Lord Rowell

Does it cost anything extra? Genuine question - I don't know the answer and until I saw your post I wasn't even aware it was on Microsoft Store.

So why not suggest some better ones if you think that's the case, rather than just criticising?

I do take a little comfort in the fact that the number of people who are so loud is actually relatively small. However, they do make a lot of disproportionate noise on the issues. I also am actually quite positive about the poll results. OK, 2/3 rds won't play (of those, many don't have an issue with women's football in FM), but 1/3rd WILL PLAY - that's actually quite a significant proportion.

It is isn't it? Of course, all because, in discussion, one person made an analogy about how trends etc. change over time. People then decided not to stick to the issue, but instead go after the analogy, when it was blindingly obvious what the person was getting at, however perfect / imperfect the analogy was.

I understand that. But I do think its a great shame it was dropped from the PC version. I hope once SI have navigated the move to Unity, that they might consider re-introducing FM Touch for PC players.

Except that SI clearly explained the reason for the temporary removal of international management (international football still exists), which has nothing to do with the addition of women's football. So, you don't need another option to vote.

Except you're neglecting the fact that there was resistance to seat belt wearing being enforced by law. Over time, culture has changed. Similar for the ban on drink-driving in the UK, which many at the time considered to be another infringement on their civil liberties. Again, whether law or now, attitudes / culture have changed.

Seems a perfectly reasonable analogy to me. Extending this to things that people thought would never catch on / go mainstream, I could make a big big list. But for now, I'll stick with "email", "internet shopping for clothes", and "movies where people talk i.e. talking pictures".

Don't think so no. I'm sure ages back I looked for this myself, but I could only change by diving into the set piece creator. It would be great to be able to re-visit that feature whenever we like. That said, I just leave it to my set piece coach nowadays!

I think people had a right to point it out. Its not pointless, I disagree. FWIW if you've all seen my posts, I'm very comfortable with removing "weight" and I've made specific cases on this - see my posts/ The recent posts (which SI did not do) that 1/2 weights have been randomly generated, is genuinely informative - thank you for those individuals who added this knowledge . It was someone in this thread or another who added this info. It WAS not SI. If SI had put this info, the context could have been different. Alas, more bad communication from Miles Jacobsen. I don't like the use of the word "pointless". Its not for one or other to dismiss others issues in that way. Address issues with good arguments and language. But just saying "pointless" is dismissive and unpleasant.

I'm lowering my expectations of which leagues will be included, significantly below those of the OP, simply because they're starting the research base from scratch. I can't imagine how difficult this must be for the Women's football research lead to get all the info they need, presumably with a much smaller number of researchers - though I'm sure that will grow in time. I also wonder if they might be using different approaches - not sure how much real-life analytics data they have? Could they be using a data-based apprach to this? If so, that assists developing the database for the top leagues, but probably wouldn't be available for lower leagues? If its even close to the hopes of the OP, I think that would be a good start. This will take time. As for personal hopes, as long as I can play as Sunderland in the FA Women's Championship, that'll do me!

Most definitely yes and will likely be my first save on FM25.

I find it really interesting, in a depressing way, the amount of people on here who think they can speak for others re. lack of interest in women's football in FM, and women's football in general. To you all, how on earth would you know this? Oh and please don't reply with "the amount of disinterested comments here" - because I doubt the population who post here are a representative slice of the community. FWIW, my views on the whole development update so far: 1. Very excited for women's football coming to FM and it is the single major reason I will buy FM25 - a women's save will likely be my first one, esp. if I can play as Sunderland in the Women's Championship. 2. For context, I am a man, who has played FM / CM since about 1996, CM2 I think was my first one. 3. I predict more people will be playing women's leagues in FM than the doom mongers here predict, by quite some distance, and over time that will grow. 4. Obviously a shame international management not present for FM25 but I understand the rationale, and if it comes back stronger for FM26, that's a good long-term decision 5. Really great that SI now have the Premier League licensing, this alone would have been a major selling point for FM versions, in the same way the Bundesliga/German national team and the J-League has been - this seems to have been forgotten about 6. The removal of weight as a stat is no big deal to me personally, I suspect I understand the reasons which have been commented on in various places in this thread and I'm very comfortable with that. I think it was badly communicated by Miles Jacobsen though. 7. Appreciate the frustration some feel re. temporary removal of other features (shouts, versus mode, create a club) which leads me to point 8 8. Communications and expectations - did SI expect too much of their workforce in meeting the November 2025 release deadline? Should certain issues have been communicated much earlier to the fanbase? But, all in all, I think we're gaining much more than we're losing, and long-term its win-win. So I'm still very positive about FM25 and looking forward to destroying 1000s more hours of my life on it

