FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[andu1]

Making in and out of possesion formations makes sense as its a standard thing in modern football. 

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, forameuss said:

Not to mention that even if the "leaks" are true, like...who cares? In isolation, they mean absolutely nothing without having the actual implementation. Particularly with things like this. They can announce the most exciting sounding feature there's ever been, but it won't mean a thing if it doesn't work, and it almost certainly won't work in the way the eternally-hyped believe it will (hiya dynamic youth rating, hiya pal). And similarly, they could give an incredibly bland rundown of features, but the combination of all of them working correctly makes the best edition ever.

Guess that doesn't allow people to loudly proclaim their excitement/disgust endlessly though.

This. There is absolutely no point passing judging on out of context "leaks", frankly we have no idea if its even accurate, let alone having any context 

[Craigus89]

1 hour ago, forameuss said:

Not to mention that even if the "leaks" are true, like...who cares? In isolation, they mean absolutely nothing without having the actual implementation. Particularly with things like this. They can announce the most exciting sounding feature there's ever been, but it won't mean a thing if it doesn't work, and it almost certainly won't work in the way the eternally-hyped believe it will (hiya dynamic youth rating, hiya pal). And similarly, they could give an incredibly bland rundown of features, but the combination of all of them working correctly makes the best edition ever.

Guess that doesn't allow people to loudly proclaim their excitement/disgust endlessly though.

Yep exactly this. Everyone jumping to the conclusion that this means there will be a huge amount more depth in the tactics creator are basing that on these new roles being inserted into the current system. But we don't know:

a) whether this is even correct info in the first place

b) what aspects of the old tactics/match engine will be kept

c) anything at all about how tactics will be implemented

For all we know the full extent of tactical options in the game could be choosing a formation and assigning players in-possession and out-of-possession roles, and that's it. I don't think that will be the case, but we have LITERALLY NOTHING to go on.

Until we see a video of the game being played at the very least, this actually tells us nothing new.

[GIMN]

31 minutes ago, Lord Rowell said:

Another alleged feature / screenshot, featuring Lucy and Trent.

I believe Sortitoutsi were just identifying players who might be considered a "playmaking wingback".  This is not an alleged screenshot from the game.  It's from the Sofascore app.

[Lord Rowell]

7 minutes ago, GIMN said:

I believe Sortitoutsi were just identifying players who might be considered a "playmaking wingback".  This is not an alleged screenshot from the game.  It's from the Sofascore app.

Thanks for info - deleted my original post - I am an idiot!!!

[rrreee3]

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

This. There is absolutely no point passing judging on out of context "leaks", frankly we have no idea if its even accurate, let alone having any context 

 

I think it's more noteworthy to talk about the absolute rat behavior of sortitoutsi and out of context football manager to spread the leaks as something authentic/credible. The fact that sortitoutsi didn't even mention their sources heightened my suspicion that it's probably bad actor(s) from Sports Interactive. 

Sports Interactive should re-evaluate their relationships towards these two communities. This is peak stupidity from sortitoutsi and out of context football manager

 

sortitoutsi tweet: 

 

out of context football manager tweet:

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 21:30 by rrreee3

[HighFlyingDwarf]

2 minutes ago, rrreee3 said:

Sports Interactive should re-evaluate their relationships towards these two communities

SI stopped providing Sortitoutsi with copies of the game years ago I believe.

[Kevinho7]

5 minutes ago, rrreee3 said:

sortitoutsi tweet: 

 

 

This looks great. Defo a step in the right direction

[talhak]

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

This. There is absolutely no point passing judging on out of context "leaks", frankly we have no idea if its even accurate, let alone having any context 

These leaks might not be accurate, as SI is known for being a tight-lipped company that manages its NDA process effectively. However, if they are indeed accurate, it would raise serious concerns for SI, and they should consider re-evaluating their external sources in terms of privacy.

[grade]

If this doesn't pan out Sortitoutsi will look kinda silly.

On the other hand don't know why they would do this if it wasn't true... but it isn't an official channel.. so...

[delpiero19]

Those changes look promising.

Let's hope it's true. Tactic screen needs a big change.

[Ti Ago]

Most of us won't use even half of that 

[janrzm]

38 minutes ago, Ti Ago said:

Most of us won't use even half of that 

I think that largely depends on SI's ability to avoid meta formations and roles. Something invariably ends up OP and a huge swathe of people just gravitate to that because their ideal experience of the game isn't realism its winning everything.  

