Attacking Width - when shall I use each setting?

[Jack722]

I know what attacking width does , but I don’t have a concrete idea in my head when to use wide and when to use narrow. If anyone can give any examples that would be great .

I’ve heard that narrow width can be better for counter pressing since everyone is closer to each other and the ball.

ive heard that more width in general is better for breaking down a low block since you can stretch the defence better or go round the side easier.

any other examples?
 

[warlock]

2 hours ago, Jack722 said:

any other examples?

Possession would be the main one, I think. Easier to keep the ball if players are closer to each other, fewer chances for stray passes or opposition interceptions. Since I like to play possession football I usually start games on quite narrow settings, then go wider if we're struggling to break down a parked bus.

[nugatti]

On 04/09/2024 at 17:43, warlock said:

Possession would be the main one, I think. Easier to keep the ball if players are closer to each other, fewer chances for stray passes or opposition interceptions. Since I like to play possession football I usually start games on quite narrow settings, then go wider if we're struggling to break down a parked bus.

Why don't you start matches wider and play mixed passing instead of short passing (my assumption) when expecting to dominate / meet a low block?
What do you risk when not playing narrow? Is the pass completion % much lower?

Edited September 13 by nugatti

[warlock]

29 minutes ago, nugatti said:

Why don't you start matches wider

For the reasons mentioned in the OP and my post. Namely, playing narrow makes it harder for the AI to play through our defence, improves our pressing, allows us to keep the ball and control the game.

As a general rule - espoused by many professional coaches - you want the pitch to be as small as possible in defence, and as large as possible in attack. My preference is to start narrow, and then use roles or PIs to get the appropriate players to move wide in attack.

[nugatti]

8 hours ago, warlock said:

For the reasons mentioned in the OP and my post. Namely, playing narrow makes it harder for the AI to play through our defence, improves our pressing, allows us to keep the ball and control the game.

As a general rule - espoused by many professional coaches - you want the pitch to be as small as possible in defence, and as large as possible in attack. My preference is to start narrow, and then use roles or PIs to get the appropriate players to move wide in attack.

So, according to what you describe, maybe it could be better to 'let them have it' from the start rather than waiting? Streching the pitch should be effective according the theory. When in the lead exploit them on the counter, yes? 

[warlock]

55 minutes ago, nugatti said:

'let them have it' from the start rather than waiting?

Sure, if that's what you want. Your game, your rules, have at it 

[nugatti]

7 minutes ago, warlock said:

Sure, if that's what you want. Your game, your rules, have at it 

Well, I see no reason to limit players using their skill from minute 1, so hell yeah!

[One hell of a keeper]

In FM24 how to defend narrowly to make this possible? 

[Dreambuilder]

On 13/09/2024 at 13:42, warlock said:

For the reasons mentioned in the OP and my post. Namely, playing narrow makes it harder for the AI to play through our defence, improves our pressing, allows us to keep the ball and control the game.

As a general rule - espoused by many professional coaches - you want the pitch to be as small as possible in defence, and as large as possible in attack. My preference is to start narrow, and then use roles or PIs to get the appropriate players to move wide in attack.

Interesting. What roles and PI:s?

[warlock]

2 hours ago, Dreambuilder said:

What roles and PI:s?

Below is a 4231 I used to achieve an unbeaten season with Southampton in an earlier save (after winning the Championship in season 1):

My next save was at Celta Vigo in Spain and I used this same system initially, and then made a simple change to a 433 by dropping the SS back to a CM-attack, and pushing one of the DMs forward to either a Mez-support or a carillero. We recorded back-to-back invincible seasons.

The TIs define the shape - narrow, mid-block, with a focus on retaining the ball but ready to counter when the opportunity arises. The roles reinforce the shape - one AM staying wide, one coming narrow, with the attacking fullback moving up to provide the width in the attacking third. In the 433 the same principle applies, but a CM moving wide provides additional support in the channel, either a Mez or a carillero. Setting up narrow provides the space for the wide players, who are vital in supporting the attack, creating chances while still being responsible in defence.

I don't usually use PIs or OIs. Occasionally I'll tell a specific player to dribble or shoot less. If I have a capable CD I might ask him to dribble more. On the specific subject of attacking wide, I'll simply tell one of the CMs to run wide in possession.

 

Edited Wednesday at 22:15 by warlock

[Dr Naysay]

Adding to the great advice @warlock has given @GIMN has an excellent YouTube video on this released yesterday on possesion width on his "Mustermann" YouTube channel. I highly recommend his channel but this vid was a very interesting watch for me.

[warlock]

3 hours ago, Dr Naysay said:

 @GIMN has an excellent YouTube video

I had no idea he and Mustermann are the same person (I don't generally visit the editor forum). 

