FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[jcw163]

Might want to look at this guys 

[anagain]

31 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

this is a football game though, it's important when it's released. If you release a game towards the end of the season, then you might as well not bother.

Blaming the customers for SI wanting to improve the graphics is absurd. SI are a company who make their own decisions, you're making out like they have been bullied into this

And yes, we don't know the full story, but regardless I think it's more than fair to question SI. If people have lost faith in them and feel like they need their trust won back, then that's absolutely fair.

A reminder that SI are not a charity. No one in here owes them anything.

I'm not blaming the customers, just reminding them that they did ask for this. Games development is not an exact science. The sooner people realise that, the better.

And I'm not prohibiting people from questioning SI, but they're people at the end of the day. Many here could remember that.

And I do buy your point about the releasing being at the end of the year. I actually think they'd do well to skip FM26. Maybe just call this FM26 now.

[madeirabhoy]

wonder what they will do with the mobile versions? contracts with Netflix and apple to consider, and lets face it the new engine doesnt affect them. could be an easy way of making it less of a **** show by still bringing them out. 

[XV20]

8 minutes ago, jcw163 said:

Might want to look at this guys 

Yeah, I've been seeing it too but now that it's been pushed back. They'll remove it sooner or later 

[latrell]

1 hour ago, madeirabhoy said:

I only preordered it last night. Was thinking it’s great timing with some long flights a week after its release. 
 

I’ll be taking a refund from steam tonight. Not because I’m in a huff and not because I’m never going to buy it again but because I genuinely can’t see it being released in March as a full price game. They can’t. Sales will be almost nonexistent.  
 

they need to either stick out a data update for a small charge this year and move onto fm 26 or release in March with a budget price (and maybe purposely pull some features so as not to affect 26 sales. 

I agree with you there, They are the exact reasons i have requested my refund, 

[ajw10]

8 minutes ago, anagain said:

I'm not blaming the customers, just reminding them that they did ask for this. Games development is not an exact science. The sooner people realise that, the better.

And I'm not prohibiting people from questioning SI, but they're people at the end of the day. Many here could remember that.

And I do buy your point about the releasing being at the end of the year. I actually think they'd do well to skip FM26. Maybe just call this FM26 now.

yes, they are people, but the customers are also people, and I think SI have forgotten about that.

Treat people like customers, then the customers will treat them as a business. 

[ajw10]

yeah the price of FM 25 is massive for me. Drastically reduce the price and that'll restore some of the faith.

Full price and SI can do one.

[silentwars]

8 minutes ago, anagain said:

I'm not blaming the customers, just reminding them that they did ask for this. Games development is not an exact science. The sooner people realise that, the better.

And I'm not prohibiting people from questioning SI, but they're people at the end of the day. Many here could remember that.

point 1) Surely you only announce a graphics overhaul when you're advanced enough with it to know it will be ready for the next installment - they've obviously underestimated how long it was going to take and doing it the same year as introducing the women's leagues was a recipe for disaster.

point 2) So are the people whose money they taken for a product they knew wouldn't be ready ... that's what's really got people's backs up. We can all accept mistakes get made and things get delayed but that was the lowest moment in the history of the game. 

[silentwars]

4 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

yeah the price of FM 25 is massive for me. Drastically reduce the price and that'll restore some of the faith.

Full price and SI can do one.

at the very least they need to bring back the free in game editor ... ridiculous that we have to pay for that on top of the game as it is 

Edited Thursday at 21:45 by silentwars

[Peter G]

5 hours ago, Nickg07 said:

 

Put it this way. Money for development is limited. That's a fact.

 

Sending research teams /collating data for every single woman's team, league structure, international competition and starting this from scratch is a huge undertaking.

Plus all the testing of the rules.

Making women's based sprites/graphics/pictures of all the women's players etc.

 

How many people and how much time would all this take? If instead you focus on releasing the game without all this you could employ how many more people on the core new game engine? 5-10? More?

 

Release the new game engine. Iron out bugs. Then go scouting for girls to create all the new leagues etc.

 

It's the single largest other project in the game other than the game engine change. Of course its had a huge impact. How could it not do?

The data and information for clubs in the game are done by volunteers. They don't get paid. 

[danmcconnell1]

48 minutes ago, anagain said:

Many games allow pre orders months and months in advance with not even a release date.

Having a preorder button is not a "you must press this".

