FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[vonreichsm]

Unbeleavable. No new FM in the year 2024!!! They know since years that they want to change the engine. Why did´nt they do there work years ago so that they could release a good fm?

[stevie_G_32201]

25 minutes ago, maxjam said:

What and absolute mess... Features removed, lacklustre roadmap, open pre-orders then postponed until the season is virtually over.

Releasing FM25 in March means we'll be getting FM26 a few months later - If SI are scrambling to get FM25 ready for a March release other than an updated database what new features should we expect in FM26?

At this point and talking purely from a gameplay perspective surely the sensible approach would be to cancel FM25, get the game actually ready for release and use the extra time to put back in the features that had been previously removed. 

Financially speaking, I personally think they will also take a loss releasing 2 games in 2026, would completely skipping FM25 be that much more of a hit?

Personally as its a new engine, I would release FM25 in March as a free beta, use the extra time to gather feedback, fix any issues and build hype for FM26.

agree with this completely. but I've also seen a lot of people a lot more toxic and that is where I would draw the line. the game devs are people too, just because you don't agree with them doesn't give you the right to say those things or treat them that way.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

What a difference a few weeks makes.

Quote

 

"Welcome to the Roadmap. Here's how it's going to work. A thread.

After careful consideration, Sports Interactive have made the tough decision to further delay the release of Football Manager 25."

 

I find it interesting after the past week how certain names have been left off of todays announcement.

Quote

"Timelines were already tight and, as rightly pointed out by many of your recent comments, we were simply rushing too much and in danger of compromising our usual standards. This has put an enormous amount of pressure on everyone working across the studio, who are all passionately committed to delivering the best game possible."

The game was ALREADY COMPROMISED by the removal of features such as international management. Ridiculous doublespeak. It has nothing to do with commentary from fans, when we have people in here repeatedly getting spoken down to about warning about the state of things. Now, as expected, this has come to pass.

Quote

"Something you noted as missing from our announcement on 30 September was mention of Advanced Access on PC/Mac. We can confirm Advanced Access will be available ahead of the new release date and, when we are confident on how long that period will be, we will update you at the first opportunity. The new gameplay reveal will also now move to the end of January 2025."

To be clear, they never planned to release any gameplay over the course of the roadmap and never planned to have beta for the late November release date.

This was a money dash to get people to preorder and ensure a cash flow from people who are going to stick with the preorder. The content creators all knew it was a joke.

This is not the same as CM3 and CM4, where preorders were a far different beast from the digital storefronts we have today.

I refer to my original post in this thread:

Quote

This ultimately comes down to poor management and decision making which has been pervasive for years in terms of certain editions of the game and is now clearly evident with such a massive migration and change.

I repeat this and also state that the front line staff developing the game are not to blame.

[afailed10]

Bin FM25. Give a free DB update for FM24 and release FM26 early September. 

Edited Thursday at 15:44 by afailed10

[Marko1989]

On 01/10/2024 at 01:57, Marko1989 said:

Just don't pre-order, nobody deserves your hard-earned money before you see some reviews and released product.
 

After this delay, I will quote myself and my comment from 10 days ago.

When it comes out in March, since it is a sports game, it should not cost more than €20 with such a late release.

Edited Thursday at 15:47 by Marko1989

[janrzm]

Well, I didn’t expect to be waking up to this news…..and yet somehow I did.

It all felt off, disjointed, one misstep after another and ultimately nothing to show us. 

It’s a huge delay in the scheme of things and I can’t help but think the reality of the situation.must have been obvious for some time. The big learning here is be honest with yourself and be honest with your customers. 

The next concern is delivering two games in the same calendar year and the obvious challenges of that. Please do not leave it until March or later to tell us there’s an issue with FM26…..look ahead, make some tough decisions and be upfront and realistic with this loyal customer base.