[Ti Ago]

Yes I understood you but I meant that looks waaay complex for most users 

[autohoratio]

The player role changes have definitely piqued my curiosity. If the Ball-playing GK can be more involved in buildup play and even become an impromptu CB in possession like Heuer Fernandes at Hamburg or Pep sometimes does with Ederson I'd love it (I've suggested it as a feature request before ). Hopefully we'll get some demonstrative videos (or at least screenshots) on Monday

 

2 hours ago, rrreee3 said:

 

Sports Interactive should re-evaluate their relationships towards these two communities. This is peak stupidity from sortitoutsi and out of context football manager

SI, whose hand was forced by Sega really, had already severed their relationship with Sortitoutsi years ago (along with a couple of other FM community websites/fansites) because Sega were unhappy that SIOSI had online profiles for FM players/clubs/etc - admittedly the profiles had star ratings to indicate player ability and potential, and stuff like wage/contract expiry dates/players' positions which was based on the game data so Sega were within their rights to object - and an adboard patch that replaced SI's sponsors and the "bidstack" ads with club or competition-relevant sponsors (e.g. UCL sponsors in UCL games). I won't get into the details to avoid derailing the thread but attempts by one party to extend a cloverleaf ended up just pouring more oil on the fire.
 

[janrzm]

1 hour ago, Ti Ago said:

Yes I understood you but I meant that looks waaay complex for most users 

I wouldn't disagree with that. What's been presented in this rumour (even as just a graphical representation) is unwieldy at best, if true. 

[wazzaflow10]

8 hours ago, Lord Rowell said:

I think SI may be worried about negative vibes, and are hence "leaking" stuff in order to lift expectations.

Interesting to note roles like Carrilero, Mezzala, Segundo Volante are no longer there, though I can see approximate replacements in that screenshot.

Very "english centric" now, unless of course some of those terms are still used in other language versions?

It'll probably be a combination of in and out of posession to get those specific roles.

So theoretically a carrilero would be a wide CM in possession + wide covering CM out of possession.

I'm sure someone from the tactics forums will sort out more "traditional" roles based on in/out of possession duties if this is in fact a real leak.

[wazzaflow10]

3 hours ago, grade said:

If this doesn't pan out Sortitoutsi will look kinda silly.

On the other hand don't know why they would do this if it wasn't true... but it isn't an official channel.. so...

never underestimate the power of click generation and ad revenue.

[Kcinnay]

Would be awesome to finally be able to play a narrow 4-4-2, with wide centre midfielders on the outside. Or specific half space runners which makes the holy grail of a couple of years ago (defending in a symmetric 3-6-1) even more possible than it already is. This is the good stuff. Hope it's true! Now, zonal marking should be more than a label. Hunting in packs shouldn't depend on some boxes or role combinations.

[whatsupdoc]

12 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

More 'in the know' stuff from sortitoutsi 

 

Presuming the libero and regista have been renamed.

Not sure what a playmaking wing-back is or if I've ever seen one. TAA?

Edited Thursday at 04:56 by whatsupdoc

[kiwityke1983]

10 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

 

Presuming the libero and regista have been renamed.

Not sure what a playmaking wing-back is or if I've ever seen one.

Trent Alexander Arnold would be an example of a playmaking wing-back I believe.

[whatsupdoc]

1 minute ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Trent Alexander Arnold would be an example of a playmaking wing-back I believe.

Yeah fair.

[phnompenhandy]

21 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Trent Alexander Arnold would be an example of a playmaking wing-back I believe.

With Munoz and Porro being attacking wingbacks, I guess.

Defensive Winger gone - perhaps no one uses it.

Edited Thursday at 05:17 by phnompenhandy

[trevjim]

11 hours ago, andu1 said:

Making in and out of possesion formations makes sense as its a standard thing in modern football. 

Ironically we had this in CM 01/02

[trevjim]

6 hours ago, janrzm said:

I think that largely depends on SI's ability to avoid meta formations and roles. Something invariably ends up OP and a huge swathe of people just gravitate to that because their ideal experience of the game isn't realism its winning everything.  

Yeh this is the biggest issue which I alluded to in a earlier post.

 

I remember a few years ago SI said they have revamped the tactics so that you can play several different ways. Such as low block, tiki taka or gen gen etc.

 

Whilst you "can", the meta tactics meant that you never did because they were ineffective.

