiero19]

11 minutes ago, abcdf said:

Ethically speaking?? This is a videogame company, not the labourist party. And I cannot see what would be “unethical” about not including women football. At the moment, it is a very low level sport with little competition and even less fans. Given this logic, it would be unethical not to have “cricket manager 25” because cricket fans would somehow feel excluded?

To answer to you second point, it does not take a genius to understand that women’s football is going to be the number 1 new feature of the game, they tried to advertise it in any way possible and it’s the first point of their “timeline”. So, it is safe to assume that it took the majority of the resources as far as new features are concerned.

To conclude, I am not a bigot by any means. I just do not see or understand how including women’s football into a game is going to be a groundbreaking step forward for anything societally relevant. It is just a game at the end of the day. 
 

And it looks like it’s gonna be a rough one this year.

 

The second league in Belarus is a top level sport? How many people play that league? Who cares? 

 

The problem with the reveal of this year's game is not the addition of women's football. I couldn't care less about that.

[abcdf]

1 minuto fa, delpiero19 ha scritto:

The second league in Belarus is a top level sport? How many people play that league? Who cares? 

 

The problem with the reveal of this year's game is not the addition of women's football. I couldn't care less about that.

Adding the second league in belarus is just a matter of expanding the player database, it does not take a complete revamp of the match engine because it is the SAME sport. Women’s football is not. Cmon guys, we’re all adults here, let’s try not to by play dumb

[delpiero19]

4 minutes ago, abcdf said:

Adding the second league in belarus is just a matter of expanding the player database, it does not take a complete revamp of the match engine because it is the SAME sport. Women’s football is not. Cmon guys, we’re all adults here, let’s try not to by play dumb

I give up.

 

[abcdf]

5 minuti fa, Federico ha scritto:

Don't turn this into a political debate. There's nothing politic here. Why people are so arsed about women football? Do they fear that their favourite game will be affected by this unspeakable waste of resources? Waste of resources that is not a waste since the company doubled its numbers? What's scaring you to death about women football? If you don't like it, just don't play it eh?

I just see a lot of people dropping their masks.

I am not afraid of anything, I am just observing this disastrous lead up to the game and trying to analyze the causes of this imminent disaster. You’re just being oblivious to what is in front of your own eyes. This is probably the worst game announcement in gaming history, and you’re here telling me that a bit more resources available for core areas of the game wouldn’t have been useful?? 🤣

You’re the one getting political here, I’m just being pragmatic. 

[abcdf]

7 minuti fa, delpiero19 ha scritto:

I give up.

 

Yeah maybe it’s better because you did not make a single logically valid point in the whole discussion

Edited 6 hours ago by abcdf

[spursfan]

5 hours ago, Novem9 said:

I really hope that someone else didn't notice this right away.  That it's not a volleyball, or a weird brain symbol, or a walnut. That it's crumpled letters FM. Like a ball, a concept, all that stuff.

I was so shocked by the interface that I just didn't pay enough attention, I guess. Now I see F3 in graffiti style. No longer walnut, but not yet FM  

Wow thanks I see the FM now, I genuinely had my first impression as volleyball 

[spursfan]

4 hours ago, grade said:

The release date... Can we say it is a release date? The "from" word next to the release date doesn't sound very promising.

From, meaning main launch on 26 November, other platform launches follow after that date ;-)  

[feltusen]

Will pre-order give you early access?

[Novem9]

2 часа назад, Federico сказал:

Don't turn this into a political debate

A few hours ago you gave advice in this thread to change the government

[Wong77]

In hindsight, it was very stupid and childish of SI to announce last year that fm25 was going to use a new engine, it put them in a very passive position. If you're going to do something, you should wait until it's actually done before you announce it to the public, that way the players will be surprised, not disappointed after a long wait like we are now.

[jdubsnz]

I genuinely don’t understand those that are upset about the women’s game being a big announcement. It is big - I went to the women’s World Cup in New Zealand and the crowds were massive, men, women, boys and girls all getting into it. The WSL is breaking attendance records all the time (over 60,000 attending) - it’s a part of the game that is gathering momentum and SI have made the right call to reflect what is going on in the real football world. It’s an opportunity to bring more girls and women into the FM family and that’s a good thing. As an example, my 9 year old daughter is getting into gaming and she can now have a go at trying to get Arsenal to win the WSL. It’s an opportunity for me to do a save with a women’s team to learn more about the players and leagues. That’s a cool thing and exciting for a lot of people. It might not push everyone’s button but it will for a lot of people. Stating that most people aren’t bothered is a pretty blinkered outlook

[waraka14]

Prioritizing women’s football in a crucial year when you’re moving to next gen? Women’s football over international football which existed in the game since forever? And then caring so much about PC culture that you remove weight from the game because you don’t want to hurt feelings? Product managers should make decisions based on what’s best for the product and the user base, not their egos. 

[andu1]

2 hours ago, feltusen said:

Will pre-order give you early access?

Apparently there is no early access this year. Its not mentioned anywhere there will be one

[Bahoi]

4 hours ago, Federico said:

So when you go to the stadium to watch your club, you pay the ticket once you get out from the stands, right?

What argument is this? He said no preorders, not paying for the game after 100 hours of playtime. 

