Maldini's Heir
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Posts posted by Maldini's Heir
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13 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:
If only there was some sort of in-game editor available...
It's as comprehensive as I'd like it to be.
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43 minutes ago, jcp1417 said:
If you sign a loan manager, do you have to give them control over loans? i keep taking control, but then i get a message saying that my loan manager made a decision and when i go back to responsibilities, he has control again!
I tend to keep on top of wages and spend very little money on the transfer market....
Do I need to care about loans?
And what happens if I don't sign a loan manager and don't care about loans?0 -
5 hours ago, Daelh said:
You can edit pretty much everything. In your case, you can transfer the players back to where they came from for the same fee.
Can I switch it on after I have started a career.....
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6 hours ago, ChrisCo said:
I'm confessing, so as to find kindred souls who perhaps have the same issues as me...
So far on FM2020 I have struggled to stick to a save game for more than a season. I have switched between countless teams, sometimes the smallest thing will put me off and I lose interest, or rather decide starting as another club is a much more attractive prospect. I did a season as AZ Alkmaar and got put off by how weak we are in European Competition, I took Norwich to 10th in the Premier League but then Max Aarons won the Golden Boy and this made me write the whole save off as unrealistic...
This is not a criticism of the game, I recognise these are my own irrationalities!
I guess what i'm trying to ask... does anyone have any advice on how to perhaps to choose a team to start with, and stick with that save?
I completely understand this.
The smallest things do put people off which is why I think they should give us the ability to edit as we go. If you're not happy with a Golden Boy you should be able to change it....you should be able to do anything you want with your own game. It's nobody else's business if you cheat.
I am only now back just playing FM after years of playing PES and FIFA. What I used to do however was have FM on the in background to generate the seasons and then I'd play the matches in PES or FIFA. I'd bring it all together in an Excel spreadsheet.
It sounds like a lot of work but it was quite rough and ready. The best thing though was I had total control. I could just change whatever I liked. I regularly overruled things like Golden Ball awards because I decided that the wrong player won it. And only I can decide who I think would be an appropriate winner....You can still probably do this in your own head.
Another thing I did was work from real life statistics and set myself targets to encourage longevity. For example, I'd aim for my striker to match Piola's record of 274 Serie A goals or Buffon's record of 294 clean sheets, or matching Ferguson's records..... That then gives you something to play for.
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5 hours ago, Daelh said:
Turn on the in-game editor. Problem solved. I always have it turned on in case of game breaking stuff. If you can't handle only using the editor for this stuff, well, don't use it for stuff you will regret afterwards.
Can you use the in-game editor to stop things like take overs?
I thought once the game starts you can't edit much......0 -
It's definitely overkill.
We should be able to switch this stuff off. I don't care if it's not realistic. Sometimes realism is crushing.
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9 minutes ago, Quadrophenia88 said:
Is there anything you can do to improve the conversation rate? At the moment, I'm missing far more than I'm finishing -- don't want to over exaggerate but it really is starting to feel like it could be a bug rather than poor finishing?
I'm 4 seasons in to my current save and it's been a constant issue as well as previous saves I've had since beginning. I'm not talking about having a couple of CCC, i'm averaging like 7 or 8? Along with 25+ shots a game with my current save and averaging 1 or 2 goals a game.
Just lost a game on penalties on a cup with 42 shots, 19 on target and 8 CCC, drew 0-0.
I get this happens from time to time in real life but it seems to be happening to frequently in this game so is there anything I can do to improve this? My current striker has 17 finishing and 15 composure and plays in Scotland so I doubt it's a quality issue.
I regularly train chance conversation along with other attacking options, especially after a game like I've explained above.
Any suggestions to what I can do? Or is this even possibly a bug? I just don't understand how we're missing so many clear cut chances which in my understanding of the term is a chance where the player should be more likely to score than miss.
I was just about to ask this!
The game seems to have got the percentages wrong. I am actually getting a little bored watching my striker, Piatek, missing simple 1 v 1s and then my midfielder, Kessie, scoring from 30 yards out!
One thing I have found that helps a little is managing the very fragile ego of my striker, Piatek. If he misses a chance he literally melts away and cannot seem to function any more. So he'll either score early on and then go on to hit a hat trick (or 4 goals like he did in one game) or he'll miss and the game's over.
To counter this I find re-assuring him constantly improves things - a little.
"Hey mate, you were so unlucky WHEN YOU MISSED A FREE HEADER FROM 2 YARDS OUT YOU IDIOT".
Try and say the bit in lower case and keep the bit in caps in your head.