Until SI sort our the gengen/overload spam, then they can add all the player roles in the world but they will be pointless if they are fruitless.

 

There will always be meta tactics but they should be varied. You should be able to play in different ways and still achieve success. Not forced into playing one way because that's the only meta.

 

Knaps tactics table proves that formations don't really matter, but the play style does. It's stacked with gen gen.

 

In an ideal world his tactics table will have not only be gen gen as it is now, but also meta tika taka. Meta low block. Mega counter etc 

That way we can actually build our tactics the way we would in real life and formations should matter 

Edited Thursday at 06:09 by trevjim

[Slipky]

7 minutes ago, trevjim said:

 

Until SI sort our the gengen/overload spam, then they can add all the player roles in the world but they will be pointless if they are fruitless.

 

There will always be meta tactics but they should be varied. You should be able to play in different ways and still achieve success. Not forced into playing one way because that's the only meta 

Well, considering the entire game was re-written. There's a real chance this has changed.

[trevjim]

7 minutes ago, Slipky said:

Well, considering the entire game was re-written. There's a real chance this has changed.

Yeh that's what I am feeling positive about.

The long lasting issues since FM 11 such as tactics and AI squad building should hopefully be sorted.

I also hope they have managed to sort/trim the player and media interactions.

If they fix those long standing issues, they will have the best game since CM 01/02

[Novem9]

1 час назад, trevjim сказал:

The long lasting issues since FM 11 such as tactics and AI squad building should hopefully be sorted.

If you didn't like the previous 14 (!) editions, what are the chances that it will happen the 15th time around?

[zhangzhifake]

Remove national team management?Totally unacceptable！I won't buy FM25 unless national team mode is back!And I do not need female football.

[trevjim]

9 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

If you didn't like the previous 14 (!) editions, what are the chances that it will happen the 15th time around?

More likely than ever due to the engine change.

 

Most/if not all the Devs who built the original engine have moved on, so SI didn't really change it, which is why they focused on "fluff" for the last 14 years like that player interactions etc, and the core aspects of the game never really changed.

Now they are building it from the ground up, it's their chance to sort those issues out. 

 

I am under no illusion that this version will be full of bugs with it being a first version but hopefully the potential is there.

[whatsupdoc]

22 minutes ago, trevjim said:

More likely than ever due to the engine change.

 

Most/if not all the Devs who built the original engine have moved on, so SI didn't really change it, which is why they focused on "fluff" for the last 14 years like that player interactions etc, and the core aspects of the game never really changed.

Now they are building it from the ground up, it's their chance to sort those issues out. 

 

I am under no illusion that this version will be full of bugs with it being a first version but hopefully the potential is there.

I'm not sure about that. Presuming you're talking about the match engine.

They might copy large parts of the ME and the focus of the unity switch could be UI and graphics...

There certainly hasn't been any confirmation from the company that they're rebuilding the ME from the ground up.

I hope they do take the opportunity to do so though.

Plz correct me if I'm wrong about the above.

Edited Thursday at 08:40 by whatsupdoc

[forameuss]

9 hours ago, janrzm said:

I think that largely depends on SI's ability to avoid meta formations and roles. Something invariably ends up OP and a huge swathe of people just gravitate to that because their ideal experience of the game isn't realism its winning everything.  

Metas will always exist in some form by their very definition.  Clearly one of the main ones at the moment is Gegenpress, but by going after that, and anything else they consider overly powerful, you're trying to balance everything.  It's vanishingly unlikely that they'll ever be able to balance the engine in such a way that something comes out as overly powerful.  The only question is how prevalent that thing is and just how powerful it ends up being. 

6 hours ago, wazzaflow10 said:

never underestimate the power of click generation and ad revenue.

Yup.  The sites ultimately won't care.  As others have said, seems they don't have a direct relationship with SI, so they've not really got much to lose.  For all we know, SI have leaked this themselves, although that's all very Thick of It, and probably unlikely.  If someone under an NDA has leaked it, then they're the ones that could get into trouble if SI really wanted to go after them (and if they could find them).  But these sites get the clicks, they get the ad revenue, they move on.  

23 minutes ago, trevjim said:

More likely than ever due to the engine change.

Expectations really need to be tempered on this.  Unity is getting the reputation as being somewhere between a Covid nurse and Jesus Christ himself on the saviour scale, to the point where people are almost certainly going to be disappointed.  Who knows, maybe they're right, maybe it's the generational leap some people are claiming it's going to be.  But more likely it'll be a sideways step to build on.