If you skip FM25 can those who do promise not to come on here and grumble? 

I understand you don't have to pre order, I haven't and rarely do. However you generally get some form of discount for doing so, therefore there's an incentive to do so. Now that's been delayed, it just frustrates loyal fans and players. I would be looking for a refund too had I pre-ordered.

It comes down to trying to do far too much all at once. The introduction of Unity is frankly, unnecessary. I'm all for next-gen gaming, but the match engine has been bugged for years if not decades now, yet look at the loyalty to the franchise. I don't believe people buy the game to see sweat beads pouring off players faces, EAFC is where people go for that, and I'm not suggesting FM are going into that much detail for matches, of course not. Fans and players of FM buy the game for the chance to build their own success in an in depth, virtual footballing world. I don't believe the new engine is required to continue this model.

The introduction of women's football is a welcome one too, at least personally, and the dynamics of how it will fit into an already much loved franchise need to be handled carefully, but I'm confident SI will get that right. I don't believe the introduction of women's football is the sole reason the delay, especially after it's been at least 18 months/2 years since it was announced it was coming, however I fear it may have contributed in some way as part of an accumulation of factors when being added to the game at the same time as Unity coming on board.

Finally, I love playing FM and have done so for well over 15 years and never not bought the latest title, however I feel as though SI have really disappointed loyal fans by teasing the next instalment, when knowing full well it was nowhere near ready for even a Beta release. They'd already announced a delay, as well as the, albeit temporary, removing of international management, without anything brand new to really grab the attention of fans. It's a tough time for the studio and those working on the game I've no doubt, however those at the top need to have a serious think about how they communicate with a uniquely loyal fan base in the future.

[anagain]

13 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

yes, they are people, but the customers are also people, and I think SI have forgotten about that.

Treat people like customers, then the customers will treat them as a business. 

Delaying a game isn't treating customers like people?

I hope you don't play Star Citizen. 

Delaying the game is probably best for the customers. As I said, I play Cities Skylines 2. I wish they'd delayed that.

[ajw10]

1 minute ago, anagain said:

Delaying a game isn't treating customers like people?

I hope you don't play Star Citizen. 

Delaying the game is probably best for the customers. As I said, I play Cities Skylines 2. I wish they'd delayed that.

again, you are missing the point.

It's not that they delayed it, it's everything that led up to that point, including Miles talking about cancelled holidays.

And it's fine, I get it. We are customers, SI are a business. That's it. People should stop pretending like SI are doing us a favour and that they are the "good guys".

Their communication tells me that they don't respect their customers.

[davehanson]

16 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

yeah the price of FM 25 is massive for me. Drastically reduce the price and that'll restore some of the faith.

Full price and SI can do one.

I still don’t get this tbh. People will quite happily pay £40 for a game with a 20 hour story to it. But pay full price for a game that you can get 8 months out of. Nah, they can do one. Crazy.

[anagain]

14 minutes ago, danmcconnell1 said:

I understand you don't have to pre order, I haven't and rarely do. However you generally get some form of discount for doing so, therefore there's an incentive to do so. Now that's been delayed, it just frustrates loyal fans and players. I would be looking for a refund too had I pre-ordered.

It comes down to trying to do far too much all at once. The introduction of Unity is frankly, unnecessary. I'm all for next-gen gaming, but the match engine has been bugged for years if not decades now, yet look at the loyalty to the franchise. I don't believe people buy the game to see sweat beads pouring off players faces, EAFC is where people go for that, and I'm not suggesting FM are going into that much detail for matches, of course not. Fans and players of FM buy the game for the chance to build their own success in an in depth, virtual footballing world. I don't believe the new engine is required to continue this model.

The introduction of women's football is a welcome one too, at least personally, and the dynamics of how it will fit into an already much loved franchise need to be handled carefully, but I'm confident SI will get that right. I don't believe the introduction of women's football is the sole reason the delay, especially after it's been at least 18 months/2 years since it was announced it was coming, however I fear it may have contributed in some way as part of an accumulation of factors when being added to the game at the same time as Unity coming on board.

Finally, I love playing FM and have done so for well over 15 years and never not bought the latest title, however I feel as though SI have really disappointed loyal fans by teasing the next instalment, when knowing full well it was nowhere near ready for even a Beta release. They'd already announced a delay, as well as the, albeit temporary, removing of international management, without anything brand new to really grab the attention of fans. It's a tough time for the studio and those working on the game I've no doubt, however those at the top need to have a serious think about how they communicate with a uniquely loyal fan base in the future.

