Maldini's Heir
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Posts posted by Maldini's Heir
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On 09/01/2020 at 00:00, IanGould said:
After really enjoying FM19, I looked forward to playing the 2020 version. However, I must admit to getting a little frustrated with it now. Simply because, it seems that all I change, every tactic or style I try, either pre or during matches doesn't seem to make any difference !
I'd appreciate any comments back on this or perhaps other people have similar thoughts? After all is said and done, I very much want to get back to enjoying FM again if I can.
It’s so frustrating.
And it’s constant. Just constant disappointment.
The missed chances seem designed more to frustrate than anything. I’m hitting posts, having goals disallowed, missing shots from 5 yards out, shots cleared off the line.
There’s very few last minute equalisers or winners. It’s all last minute disappointments. They seem to take pleasure in letting my team score a last minute goal only to mock me when it’s disallowed.
People talk about probability but probability should deliver something positive, some hope. It’s all disappointment. Game after game.
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9 hours ago, optimusprimal82 said:
Not sure if you've seen this/might find it useful OP? Not sure if it's too much detail & hate plugging my own stuff but it's something I drew up for last years game to help a few friends out with exactly these sort of questions and it snowballed from there into a full blown thread (link also below). I've not played anywhere near as much of FM20 as I did 19 (mainly due to time) but a lot of the trigger points are still the same in 20 from the games I have played.... Hope it's of some help/you find a way in any case!
Thanks. Will check it out.
I also think, like real life, my players are the problem which is sort of a problem becuase I don’t tend to be too active on the transfer market.
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I know how much people love talking about my re-starts but the game hit me with 5 games in a row where I failed to score so I lost and went back to the very first game in the run.
On a re-start the problem went away. Scored in 3/5 games including 3:0 v Brescia when I had lost 1:0 (to Brescia, who are 17th) the first time.
I think this points to a mental problem in my Milan team (which in fairness is the exact same problem they have in real life). If my players miss chances they basically collapse into dribbling messes. I’ve tried countering this by being more re-assuring than critical in my team talks.
I think one of my biggest frustrations with this game is that they seem to have done too good a job of re-creating Milan in real life.....
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5 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:
Nobody said that you should use either a "defensive formation" or drop the mentality to "cautious" (or whichever). You completely missed the point @pheelf made.
I know that.
I was simply pointing out that that is what I find to be the most effective way of beating weaker teams and how much that sucks.....
Part of the reason I set up this thread was to see if I could inject some more fun into the game because at the moment I’m getting a lot 1:0s going either way.
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9 hours ago, pheelf said:
I understand what you're saying as it's counter intuitive to play on a lower mentality if trying to score and get back into a game.
When you make the change to a higher mentality do you also change your formation at the same time?
I ask as perhaps that might be a way of you getting what you want. If going very attacking that means that the ball is going to be played as quickly into the front line as possible with the most intense pressing high up the pitch. Therefore if you stick with the 4-4-2 and the opposition have gone with 3 at the back you are likely going to be outnumbered when the ball is played into your front line. Maybe in combination with the mentality change perhaps having 3 strikers and 3 attacking midfielders in those desperate situations might help as you would then have a load of players in the oppositions final third to try and overwhelm them. I'm not sure whether it will work but it's worth a try.
All the best
Yes I do. I usually move to 442 and then if I’m really desperate 325. But the more attacking I make my team the less attacking they become.....
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On 04/01/2020 at 00:27, Tiger666 said:
This message. I don't want them removed, they're on a shortlist for a reason. Why does this happen and how can I stop it?
This happens to me. I always go indefinite. it's not every player just the odd one so I just re-add them.
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14 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:
well I am completely with @pheelf and @rockpie adding that I have a balanced well suited tactic for my side and try to win games around with shouts (as @herne79 has suggested in an interesting experiment) there is much more to get from shouts. Also I try to change the game with substitutes. before that I was always watching complete match and looking for space opportunities to use and adjusted my tactic to use this space more cleverly, well I tried to do that as it proofed very difficult for me.
If you have a good balanced tactic for your games try to turn games with a good subsstitution and of course by motivating your players with good shouts. Sometimes that means shouting "stick together" for not getting behind or another goal before halftime and sometimes it means shouting "get creative" or "show some passion" to lift the presure you are under. It works pretty well if you have a solid tactic as a ground and it's much fun because you can do something actually.
