FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[basqueliverpool]

6 minutes ago, spursfan said:

Yes I would care about it, else why bother? EA has already done this, and it's 'excellent', isn't it?

I don't play FIFA, find it quite dull after a while as same game over and over for me. Nice multiplayer.

For me FM wouldn't matter in terms of movements, I'd rather the package around the match was better then the matchplay be different for men and women.

I think if you try splitting the two it would cause massive issues.

Also, In a online article, it said you can flick the men and women off and play one or other or both. 

For me, FM should be released in September anyway as game is just an updated database with extra features each year and realistically how much more can you add to the game without it becoming overbearing for most?

Extended pc requirements will also factor out a percentage of fanbase too. 

 

Sometimes things can just get over complicated whilst trying to please everyone.

Just my opinion mind

 

[Touristas3]

i have a couple of questions to ask ,

 

- Is SI really , really , REALLY charging us FULL PRICE for a game delayed for 5 months ??? After all that communicational failure thats been going on since they started those development updates on FM25 ?

Preorders are still running for a game that doesnt even exist yet , only some design concepts.

 

Second thing i want to know is if Miles can now finally take that trip to the US that he cancelled when the game was in danger of being delayed 

[Hairycull]

The biggest worry for me is what will the state of fm26 be? There is not much time for developement between the release of fm25 in March and the traditional release of FM's in October/November.

[Velja93]

56 minutes ago, SPE3D said:

Making the women's game as a separate game is never going to happen because it  would not get many sales. 

Whilst most of us will give the women's game a go. I think a very small percentage would be prepared to pay for a separate game.

Why not ? Set 10 pounds price for starter, then build up and make new fanbase.Start is always hard and non proffitable, but is only right way.

Why are we talking about womens football so much and making it prime new feature, if no one is gonna sacrifice money to help womens football.Skip mens football for one year, then buy womens football game if you want to help.You can advocate ass you want online when costs you nothing, but when it costs you money people  refuse to deffend and help.Wnba(womens basketball) is non proffitable for 25 years and financed by Nba.This year gained  some popularity and some fanbase.Nothing is made overnight.

[WelshMourinho]

15 minutes ago, Hairycull said:

The biggest worry for me is what will the state of fm26 be? There is not much time for developement between the release of fm25 in March and the traditional release of FM's in October/November.

I imagine "let's walk before we can run" will be the sentiment regarding this at SI right now. 

 

They quite literally can't get this years game out yet. 

I feel FM26 will come out with very little new features and they'll almost have to take a bit of a hit on it just to get their yearly timeline back on track.

[Hairycull]

10 minutes ago, WelshMourinho said:

I imagine "let's walk before we can run" will be the sentiment regarding this at SI right now. 

 

They quite literally can't get this years game out yet. 

I feel FM26 will come out with very little new features and they'll almost have to take a bit of a hit on it just to get their yearly timeline back on track.

Yes I imagine you are right.

 

I personally think they should take a hit now and give us a transfer/player update instead of a game this year for a fee and then make the current game thats in development fm26. That I guess would set a dangerous precedent for them though as 1/3 of FM games probably only every need a transfer/player update and not a brand new game.

[pedrosantos]

I feel fm25 and fm26 will be a fm25 in two parts, fm25.1 and fm25.2. I hope SI won't release both asking 50€ for each.

[Robbie Hood]

17 minutes ago, pedrosantos said:

I feel fm25 and fm26 will be a fm25 in two parts, fm25.1 and fm25.2. I hope SI won't release both asking 50€ for each.

I feel this would be the correct way to do it. Release FM25 in march, and then FM25.1 in september. That way the game number finally matches the year. FM26 will then be released in september 2026.

Quote from Svein Kvernoey, Studio Technical Director, Sports Interactive:

"Don`t ask me exactly why we`re doing this thing where the product year is different to the actual year because that confuses ourselves sometimes as well."

By doing it this way at least something positive can come from this setback with the delay

Edited Saturday at 18:49 by Robbie Hood

[RandomGuy.]

5 hours ago, jcafcwbb said:

Surely they would just update the database used in FM24 on the FM24 engine with the transfers in the August 2024 transfer window and add another database to the FM24 game. The update we are asking for has nothing to do with anything concerned with FM25. I think you are over-complicating things.

