perpetua

June 4

@sidbets Yes. These were reflected in the last version of FM 2024 that was released.

June 3

11 hours ago, NoahTM said:

Ah see! I appreciate this explanation. Re the first point though, like my screenshot shows that player is not actually real he is a newgen. This surely means the folder containing newgen names needs to be update to have correct spellings?

Yildiz is a second name entered by the German and Norwegian research teams to be used for newgens. I suggest raising the issue with them. I suspect your physio has German or Norwegian nationality. All Turkish newgen names should be using the correct lettering.

June 2

Regarding the first issue, we deal with the incorrect letters in names if and when players play in Turkey. However there are a lot of players with Turkish names playing abroad and we don't necessarily have concrete information as to how their names should be. A player may indeed have the name Kilic or Kiliç or Kılıc or Kılıç. It's probably best not to make an assumption until we see him appear in the Turkish FA website.

For example Samet Akaydin's name is spelled this way but if I were to make an assumption, I would have assumed (incorrectly) his last name would be Akaydın.

Regarding the second issue. Turkish players are typically known by their first name. It's very rare for Turkish players to be known by their last name.

If a player happens to play at a club where more than one player shares the same name then they are known by their first and second name. If we added the first name as common name, then we could potentially end up with 3-4 players with the same name at the same club and it would be impossible to distinguish them from each other on the tactics board or in the match engine. So SI have coded for us a special rule where players' first name is shown unless the club happens to have two players with the same first name, in which case both players are shown by their first and second name.

April 16

He was called up and was capped for Norway.

Players who have declared/debuted for a nation other than Turkey after 15 June 2015 do not count as a Turkish national in the Turkish league.

Non-Foreign, or rather Domestic, player rule in Turkey requires that the player is eligible to play for Turkey. Those who made their choice prior to 15 June 2015 retained their rights to play as a domestic player but those who made such a choice after that date are not able to count as a domestic player.

So for example Emre Can, who debuted for Germany in September 2015, does not count as a domestic player in Turkey. Same for Kerem Demirbay who debuted for Germany in June 2017.

However Ilkay Gundogan, who debuted for Germany in October 2011, can play in Turkey as a domestic player.

If it's the case that he was able to play as a domestic player as an U21, despite having won full caps for Norway, this is a bug that needs to be remedied.

March 11

Thanks. Already reported and replied in the rhread above.

March 8

23 hours ago, GorkemSahin said:

On the other hand I also know that Szymanski used to play as a winger, and that Szymanski and Fred are not slower than 40 years old Pepe or 38 years old Bonucci at any distance, regardless of which attributes contribute to speed to what extend.

Your statement is predicated upon the assumption that these players are rated correctly.

40 year old Pepe's pace, for example, is 13.
Based on your argument, Szymanski should be rated higher. Perhaps 14 or 15.
If that's the case, where do we put a truly fast players like Yusuf Ozdemir or Baris Alper Yilmaz or Osayi-Samuel?
17-18-19?
Then what about players who are even faster?

In my opinion, there is an irrational desire not to rate any player with less than 10 for speed related attributes.

So who should be slow in this database?

Nobody?

If everyone is fast, then speed isn't a factor that makes a difference between teams, making speed an irrelevant attribute.

Suppose every player in the game had tackling of 10 or higher. Then every player can defend well. Even worse is if only very few players had tackling of 15 or higher. Then the entire population of footballers, regardless of position, are stuck in a 6 point range for tackling. Everyone can tackle at a similar level, making it meaningless to have someone who can tackle. Same goes for finishing, first touch, passing, decisions etc. etc. etc.

The game guide/manual has always indicated that even an attribute level of 1 is meant to represent a professional player who is weakest in this attribute. Key word here is professional. Not someone playing among friends in a five a side game on the weekends. So that player who has a 1 rating is meant to be miles better than the average person. It's the same with pace. Someone with pace = 1 is a slow professional player but is still an athlete who trains every single day. 10.5 is supposed to be about average speed while 20 is supposed to be extraordinary, once in a generation type of speed. So it makes no sense whatsoever to restrict attribute ratings to the 10-20 range like your argument suggests.

23 hours ago, GorkemSahin said:

They keep claiming that there was a formula given to them to calculate players' paces by statistics.

It's not a formula.

We are able to observe players' top speed as they display it in matches. Not every player displays their top speed in matches, in fact they show their top speed perhaps once a season.