Thanks for the tip about shouts. That's not something I'm doing at all so will give it a go.
Thanks everyone for your responses I do appreciate them. My posts are usually written tongue in cheek with an extra layer of drama so don't take it personally. From your responses I've learnt: try playing wider, be careful with mentalities and use shouts.
We'll see how I go. Back to the feedback thread to moan (joking).0 -
14 hours ago, pheelf said:
There is no single approach which will work to turn a game around against every opposition, every time. That is true in real football and also in FM.
I think you need to change your approach to the way you play the game. Stop thinking of mentality as a range between defensive football and attacking football. it's not, even though the game presents it as such (I covered this in my misconceptions when building tactics post).
Playing on a higher mentality doesn't mean that you will suddenly put the oppositions goal under siege and score goals. What it means is that you will play with more risk. Now that increased risk can actually work against your objective of breaking a defense down. Especially, if you are just aimlessly pumping the ball forward as soon as you win possession. How does that pull the opposition defenders out of position and give you the space your players need to attack?
What you want to achieve is to create QUALITY opportunities not simply increase the quantity of poor opportunities.
In response to your PS point:
How much effort does it take for you to take a screenshot (F12 in steam) of your tactics page and drag and drop the file into a post (or post it on a picture hosting site)? If you want help then you need to provide something for others to be able to analyze. Mentality and formation isn't enough to give meaningful advice as roles and duties and the players you are playing in those roles is just as important (speaks to another point I made in my misconceptions post...don't view things in isolation).
Btw...I don't know how old you are but giving an ultimatum to strangers on a forum isn't the best way to engage with them and ask for help, just so you know.
All the best
I do find playing more defensive formations against weaker teams is better.
But do you know what?
That sucks.When I'm losing and my adrenaline is pumping, I shouldn't think "now is the time to drop down to cautious.......". That's not how anything works.
I think the mentality thing is a failing of the game.
I'm sorry, regardless of whether or not it results in a goal, pushing more people forward and hitting more direct passes should pen the other team in the other half particularly if they're the weaker team.
When players do that we should be seeing goal mouth scrambles and last ditch tackles (excitement!) even if the opposition then breaks on the counter and scores the last minute winner. That is the sort of excitement and reality that the Match Engine is missing. People say the Match Engine is not an accurate representation of what's happening but a) that's not good enough in 2020 and b) whatever representation it is trying to show is not reflective of the tactics and commands.
We do have to play within the limitations of the game so I will probably revert to playing more cautious football against weaker teams. Fun.
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16 hours ago, rockpie said:
Whatever changes you make should make sense not just in terms of ... but also in terms of what you're seeing and how the opposition are playing against you.
Pretty sure I've suggested this to you before, but here's a thread I did on Making Good Decisions During Matches which might give you an idea / reminder of the kind of things you can look out for when it comes to changing a game:
But yeah it's about trying to notice things, use whatever highlight mode and camera angle works best for you to do that. At first, you might need to watch Comprehensive Highlights to get a feel for it, then move to Extended once you're more confident that you're spotting the right things, etc.
If all your attacks look congested / compressed into the middle of the pitch, where the opposition is easily defending -- this might suggest you need to Play Wider.
If your players are rushing passes or hoofing the ball upfield under no pressure and giving possession away even though the opposition are not pressing much, you might find more success with a Lower Tempo. The opposite could be true if your players seem to be dwelling on the ball too long and the opposition are using intense pressing, in that case a high tempo would help to beat their press.
Etc. Etc.
Thanks. I did take a look at this and it was helpful.
I think I probably need to try and go wider in some of the games where I'm not getting much traction.
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Does anyone have any advice for turning around a match when you’re losing or need a goal?
My games seem to go one of two ways: I take the lead and see out the game or I fall behind and struggle to come back.
I have three formations I use: 433, 451 and 442.
I usually play 433/balanced in home matches against weaker sides (although I’m finding I can’t even do that).
451/cautious is for away matches and the bigger teams.
442 is my formation for when I’m chasing goals.
I usually play with short passing and disciplined and then gradually speed up the tempo, give my players the chance to be more expressive and make passing more direct.
In the second half if I haven’t scored I’ll tell the players to hit early crosses and to pass into space and move up a mentality e.g. from balanced to attacking.
I find ultra attacking to be particularly useless. It seems to be a command specifically to do nothing. I’d be interested if anybody has had any luck with this mentality.