From a PR point of view they need to move resources to this.

You would hope they haven't deleted off the FM24 files yet.

Is the database a constantly evolving thing though?

I don't think they have the old databases just taking up space somewhere tbh. 

There'll be back ups but dependent on the system used it might overwrite the current model and set it back as far back as March time.

I feel like its far more work than people are imagining to both reset everything back to FM24 standards then also do all the work again that they'd previous had between March and sometime before November to do.

[SPE3D]

31 minutes ago, Velja93 said:

Why not ? Set 10 pounds price for starter, then build up and make new fanbase.Start is always hard and non proffitable, but is only right way.

Why are we talking about womens football so much and making it prime new feature, if no one is gonna sacrifice money to help womens football.Skip mens football for one year, then buy womens football game if you want to help.You can advocate ass you want online when costs you nothing, but when it costs you money people  refuse to deffend and help.Wnba(womens basketball) is non proffitable for 25 years and financed by Nba.This year gained  some popularity and some fanbase.Nothing is made overnight.

I'm all for women's football but I doubt many people would buy a separate game. Hope they do release one. Would love to be proved wrong but where are all these people when it comes to watching women's football? When it comes to paying for a ticket they're nowhere to be seen.

[Hopfrog12]

So, is that it? Not to sound ungrateful, but considering how one of the biggest complaints pre-delay was how little we were being told/shown of the game, SI really need to be on the ball over the next couple of months when it comes to information. Not necessarily because we "deserve" to know what is going on - it is in their own self-interest if they want to maintain the trust of the community. There are numerous valid questions that people have - Will there be any sort of data update for FM 24, or is that not possible? What does this mean for FM 26? - and if it is just radio silence for the next month all that is going to happen is that speculation and acrimony will fill the void, just like what is happening now.

[Carmi88]

43 minutes ago, SPE3D said:

I'm all for women's football but I doubt many people would buy a separate game. Hope they do release one. Would love to be proved wrong but where are all these people when it comes to watching women's football? When it comes to paying for a ticket they're nowhere to be seen.

 

[(sic)]

4 hours ago, Chooxen said:

The reason the UI has been the same for years is because it works. FM24 is a spreadsheet game because spreadsheets are the most logical way to access databases of information.

Yes, you need to click and scroll now. Not HALF as much as you will once all the salient information is communicated through massive boxes across far more menus than we currently have.

I know what it'll be like because I've played FM Mobile and Touch and I've seen the screenshots they've released of the new UI. Unless that is substantially customisable and moddable, the game will involve more scrolling through menu after menu to get to see the information you can now see at a glance. Changing the UI from lists to boxes is a thoroughly bad idea.

 

As for international football, you can't convince me it in its current form would take a long time to implement. It works exactly the same as any other league. It's a very basic system.

It would be good if they intended to radically overhaul it, but a) they've not announced they're doing that, and b) you could still implement the basic system we have in the meantime.

They effectively said they already had implemented a system but it wasn't up to standard. Well, what does that mean? Player interactions are literally broken but I bet they'll make a return largely unchanged. The reasoning doesn't add up.

It would work as it does for any other game, what do you mean? You don't think SI can work out how to paywall a feature?

I agree it would be an insanely bad move for the game. So is presenting a database of information in boxes. They're not making sensible decisions, they're making decisions that reflect their interests as developers rather than those of players. I think it's more likely they want to simplify the game. But I still wouldn't be surprised if they started introducing features as DLCs. There has to be a reason they're removing features and it's one or the other. 

I disagree that it works.

It's incredibly outdated, and there are many newer management games that did it better.

 

Anyways, just going to reply to your last point about DLCs:

If they want to charge for the game, and then release more new features behind a paywall, that's just a quick way to lose customers, and I don't see them doing it. 

 

It can only happen if they change their business model, from yearly releases, to just one game, with regular updates aka DLCs (like what Paradox is doing).

Edited Saturday at 19:54 by (sic)

[2feet]

Question just in from Nintendo:

Your team has struggled on the road for a long time now. Why can’t you put an end to the misery?

(The public will want to hear a proper response from you!)

 

Hehehe, just a bit of humour to lighten the mood!

For the record, Sega/SI will deliver a great game folks, they just need a bit of time to get it right, lets be patient.