Im disappointed of course but my overriding reaction is probably relief because I always want this game to be the best version of itself.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 15:44 by janrzm

[jcafcwbb]

If the game is not ready it is not ready. We will patiently wait.

Would like to see a database update made available for FM24 

[KillYourIdols]

This is the first time that SI have not released a game yearly since 1992 isn't? Wow.

[sufcdan]

One thing I can't help but agree with is taking pre orders when the game was obviously clearly hanging on the line. I find that inexcusable to be frank, and the ''unlockable'' dates of the roadmap.

[StevehFC]

4 minutes ago, albertocerdeira.4 said:

Pls send me too

Have a look at sortitoutsi mate. They have a data update. 

[SlobaFMB]

My current mood 

[milenec11]

I mean is not postponed for days or one month but for 4 months a quarter of a year that means that you can not evolute what you promise and you beginning from scratch 

WHAT A FAIL 
somehow they must apologize and add the features that remove and selling in better price as apology 

[DMC-12]

8 minutes ago, milenec11 said:

If I was Miles Jacobson ….

Two are the solutions 

A) you cancel the plans for new UI for 25 and release a FM 25 similar to FM 24 with better price 

OR 

B) I am canceling the plans for releasing a FM 25 and going directly to a new with FM 26 

what the point to release a game when the most of 24/25 leagues are gone 

postponed until June 25 and release your new era as FM 26 

do not make annoying things just to make something.

Before all that - get the holiday application back in. He's got leave that needs used before the end of the year as he cancelled all his trips! 

[Nickg07]

Huge huge mistake.

 

Why did you guys not plan to release fm25 with the new engine AND THEN add in womens in the next installment?

 

Which do you think would equal more sales? Launch in March with women's leagues or launch in September with international management and a working game?

 

Who do you think your core audience is?

 

Si you have cost yourselves millions and for what?

 

And the decision to take pre orders then less than a couple of weeks later delay by 6 months? Cynical cash grab.

 

And I've been playing since cm2.

What are you guys doing?

Edited Thursday at 15:49 by Nickg07
Typo

[markyosullivan]

Surprised it's been delayed by such a long time and feels like they should cancel FM25 and focus on FM26 and gather feedback early for it.

As someone who works in the software industry, this smells like upper management with more a business mind than a software development one getting involved and forcing a decision to move on from the old engine to the new engine and perhaps they set an unrealistic expectation and dropped a bomb on the team by stating the year the new engine will go live and the year women's football will go live.

In the past I've worked in teams where the head of marketing / sales would guess a date that it would be ready and it would put the entire development team under a lot of extreme pressure to met the unrealistic deadline.

I feel for the software developers who work at Sports Interactive and hope they're okay.

I don't know why they didn't continue to develop the new engine on the side like they had been for the previous iterations and just have FM25 build on top of FM24 instead of canning it and going all in to push the new engine and have it ready in time.

Personally I would love to read a deep dive into what went wrong internally by a high ranking official at Sports Interactive and who knows perhaps people will be a bit more sympathetic towards those who work there.

[Par1s]

Release a patch with all the new transfers etc as well January's transfers.

Do not release FM 25 at all. If you still want to do it, give it for free.

Focus on FM26.

Bring back all the removed features.

[markyosullivan]

5 minutes ago, sufcdan said:

One thing I can't help but agree with is taking pre orders when the game was obviously clearly hanging on the line. I find that inexcusable to be frank, and the ''unlockable'' dates of the roadmap.

The people who understand the current state of the development of the game are not the same people who are pushing the sales / marketing

You can have people who work in sales / marketing who don't care about the concerns the development team are saying

[Ghost77]

3 minutes ago, markyosullivan said:

Surprised it's been delayed by such a long time and feels like they should cancel FM25 and focus on FM26 and gather feedback early for it.

As someone who works in the software industry, this smells like upper management with more a business mind than a software development one getting involved and forcing a decision to move on from the old engine to the new engine and perhaps they set an unrealistic expectation and dropped a bomb on the team by stating the year the new engine will go live and the year women's football will go live.