[mikcheck]

Do you guys automatically go for narrow width if the other team is playing a flat 442 for example or wide if they're playing a 352? Or do you normally start all the games on normal and change based on what you see during the game?

[bosque]

5 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Do you guys automatically go for narrow width if the other team is playing a flat 442 for example or wide if they're playing a 352? Or do you normally start all the games on normal and change based on what you see during the game?

The second approach is the more logical one and I would say the best for learning how to read the game

[Feddo]

8 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Or do you normally start all the games on normal and change based on what you see during the game?

This is the way I allways play. If I notice I change my width on game to game basis to the same setting then I'll put in my tactic. But a flat 442 or a 352 can play out different from team to team. So I have tendecies to how I play against them, but first I need to know how they play. 

[Dr Naysay]

For me too it's not formation specific, you can rip apart a 352 with a narrow defensive width while having a narrow possesion setting yourself or you might struggle so it's read and react to what I am seeing.

[mikcheck]

6 horas atrás, bosque disse:

The second approach is the more logical one and I would say the best for learning how to read the game

 

2 horas atrás, Feddo disse:

This is the way I allways play. If I notice I change my width on game to game basis to the same setting then I'll put in my tactic. But a flat 442 or a 352 can play out different from team to team. So I have tendecies to how I play against them, but first I need to know how they play. 

 

1 hora atrás, Dr Naysay disse:

For me too it's not formation specific, you can rip apart a 352 with a narrow defensive width while having a narrow possesion setting yourself or you might struggle so it's read and react to what I am seeing.

 

Yeah I understand and I guess that's the correct way to do it. Unless you're really bad at reading the game as I do  That's why I always use it depending on the formation they use

[Dr Naysay]

2 hours ago, mikcheck said:

 

 

 

Yeah I understand and I guess that's the correct way to do it. Unless you're really bad at reading the game as I do  That's why I always use it depending on the formation they use

If I am playing a team I am expected to and am dominating in most metrics but am doing nothing shots/xg wise I'll wait till  the 20th minute mark and then incrementally change things.

Width, creativity, tempo, changing player roles and substitutes are all part of the process for me and for the most part those changes will change the game for me.

Defensive transitions is a whole different kettle of fish for me and where I will focus most of my energy but attacking wise it's all "do we look like we are going to win this game early or do I need to make changes now."

[mikcheck]

2 horas atrás, Dr Naysay disse:

If I am playing a team I am expected to and am dominating in most metrics but am doing nothing shots/xg wise I'll wait till  the 20th minute mark and then incrementally change things.

Width, creativity, tempo, changing player roles and substitutes are all part of the process for me and for the most part those changes will change the game for me.

Defensive transitions is a whole different kettle of fish for me and where I will focus most of my energy but attacking wise it's all "do we look like we are going to win this game early or do I need to make changes now."

Interesting. I know it really depends but what would you say it's the thing you change the most regarding the attacking aspect during the match? Do you ever change mentality for example? Because that changes a lot of things at  once.

What you said about the defensive transitions, what you really mean is that you also change it before the match begins (defensive line, low/mediu/high block, trigger press)?

Edited Friday at 15:08 by mikcheck

[Dr Naysay]

20 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Interesting. I know it really depends but what would you say it's the thing you change the most regarding the attacking aspect during the match? Do you ever change mentality for example? Because that changes a lot of things at  once.

What you said about the defensive transitions, what you really mean is that you also change it before the match begins (defensive line, low/mediu/high block, trigger press)?

I start every match with my default tactic and then react to what I am seeing. The two biggest changes earlier on will be width and tempo first. After that it's substitutions and then eventually it's giving the opposition defence  more to worry about by having more runners from deep. I might change my DM to a RPM, I might change the inverted fullback to a proper attacking fullback. Essentially I will want to change from a 3-2-5 rest defence to a 2-2-6 against stubborn inferior teams. I very very rarely change mentality.

Defensively the best thing I can do is to see where my attacking transitions are breaking down and try and stop those, because having a riskier tactic means turning the ball over in inopportune areas is the biggest threat. Against teams that present a legitimate threat defensively I might drop the defensive line, I might put an OI on a dangerous player or I might change a players role but I always start out the same against every team and react to what I am seeing. One area that I don't neglect is if I am able to change the dimensions of my pitch I will do so to suit my tactic. If I am playing a very high line, high pressing tactic I will lower the vertical dimensions because 10 meters less between my CBs and the goalie is really useful. I will do the converse if I am wanting to be a counter attacking team. You play 50% of your games at home so it makes sense to set your pitch out to help you as much as possible. Right now I am playing a possession based system with a very high line so I have set the pitch to 100 by 64 meters. This helps negates teams playing over the top against me but also allows me to play wider and stretch the field against stubborn defensive teams if I so desire.

[lilljons]

Fm mustermann on Youtube did an experiment on width and focus play. Go check hin out.