[TownForThePrem!]

1 hour ago, SPE3D said:

I'm all for women's football but I doubt many people would buy a separate game. Hope they do release one. Would love to be proved wrong but where are all these people when it comes to watching women's football? When it comes to paying for a ticket they're nowhere to be seen.

Should my 14yr old niece who loves the Lionesses be able to play Football Manager the way I did, as my favourite club with my favourite players? Or does she not get to because you think it's not worth it? I know which I choose. It's not just about you.

[Mobius]

You can't play as The Lionesses (England Women's International Team) in FM25. 

[TownForThePrem!]

3 minutes ago, Mobius said:

You can't play as The Lionesses (England Women's International Team) in FM25. 

Luckily, like most football fans, she doesn't just support the national side and Arsenal will be in the game. 

[ajw10]

1 hour ago, SPE3D said:

I'm all for women's football but I doubt many people would buy a separate game. Hope they do release one. Would love to be proved wrong but where are all these people when it comes to watching women's football? When it comes to paying for a ticket they're nowhere to be seen.

Arsenal sold over 40k tickets for todays game

[ChrisNUFC]

2 hours ago, SPE3D said:

I'm all for women's football but I doubt many people would buy a separate game. Hope they do release one. Would love to be proved wrong but where are all these people when it comes to watching women's football? When it comes to paying for a ticket they're nowhere to be seen.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c07n21y4pkjo

 

14k in the 2nd teir of women's football. That's almost as much as some men's Premier League attendances in recent years.

Edited Saturday at 20:54 by ChrisNUFC

[Carmi88]

6 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

Arsenal sold over 40k tickets for todays game

sold out the Emirates at least 3 times last season and had a higher average attendance than 10 of the mens premier league teams.

 

Nowhere to be seen

[Hairycull]

I personally dont like watching womans football but it really does need to be in the game, even if it is restricted to a few nations at first. The womans game needs all the help it can get in promotion and hopefully one day it will be close to the mens game.

[ajw10]

1 minute ago, Carmi88 said:

sold out the Emirates at least 3 times last season and had a higher average attendance than 10 of the mens premier league teams.

 

Nowhere to be seen

average attendance of 30k last year despite numerous games at Meadow Park.

Manchester United with an average attendance of 10k, Chelsea 9k.

Arsenal had a higher average attendance than all clubs in L1 and L2 last season (3rd highest in the Championship).

Chelsea and United 6th and 4th respectively in L2

NOWHERE TO BE SEEN

[ajw10]

Also, those saying it should be released as a separate game, know what they are doing. Just another way for them to undermine women's football whilst pretending they don't have an issue with it.

Interesting that the same people aren't saying that SI should release an international management only game.

[SPE3D]

1 hour ago, TownForThePrem! said:

Should my 14yr old niece who loves the Lionesses be able to play Football Manager the way I did, as my favourite club with my favourite players? Or does she not get to because you think it's not worth it? I know which I choose. It's not just about you.

Read my post and misquote me again.

[Velja93]

8 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

Also, those saying it should be released as a separate game, know what they are doing. Just another way for them to undermine women's football whilst pretending they don't have an issue with it.

Interesting that the same people aren't saying that SI should release an international management only game.

lnternational management is removed from fm 25.So this argument doesnt make sense.

l personally dont care about international managment.

Women football is alibi for sports interactive.Their excuse if they make another game full of bugs.

You can spin all you want, we are not the problem.

Fm community has very loyal fanbase.

My opinion is that womens football deserve their own game.How is undermine to have separate game ?

 

 

 

[Colossus]

1 hora atrás, (sic) disse:

I disagree that it works.

It's incredibly outdated, and there are many newer management games that did it better.

 

Anyways, just going to reply to your last point about DLCs:

If they want to charge for the game, and then release more new features behind a paywall, that's just a quick way to lose customers, and I don't see them doing it. 

 

It can only happen if they change their business model, from yearly releases, to just one game, with regular updates aka DLCs (like what Paradox is doing).

The UI is absolutely terrible for new players, and that is a huge barrier for entry, same as the graphics engine. We can look past it because we are accostumed to it, and we know our way around the game, but it the game 100% needs a new UI

[Petra90]

It's really simple: the game is called Football Manager, not Men's Football Manager nor Women's Football Manager. Makes sense we have both in the game since both are Football.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Velja93 said:

lnternational management is removed from fm 25.So this argument doesnt make sense.

l personally dont care about international managment.