Bundesliga publish these statistics and can be seen by anyone. Feel free to peruse those lists and see the differences between players.

After taking a look at these, I would suggest the following thought exercise. Is there any logical or empirical reason for us to believe that the slowest Bundesliga players should be faster than approximately 50% of the world's professional footballer population (assuming that speed is normally distributed - I would actually suggest that the distribution of attributes is half-normal, meaning that in theory there should be far more players with a 1 rating than a 20 rating).

So there is the challenge. How do you prove that the slowest Bundesliga player is faster than half of all professional footballers. Or if I am right and there are far more players in the world with a 1 rating than players with a 20 rating, then really how much better is Bonucci's 11 from the average player worldwide?

Here is a hint, Bundesliga 2 also publish players' top speeds. You'll notice that those are not very different than Bundesliga. That is, despite the decline in playing level the distribution of players' top speed doesn't change. There are plenty of players who have a top speed of 36 km/h in Bundesliga 2, just like Bundesliga. And the lowest outfield players run at approximately 30 km/h. Go down another level and perhaps you'll see a slight change in the distribution but not as drastic as what we see in the game database. So the assumption that Bonucci is faster than at least 50% of the footballer population that the Pace rating of 11 implies doesn't appear to have support in this instance. So why do we have this assumption in the database? I do not know.

March 8

3 hours ago, joeys said:

I mean - the whole profile of Sebastian Szymański is totally messed up and I have no idea how it got through the verification. And I don't care about his pace - this is horribly wrong and makes the researchers for Fener/Turkish league look bad, but I kinda understand the logic with balancing the attributes for central midfielders* and won't argue with that, but man - the rest? Like he might be the best Polish player ever to be included in the official db and it's so unfair, that I don't even know where to start.

*however he is not your stereotypical central midfielder as he started as a pacey winger with a very high motor and there is a lot of proof for that in previous databases (and verified by researchers for various teams/leagues)

I appreciate your comment.

What he has been at Fenerbahce is a second striker who takes good advantage of the space created for him by Dzeko. As a result, he has scored quite a few nice goals. Perhaps the Fenerbahce researcher is a bit optimistic on him but I don't really think he's too far off in terms of overall ability (ie. CA).

Attributes can always be rated differently through different eyes.

March 7

To further add to my last comments. We observe Turkish clubs in European competitions and how physically superior sides (think Northern European and Scandinavian especially) tend to give more trouble to Turkish teams because of their athleticism or physical size (in addition to their .

It's probably a useful exercise to make comparisons with how these sides are rated in comparison to players who are playing in Turkey. I suspect you'll come to the same conclusion with most of the Turkish research team that our players, for the most part, are rated quite fairly.

Similarly another useful exercise is to compare players who play different positions. After all, a player plays a specific position because of his attributes. Not because it was randomly decided that the player is a winger or a central midfielder.

As a general rule, and this is well established in academic articles, central midfielders tend to be the players with the lowest maximum speed. They are followed by central defenders who are second slowest. Then come strikers, then full-backs and finally the fastest players tend to be wingers on average.

We should hopefully see this in the game/database as well. It should be quite rare that a central midfielder or central defender has a higher top speed than an average or below average winger in the same league.

March 6

Regarding performances: Player performances fluctuate. This is built into the game with various factors such as tactical suitability, personal traits, injury likelihood, fitness to count a few. We rate player ability. Performance is an indicator of ability in the long run, but in the short run (a few weeks or months) performance is not necessarily a good indicator of ability. So while I appreciate that you may wish to see quick improvements or quick reductions of ability tied to performance of individuals, this does not necessarily work well with the rest of the game mechanics (such as the the transfer market or AI behaviour).

Regarding ratings of Krunic and some other players in other leagues. This is a choice by the researcher. If certain attributes are high, it means other attributes are low to compensate and vice versa. Do I think Krunic has that level of pace? No. But it is a choice made by his previous club's researcher which we should respect. I am sure you can identify many more players who should probably have a faster top speed than Krunic in other leagues but aren't rated that way. It is difficult to achieve that cross-border consistency mainly because different individuals rate players with their own interpretations and personal biases. This is not too distinct from different professional club scouts watching the same player and coming to different conclusions about the player's skills. This has always been the case.

We will, of course, take a good look at Krunic over the next few months and rate him to the best of our ability at the end of the season in preparation of the FM 25 database.