Given that, I don't think it's really that unfair to say that someone who didn't like previous versions has an increased chance of liking this one.  Maybe a slight uptick, but that's not going to become apparent until we actually have a product.

And your comment on them "building the ME again from the ground up", I would imagine is massively overstating.  I would be astounded if they've taken something they've been working on in some form for two decades and just chuck it away.  It'll be an altered version of the existing one almost certainly.

12 hours ago, Craigus89 said:

Yep exactly this. Everyone jumping to the conclusion that this means there will be a huge amount more depth in the tactics creator are basing that on these new roles being inserted into the current system. But we don't know:

a) whether this is even correct info in the first place

b) what aspects of the old tactics/match engine will be kept

c) anything at all about how tactics will be implemented

For all we know the full extent of tactical options in the game could be choosing a formation and assigning players in-possession and out-of-possession roles, and that's it. I don't think that will be the case, but we have LITERALLY NOTHING to go on.

Until we see a video of the game being played at the very least, this actually tells us nothing new.

The wonder of online discourse and hype.  Take something tenuously factual, imagine (key word) what that would mean, make that your expectation, then pile in on the product when it doesn't meet an expectation it was never realistically going to meet.

A lot of people really, really should wait until there's a free demo out there to form their own opinions on the game.  But a lot will be impatient even knowing full well they'll be back on here complaining about it within hours.

Edited Thursday at 08:41 by forameuss

[kiwityke1983]

3 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

With Munoz and Porro being attacking wingbacks, I guess.

Defensive Winger gone - perhaps no one uses it.

I've used it in FM24 several times especially at lower levels.

I guess defensive winger is one of those that is possible to create through a combination of in and out of possession roles.

[Novem9]

12 минут назад, forameuss сказал:

And your comment on them "building the ME again from the ground up", I would imagine is massively overstating.  I would be astounded if they've taken something they've been working on in some form for two decades and just chuck it away.  It'll be an altered version of the existing one almost certainly.

Am I right in understanding that their ME is a standalone code that doesn't care about Unity or text graphics? They have some array of code that will be interpreted in Unity. So now the main focus will be on developing the interpretation, rather than improving the behavior itself?

[forameuss]

1 minute ago, Novem9 said:

Am I right in understanding that their ME is a standalone code that doesn't care about Unity or text graphics? They have some array of code that will be interpreted in Unity. So now the main focus will be on developing the interpretation, rather than improving the behavior itself?

I have no real idea, would only be going by hunches to be honest, but at best (mostly uneducated) guess, the ME would basically be its own standalone module that accepts inputs and gives outputs.  Unity will be in some way responsible for both of those.  The front-end will give some of the inputs (along with the database, which will also be separate from Unity I'd imagine), and the output will also be displayed by Unity.  

But that's not to say that the ME won't be significantly improved.  I expect it to be, particularly with the addition of women's football.  It just won't necessarily be done by this Unity magic bullet that people are imagining.  The point I was getting at with the bit you've quoted though was purely on whether it would be rebuilt or not, and that seems fanciful.  This isn't some completely broken legacy system that is simply too damaged to support, this is still easily the best match engine appearing in any game of its type.  It has significant issues, but those issues are probably more a case of stripping back and rethinking, and building on the good work they've done, rather than razing it to the ground and starting again.

But hey, if they come out and say they've done the complete opposite and built it from scratch, I'll happily admit I was wrong.

[KillYourIdols]

I Love the "Gossip" and Leaks, but reading too much into these is what causes people to be disappointed come release when it ends up being utter nonsense.

Temper your Expectations until anything is offically announced.

[whatsupdoc]

I'd be happy if these new roles are legit.

One thing that's annoyed me for ages if having limited roles with locked on / locked off instructions.

Hopefully there's more freedom for the coach or at least more options there.

[grade]

For the Match Engine underneath it all (the calculations and what not) I expect improvements, but the 3D, after these announcements we had... well call it pessimistic... We can be considered lucky if we get FM24 graphics. Not saying this is bad, but not expecting that a revolution to it. 

Maybe in future versions we will see improvements as SI expertise in Unity engine expands over the years.

Oh... 5 days till end of September. Since normally is unlikely SI release stuff during the weekend (they have done it before, so I don't discard them at all), but my bet of having more news to be on 30th, is growing in its odds at each passing day.