Women football is alibi for sports interactive.Their excuse if they make another game full of bugs.

You can spin all you want, we are not the problem.

Fm community has very loyal fanbase.

My opinion is that womens football deserve their own game.How is undermine to have separate game ?

You understand that if SI took your advice there would genuinely be less resources to be spent on the men's side as they'd need developers creating a whole other game and having to make two side by side rather than just tweaking the one, don't you?

Like if your argument is you want less resources spent on woman's football than having it as a background to the men's game you can simply ignore is more what you want than SI creating an entire game for it.

[Chooxen]

3 hours ago, (sic) said:

I disagree that it works.

It's incredibly outdated, and there are many newer management games that did it better.

The UI literally works in that it is economical. You can customise it to see all the information you want at a glance. Your whole squad in one page, whatever information you feel is relevant.

Look at the screenshots of the new UI. How many of those player boxes can you fit on one screen? How much information can each contain? Where are all the side menus? Where are all the options within the menus we've seen? Click, click, scroll, click, click, etc. 

I promise you that this will be the biggest gripe with the game moving forward. Imagine trying to play FM25 Mobile but with all the features of the desktop game. Imagine scouting without a spreadsheet.

What they're doing to the UI isn't only unnecessary, it's actually the worst possible change they could make. It's reinventing the wheel into a square.

  

2 hours ago, TownForThePrem! said:

Should my 14yr old niece who loves the Lionesses be able to play Football Manager the way I did, as my favourite club with my favourite players? Or does she not get to because you think it's not worth it? I know which I choose. It's not just about you.

She should be able to play it but realistically very few people are going to buy FM25 solely because it has women's football in it. Additionally, you won't be able to manage the Lionesses, which is probably the main way in which the women's game appeals. The issue isn't the fact it's been introduced, it's that they're doing it at a time where they apparently very short on resources. If they wanted it to be a fun and well-received game mode, they've gone the wrong way about it.

Edited Saturday at 23:20 by Chooxen

[Colossus]

19 minutos atrás, Chooxen disse:

The UI literally works in that it is economical. You can customise it to see all the information you want at a glance. Your whole squad in one page, whatever information you feel is relevant.

Look at the screenshots of the new UI. How many of those player boxes can you fit on one screen? How much information can each contain? Where are all the side menus? Where are all the options within the menus we've seen? Click, click, scroll, click, click, etc. 

I promise you that this will be the biggest gripe with the game moving forward. Imagine trying to play FM25 Mobile but with all the features of the desktop game. Imagine scouting without a spreadsheet.

What they're doing to the UI isn't only unnecessary, it's actually the worst possible change they could make. It's reinventing the wheel into a square.

 

That is one of the problems with the way that SI has communicated: no one knows anything. I don't know if the UI is going to be better or worse. I do think that it needed a revamp, and it needed it a LONG time ago. It's a HUGE barrier of entry for new players, and even expecienced players don't know everything about it.

[Chooxen]

28 minutes ago, Colossus said:

That is one of the problems with the way that SI has communicated: no one knows anything. I don't know if the UI is going to be better or worse. I do think that it needed a revamp, and it needed it a LONG time ago. It's a HUGE barrier of entry for new players, and even expecienced players don't know everything about it.

Unfortunately, it's not something you can drastically simplify whilst retaining functionality.

Look at Microsoft Excel. A lot of lines and columns with complicated functions that take a long time to learn to use. Why not simplify it? Well, because it's useful for doing complicated things. The people that use it don't want a simple calculator, they need a programme that can store a lot of data, inspect it all at a glance, and move it around in complex ways. If you replaced all those little white cells with big colourful boxes, it might look nice, it might be simpler, but it wouldn't do what they need it to any longer.

The same applies to the FM UI. If you want to simplify it drastically, you'll also need to simplify what it is used for. In other words, it needs to fit a far simpler game. Ultimately, this is probably what SI are aiming towards - making FM on desktop far more in line with the simpler Touch and Mobile iterations. That's pretty clear to me from how far the new boxes look like FIFA playercards.