In the past I've worked in teams where the head of marketing / sales would guess a date that it would be ready and it would put the entire development team under a lot of extreme pressure to met the unrealistic deadline.

I feel for the software developers who work at Sports Interactive and hope they're okay.

I don't know why they didn't continue to develop the new engine on the side like they had been for the previous iterations and just have FM25 build on top of FM24 instead of canning it and going all in to push the new engine and have it ready in time.

Personally I would love to read a deep dive into what went wrong internally by a high ranking official at Sports Interactive and who knows perhaps people will be a bit more sympathetic towards those who work there.

Where can I sign this?

[Rodrigogc]

3 minutos atrás, markyosullivan disse:

Surprised it's been delayed by such a long time and feels like they should cancel FM25 and focus on FM26 and gather feedback early for it.

As someone who works in the software industry, this smells like upper management with more a business mind than a software development one getting involved and forcing a decision to move on from the old engine to the new engine and perhaps they set an unrealistic expectation and dropped a bomb on the team by stating the year the new engine will go live and the year women's football will go live.

In the past I've worked in teams where the head of marketing / sales would guess a date that it would be ready and it would put the entire development team under a lot of extreme pressure to met the unrealistic deadline.

I feel for the software developers who work at Sports Interactive and hope they're okay.

I don't know why they didn't continue to develop the new engine on the side like they had been for the previous iterations and just have FM25 build on top of FM24 instead of canning it and going all in to push the new engine and have it ready in time.

Personally I would love to read a deep dive into what went wrong internally by a high ranking official at Sports Interactive and who knows perhaps people will be a bit more sympathetic towards those who work there.

I'm sure something must have went really wrong internally as well. No way SI couldn't have foreseen the game would not be finished in November, this is something even the most casual fan could predict given the circumstances. I'd give my left arm to be a mosquito and see what is going on on their meetings.

[DP]

1 hour ago, forameuss said:

For all the haughty march down the garden to pick up the pitchforks, there's no real way to know what has gone on between "here's our roadmap, and it'll be released at the end of November" and "yeah, it's going to be March lads, soz".  It makes little sense that they would go through with the whole stuff they did last week if they didn't think there was a chance of releasing something functional when they said they would.  It's very possible that they simply came across something that look their idea of November and gleefully kicked it to death.  It doesn't matter how close you are to release, it happens.  If there really is some nefarious plan to this to try and extort pre-order money from people and hope they won't refund, they wouldn't be announcing this now, and could have strung things along by being vague enough with their roadmap announcements. 

And also, one point about whether it's worth releasing 25 and not just waiting until 26.  I wouldn't be surprised if they've not already got a massive package of licenses purchased that only entitle them to use next season.  They're already in damage limitation mode, you really think they're not just going to take the hit of not releasing a title at all, but also potentially waste that not-insignificant license money?  No chance.

Ultimately a March release is incredibly disappointing, but with pressure off, it could well be the most stable title we've had in a while, and give a chance to add some stuff that would have never made November.  

It won’t be the most stable title we’ve had in a while, come on now. 

You can’t bang on about the complexity of moving to Unity/new system in multiple posts and then say this one will be the most stable. 

Edited Thursday at 15:59 by DP

[Kevinho7]

At least have the decency to put out an official roster update for the 2024/2025 season then for fm24. This shouldn’t be in the hands of modders anymore, but it’s their responsibility now. My god. 

[Nickg07]

1 minute ago, Rodrigogc said:

I'm sure something must have went really wrong internally as well. No way SI couldn't have foreseen the game would not be finished in November, this is something even the most casual fan could predict given the circumstances. I'd give my left arm to be a mosquito and see what is going on on their meetings.

 

They knew it and released it for pre orders anyway... cynical

[the raven]

The delay is fair enough but what isnt is chucking out the roadmap knowing it was never ever going to make its release. Pushing it back some 5 months means its really broken this must have been known for weeks. 