I was also in the camp of not being sure they needed better graphics, but I don't believe that the match engine was bugged. It was never 100% perfect, but if you consider the vast scope of it then you realise how amazing it is to recreate the game of football so well.

I don't mind them using Unity either. They decided to update the look of the game and I think it's best they do that as good as can be done. They may well have not understood how long it could take. I can't deny that.

When it comes to teasers, I thought people were upset with the lack of teasers.

I'd rather see stuff that is great than a few screenshots of stuff that could be vastly different by release.

Edited Thursday at 22:00 by anagain

[ajw10]

Just now, davehanson said:

I still don’t get this tbh. People will quite happily pay £40 for a game with a 20 hour story to it. But pay full price for a game that you can get 8 months out of. Nah, they can do one. Crazy.

it'll barely be 8 months. The game will be out of date in less than 3 months, and if history tells us anything, it's that the game will be in it's worst state for that 3 months.

[pedrosantos]

I don't have a problem with fm25 being released in march, I have pre-ordered it and I will stick with it. What I found a problem is SI not clarifying this delay and the potential impact on the release of fm26. We have been asked for 50€ for years every year, I hope SI won't ask for 100€ with 6 months difference.

[anagain]

1 minute ago, ajw10 said:

it'll barely be 8 months. The game will be out of date in less than 3 months, and if history tells us anything, it's that the game will be in it's worst state for that 3 months.

Assuming they do release FM26 in November. I do actually think it'd be best they just do this game and then skip to FM27 now that I suggested it.

[Mobius]

The article about the FM25 roadmap now redirects to the announcement of FM25 being delayed.

Where we're going, we don't need roads.

[Rodrigogc]

Thing is that people will buy the game that will be released in March, this game even though full will probably need some corrections, patchs will probably be released later and until we get a decent game it'll be almost november where they will release FM26. I can already see the massive amount of work SI will have to put to deal with the knock-on effect this delay will have. 

Unless the game will be really good, 2025 will be essentially a waste for costumers.

[anagain]

20 minutes ago, silentwars said:

point 1) Surely you only announce a graphics overhaul when you're advanced enough with it to know it will be ready for the next installment - they've obviously underestimated how long it was going to take and doing it the same year as introducing the women's leagues was a recipe for disaster.

point 2) So are the people whose money they taken for a product they knew wouldn't be ready ... that's what's really got people's backs up. We can all accept mistakes get made and things get delayed but that was the lowest moment in the history of the game. 

Assuming it ever was likely to be done within a yearly schedule. But, as I've said, if I can question one thing then it's that.

Game development is never simple.

 

They haven't taken any money yet...unless when you preorder you pay.

 

Answer? As many people say, don't preorder until you're sure. Only you to blame there.

[ajw10]

2 minutes ago, anagain said:

Assuming they do release FM26 in November. I do actually think it'd be best they just do this game and then skip to FM27 now that I suggested it.

this is the issue though as contractually and financially I suspect they can't cancel a game, which is partly why the delay is disastrous. 

Got to assume that FM 25 and 26 sales will be impacted by this. I was definitely buying 25 due to the inclusion of women's football, but why would I pay full price for a game when I could wait a bit longer, save my money and potentially buy a better game in October/November?

Or, due to the delay and not playing FM, come completely out of the habit and routine and just not purchase an FM again

[Ivan1980]

Dearest Sports Interactive, following your postponement of FM25 we ask for the release of the squad update. We trust in your work.

[silentwars]

24 minutes ago, anagain said:

Assuming it ever was likely to be done within a yearly schedule. But, as I've said, if I can question one thing then it's that.

Game development is never simple.

 

They haven't taken any money yet...unless when you preorder you pay.

 

Answer? As many people say, don't preorder until you're sure. Only you to blame there.

Luckily I didn't preorder it and never do. But those that have did so in faith they'd at least be playing it on the stated date.  

I just find it a bit strange that you mention about SI being people but individuals who have essentially been lied to are to blame for trusting (what was) a reputable company by preordering?

The whole thing is just a PR disaster. 

Edited Thursday at 22:30 by silentwars

[Supermercado99]

All this and League One manager jobs will still be taken by 30-year-old regens with leprosy who have excessively high reputation despite no history in the game.

