Impacto
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Posts posted by Impacto
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11 hours ago, fivetwelvepony said:
I agree with everything you said except for the "do it for the fans" team talk. Maybe my players are jerks, but I don't think this has every worked for me. "Listened keenly" was about the best reaction I think I ever got.
It only works when playing a rival. Rivals are listed in the general club menu(just clarifying for newer players). For me it works great and it works every time.
5 hours ago, zyfon5 said:Just get good players and delegate most of the training and team talks to your assistant. Get good staff also if your club can afford it. Good tactics can affect your results for sure but better players will make you win more easily.
Nope. Don't ever delagate team talks to the assistant. You can do a far better job. If you don't want to bother, sure leave it to him, but know that it you're harming your chances of success if you do. For training I would have agreed... but a few days ago I found a training schedule that outperforms hugely the general training that the assistant provides. It's just 3 schedules that I pick depending on how many matches I have for a week and players are growing incredibly. I love it. Never leaving it to the ass man again. That being said, training is not that important in FM. I've done very well without ever bothering with it.
4 hours ago, petertr said:I asked about that on here, and SI staff said this absolutely does not happen. Only players can affect other players' personality.
Hm, interesting. I guess I could be wrong on that one, but I know for sure that staff personalities play a part in the newgen generation. And they also play a part in the staff reaching their potential too, just like the players. So in general it's better to have staff with good personalities.
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I forgot something before you start a game - If you want easy mode - disable player attribute masking. Then you can see the players perfectly without much need for scouting. The scouts will only tell you some hidden stuff from time to time, but when you see all the attributes it makes transfers really easy.
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Get good players on loan. Get free agents and sell players constantly to make money for facilities improvements and a decent wage bill. Focus on the cups as a tie against the big dogs brings a lot of money if you're below the Championship. Avoid crap players - poor personalities with low determination, low natural fitness, low work rate. Try and get players with professional, resolute or perfectionist personalities and have them mentor the young players. Get coaches with the same good personalities, it rubs off to the squad. Don't hesitate to sell youngsters for a a lot of profit with 40-50% sell on clauses. You can later sell those clauses for a lot of money.
That's the basic strategy. For this FM all you need to is pick gegenpressing and constantly shout in matches 'Demand More' and 'Get creative'. And wait. The results will come(for the most part). On FM 20 Wing backs and very strong. Use them well.
Also, perfect your team talks. 'Prove a point', 'pick up where you left off' or 'for the fans' when playing a rival. 'Don't get complacent' when winning by 1 or 2 goals at HT. 'Dissapointing' when drawing or losing(with cautious tone if you were the underdog).
Praise good training, criticize bad. Praise good form, criticize bad. When somebody is unhappy send the captain. If that fails, tell the player 'you're very influential and I value your presense bla bla' or something and most times he backs down(unless he hates you). If a player hates you - sell him as quick as possible. Keep an eye on Dynamics.
That's what I can think of, but there is probably more. It's a complex game, but when you learn it, it's not a challenge at all. All will come with experience.
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49 minutes ago, Pterinochilus said:
The logic behind having both "play out defence" and distributing to CBs and FB is to dominate possession and slowly build up attacks from behind. These things works very well in the tactics I use and the main problem is to get the that left sided central midfielder to contribute more efficiently. What I want him to do is to combine better with my DLP and initiate more forward passes in attack while at the same time having some defensive responsibilities. I am reluctant to change the role of my DLPs as he is always performing incredible well and changing the FW role into a DLPa made my striker score much less than as a PFa.
Just saw this so to add to my previous post - Try to give your CM 'take more risks', 'dribble more' (if he can), 'move into channels', 'shoot more often'(if he can) and like I said give him some positive traits to make him do what you want. You can also go to Analytics, Team, Passing and see 'Passing combinations'. This will show you where things go wrong in your setup(for the most part).
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Average ratings are a lie. Players get good avg. ratings when they score, assist or make key passes. But a player can play great in his role in the team and get 6.5 - 6.7 ratings. I recently went back to FM 20 for the sole purpose of training my tactical brain. My idea was to understand the game better and to generally clear up some things in my head. So in the last two days I've been watching more games on extended and even comprehensive highlights and I noticed that a lot of my players are doing exactly as they should. The team was overperforming, but the ratings were far from impressive for anybody that didn't score or assisted. So don't worry about average ratings, worry if the player is doing what you want him to do.
The tactic is set up very well, it's actually similar to the one I use the most currently. Generally, on this FM it's hard to involve the midfielders more. What you can try is to tick 'focus play throuth the middle' to increase the mentalities of the MFs a little bit. You can also try to use the attacking CM as a box-to-box. I find that role to overperform a bit. Then you can probably move the IW to attack to keep the same balanced duties. What you can also do is give your player in that role some positive personal traits to force him to be more involved. "arrives late in the box", "run with ball often" and etc.