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14 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:
The coin toss analogy is also not a good one though. Coin tosses are independent Bernoulli trials, and obey binomial statistics. Which basically means the outcome of previous flips has no influence on the current flip. This is fundamentally different to fooball, or any complex system. I do not know how the game is programmed, so I do not know how events relate to each other. The existence of player body language implies that things that have happened in the past do influence the present though. That means we are not in a regime of independent trials, that outcome of previous events do influence current ones (and current events influence future ones). So the statistics most of us are familiar with go out of the window. At least when we are talking about the individual elements of chance that are embedded within the ME. Football is a complex system, and it exhibits chaotic behaviour. Which means you cannot predict the outcome based on the initial conditions. Which is essentially true here, when you think about it. We can see that small changes in the initial conditions (whatever the ME calculates to start a match) can lead to wildly different outcomes. This is the hallmark of chaotic systems, and why you see such vast chances in games.
What people are then conflating with this is the statistics where you compare the results of many replayed games. In this case, we do have independent trials and we can use the statistics we are all familiar with. Each time you replay a game, it is like flipping a coin. The previous times you replay the game have zero influence on the next time you do it (let's assume the user makes zero changes during the game, otherwise this is untrue). Then you can start thinking about the probability to win the game. However this is where you can really see the non-linear nature of football (in real life and in FM). You cannot access this probability before playing any game. It is not a deterministic system, in other words.
For example, go back to the coins. You know before tossing a fair coin you will get 50-50 heads and tails if you perform enough flips. This is because each trial is independent and you know what the probability of the outcome of each trial is. So before you even start flipping your coin 100 times, you can calculate the probability of any outcome, from 100 heads 0 tails to 0 heads 100 tails. It is deterministic (even if you cannot actually call the outcome of an individual flip). This is fundamentally different to what happens in football, and the same probabilistic logic you are familiar with simply does not apply. You can apply these methods to the results of matches, but it makes no sense to apply them to the individual matches themselves.
Yes.
I think we've got to the rub of it though so my rants were not a total waste of time!
The key is those incidents, particularly early in the game e.g. a miss by a striker, that then change the course of the whole game. If he scores, I go on and win. If he misses, his confidence drops, he can't score and it's much more difficult. I'm assuming these are still winnable (or not losable) games. There's something I could do to change the outcome.
Just to be clear, I'm not talking about a weaker team v a stronger team. Sure, I accept that ultimately if you choose a weaker team you accept that that team will lose matches and then the joy comes from not losing to the big teams and avoiding relegation.
I'm talking about stronger teams losing to weaker teams. If it was statistics alone then weaker teams would never win, so this is where all of the complexity of the game comes into it.
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14 hours ago, eencae said:
There can be huge variation in results after re-playing. When designing tactics, I sometimes play the same game again and again, seeing how the tactic can be tweaked and improved. In my mind I think that playing the same opposition helps to keep things more consistent during testing, but since there can be so much variation it is hard to see if the difference in results is caused by the inherent match engine randomness (which is to be expected and is welcomed) or by a change in the tactics.
Even if you play the re-play the match with the same tactics, the result can vary, but overall the results are what you would expect e.g. City will beat Burnley 9 times out of 10.
If you are playing as Burnley and keep re-playing until you get the 'lucky' win then it seems like it will spoil the game, but each to their own. We've all paid for the game and can play it how we wish to!
In fairness this is sort of what I'm doing (or at least a handy excuse!).
But these first few career modes are really just designed to test a few things out. I think my formation works because I can beat any team. It's just about getting some consistency and I think the key to that is being nicer to my players and switching it up occasionally.
I've made it to March! No re-starts since that Genoa game. If I get to the end of the season then I might be able to get build a decent career.
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I'm not sure if this is already a feature but it would be really useful if we could just edit the game any time we like rather than having to go into editor mode and re-start a career.
Ultimately it is a single player game and if you want to use edit to cheat you should be free to do that. You can cheat anyway by taking over other teams or re-starting, or simply editing before you start.
Editing would allow the player to fix things as they go along especially as FM loses some licenses.
After I started my career I noticed FM did not have a licence for Juve. I should therefore simply be able to edit that as I go along. Similarly on the rare occasions I might end up playing a Brazilian team e.g. in the World Club Cup, I should be able to edit it then.
FM has a phenomenal database of regens and youth players but again, nothing's perfect. We should be able to edit that.
We should also be able to edit other teams. Sometimes we might not be happy with a particular transfer or lack of a particular transfer. And we could fix this. We could update midway through a career to take account of real life transfers that occurred after we started.
If we get frustrated because the board won't build a new stadium - we just do it. Or we do it within the game. Whatever we want because it's our game.
I can't see any real downside. If we don't trust ourselves we could always switch the option off.