[BJG123]

When I was 9 years old, I got hold of a copy of Championship Manager 97/98 from my uncle, who hated it because he didn't realise you couldn't control the players. 

Ever since then I've been hooked, and I've bought Championship Manager 3 and onwards on release day, or on Beta day since that's been a thing.  What's that? 26 editions?

This will be the first I don't. I hope it's still something I buy, but my laptop can barely cope with 24, and I was excited to use 25 as an excuse to upgrade.  Now I think I'll save that money until we've determined how good or bad this game is going to be.  SI are giving me zero faith they'll have a functional game.

[BJG123]

6 hours ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

This community is the only reason this game still exists with no competitors at all. 
 

let be clear: what make this game great are playable league and database. 

for me the last 20 years there are barely 5 interesting new features: the board/fan section, the undefinited value in the attributes in not known players (eg. passing 12-16), the 3d, the pre-game editor and the passage from regens to newgen. 

Wow - hadn't ever thought about it like this, but 100% spot on.  If I think about what I enjoy now vs 27 years ago when I first played the game, it's the depth of the database, coupled with those features you've mentioned.  Only thing I'd add is I enjoy International Management, even if it's very limited (and now that's gone) 

[trevjim]

5 hours ago, abcdf said:

But in all honesty, I really do not understand. Like, they must know that a super narrow percentage of their fanbase cared about women’s football. They must have conducted some sort of market analysis beforehand. And yet, they still deployed the majority of their resources on a feature that is considered insignificant by most. Now, either someone is lobbying heavily behind the scenes for political purposes, or this is just incomprensibile.

I don't mind the addition of women's football. You are right that the percentage of the player base is miniscule, however it's new female fans they will be after. Which is absolutely fine.

For me through, the timing is all wrong. They should have added it last year when there were no real features added, instead of trying to shoehorn it into probably the biggest changes in over a decade. They bit of more than they can chew. If women's football wasn't ready last year (I don't know why not, it's essentially just a database with small tweaks, it shouldn't take too long to create) then they should have added it into FM 26 instead.

The weight fiasco was ridiculous too. If they are concerned about blowback about women's weights, then just disable it for the women's profiles. Pretty simple. No need to remove it from the mens too

It was also pretty damming that the said weight has no impact on the game. Makes you wonder what other factors have little to no impact on the game 

Edited 1 hour ago by trevjim

[Kickballz]

26 minutes ago, trevjim said:

I don't mind the addition of women's football. You are right that the percentage of the player base is miniscule, however it's new female fans they will be after. Which is absolutely fine.

For me through, the timing is all wrong. They should have added it last year when there were no real features added, instead of trying to shoehorn it into probably the biggest changes in over a decade. They bit of more than they can chew. If women's football wasn't ready last year (I don't know why not, it's essentially just a database with small tweaks, it shouldn't take too long to create) then they should have added it into FM 26 instead.

The weight fiasco was ridiculous too. If they are concerned about blowback about women's weights, then just disable it for the women's profiles. Pretty simple. No need to remove it from the mens too

It was also pretty damming that the said weight has no impact on the game. Makes you wonder what other factors have little to no impact on the game 

I don't have a problem with the inclusion of women's football either but there is so little communication about the rest of the game that people are questioning everything.

You have screenshots of Fran Kirby being a world beater and people are asking can we sign her for the men's team? It is just down to catastrophic communication by SI. All we have is some trailer that looks so pointless that no wonder people are questioning what the hell SI are playing at.

Edited 1 hour ago by Kickballz

[trevjim]

19 minutes ago, Kickballz said:

I don't have a problem with the inclusion of women's football either but there is so little communication about the rest of the game that people are questioning everything.

You have screenshots of Fran Kirby being a world beater and people are asking can we sign her for the men's team? It is just down to catastrophic communication by SI. All we have is some trailer that looks so pointless that no wonder people are questioning what the hell SI are playing at.

Someone on here pointed out that all the player profiles we have seen are mock ups. Eg have the wrong positions and heights etc. They are just a mishmash of bits stitched together, so they are filled with inaccuracies and it's why the UI looks so odd. Its not great that they don't even have player profiles fixed yet so close to release 

Edited 1 hour ago by trevjim

[albertluque]

What are those star ratings on the player profiles?! UI looks so basic and boring. 

Could be the first year where all the skin makers could make an absolute killing if they charged!

Please don't get any ideas. 

 

 

[kiwityke1983]

9 hours ago, jimbo22 said:

Spent some of this afternoon watching some content creator videos on the "news" today. Not good folks, the positivity is almost non existent.

What is there to be positive about...we genuinely know more about Miles and his holiday plans he cancelled than the game SI are asking £40 for!

Miles who is famously ban happy is putting out key info on a site a lot of people including me refuse to use on his personal account.

The only screenshots we've seen are shoddy Photoshop jobs by the looks and the trailer could be advertising literally anything it has that little to do with the game.

The marketing strategy is so bad so far it might well become a textbook example of what not to do.

Oh and we've lost the beta (seemingly) which means I'm almost certainly not pre-ordering anymore until I actually see this thing running.

I've gone from absolutely hyped to worried to I'll probably pre-order still, to I can wait for a steam sale.

The entire thing is a disaster so far.