Yeah I remember that view of his as well. To say I was singularly unimpressed with Miles Jacobsen's attitude would be somewhat of an understatment. I thought his attitude was frankly appalling at that time I'm glad he's changed his mind. I have much more respect for him now. Its ok to change your mind

I mean, I don't see why not, they've such absolute knowledge they're likely billionaires anyway. Perhaps Elon Musk is within our midst ... a secret FM'er

I'm going to make an educated guess as to a definite "no". The reason is, I think the two go together, as aspects of the graphics - things like facegen, ME visuals i.e. how women's bodies move in a different way to mens, intrinsically need a more powerful and flexible game enging i.e. Unity. Hence, I don't think there was a choice - women's football and a new game engine may well have had to be delivered synchronously.

Not only that, but many throughout feel the need to inform everyone that the vast majority don't care about it, won't play it and so on. Obviously these people have absolute knowledge... perhaps they could share the winning lottery numbers for the weekend?

Re. the bit I've emboldened, I find it incredible too. But its reality and the state of the world these days and I don't want a "game" to make it worse, lead to more online bullying and, the reality is, in some cases, destroy people's lives. As for club badges and player faces, I wouldn't want to play the game without them either - the difference is they're highly visual and in your face. To compare them with a weight stat which few people use or notice is not a good comparison of things

Wow, just wow. a. the stereotyping here b. as we see how women, women's football etc is spoken about on here, and I've seen in the past when people have posted about women's football as a future possibility in FM, how they've been swarmed on over with negativity, I'm not entirely surprised that women may not obviously self-identify here. So in short - nothing to support what you have written here.

I hear what you say but it'll be more of a target if we have actual weight data and fluctuation being shown, and it'll target individual humans. I disagree it takes away from the game, the weight stat is trivia, as is the height stat, it has zero impact on the ME. Attributes have the impact on the ME. I would not want a community-made mod to show weight as this would defeat the point and I presume SI will try to prevent that from being possible. Also, a little reflection on my own part, its not just women who are being body-shamed, nor is it only women who have anxiety etc. over their bodies, its an increasingly known issue among men, so maybe its a wise move to remove weight for both genders,

Yes you can. Just select the men-only leagues you want to play. Same as if in FM24 you don't want to play MLS, don't select it. Simples

I think that is the reasoning and yes it is sad, a reflection of our toxic social media and society sadly. Tbh you only have to look on these forums to see the negative comments about women's football and its inclusion in FM. I think just removing weight from the women's part of the game would make it more of a target and also I think SI want the game worlds to be as comparable as possible.

In terms of direct impact on the ME, it makes no difference. Only indirectly to Jumping reach. But of course, height doesn't fluctuate up and down, so no reason to remove it

Well at least someone got the Lord Rowell reference right On the actual issue, I would think online misogyny / trolling, weaponising women's weight against them, might be a significant risk and problem.

Attached and hopefully displayed (below) are the supposed quotes you posted and replied to. 2 and 3 (underlined ones) were not written by me (though I do support them as I referred to them in a reply). But really, not cool to misquote someone. Not ok to say its an accident either. Link to your post below - screencapture is mine. https://community.sports-interactive.com/forums/topic/586644-fm-25-development-update/?do=findComment&comment=14509456