At the end of the day, you have to make a choice. Do you want a game that has depth and is hard for new players to get their heads around, or do you want a simple game that any smoothbrain can pick up in minutes? That's the crossroads the game is at.

Edited Sunday at 00:04 by Chooxen

[Velja93]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

You understand that if SI took your advice there would genuinely be less resources to be spent on the men's side as they'd need developers creating a whole other game and having to make two side by side rather than just tweaking the one, don't you?

Like if your argument is you want less resources spent on woman's football than having it as a background to the men's game you can simply ignore is more what you want than SI creating an entire game for it.

Nothing against womens football, and including it in football manager, thats natural thing to do, but l think that exposure and popularization would be bigger as a separate game.Thats how you make a brand.

l think that football manager has bigger issues to fix, before adding womens football.Fix what is broken, then add more new features simple ass that.

Rushing with womens football and unity engine in same year get us where we are today.

fm24-didnt get match engine fixes on march update.(reason working on fm 25)

fm 25-Result is delay of 5 months.

if you are not competent to do both things choose one.

The right way would be add womens football on fm 25, but keep old engine, then work on unity engine for fm 26, or fm 27 when is ready.

 

 

 

 

[kiwityke1983]

The UI for the past 5-6 iterations of the game has been getting progressively worse IMO. 

I said about 50 pages ago that nearly every new feature over that timeframe has been to take an old feature add 3 clicks where there used to be one and call it something new.

I don't know if the new tile system will be like this or not because I've literally seen 3 mock up screenshots of it so far.

But from what I have seen it makes the same mistakes the old FM UI does:

1 - So much wasted space.

2 - This often makes things look cluttered.

3 - This makes it difficult to parse info at a glance. Creating an overload of info.

4 - Which makes it visually unappealing.

5 - Linked to the above there's no visual flair between different teams. An Arsenal page looks exactly like a Chelsea page. It shouldn't.

Someone posted a screenshot of F1 managers tile based UI several pages ago and that looks very nice and exactly what FM should be aiming for IMO.

What we've seen so far of the FM25 UI it's FM24 but slightly different.

 

[Colossus]

5 horas atrás, Chooxen disse:

Unfortunately, it's not something you can drastically simplify whilst retaining functionality.

Look at Microsoft Excel. A lot of lines and columns with complicated functions that take a long time to learn to use. Why not simplify it? Well, because it's useful for doing complicated things. The people that use it don't want a simple calculator, they need a programme that can store a lot of data, inspect it all at a glance, and move it around in complex ways. If you replaced all those little white cells with big colourful boxes, it might look nice, it might be simpler, but it wouldn't do what they need it to any longer.

The same applies to the FM UI. If you want to simplify it drastically, you'll also need to simplify what it is used for. In other words, it needs to fit a far simpler game. Ultimately, this is probably what SI are aiming towards - making FM on desktop far more in line with the simpler Touch and Mobile iterations. That's pretty clear to me from how far the new boxes look like FIFA playercards.

At the end of the day, you have to make a choice. Do you want a game that has depth and is hard for new players to get their heads around, or do you want a simple game that any smoothbrain can pick up in minutes? That's the crossroads the game is at.

And thank god that I am not payed to make those decisions, to be honest. It is a very tight rope to handle

[RandomGuy.]

4 hours ago, Velja93 said:

Nothing against womens football, and including it in football manager, thats natural thing to do, but l think that exposure and popularization would be bigger as a separate game.Thats how you make a brand.

l think that football manager has bigger issues to fix, before adding womens football.Fix what is broken, then add more new features simple ass that.

Rushing with womens football and unity engine in same year get us where we are today.

fm24-didnt get match engine fixes on march update.(reason working on fm 25)

fm 25-Result is delay of 5 months.

if you are not competent to do both things choose one.

The right way would be add womens football on fm 25, but keep old engine, then work on unity engine for fm 26, or fm 27 when is ready.

But they probably didn't realise they had certain issues with switching to Unity until they had the game in a truly testable state, which requires you giving it the resources attention you would if it was the next release.

If they done woman's football this year then the Unity switch next year then I'm almost certain we'd still be getting a delayed game as they just wanted spot the issues that have caused the delays until they're deep into the testing process.