Poor show, At this stage a free data update for 24 and release this as fm26 imo

[Kevinho7]

How does this even work tho with their PL licensing then? Aren’t they contractually obligated in some way to release at least something due to their PL licensing agreements, and aren’t they faced with breach fines now?

[janrzm]

It’s regrettable that people are still pointing to the inclusion of women’s football as a mitigating factor in the delay. Now it's almost being tarnished by association when in reality its probably one of the smaller obstacles they face. 

If you saw the Unity video on here yesterday it would have given you a small insight into the enormity of the challenge.

The biggest failing here as been one of communication, internally and externally.

[ForTheLoveOfTheGame]

Unless FM25 is binned, the next version that’ll live up to what the fanbase expect is FM27.

Make the right choice guys! Can’t be waiting another two years for the next decent FM.

[Junkhead]

10 minutes ago, Nickg07 said:

Huge huge mistake.

 

Why did you guys not plan to release fm25 with the new engine AND THEN add in womens in the next installment?

 

Which do you think would equal more sales? Launch in March with women's leagues or launch in September with international management and a working game?

 

Who do you think your core audience is?

 

Si you have cost yourselves millions and for what?

 

And the decision to take pre orders then less than a couple of weeks later delay by 6 months? Cynical cash grab.

 

And I've been playing since cm2.

What are you guys doing?

Except there's no indication at all that it's the addition of women's football that has caused the delay.

I would imagine if that's all it was, the publisher would have asked them to release without, the same as you've suggested.

[DP]

Just now, Kevinho7 said:

How does this even work tho with their PL licensing then? Aren’t they contractually obligated in some way to release at least something due to their PL licensing agreements, and aren’t they faced with breach fines now?

Not necessarily. It’s dependent on the contract and there is likely nothing in there from the PL that states it must release at a certain time. Why would they care?

[91836]

What SI want us to believe happened is that they only realised after opening up preorders 11 days ago that the game wouldn't be ready for 5+ months. That is simply not plausible 

[HighFlyingDwarf]

WorkTheSpace correctly calling out that SI knew the game wasn't ready and went ahead with preorders anyways.

 

[BCFC_Mike]

Haven't posted for a while on these forums, but I have been keeping a close eye on the development of FM25 having owned every game in the series.

FM24 actually provided me with my longest save to date - so the love for the game is still there.

However, they've handled this extremely badly - the 'roadmap', allowing pre-orders knowing full well it wasn't going released when stated - really really not good enough.

I won't go on a tirade of criticism - but Miles really needs to come out in the next 24 hours and explain more in detail.

Please please please, take the feedback onboard from this announcement - SCRAP FM25, we do not want a game where we are starting a save on a date which has already been and gone. There is no sense. 

Pause development or at the very least prioritise a substantial data update for FM24 with transfers, promotions/relegations etc etc etc. 

Failure to do the above will just show how out of touch SI/Miles really is with the FM community IMHO. 

Please do the right thing. 

 

Edited Thursday at 16:06 by BCFC_Mike

[Etebaer]

I feel the delay of FM25 is a sensible thing to do and shows they take their responsibilities seriously well!

I would not even be offended if they released simply a FM25 database update for FM24 and took a little money in for it...the data should be there anyway...

 

If it goes as hoped time will tell, no?

Edited Thursday at 16:04 by Etebaer

[the raven]

Just now, 91836 said:

What SI want us to believe happened is that they only realised after opening up preorders 11 days ago that the game wouldn't be ready for 5+ months. That is simply not plausible 

Thats the gripe, as i said most of us would have been alot more acceptable of a delay. However they had to know this was never even a remote chance of making its release and pushed on regardless. 

[Tummyowl]

I love Football Manager. I've played consistently for years, since the 90's... this is the first time I feel sort of, let down? I think the decision to release the trailer, and take pre orders etc very recently considering this decision will not have been taken overnight is really disappointing.