Cheers.

March 6

Keep in mind that a player's Pace is how fast he runs at full speed. So you can think of it as the speed at which he runs when he's sprinting.

Acceleration, on the other hand, is how fast he runs over short distances. So, for a midfielder or a player who plays in a more crowded area of the pitch, acceleration is a much more important attribute to have than pace.

So I would suggest thinking of speed not as a single attribute as defined by pace but rather something observed as a combination of attributes.

Acceleration is how quickly he reaches his top speed.
Agility is how quickly he is able to change direction without losing speed.
Balance is how well he is able to maintain his speed when changing direction.
Pace is the top speed at which he can travel.

Just because a player's top speed is not very high, doesn't mean he's ineffective. It basically means he's more likely to get beaten by a speedy player when caught in a lot of space. So based on what you describe it looks like the Fenerbahce researcher believes that Fenerbahce's midfield players are relatively weak when caught in lots of space while they are more effective in more crowded areas of the pitch.

So perhaps you may want to use a playing style that suits those kinds of players to get the best out of them.

March 5

On 03/03/2024 at 00:07, fmdirektor said:

I'm not sure I understand this answer.

It wasnt a retort to your report. It was a re-iteration of the issue and that clubs playing in the Turkish cup use the match rules relevant for the league in which they participate.

March 2

The Turkish Cup rules mimic league rules depending on which league competition the participant club plays.

February 29

If I recall correctly, the option to buy becomes an obligation when Besiktas avoid relegation from the Turkish Super League. So the purchase of the player should happen automatically in the game when Besiktas avoids relegation in the first season.

February 2

Hmm.

You are correct. Clubs should be ranked by goal difference when equal on points during the season.

The other tie breakers (head-to-head or multi team head-to-head) should apply at the end of the season.

January 31

Iron Gomis - ok

Mustapha Yatabare - he is registered to the Turkish FA as being born on 20.01.1986

Aytaç Kara - he is registered to the Turkish FA as being born on 22.03.1993

Junior Fernandes - ok

Thanks!

January 17

Arda Kurtulan currently has Albania and Northern Macedonia nationality added as well as his caps for the U21 teams of both nations.

I have changed the ordering of his nationalities so Albania is the first nationality, Northern Macedonia is second and Turkiye is third. Hopefully he will make more appropriate decisions in the game based on this.

January 9

Specific to the screenshots added.

1. Figueiredo does not have the ability to ever represent Turkey so he shouldn't gain citizenship/count as a domestic player any time before 3650 consecutive days spent in Turkey.

2. Valentin Rosier has played for France at the U21 level. At the time he played for France, he wasn't eligible to represent Turkey so he can never switch nationality to play for the Turkish national team. So he shouldn't gain citizenship/count as a domestic player any time before 3650 consecutive days spent in Turkey.

January 9

It works in reality as follows.

To become a Turkish citizen a player has to apply. To be eligible to apply for citizenship, the person has to have resided in Turkey for 5 consecutive years. So technically a player can apply for citizenship 5 years after arriving in Turkey.
Once the application is received, there is of course some processing time for the application and the person to gain citizenship.
The FA requires that a player can only play as a domestic player if:
- The player gains Turkish nationality and resides consecutively in Turkey for a further 5 years (so 10 consecutive years), the player can be registered as a domestic player in the following transfer window.
- The player is called up to the Turkish national team at any age level and represents Turkey, the player can be registered as a domestic player in the following transfer window.
It is technically possible for a player to get their citizenship fast tracked by decree of the Turkish Republic cabinet. This can even happen a day after the player arrives.
- However FIFA rules require a naturalized player to reside for at least five years in the nation they will represent.
- Since at least 5 years have to pass from the player's first arrival to represent Turkey, the citizenship by decree route for citizenship is irrelevant.
For the purposes of FM,
- If a player has played at least 5 seasons in Turkey, has not played at any age level for another nation and can immediately walk into the Turkish national team (the rule I requested is a CA of at least 140), then he receives citizenship.
- If the player has played at any age level for another nation or does not meet the CA requirement after 5 years in Turkey, the player doesn't gain citizenship. The text in the game for this player should probably be more informative than "awaiting paperwork".
- Specifically
  - if a player has played for another nation then "not eligible to play for Turkiye"
  - if a player doesn't meet the CA threshold then "awaiting callup from Turkiye"
  - Both players should then gain citizenship and be eligible to play as a domestic player after 10 years in Turkey.