Adding woman's football is no different to adding a new country as playable. By all accounts they'd been doing the stuff like motion captures for years before this so all that was needed was the research side of things, which they hired extra people for so the men's side wasn't compromised. Much like how they done the same when adding USA/Japan etc.

Its the switch to Unity that's brought issues as the entire game code is needed rewritten, much like what happened with CM4, and delaying that would just have kicked the can down the road another year as you'd never have it in the state to know its broken until it's too late. Clearly there's something they can't replicate across different engines and are having to start from scratch with.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

10 hours ago, TownForThePrem! said:

Should my 14yr old niece who loves the Lionesses be able to play Football Manager the way I did, as my favourite club with my favourite players? Or does she not get to because you think it's not worth it? I know which I choose. It's not just about you.

She should go outside and play in what remains of the sun. If I had my way again, 2000 hours of managing Lewes to Champions League glory would have been better placed in arts and crafts and the natural world.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

11 hours ago, (sic) said:

I disagree that it works.

It's incredibly outdated, and there are many newer management games that did it better.

Which games?

[jmlima]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

But they probably didn't realise they had certain issues with switching to Unity until they had the game in a truly testable state, which requires you giving it the resources attention you would if it was the next release.

...

This, being true, would be thereabouts with their inability to understand different weight fluctuations right at the onset.

[jmlima]

4 minutes ago, HighFlyingDwarf said:

Which games?

More specifically, which spreadsheet football management games?

[TownForThePrem!]

14 minutes ago, HighFlyingDwarf said:

She should go outside and play in what remains of the sun. If I had my way again, 2000 hours of managing Lewes to Champions League glory would have been better placed in arts and crafts and the natural world.

"Sorry, you can't play with us, go and do arts and crafts." Yikes.

[davehanson]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

But they probably didn't realise they had certain issues with switching to Unity until they had the game in a truly testable state, which requires you giving it the resources attention you would if it was the next release.

If they done woman's football this year then the Unity switch next year then I'm almost certain we'd still be getting a delayed game as they just wanted spot the issues that have caused the delays until they're deep into the testing process.

Adding woman's football is no different to adding a new country as playable. By all accounts they'd been doing the stuff like motion captures for years before this so all that was needed was the research side of things, which they hired extra people for so the men's side wasn't compromised. Much like how they done the same when adding USA/Japan etc.

Its the switch to Unity that's brought issues as the entire game code is needed rewritten, much like what happened with CM4, and delaying that would just have kicked the can down the road another year as you'd never have it in the state to know its broken until it's too late. Clearly there's something they can't replicate across different engines and are having to start from scratch with.

I think you are oversimplifying how much work has had to go into adding women’s football. It isn’t just like adding a new league at all. SI have already said that adding women’s football has cost/will cost millions. And they began working on it 3 years (I think) ago. 

[davehanson]

18 minutes ago, TownForThePrem! said:

"Sorry, you can't play with us, go and do arts and crafts." Yikes.

That isn’t what was said. People need to stop trying to turn everything into a sexist comment

[Robbles Quin ®™]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

But they probably didn't realise they had certain issues with switching to Unity until they had the game in a truly testable state, which requires you giving it the resources attention you would if it was the next release.

If they done woman's football this year then the Unity switch next year then I'm almost certain we'd still be getting a delayed game as they just wanted spot the issues that have caused the delays until they're deep into the testing process.

Adding woman's football is no different to adding a new country as playable. By all accounts they'd been doing the stuff like motion captures for years before this so all that was needed was the research side of things, which they hired extra people for so the men's side wasn't compromised. Much like how they done the same when adding USA/Japan etc.

Its the switch to Unity that's brought issues as the entire game code is needed rewritten, much like what happened with CM4, and delaying that would just have kicked the can down the road another year as you'd never have it in the state to know its broken until it's too late. Clearly there's something they can't replicate across different engines and are having to start from scratch with.

I think this is more closer to what's going on, and is constructive.

Even since a lot of the code is C++ to C++ and some C#, you have to remember that even if it is the same language, some sections of the code have got to be over 10 years old, maybe even 15. Coding language does change, things get simplified and things get redundant. sometimes what works in one application doesn't work in another. Sometimes it can also feel it everything is coming together until one simple problem comes along that undoes everything.