I have no problem waiting for a good FM. I really hope this next FM is good.

I think SI need to be much better with their fan engagement and media/press stuff. Much better.

[Rodrigogc]

1 minuto atrás, 91836 disse:

What SI want us to believe happened is that they only realised after opening up preorders 11 days ago that the game wouldn't be ready for 5+ months. That is simply not plausible 

That's why some believe something must have went really wrong in the few last days. This possibility is corroborated by the fact that they haven't shown anything about women's football this week as well. Now they deliver this delaying statement all of a sudden.

[DMC-12]

14 minutes ago, Nickg07 said:

Huge huge mistake.

 

Why did you guys not plan to release fm25 with the new engine AND THEN add in womens in the next installment?

 

Which do you think would equal more sales? Launch in March with women's leagues or launch in September with international management and a working game?

 

Who do you think your core audience is?

 

Si you have cost yourselves millions and for what?

 

And the decision to take pre orders then less than a couple of weeks later delay by 6 months? Cynical cash grab.

 

And I've been playing since cm2.

What are you guys doing?

The women's leagues have nothing to do with the delay - it's the switch to Unity that's the problem. 

Even if that wasn't going to be part of the game, it still wasn't getting released in November. It's nowhere near ready. 

[Gehenna]

24 minutes ago, VautourDX said:

Criticising the abject failure of FM 25 is not "toxic", neither is criticising the head of the studio whose job it is to get a quality product out within advertised timescales. 

Criticising their decision to take preorders for a game that they knew was nowhere near being finished isn't toxic either. 

Miles has taken plenty of victory laps over the years when things have been going well. He's taken more than his fair share when the franchise stagnated. On that basis, he can take his fair share of criticism for this circus he created. 

 I disagree. Wishing someone would lose their job over a delay is entirely toxic and exposes little empathy for others. It's not a healthy state of mind to have. Most people involved in video games just want to do their job. It's coders, graphical artists and so on just doing their job to the best of their ability. Arbitrarily calling a group of people shill and scammers isn't quite a normal behavior. Go around the Internet, read what's being posted on Reddit, Twitter, or even here, on this forum, I guess.

There are ways and ways to express criticism and disappointment. To say that FM25 has been handled poorly until now is a legitimate opinion one can have, if expressed with the right tone. To say that SI is a bunch of thieves and people should be fired isn't criticism, it's just toxicity. I don't believe it's okay for people to freakout on this level... over a video game, no less. I love FM, but there are a lot of other games to play, and I'm still having a lot of fun with FM24. 

It's not the end of the world and no, Sports Interactive isn't a company of scammers out to get your blood.

[Nickg07]

1 minute ago, Junkhead said:

Except there's no indication at all that it's the addition of women's football that has caused the delay.

I would imagine if that's all it was, the publisher would have asked them to release without, the same as you've suggested.

 

Put it this way. Money for development is limited. That's a fact.

 

Sending research teams /collating data for every single woman's team, league structure, international competition and starting this from scratch is a huge undertaking.

Plus all the testing of the rules.

Making women's based sprites/graphics/pictures of all the women's players etc.

 

How many people and how much time would all this take? If instead you focus on releasing the game without all this you could employ how many more people on the core new game engine? 5-10? More?

 

Release the new game engine. Iron out bugs. Then go scouting for girls to create all the new leagues etc.

 

It's the single largest other project in the game other than the game engine change. Of course its had a huge impact. How could it not do?

[jimbo22]

Just now, Rodrigogc said:

That's why some believe something must have went really wrong in the few last days. This possibility is corroborated by the fact that they haven't shown anything about women's football this week as well. Now they deliver this delaying statement all of a sudden.

I mean if you believe this you'll believe pigs can fly. This game wasnt ready a week ago and something happened to get us to here. The warning signs have been jumping out the computer screen to us. You either see them or you dont. 