[Tony Wright 747]

You can rant and rave on this thread as much as you like, it doesn't really affect SI. The only thing that will affect SI is sales, if you are really that angry with SI, then don't buy FM25 and wait until FM26 if there is one.

[Colossus]

1 hora atrás, madeirabhoy disse:

wonder what they will do with the mobile versions? contracts with Netflix and apple to consider, and lets face it the new engine doesnt affect them. could be an easy way of making it less of a **** show by still bringing them out. 

That might be one of the reasons why it was pushed for March and not just canceled entirely

[Iorenzo]

Let the poor devs enjoy the new banger of Dragonball Sparking Zero

[Tyler Owen]

why am i not suprised! so glad i didnt hit the pre order button this year. SI have two choices as i see it, either offer any buyers of FM25 a free upgrade to FM26 or face the face that FM25 sales will be down the pan. As a life long FM/ Champ Man player, this is the only yearly release of the new game i have absolutely no intention of buying.

[matt_forest]

1 hour ago, Supermercado99 said:

All this and League One manager jobs will still be taken by 30-year-old regens with leprosy who have excessively high reputation despite no history in the game.

Meanwhile Messi will be taking up an U18 coaching role at York City

[Gh0zt]

The red flags were apparent with basically nothing shown from the game apart from a few screenshots of the UI and a roadmap with no firm dates. It's a kick in the teeth to the people who pre-ordered expecting a November release, it's obvious SI would have known this was a possibility. The saying "it takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it" comes to mind for this debacle.People would be less upset if we knew what the state of the game was back in September.

[Jayjay8887]

This'll be the first game since I started playing back with CM 00/01 I'll skip. The fact it's been delayed a second time and especially as it's been put back until March when the majority of European leagues are beginning to wrap up has made me lose all interest. 

If FM25 does come out in March does that mean FM26 comes out in November, the same year? 

If development is so messed up, just release a data update for FM24, scrap the plans for FM25 and focus all the effort on developing for FM26 to make it the game all fans are hoping for.

 

 

[anagain]

1 hour ago, ajw10 said:

this is the issue though as contractually and financially I suspect they can't cancel a game, which is partly why the delay is disastrous. 

Got to assume that FM 25 and 26 sales will be impacted by this. I was definitely buying 25 due to the inclusion of women's football, but why would I pay full price for a game when I could wait a bit longer, save my money and potentially buy a better game in October/November?

Or, due to the delay and not playing FM, come completely out of the habit and routine and just not purchase an FM again

Call me a cynic, but I honestly don't believe people who have been playing this game 10+ years, and getting as angry about the current situation as they are, are going to never play an FM again.

I do understand where you are coming from. The question of whether there would be two releases within 6 months was the first thing I thought of when I saw the announcement.

I stand by my belief that FM is up there as one of the best value for money games on the market. If you play this game for 400 hours then that's 6p an hour. How many games are that much value?

Games like EU4 could have been but then there's Paradox's DLC strategy. Satisfactory is as good value for money. It's also the game I think other Dev studios could learn from. The community interaction from Coffee Stain has been incredible from day 1.

FM players really do have it good in the value for money stakes.

I think FM could do well to delay FM26 too. Release FM25 in March, maybe with working international management.

In October/November, or even September, release an updated database for the new season. Maybe even release a small update to the game, including international management, if not already done, and smaller improvements to the game (e.g. shouts). Whether that's free or a much reduced cost is a big question.

I guess it all very much depends on finances.

[Phil930]

Been a loyal customer since the 90s. Love the game, always look forward to it. This year will feel a little different, but in the grand scheme of things it’s ok. Keep pushing forward SI!

I will miss the beta release gif thread also!!!

[Choi seung won]

I have a few questions for Miles and the SI Senior Manager. 

When you announced the roadmap a few days ago, did you not realize that the game would not be finished in November? 

2. Whose idea was it to switch to the Unity engine and introduce women's soccer at the same time? Miles, was it you? The overwhelming workload and missed deadlines are your responsibility.

3. Wasn't the fact that Early Access wasn't mentioned in the official announcement in September and no explanation given proof that 25's progress wasn't on track? It's also ridiculous that we had pre-orders. 

[delpiero19]

Does this mean we are not getting the reveal of "the week of 7th of October"?

