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Everything posted by lied90
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Questioning the accuracy of post match analytics data
lied90 replied to lied90's topic in Football Manager General Discussion
That's a shame. -
I'm using the post match analytical data to evaluate how my team pass the ball, largely to see how using a TF and much more direct passing works in the engine. I've seen some passes from GK direct to my TF not being counted as a pass. Maybe it counts as a clearance, even if the "clearance" seem very intentional towards my TF? Example: Hedl receives a backwards pass from FB and launches it when Haaland approaches The ball almost lands on the head of Lucca Lucca flicks it to Moffi who scores. Another example in the same match: Backwards pass from CB to Hedl Ball goes straight to Lucca who wins the header This is from the analytics data post match with long successful passes by Heidl and headers won by Lucca. Two of the three headers in the black circle were the examples given. I also ticked unsuccessful long passes by Heidl just to check, but they didn't link with Luccas headers either. When using analytics data, it's like the ball just dropped from the clear blue sky onto Luccas head. In addition, the header from Lucca to Moffi didn't count as an assist, or key header, but it did count as a key pass (wtf?) I watch some matches on full highlights to evaluate, but it's too time consuming when trying to understand how something works over over a larger sample of matches. This all seems very inaccurate to me, has anyone else noticed things like this when using analytics data post match?
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Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread
lied90 replied to Kyle Brown's topic in Football Manager General Discussion
This is why I retrain box2box midfielders to CBs. Onana at CB takes the ball from defense, runs the entire length of the pitch and puts in crosses and trough balls -
FM 24 Route One Tactical Workshop
lied90 replied to DrChristopher's topic in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
I think in terms of results, route one works just fine. At a top level, the style has been mostly used by teams who just want to survive or get mid table. In a very good season they might just qualify for europa, like Burnley under Dyche by finishing 7th(?) and Stoke under Pulis who got to europe by being runner up in the FA cup. This also works in FM, Bournemouth S1: The big problem for me is how the style plays out during build up. I can't get anyone except the GK to consistently launch long balls for the TF to flick on or chest down. This is such an integral part of route one tactics, as we are supposed to just bypass the midfield and get it forward asap. It makes me feel like I'm not actually playing route one. -
In my experience, the only player who launches passes from my defense to our TF and use him as an outlet, is the GK when instructed to. These are the forward passes my CBs. High tempo, very direct, both BPD, both with tries long range passes trait. This is my GK in comparison. I replayed the match and changed roles to NCB. The passing was dramatically more direct but I watched every single long pass and every single pass from CB to striker was into space between the opposing CB and FB. Either that or to a winger that wandered more centrally. Again, GK for comparison. This works much much better, even if he gets confused which striker to pass to sometimes.
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FM 24 Route One Tactical Workshop
lied90 replied to DrChristopher's topic in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
I quit because it didn't look like the route one footbll i wanted, I didn't have any issue with the results. I got the sense that he was dissatisfied with the results, not the style on the pitch. -
I think it's already an issue if experienced FM players have to put their heads together in order to accomplish something as simple as a long ball from fullback to striker. It's a very basic concept, unlike complex passing patterns and fluid transitions. It's always good to ask to see if wiser managers know how to do something you don't, but in the case of long balls, it should be intuitive enough for anyone to recreate it close to real life.
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I've continued tweaking but I think I've come to the conclusion that with whatever combination of instructions and roles I've tried, fullbacks will not attempt diagonal long passes/crosses from certain zones. Fullbacks under Tony Pulis often passed diagonal long balls from zone 1,3,4,6,7,9 towards the tall strikers in their team. In FM, the fullbacks heavily prioritize passing it sideways/backwards to the CB or forwards to the winger when in possession in the mentioned zones. They rarely attempt deep crosses/long diagonals unless they are in the final two zones (13,15,16,18). Even in zone 10 and 12 they rarely happen in my experience. This is the pass/cross map against West Ham in a 3-0 win. The few long balls fullbacks attempt from deeper areas are passes into space when the striker moves between opposing CB and fullback. In this picture Kerkez has a lot of time on the ball. He has the cross early trait, very direct passing, high tempo, cross towards TF, hit early crosses etc. Whenever this happens in FM, I see the FB pass either toward the wing, or sideways to the DM or CB. Our TF is the big white guy towards the left corner of the picture. The volante(s) Alex Scott is fairly close, Solanke his partner striker is fairly close and angled towards him, and Sinistera our right winger is also close enough to fight for the second ball. Kerkez goes for the safe choice and passes it into the legs of Kluivert. In most cases there is nothing wrong with that. Kluivert is super fast and good 1v1 so he can make something happen. The big issue is that the FB almost always goes for this choice, when given clear instructions to get it towards our strikers.
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Refering to this thread: Thread I haven't reported anything before so advice me if I've done it wrong. Main issue: Fullbacks not attempting enough deep crosses/long balls/ diagonal long balls to strikers when given instructions/traits that indicate that such attempts should increase. Such as cross from deep, hit early crosses, lofted crosses, very direct passing, high tempo. I've only linked one match but I've tried with a lot of variations of fullback roles, PI's, TI's etc without success. The observation was shared among thread contributors, see thread. How to reproduce: Use TI's such as hit early crosses, direct passing and high tempo. Use PI's such as cross from deep. Add player trait "Crosses early". See from analytical data that few such passes/crosses are attempted or observe by watching the match. Selected times (when deep crosses/passes could be attempted, but wasnt): 02:18 17:05 18:08 19:51 28:38 30:45 37:20 38:50 56:10 60:10 67:05 67:25 83:55
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FM 24 Route One Tactical Workshop
lied90 replied to DrChristopher's topic in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Conquering Europe with a route one tactic would be much more unrealistic than the balance of the current ME. -
I appreciate the overall tactical advice, but I'd prefer to stick strictly to the topic of increasing deep crosses. This is the default tactic: FB (s) PI's: Cross from deep, dribble less, take more risks, cross more often. Added trait: Cross from deep Removed all other traits Crossing vs Everton: Only two crosses in total from my fullbacks, both from left fullback, both blocked and both high up the pitch. I then tested the same tactic with WB (d) (cross more often): Bournemouth vs Forest All byline crosses except from one by Kerkez, but not really deep either(?). I've also looked at the passes done by fullbacks, and none of them qualify as a deep cross.
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Question in title. Looking for suggestions. As can be seen when watching old Stoke matches under Tony Pulis, the fullbacks would launch very deep crosses towards their forwards almost instinctively with a very high frequency. I can't manage to recreate this, and I'm watching on full highlights to make sure I don't miss anything. When testing I've used a 442 DM formation, with a TF (a) suppoerted by a PF(s). Instead of launching it to my strikers, the fullbacks tend to just pass it to the wingers or to my central defenders. I've tested the following roles and instructions for my fullbacks: In possession TI's: Much more direct passing, Higher tempo, Hit early crosses. FB (S), Cross From Deep, Cross more frequently. Tried with both Take more, and take fewer risks. Tried with dribble less. FB (D), Cross more often (deep crosses+take fewer risks hardcoded) NFB (D), default PI's. FB (S) with added PI's seem optimal to me in theory, when observing I see very little difference (in terms of deep crosses). Things I've tried with the editor: Removing all traits. Adding Crosses from deep trait. Increased crossing, technique and vision attribute to 15. These changed yielded no visible results. Other observations: My fullback find my striker more often when my strikers roam wide.
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I'm not asking anyone to do tests, I'm asking if anyone has already done it. FM has a very large fan community so someone might have without me being aware. I'm looking for something that is not closed to us players. Sorry if I was not clear about this in the opening post. I never expected them to either, so that's fine.