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13 hours ago, XaW said:
Not exactly, because there are some small random variation, and the game will respond differently to these things. So the start might be almost identical, but a player mistimes a tackle after 5 second and this time it's a freekick instead of winning the ball, or the player slightly mistimes the clearance and it goes out of play instead of to a team mate, after that the whole rest of the game is different. From there on this would NOT be the same, or even comparable at any rate. So all these small variations changes the game, and if I remember correctly, all this happens 30 times per second, so the number of different "realities" is enormous even after a few seconds. And big events in the game, such as yellow and red cards, referee decisions, or, most importantly, goals, will make the rest of the game very different. If a shot is 1 or 2 meters outside the post won't make much difference in how the rest of the game goes, but if it's goes inside the post for an early lead, then it makes a lot of difference because this impacts morale, and potentially even the tactics of both teams.
This is exactly it.
The games I have lost my striker, Piatek, would miss an early chance and then he'd lose it, and the team would lose it.
I have no other proper CF so if Piatek doesn't play well I'm in trouble. I use Rebic and Leao but they're not goalscorers.I'm now on my longest run without re-starts.
It's my 5th or 6th attempt at starting a career with Milan. I've saved the game just prior to the first game so I don't need to re-do all of the pre-season stuff each time. I then had this awesome start where Piatek scored 4 goals against Fiorentina and I won the first 3 games so I have saved there and then just went with it.
After a run of 3 games where I beat Fiorentina, Napoli and Lazio, I lost to Genoa and SPAL. Go figure. So I re-started at Genoa and have now continued from there and I've made it to the end of January. I have lost games but have kept my nerve and not re-started. And I've changed my approach to responding to defeats and dropped points. I don't lambaste my players. Just say "Hey guys, you were so unlucky today, no need to come into training tomorrow" (while I scream at the computer). I then hold my anger until the next win.
It's got me to 5th 4 points off the top.
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14 hours ago, Halofon said:
Ok, I understand all the things you say. But is there any kind of random number generator involved, please? Like I don't know - Player has passing 11that means with all given aspects his pass is calculated on scale from 8 to 12, and this number is random? If so, I get that every reloaded match is different. I guess there must be some degree of randomisation, right? Even if like 5 - 10 & of attrobutes range.
I get this. I never expect there to be anything else. That's why I think scripting discussions are such red herrings.
I don't know, but I guess, every game is winnable or, at least, not losable, if you are really good at the game. I assume someone has gone undefeated all season.
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14 hours ago, dREIS said:
If you don't discipline your players though they will come to believe that missing 30 chances is acceptable and not try harder. Potentially losing the dressing room because of your lax attitude to poor performance. By constantly restarting you want to win each "coin flip" by sheer luck rather than try to influence the game through making changes to win. Reminds me of those folks who want a second referendum.
I think it depends on the players.
With my Milan team it seems they are (quite realistically) lacking mental strength particularly Piatek who completely loses it if he misses a chance.
Therefore I'm finding the gently, gently approach is working. I will lambast them occasionally. But it's got to be used sparingly. I find the best time to do is after I've beaten a team but the performance hasn't been good.
I suppose like in real life. Telling your striker he's an idiot for missing 10 chances probably is not the best motivator. He got into the right positions and worked hard and just had an off day.
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23 minutes ago, Svenc said:
A match you were unfortunate to lose should be more likely a win the next time around.
Ah, now I think we found our explanation!
Yes, I was unfortunate to lose the match which drove my frustration and caused me to quit (in fairness it usually takes a few unlucky results in a row) and then I re-start and win.
So the thing I need to figure out is how to reduce the number of unlucky defeats. One thing I’ve done is not berated my players after they missed 30 chances.
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The thing about the deep striker is that it's just the sort of counter-intuitive thing that people need to bear in mind.
When people are desperate for goals the temptation is to put on lots of strikers and to push right up. But dropping deeper can sometimes be more effective both in real life and this game.
I also find starting with a defensive formation against weaker teams can be more effective. They've less chance of nipping goals and you draw them out.
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19 hours ago, rockpie said:
I made a thread on the Tactics & Training forum all about identifying what changes you can make during a game.
I never restart any game because I prefer trying to work out what's going on.
If it works, great. If it doesn't work, analyze even more and try something else next time.
This is a great thread by the way. Thanks for the tips.
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1 hour ago, AytchMan said:
Let me make one last try. Take the simplest example imaginable: flipping coins. I think we can all agree that flipping coins is both random and fair. Over the long haul, you're going to get extremely close to 50-50, right? Now. let's say you flip 100 times, call heads every time and get heads 54 times. That's a 54-46 win. Now you flip another 100 times and again call heads every time. But this time you lose -- it's 45-55. But how could you lose? You used the exact same strategy and the coin is exactly the same. As is the probabilistic mathematics. Well, that's the essence of FM, a long and involved series of (essentially) coin flips. Thus, a player in a given situation can make one decision one time and a completely different one the next. And the match can go in a completely different direction.
Let's just say it needs to do better than being a glorified coin toss.