[Cizzu]

7 ore fa, jc1 ha scritto:

I've not played in months due it being far too easy to win with average squads once you get an over powering tactic, totally bored with it.

It's sadly true!

Edited Friday at 02:10 by Cizzu

[waraka14]

7 hours ago, Colossus said:

Because that's essentially saying that, where they are now with the game is where they should have been in May or June. 

Bruh comes out in May/June and makes the big announcement that weights have been removed because keeping it would hurt feelings. Maybe should have been paying attention to the disaster brewing. 

[JamieTC13]

This will be the only year in 20-25 year that i will not be buying, ill be waiting till FM26 comes out as there will only be 4-5 month till FM26 so its pointless for them to do this, they should just release a big data upe for FM24 and move on to FM26

 

 

[Mobius]

Quote

Development Update: Football Manager 25 | Football Manager 2025
We also considered the available game data. Only 5.6% of all FM24 PC saves have used the mode, which we feel validates our view that we need to do much, much better with the experience. That number is even smaller on Console. 
So, rather than delay FM25 even further, we’ve paused work on that area of the game and allocated those resources to other key areas. 

This is a quote from the development blog, from a month ago. I guess the bolded bit was a lie.

We've had existing features removed, AND a big delay. So the worst of both worlds. Cheers! 

Edit - oh, someone on Reddit already amusingly illustrated the point

 

Quote

Our target launch date has moved accordingly and is now scheduled for late November, rather than our usual early November slot.

This is also from last month's development blog.

I wonder what was discovered, that a delay of a few weeks became a delay of a few months? To push a release back by a few weeks, then a few weeks later decide actually let's push it back months? But at the same time, manage to create a trailer, roadmap, and start pumping pre-orders...

I guess that explains why we've not seen the game? Why the trailer features no footage of the game? Perhaps this is why Miles didn't go to the Tokyo Games Conference, because there was no game to show?

Edited Friday at 04:07 by Mobius

[whatsupdoc]

Personally I think the main think they'll be struggling with is creating animations that look good and varied enough to be displayed over a full 90 minutes. you're basically trying to recreate the sport as a dynamic animation varied by lots of attributes. 

I also don't know how many experienced unity ppl are available in the UK. 

"Undisputed" a new boxing game made out of Sheffield have really struggled using unity to make precise clashes of bodies and getting the physics of it all to look and work properly. Their recent 1.0 release has been a debacle. 

[f.zaarour]

SI really need to know how lucky they are to have such a solid core fanbase and ofcourse to be perhaps the only sim football manager game makers. But let me tell ya this if i may ...

Be carefull with this, because this is really worrying. At minimum it can be fixed in a best way imo which is to fix a FM24 update, with many updates, data and start date update espec. and 
you could even ask say a 8 euro for it, i would not have a problem with that at all. 

Then in march you need to bring the game out for a lower price, no way you can ask the same full price at that time, it would be shame and really bad. And its alrdy not looking good now, game was delayed and after that many still pre ordered the game as if the game was gonna make that new deadline and here we are now, another delay which is even way worse.

Anyway, you could set a price range around 20 to 25 euros in my opinion. All together the losses wont be that huge i think. People pay 8 euros for the FM24 update and then by lowering the FM25 price in march you make it more acceptable that people will pay for the game which has been delayed by months! 

Im really curious what ya all gonna do. Tbh for me, this is really a last chance oppurtunity towards SI. But well im just 1 dude, SI will survive that huh because again as i started with, they are lucky to have such a solid core fanbase! 

Edited Friday at 04:42 by f.zaarour

[超级足球狂热迷]

13 分钟前, f.zaarour说:

SI really need to know how lucky they are to have such a solid core fanbase and ofcourse to be perhaps the only sim football manager game makers. But let me tell ya this if i may ...

Be carefull with this, because this is really worrying. At minimum it can be fixed in a best way imo which is to fix a FM24 update, with many updates, data and start date update espec. and 
you could even ask say a 8 euro for it, i would not have a problem with that at all. 

Then in march you need to bring the game out for a lower price, no way you can ask the same full price at that time, it would be shame and really bad. And its alrdy not looking good now, game was delayed and after that many still pre ordered the game as if the game was gonna make that new deadline and here we are now, another delay which is even way worse.

Anyway, you could set a price range around 20 to 25 euros in my opinion. All together the losses wont be that huge i think. People pay 8 euros for the FM24 update and then by lowering the FM25 price in march you make it more acceptable that people will pay for the game which has been delayed by months! 