Then again NO ONE KNOWS WHAT IS GOING ON, for all we know it could be that the ball in the match engine is invisible , or everyone's Height is over 1000cm, although I would enjoy that. 

[armbi]

These are the times we live in now. Even look at this topic on the forum: the guys insult each other by calling them misogynists, they fight for the issue of the women's side of the game more than the women themselves

[TownForThePrem!]

26 minutes ago, davehanson said:

That isn’t what was said. People need to stop trying to turn everything into a sexist comment

The problem is, that's where that attitude leads. I understand that the commentor wasn't talking specifically to women, but he said that in response to my example of my niece.

There are multiple people in this threas advocating for a seperare women's game, because they don't want to play it or they don't think many people will play it. That in turn just leads to a situation where women are being excluded because "FM is for men." 

[Etebaer]

That the Youtube side of things now is showing some signs of playing innocent in bulding pressure upon SI to expedite the transition to a new wonderous end of all means 3D game engine is a little weak i have o say.

I remember clearly the hours long "move to a new 3D game engine" discussion/pleading Vids that were hugley popular - one should take responsibility for ones public influence...no?

Edited Sunday at 08:28 by Etebaer

[Velja93]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

But they probably didn't realise they had certain issues with switching to Unity until they had the game in a truly testable state, which requires you giving it the resources attention you would if it was the next release.

If they done woman's football this year then the Unity switch next year then I'm almost certain we'd still be getting a delayed game as they just wanted spot the issues that have caused the delays until they're deep into the testing process.

Adding woman's football is no different to adding a new country as playable. By all accounts they'd been doing the stuff like motion captures for years before this so all that was needed was the research side of things, which they hired extra people for so the men's side wasn't compromised. Much like how they done the same when adding USA/Japan etc.

Its the switch to Unity that's brought issues as the entire game code is needed rewritten, much like what happened with CM4, and delaying that would just have kicked the can down the road another year as you'd never have it in the state to know its broken until it's too late. Clearly there's something they can't replicate across different engines and are having to start from scratch with.

They added Japanese league last year full of bugs and with so many mistakes, and thats just one league.Imagine adding 10 leagues all new players , new database, rules.You are creating new database from scratch, not adding new league, that requires so much time and resources.Womans football is whole new universe, not adding another league.

l think they needed to work on unity couple more years and get us more polished fm 24, as fm 25 with maybe womens football and l think people would be ok with it.

Thats just my opinion.

[davehanson]

13 minutes ago, TownForThePrem! said:

The problem is, that's where that attitude leads. I understand that the commentor wasn't talking specifically to women, but he said that in response to my example of my niece.

There are multiple people in this threas advocating for a seperare women's game, because they don't want to play it or they don't think many people will play it. That in turn just leads to a situation where women are being excluded because "FM is for men." 

No, you are making things up that nobody has said.

I haven’t read through all of this thread - so can you quote for me where someone has said they want it a seperate game because they don’t want to play women’s football? 
 

I have three children. I actively encourage them as much as possible to actually get up and do things, outside from the PC (in all three cases to be fair PS5) world. I am up at an ungodly hour this morning to take my middle one to play Rugby. Then home to take another to a boxing show this afternoon that they are fighting in. The poster was quite right. I spent hours and hours playing CM in my youth, sometimes at the detriment of education, friends etc. There was no sexist/misogynistic attitude in their post at all - yet you called it out as such which is as equally as bad as those posts that are.

[jmlima]

44 minutes ago, Robbles Quin ®™ said:

...

Even since a lot of the code is C++ to C++ and some C#, you have to remember that even if it is the same language, ...

C++ is not the same language as C#. (You may be meaning that they are using old style C++ and now had to re-code it to new standard C++?)

Also, unity does not offer direct C++ support. (which is why someone further up mentions one of the devs mentioning they did middleware to re-use the old code so, if that's the case, frankenstein coming.)

[ajw10]

35 minutes ago, TownForThePrem! said:

The problem is, that's where that attitude leads. I understand that the commentor wasn't talking specifically to women, but he said that in response to my example of my niece.

There are multiple people in this threas advocating for a seperare women's game, because they don't want to play it or they don't think many people will play it. That in turn just leads to a situation where women are being excluded because "FM is for men." 

some people in this forum cannot see blatant misogyny - you've got no chance trying to explain subtle misogyny I'm afraid