Edited Thursday at 09:54 by grade

[XV20]

Anyone can make up anything and say "a leaker gave them this information and this is a confirmed feature". We still have nothing from SI themselves, so right now we shouldn't gamble or think too much about the supposed leaks that are showing up recently. If anything, those are just concepts or ideas people brought up and claimed it as a new feature or whatever..🙂

[vrig]

14 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

This. There is absolutely no point passing judging on out of context "leaks", frankly we have no idea if its even accurate, let alone having any context 

People are speculating because absolutely nothing positive has come from SI themselves. This is just a glimmer of a hope that something besides the UI might change, potentially for the better.

The fact that it's speculation is proof that people are well aware that it might be a load of bull. But if speculation is no longer allowed then fine, censor it and stop people from speaking.

[KillYourIdols]

24 minutes ago, vrig said:

People are speculating because absolutely nothing positive has come from SI themselves. This is just a glimmer of a hope that something besides the UI might change, potentially for the better.

The fact that it's speculation is proof that people are well aware that it might be a load of bull. But if speculation is no longer allowed then fine, censor it and stop people from speaking.

Speculation is fine, Just some of those that "Speculate" then come in here complaining X, Y or Z HASNT been added, despite there never being any indication it was ever planned. They just get themselves stewed up.

[Bahoi]

5 minutes ago, KillYourIdols said:

Speculation is fine, Just some of those that "Speculate" then come in here complaining X, Y or Z HASNT been added, despite there never being any indication it was ever planned. They just get themselves stewed up.

But about all those things that were promised and never added, what can we do about them? How do you enjoy the better AI squad building, improved revenue streams with TV rights fixes & others, and, lest we forget, the negative transfer budget? 

[KillYourIdols]

2 minutes ago, Bahoi said:

But about all those things that were promised and never added, what can we do about them? How do you enjoy the better AI squad building, improved revenue streams with TV rights fixes & others, and, lest we forget, the negative transfer budget? 

I'm talking about Leakers and Gossip. Being Promised something by SI and not getting is fair game, A "Leaker" telling you something and not getting it is different.

[Bahoi]

7 minutes ago, KillYourIdols said:

I'm talking about Leakers and Gossip. Being Promised something by SI and not getting is fair game, A "Leaker" telling you something and not getting it is different.

Then why assume that those who talk gossip and rumor are gettig themselves "stewed up" when SI has a very long and credible history of lists of features promised and never delivered, or at best, delivered half-baked? 

They are not getting themselves stewed, up as you have very condescendingly assumed, they are only hoping for a better way to spend their free time. 

I'll stop here and leave, enjoy the thread with official SI info. Oh, wait... 

[PotatoFC]

2 hours ago, zhangzhifake said:

Remove national team management?Totally unacceptable！I won't buy FM25 unless national team mode is back!And I do not need female football.

It might be unacceptable to you, but almost nobody uses international mode. As for women’s football, it might be good for you to have  in your life *some* interaction with the existence of women.

[PotatoFC]

52 minutes ago, vrig said:

People are speculating because absolutely nothing positive has come from SI themselves. This is just a glimmer of a hope that something besides the UI might change, potentially for the better.

The fact that it's speculation is proof that people are well aware that it might be a load of bull. But if speculation is no longer allowed then fine, censor it and stop people from speaking.

this is SO whiny

[vrig]

26 minutes ago, KillYourIdols said:

Speculation is fine, Just some of those that "Speculate" then come in here complaining X, Y or Z HASNT been added, despite there never being any indication it was ever planned. They just get themselves stewed up.

Then the obvious solution would be for them to grow up, rather than suggesting speculation is pointless 

Just now, PotatoFC said:

this is SO whiny

Be happy you got a reply, because you absolutely don't deserve one. That is all.

[KillYourIdols]

5 minutes ago, Bahoi said:

Then why assume that those who talk gossip and rumor are gettig themselves "stewed up" when SI has a very long and credible history of lists of features promised and never delivered, or at best, delivered half-baked? 

They are not getting themselves stewed, up as you have very condescendingly assumed, they are only hoping for a better way to spend their free time. 

I'll stop here and leave, enjoy the thread with official SI info. Oh, wait... 

 

Out of all this, have you missed the bit where I said "SOME" purposly for your own miserable agenda?

[XaW]

Alright, keep this civil please. I don't want to kick people out of this thread unless I need to, but people need to behave and be respectable to each other otherwise we mods will have to step in.

[KillYourIdols]

Sorry @XaW