December 3, 2023

On 22/11/2023 at 02:00, smythy_17 said:

I have started a similar save and am interested in how to manage this.

In terms of takeovers, are you able to confirm if a proposed takeover has a pre-determined outcome (ie. successful or not) from the moment it is first "in the media", or if this can change randomly as "negotiations" take place? I'm thinking that I can use regular autosaves and if I know the answer to this, I can potentially avert takeovers that might change the club vision that I like. I also if there is a timeline when takeover approaches will happen if they randomly occur/

Many thanks

The way we had requested this was that the new club owner would make a decision to continue the policy or to abandon it.

I am not aware of any instances where the policy continues after a change at the top, though that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Just that nobody has reported it.

This may certainly need some tweaking if abandonment of the policy happens every time. I'll log something regarding this and hopefully the developers can take a look under the hood.

December 1, 2023

We have set the region to correspond to the regional groupings that the Turkish FA uses to group clubs in regional divisions.

November 21, 2023

@pietonbambe

Thanks.

The scheduling issue, I defer to folks at SI who are better qualified to deal with it. You will probably need to provide a save game so they can figure out why the match was scheduled on 30/11/2023. This is something I have not observed before.

As I wrote in response to feedback provided by others:
1. Angelino's information is entered correctly in the database. I do not know why it is not appearing in the game and there is already a report for this.

2. Turkish cup details were announced too late to be reflected in the initial release of the game. This has already been reported and should hopefully be fixed in a future game update.

3. Galatasaray's first kit is red and yellow. If we set the third kit to also be red and yellow, the third kit will never be used in the game, leaving Galatasaray to use only 2 kits in the game.

Also, the kit that you posted has been declared as an alternate 2nd kit to the Turkish FA.

GALATASARAY A.Ş. - Kulüp Bilgileri TFF

The smart thing to do here, I think, would be to set the striped kit as a Champions League first kit instead so it can be used in the game. Again, until we saw how Galatasaray was going to use this kit, it was prudent not to reflect it as a kit that will never be used in the game.

As a final thought, it's probably useful to recognize that we often have to make choices and prioritize certain things when doing research given our deadlines. What you deem as carelessness is more often than not going to be errors which arise from a mismatch between when information is made public and when we have to deliver the data to be included with the game. Or perhaps we may simply prioritize functionality in game (for example Galatasaray's striped kit) rather than aestethics.

November 19, 2023

4 hours ago, Michael Sant said:

Sorry for the delay in coming back on this one. Is this still happening in the full release of the game?

Not happening in full release.

However I am seeing Turkish Super League clubs hold on to too many 20 and 21 year olds in the squad rather than loaning them out to lower divisions to gain experience.

I think the fact that clubs don't have to register U21 players is making them hold on to breakthrough/future prospects rather than sending them out to gain experience.

The same goes for unregistered players, they should probably be getting loaned out somewhere for free rather than just sitting around collecting dust and having their value go down due to not playing.

But perhaps this is a wider issue than just for the Turkish leagues since I'm also seeing foreign AI managed clubs holding on to players who could easily be getting much more playing time elsewhere.

For example Beşiktaş have 36 players in the senior team currently at the club, this should probably be no more than 30.

Fenerbahçe, on the other hand, has 42 players in the first team at the club. Again, this should probably be no more than 30.

November 17, 2023

On 15/11/2023 at 12:12, atknsvndk said:

Hello perpetua, I found a bug in the game and the editor, I even took a screenshot and I would like to report it so that the problem can be solved.

Unfortunately this is beyond the scope of my knowledge of the pre-game editor. You're probably better off asking in the Editor's Hideaway.

November 17, 2023

30 minutes ago, burak700 said:

I was also able to sign Fatih Terim as a scout for Galatasaray. I'm quite enjoying it but it doesn't really seem realistic. Any chance of also checking that?

Looking at the values we entered in the database, this shouldn't be possible.

You may want to report this as a game bug rather than a database issue.

November 17, 2023

Thanks.

I don't believe this to be an issue.

The strategy to use only Turkish players is one that the current club owner imposes.

If he sells the club and departs, there is no reason to expect a new ownership will continue the strategy. They may, or they may not depending on their own preferences.

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Issue Comments posted by perpetua