442 is my 80 minute tactic. Direct passing, lump it forward to a target man and goal poacher. Or sometimes I try a deep lying forward if I feel I need to drag the defence out.
Generally however I don’t have much luck turning matches around.
Any suggestions?
PS I don’t know how to upload tactics and I don’t really have much interested in learning how to so if you can’t work out what I’m doing wrong from the above I’ll probably just give up.
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8 hours ago, ryanlion28 said:
Because in general I have a hobby with following the game in 'minnow' nations and watching the game grow in them countries.
For Football Manager reasons, because like people above said, it's rarer, and there's plenty of threads where we can see world class French wonderkids.
It also shows an element to the game that's just another example of attention to detail from Football Manager, for me to see out of the blue a Rwandan wonderkid come through from a random Rwandan football league club is fascinating to me and shows that it's not always just about solely scouting Brazil/Argentina etc.
There's a reason most mega clubs have academies in most countries in the world
Sounds awesome. I might try this.
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6 hours ago, IrrelevantLion said:
It doesn't play any highlights of your attacks because your attacks obviously didn't produce anything significant. If you watch the whole game you will probably see your attacking play and maybe where it is going wrong
Thanks. I might check this out.
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6 hours ago, bleventozturk said:
Fwiw, we also see people complaining here time and again that sometimes the game just decides that they should lose, and no matter how many times they reload and try different tactics, they still lose, therefore concluding that a loss was predetermined at that point. I don't recall seeing this complaint for FM20 yet, but it happened so many times in previous versions. Either way there will be people complaining, and I don't blame them - it is a game after all and one player's expectation can be different than the other's.
Edit: wait a sec, Cristo69 above actually just complained about the so called 'scheduled loss', while also agreeing with Maldini's Heir's complaint, which are essentially contradicting each other. Go figure.
This is never a complaint of mine. I remember years ago I couldn't beat Juve in one of the FMs and I kept losing every time I re-started. I remember (to practice) re-starting a game about 20 times before I eventually won.
That was a thrill because it told me I was doing something wrong. Even that eventual win was probably more of a fluke so I re-started again just to confirm.
I hate the fact that one re-start with the exact same team, tactics and team talk is all it takes. It shows that it's not me, it's just bad luck or some other random event. For me that's much harder to accept.
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6 hours ago, bleventozturk said:
I was going to say something similar, but I did not want to bother somebody who is already frustrated
Like the moderator said above, to me it really sounds like that you just can't enjoy this game with all the randomness it has. Maybe it is just not your game mate. Just to put things in perspective, I would not be able to play this game if it was functioning up to your likings, based on everything that you have been writing, and I am sure there are others like me there.
In one of your posts you said something like 'it feels more like it is up to the players, and not up to my tactics'. I personally couldn't play/enjoy the game any other way, FWIW. The result of each game is random, and it should be. The soundness of your tactics and the quality of the players (and how players fit in to that tactic) affects the probability of success. Over the course of the year, the luck factor should even out. I just can't understand how somebody can win 5 games, then loose the 6th one, then reload and win, and complain. No offense.
Oh no the re-starts only happen after a build up of results. I can take a defeat or draw or whatever. It's just a run of games which seemed solely designed to wind me up (complete with all of those fabulous misses).
On the "control thing", I don't think it's too much to ask my players to vaguely follow what I'm telling them. I keep my instructions to the minimum. But just once it would be nice for my players to e.g. work the ball into the box v chipping it over the top for my striker to inevitably miss.
I would also say I've struggled more with FM20 than other FMs. I also can't play FIFA or PES anymore.....and I need a football game.....
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6 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:
Absolutely no-one said that. What was explained to you was that just because you set up to attack down the left doesn't mean your team won't attack down the other side.
I was clearly exaggerating (quadruple bluff???)
Like I said, I'm a man of simple needs. When I tell my team to attack down the left I would be bowled over if they actually did!
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16 minutes ago, KUBI said:
If man marking means "he will never score" ok, but usually it also depends on who is man marking and there is always a chance that a man marked player is scoring. I think your main problem is that you can't bear the randomness in football, which is probably a bit different in the ME, but still it is there and you need to live with it. In FM you have at least the chance to wait for a new update.
I know all this. It would just be nice for once, for something I do, one tactic, to actually mean something.