[DP]

Just now, DMC-12 said:

The women's leagues have nothing to do with the delay - it's the switch to Unity that's the problem. 

Even if that wasn't going to be part of the game, it still wasn't getting released in November. It's nowhere near ready. 

It could be an aggregation of things tbf. Adding women’s football isn’t trivial with the database, clubs, competitions and not to mention the animations and how it works in the ME. It’s a pretty substantial undertaking. 

[91836]

2 minutes ago, Rodrigogc said:

That's why some believe something must have went really wrong in the few last days. This possibility is corroborated by the fact that they haven't shown anything about women's football this week as well. Now they deliver this delaying statement all of a sudden.

I don't think anything has gone wrong in the last few days. I think SI were dishonest about the current state of the game in order to get income from preorders. There's no way they haven't known for ages that the game wouldn't be able to release in November 

[SHK-555]

1 minute ago, Nickg07 said:

 

Put it this way. Money for development is limited. That's a fact.

 

Sending research teams /collating data for every single woman's team, league structure, international competition and starting this from scratch is a huge undertaking.

Plus all the testing of the rules.

Making women's based sprites/graphics/pictures of all the women's players etc.

 

How many people and how much time would all this take? If instead you focus on releasing the game without all this you could employ how many more people on the core new game engine? 5-10? More?

 

Release the new game engine. Iron out bugs. Then go scouting for girls to create all the new leagues etc.

 

It's the single largest other project in the game other than the game engine change. Of course its had a huge impact. How could it not do?

Yeah fm manage to release their game every year without any delay for the last 10 years, but then the introduction of woman's football comes and now we have to wait 6 months when the season is over to play a new edition. I don't believe in coincidences 

[DMC-12]

1 minute ago, DP said:

It could be an aggregation of things tbf. Adding women’s football isn’t trivial with the database, clubs, competitions and not to mention the animations and how it works in the ME. It’s a pretty substantial undertaking. 

I'm not doubting that, but they have had people working on it for years. 

Blaming the women's game for the delay to FM25 is just wrong though. It's not the cause of the delay. 

[Nickg07]

The worst part about the inclusion of the women's league is that it's a pure vanity project.

 

If you interviewed the core 80% of the fm fanbase how many would put the women's league as a huge priority?

 

I get SI might be trying to attract women to the game. But don't nuke your core base to pander to a new crowd.

 

Go to a few WSL games and check the attendance first.

[kiingallen]

1 hour ago, pedrosantos said:

So, people will be buying fm25 in March and fm26 in November ??? 

Hell no!

[azymin]

Don't kid yourself, the game won't come out in March 25. That date makes no sense, but they couldn't say that it will be released fall of 2025. Come February it will get pushed again. They're not being honest, just doing damage control.

[oi_oi_ginger_roy]

Are we still getting information on the women’s game this week tho? 👀

[HighFlyingDwarf]

5 minutes ago, Gehenna said:

 I disagree. Wishing someone would lose their job over a delay is entirely toxic and exposes little empathy for others. It's not a healthy state of mind to have

That's not what they said.

Quote

Criticising the abject failure of FM 25 is not "toxic", neither is criticising the head of the studio whose job it is to get a quality product out within advertised timescales. 

Criticising their decision to take preorders for a game that they knew was nowhere near being finished isn't toxic either. 

Miles has taken plenty of victory laps over the years when things have been going well. He's taken more than his fair share when the franchise stagnated. On that basis, he can take his fair share of criticism for this circus he created. 

Stop shilling for a company that deliberately opened preorders for a game they knew wasn't ready. There is no other excuse. This is the announcement that should have come out two weeks ago.

[mielony]

Good thing I didn't pre-purchase the game. Civ7 is coming out on February 11 and I will rather choose this game. I'm afraid that Fm2025 may be broken and will be patched all summer.

[RHKC]

At this point, just scrap it and focus on FM26. What a mess.