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1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:
I don't know how many more times you need this explained to you.
It's been explained to me and I have thanked people for their explanations and have not sought out any more.....
Did I give the impression I needed any further explanations?
What part of:
It is what it is. It's mostly my fault for re-starting.
did people not get?
Was that too philosophical?
My posts are mostly rants since I lost a game, replayed it, and got a different result, and then had a go at myself (not the game - me) for re-starting.
I find that self-deprecation - like sarcasm - is something that gets lost in translation online.
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7 minutes ago, Svenc said:
If the game were to produce the same result on the first reload, that would be very suspect. That would mean it's likely not a Simulation of Football, a Sports settled in the finest of margins (and seconds of 90 minutes…), but pre-determinism.
I see what you're saying and I get this drive for "realism" but these fine margins should not be enough for me to lose to Parma after my striker misses numerous one v one chances and then to re-start and win, comfortably.
Football games will always struggle with getting the balance right between the elements the player controls and the elements that they don't.
The funny thing is when I see people complaining about scripting because the re-started the same game numerous times, I actually think that's a sign that they're doing something wrong. And that's a good thing in my view because it means there's something they can change.
PS The assumption is I'm doing something wrong because a better team is losing to a worse team. I usually accept defeats to better teams. It's losing two games in a row to relegation teams that grates. And yes that is exactly what happens to Milan in real life.
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4 hours ago, AytchMan said:
But how can this possibly be any fun?
Because it's more fun than watching Milan play in real life.
The only reason I play these games is to escape how terrible real life Milan are. I then have to deal with situations which are far worse than real life. The only thing I can think of that's worse than watching Milan play in real life is watching a computer generated Milan miss 30 chances in a game and lose.
I haven't got into a groove yet in the game so re-starts are more of a thing. I will eventually get to a stage (hopefully) where I will have this rule that re-starts cannot impact the overall results in the season. So re-starts will not determine whether or not I win titles or qualify for Europe.
I have tried playing without re-starts but it's almost unavoidable and therefore I'd never get through any careers.
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Thank you for your explanations.
One issue that has not really been addressed is why it only takes one re-start to achieve a different result.
I get that if two teams played each other 100 times, they would get different results. But in my experience I only need to re-start once to change a defeat into a victory. So the re-start tells me that I didn't actually do much wrong in the first game and it was just "one of those days" which is very frustrating.
I would be much more comforted if a re-start lead to the same result. It would tell me I had done something wrong.
I accept I'm a bad loser. I don't re-start every defeat. It usually when the game thinks I should accept three or four games in a row where I've had the worst luck imaginable, missed countless one v one's, and haven't scored any goals. It pushes me over the edge, I re-start and all that pain goes away.
It's quite clear the game is setting me up for a challenge whereby I have to use my man management skills to drag my players out of a slump. But when the slump arises after I've had 30 shots on goal it sort of feels a little forced.
It is what it is. It's mostly my fault for re-starting.
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This is just pointless.
For no reason, two defeats against Juve and Parma with countless one on one misses. Re-start. Play both games. A draw and a win.
The Parma game pushed me over the edge. Parma 1 chance, 1 goal, go down to 10 men, my players created 20 chances including missed 2 or 3 one v one's.
It's just so obvious. I knew I was going to lose after 60 minutes. I made subs but I knew it would make no difference.Re-start. Enter a new reality. Win the game.
The real lesson here is not to re-start because it shows up the game.
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I think of your list the main differences when I restart are goals changing games and luck.
For example, one of the most frustrating things is when I have "one of those games" where I have 30 shots on goal and end up losing. In fact I know when I have a large number of shots on goal that there's a good chance I'll lose because it's simming "one of those games". I then re-start out of frustration and I will inevitably score early on which will lead to a completely different result. So the key difference was getting that early goal.
I suppose the next question is, without re-starting, how do I intervene in "one of those games"?
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It's entirely a matter of perception.
You cannot cheat in a single player game and developers will never be able to cover off every scenario since each people have their own perspective.
What I tend to do is make up my own rules within games. For example, I've played games where there are not enough suspensions, so I suspend my players after 1 or 2 yellow cards.
If you think these signings are unrealistic then don't sign them.
The worst is when you do "cheat" and then it grates you the whole career. That's happened with me and re-starts.
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Loan Manager
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted
Oh.....it's a loan player managers not a bank loan manager.....
That makes so much more sense....
Ok, yes, I definitely don't need one of them. I hate loaning players. Loans are actually killing football because they move players around too much. Footballers stay a clubs less time than I used to work bar jobs. It's ridiculous.
Smaller squads and better reserve/youth/B leagues is the way to go.
I do loan players but I try and keep it quite targeted and if a player is not ready for the first team after 2 loans they're sold. They're either good enough or they're not.