It's like the time where I saw a weakness down the left when the other team got a man sent off so I switched to attacking down the left and then scored down the right. People on here tried to defend it by saying that the computer had quadruple bluffed me - ah so because you wanted your team to attack down the left that created space down the right so....they attacked down the right.....where the other team had players.....ah but they didn't because.....it's exhausting.
Why can't I set my team to attack down the left, and then my team actually attacks down the left so I can get the direct satisfaction of my tactic actually working?
I keep my tactics so simple. I don't burden players with endless instructions. But it would be nice if the little things I do do at least got acknowledged.
I think my main issue is that I'm used to playing FIFA and PES where I can actually just take control of the team and force them to play the way I want. Whereas in FM I can't even ask my team to play down the left without them second and third guessing me. And then I go and spoil it all by re-starting which just re-enforces how random the whole thing is.
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- Popular Post
19 minutes ago, styluz05 said:Firstly I acknowledge their are some flaws with the ME.
However reading through some people's comments it's like they want a game you can plug a perfect tactic in and win every game... Sounds very boring.
FM 20 is definitely harder and I'm enjoying the challenge.
Feel like there are a group of people who play this game who just want the satisfaction of plugging a ready made tactic in and winning the lot. Where is the fun in that?
I think my main issue is that I feel there is zero connection between my tactics and the events on the pitch.
Whether I win, lose or draw, score or concede, it all feels the same - I’ve not had any input into the game.
For example I have a tactic where I play Cautious/Pass Short/Work the ball into the box, and my team just hits balls over the top for my striker to miss simple 1v1s. There’s no connection to my tactics. I don’t think I’ve seen my team once actually work the balk into the box. The instruction is meaningless.
When I’m losing and I go more attacking the very next scenes show the other team attacking. There’s no acknowledgement that I’ve switched to a more attacking formation.
When I set my players to man mark a player they leave him free. I know man marking doesn’t always work in real life but come on. Just a simple acknowledgment that that is the tactic would be nice.
I don’t even expect the tactic to work. But have the other player that I left free score. Punish me for taking the risk of man marking one player (Bonucci) and leaving another (De Ligt) free. But instead Bonucci scores.
It’s boring and incredibly unfulfilling and, you’re right, I should probably just give up. I will. Thank you for convincing me......18 -
1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:
You will never learn how to play this game properly with this approach. Why don't you channel this energy into studying why you are losing against a bottom four team? Maybe even post about it in the tactics forum for assistance. Mindlessly reloading the game then ranting because it's a different outcome is completely counter-productive.
Or just stop playing and do something else before it makes you ill. Either way, ranting about it on here solves nothing. You will get little sympathy from the community with your approach of 'reload until I win'.
No offence.
But I’m not mindlessly restarting. It doesn’t take multiple attempts at restarts. One restart. That is it.
The difference between winning and losing seems to come down to instances which are largely out of my hands. Bad luck (I hit the post a few times in my first game) and random reactions to team talks (in the first game the exact same team talks got minimum responses, the second game the responses were better).
Restarting actually tells me it’s them not me. It was just “one of those days”.
One thing I do need to learn is how to turnaround a game that I’m losing or when I need a goal. Becoming more attacking doesn’t make my team more attacking, dropping off seems to work better (and yes I know drop deep, draw them out blah blah blah but in real life when a team is dominating they don’t just suddenly drop back and become defensive to try and open up the other team).
And I just wish I had a feeling that my actions meant something. It would be nice if switching up to a more attacking formation produced an attacking play rather than cutting immediately to attacks from the other team. That’s just a wind up.
Win, lose or draw I feel my involvement in this game is minimal.
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Started a new save with the aim of not re-starting games. Made it 10 games until a run of - beat a top 4 team, lose to a bottom 4 team, in 5 games in a row caused me to blow my nut and re-start.
The thing that hurt the most, well the second most, was the fact that I was losing to 17th placed Cagliari/Brazil from 1970, and changed to a more attacking formation, and there was simply no acknowledgement. You know the one where you move to a more attacking formation and the very next scene is the other team attacking. It feels like the game is just saying fork you.
Anyway I lost 1:0, rage quit and re-started and......that's right......won 2:1.....It's just too hard knowing the simple fix in any game is to simply re-start. It will almost guarantee me a win. I think I've failed to win one re-start and I've re-started about 20 games. One hilarious thing I notice with re-starts is the exact same team talk produces different reactions. It shows that the game is really just a random result generator. A slightly more sophisticated version of a slot machine.
End of rant.