Im really curious what ya all gonna do. Tbh for me, this is really a last chance oppurtunity towards SI. But well im just 1 dude, SI will survive that huh because again as i started with, they are lucky to have such a solid core fanbase! 

You're overthinking it

[RorysRocketThrow]

It's frustrating but ultimately the decision has been taken to protect the quality of the end product and that has to be respected. 

I just don't understand the criticism of a company that will today, if not yesterday be feeling pretty low.   No software developer as an individual or as a team wants delays to their delivery, and certainly not delays that span 4 months or more. Trust me when I say this from experience, a lot of the SI staff will be on the floor professionally and having been there personally it isn't a good place to be.

Some of the posts I've read I think to be kind, need to be thought out a bit more before they're posted. 

SI were in a position of HOBSONS choice.  Changes have been requested for years, both to the UI and match engine and the company had to make this change eventually.  Sure, you could question why this wasn't done piece by piece in the background over many years but none of us know the codebase and how easy or hard it was to do. Platform changes are tricky to put it mildly and unexpected issues can crop up when you least expect them even against a backdrop of the best planning you've put in place.  Again, experience I have the battle wounds and T Shirt for. 😂

People just need to support SI here in the decision they've made to protect the quality of the product and ultimately our value for money.   If the product isn't right it isn't right. 

They've done the right thing and I'd like to reach out and offer a hand of comfort to all the devs and support staff at a time when they'll all be feeling it. 

 

Keep going guys, it'll be worth it! 

[Sheep]

disappointed with the news and also that 10 days prior pre-orders were requested for delivery in November.

SI you are better than this and you know it. Keep on going though, I'd rather you release the game in the best state possible than something half baked. March is very late though,

[SkyNoudyo]

23 minutes ago, RorysRocketThrow said:

People just need to support SI here in the decision they've made to protect the quality of the product and ultimately our value for money.   If the product isn't right it isn't right.

How about a few weeks ago when they opened up pre-orders, knowing the condition their game was in? It would be good if SI provided some clear communication regarding the state of development and why there have been this many long delays. People have a right to be disappointed and especially angry after that pre-order fiasco.

Edited Friday at 05:46 by SkyNoudyo

[Scottmac83]

Long time lurker but have found this thread and the implosion to be pretty outstanding reading 😂

I remember the original CM upgrades and the Collyer brothers acknowledging they were self taught so the code was a mess and new developers being brought in. They'd come in and do interviews making out CM3 onwards would never have these issues as the code would be built up in a way that meant the code would be amended where needed so it was amusing to read all these years later the FM code is a mess.

Traditionally the biggest asset SI has is their online community. It's a shame the game has been delayed but it's a bigger shame folk are being so aggressive. I think it's possible to be annoyed but also respectful to the makers of the game.

I think ultimately SI will get it right because the online community will support the game as they always do. I look forward to reading this thread in six months and seeing how it's developed.

[RandomGuy.]

13 hours ago, SHK-555 said:

Yeah fm manage to release their game every year without any delay for the last 10 years, but then the introduction of woman's football comes and now we have to wait 6 months when the season is over to play a new edition. I don't believe in coincidences 

It's probably been mentioned but the last time FM changed engines the game was delayed until March aswell.

If you're looking for something to point your finger at and screech towards then it's far, far, more likely the switch to Unity that's caused this issue than the woman's game.

[thomas_e]

6 hours ago, matt_forest said:

Meanwhile Messi will be taking up an U18 coaching role at York City

This is spot on. And it made me laugh, which I needed after yesterdays news.

[SimonHoddle]

I feel sorry for SI as this will be a revenue hit like no other. And that might cost jobs which is very sad for the individuals. The true responsibility lies at the very top.

this is the consequences of years of hubris. Of taking no competition and utterly loyal customers for granted. For destroying the look of the game in 2018 and never admitting it. That should have been 1 step backwards for 3 forwards - it never was. For never admitting faults when we could all see them.

how long has this new version been in dev for? And only now do you admit to your fans it’s broken. 

It’s such a shame there’s no competition and you rely on your free researchers, unwavering fans, this forum and football itself to produce a game that people grudgingly buy every year.

The wait better be worth it SI. You might just have created a gap in the market for the most popular sport in the world!