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12 hours ago, rp1966 said:
It's just the effect of probabilities playing out. Each pass attempt can work or fail; each time an attacker tries to beat a defender he can succeed or fail; each shot can be on target or off target; if it's on target it can be saved or be a goal.
There's are hundreds of such decision points throughout a game and every one has the chance to go one way or the other. The relative strengths of the players can mean for any event is more or less likely to go in your favour, but it will never be 100% the same each time.
Every game is unique - you do not play the same game again - it may be the same fixture, but it is not the same game.
EDIT:
A really simple example: FB plays a ball in to midfield; DM pumps ball forward to CF; CF takes on defender; CF shoots
For the probabilities I'm just going to throw a normal 6 sided die. 1-4 move succeeds 5-6 move fails - so there's a slight bias in the attacking teams favour
Game 1
FB plays a ball in to midfield 2 - success
DM pumps ball forward 4 - success
CF takes on defender 1 - success
CF shoots 4 - success
Game 2
FB plays a ball in to midfield 6 - failed move breaks down
Game 3
FB plays a ball in to midfield 3 - success
DM pumps ball forward 5 - failed move breaks down
Game 4
FB plays a ball in to midfield 4 - success
DM pumps ball forward 4 - success
CF takes on defender 2 - success
CF shoots 5 - forward misses
That's just really basic over 4 moves and only looks at one player's actions. Now imagine the effect of more subtle probabilities over a second-by-second generated game with all the complexity of player interactions - no game is ever going to be the same as another and if you do save scum you would expect to get a whole range of outcomes for any given fixture.
I get that it's about probability. The issue is that in four games in a row the probability was constantly delivering negative outcomes mostly to do with "bad luck" like hitting the post, missing open goals, ridiculous saves and disallowed goals (which seemed designed more to wind me up than anything). When I re-started the probability immediately delivered a positive outcome and, for once, an enjoyable match.
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20 minutes ago, Svenc said:
Topic aside, players oft tend to have a very interesting definition of "Yards of space"...
Pretty sure Rashidi has already (in his mind at least) updated his SIBOT for FM20 and could tell you plenty where you're going personally wrong. Four Matches on the bounce isn't purely bad luck anymore, not in-game, either way.
So what changed when I re-started?
Same tactics.
And just to wind me up I was asked about all the bad luck I was having in the tunnel.....
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Drew 0:0 with Parma after missing countless chances. My fourth game in a row with without scoring. Re-started. Same team, tactics and team talk. 5:2. Now putting the win aside, 5:2 is a lot more fun than 0:0. If only some of those goals had gone in in the first game. If only some of those goals had gone in in any of the four previous games.
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For the second time in just 3 seasons my keeper, Donnarumma, has been tackled. I’ve not got close to the AI’s goalkeeper in three seasons.
In the same game I’ve had a go disallowed (a volley into the top corner from the edge of the box for which apparently my striker was interfering with play).
The game ended 0:1 to the computer. Re-start. Win 1:0 with the exact same tactics, team and team talk. I guess I was unlucky. Again.
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2 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:
I've posted before that the effect of packed defences seems to nerf the effect of clear cut chances even if a defender is anywhere near the striker. In a prior save I manually went through and watched every CCC to see which resulted in goals. It was about 57% against top 6 teams and 11% against bottom 6 sides.
I suspect you are creating lots of chances that registered as CCC's but the game internally also registers as your player being under pressure as they aren't in enough "space" and therefore they miss.
It's interesting both me and janrzm are playing what are effectively support strikers who drop-deep with runners from deeper and are scoring freely.
For the longest time I was really close to quiting FM20 out of frustration as I was having exactly the same issues you are.
So the issue is graphics?
It looks like the player’s in tons of space but apparently are not?
I still find it odd given there are instances of missed 1v1s in space, hitting the post, goal mouth scrambles etc
Plus a re-start almost always produces a different result where my players remember how to score again.
It’s hardly satisfactory....
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Board Negotiations - Doubts
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted
There doesn’t seem to be much scope to negotiate anything in this game.
I’ve given up asking the board for anything.
And it’s not just boards. Transfer offers see mostly to be non-negotiable as well.
Now regardless of realism (and I’m not sure it’s realistic for a board to refuse to add one coach when you’ve got a 100m transfer budget) surely negotiation is also just about fun. And that seems to be severely lacking in this game.
This is just not a fun game. It basically just feels like you’re being bossed around by a computer.