I would also suggest to use 'overlap' on the right side to promote more bombing from the WB on the right side without increasing his duty. I think you can safely increase it to attack, but since you haven't done it, you probably have a good reason so this is a good way around it.
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8 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:
It doesn't though - all the file does, literally, is a slight change in player acceleration in the graphics engine for the game. That's it. It doesn't alter decision making or anything like that, because it can't, as the match engine itself (that does all the calculations, makes player decisions, etc) isn't editable.
Okay, then why are people so happy with such a small change? To the point that some tactics that didn't perform well before are now viable with it? I haven't tried it myself, those are just things I read. Some people going on winning streaks when before they struggled... how can such a change affect those things? I don't get it, really.
I was interested in trying it out tbh, but when I saw people winning with ease it killed my interest. I don't see the point in making the game easier, that gets boring quickly no matter how fun the ME seems.
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Damn, the Koren invasion is going strong!
While I agree that SI are complacent because there is no competition and that they are holding back, this right now seems like a a few angry teenagers being highly overreactive. I remember a while back something like this happened when there was some issue with the Chinese FM fans and they swarmed the game with bad reviews on steam. While I think you guys have a point, I don't think you're doing any good right now. Like I said, it looks like some angry teens are venting on the forum.
That being said, the fact that some random dude managed to fix some ME issues and SI can't fix it for a whole year is disturbing. Sure, you have to focus on the next game, but c'mon... don't tell me you can't do better. You can, you just don't have to. Like I said, no competition.
Here is the issue - the guys at SI don't feel like they are complacent. They think they are doing everything they can. It's not on purpose, they all love what they do and want the game to be better. But competition is the main driver for success and nothing can replace that. If there was competition this thread will not excist. It's a whole different energy. Think of it like this:
If you are sprinting by yourself, you're still sprinting, trying your hardest to reach top speed. But if you're sprinting with someone else and the winner gets $100 at the end, you're pushing way harder. You're giving your all. Again, you're still sprinting very hard with no competition, but it's just not the same intensity when there is. And it's the same in every other aspect of life and business.
So yeah, unless somebody decides to invest a ton of money and effort to do better or as good as SI, nothing will change much. So no point wasting energy guys, you're hurting yourself in the long run. Just my opinion.
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Those are some great suggestions!
I would like to expand a bit on suggestion #5 - the addition of overlapping CBs role. They recently added the Libero, which is great, but you can only use it centrally in a back 3. These days we see many teams use the wide CBs to create overloads.
Atalanta and Sheffield Utd use them to a great effect for example, but it's not possible to recreate those centre backs overlapping movements currently in the game. Things like traits such as 'Bring the ball out of defence' help, but it still doesn't recreate it well enough.
I think we should be allowed to have a role, similar to the Libero but available for the wide centre backs - lets just call it 'Overlapping Centre Back' for now. Or we should be able to instruct better the BPDs and have them go join the attack more consistently when the opportunity arrives with clear instructions how exactly to go forward.
For this to be successful though, we also need the option to instruct the midfielders to cover the void left by the overloading defender, or it should be done automatically when you use the proposed new role and a defensive or supporting minded midfielder in fron of the defence.
The new 'Overlapping Centre Back' should be able to take offensive positions centrally, sometimes even partner the strikers or push forward more closely to the touchline the way Sheffield do it sometimes, essentially becoming a pseudo wing back allowing the actual wing back to go more central.
I think we're going to see a lot more of those types of players as both Atalanta and Sheffield have been very successful in using them, so it makes sense to be able to use it in the game. The current options simply cannot do this at the moment.
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15 hours ago, 04texag said:
That looks good, but my goal is to get this working with out relying on a wingback of any type, or in that wb position. For the most part, my above tactics have all achieved this. With the right defenders, and the stays wide/close down less instructions, this works. The goals conceeded are not that great. My issue this season with these tactics has been around horribly inconsistent attacking play. That said, the tactics as I posted above have still been working well enough. I believe some of the issues surround team building in the PL in advanced years in FM20. I am thinking of doing a short term save using this tactic OUTSIDE england, at a mid to top level team.
From my small FM 20 experience, inconsistency in attack is just part of the game. I feel like top-top players like Ronaldo have been boosted to stand out more, while lesser players have been nerfed and perform sporadically. So most teams that you play with in game tend to be inconsistent going forward, unless you abuse the ME. Don't know how true this is, but that's my feeling at the moment.
The 3-4-3 with the adjustments from @04texag is solid. The Gaspirini recreation one from @SixPointer is also good, but again it was inconsistent going forward. In another save I used a variant of 4-4-2 invincibles by Ozil, again was good, but inconsistent going forward. And when I wanted to see how exactly overpowered the Gegenpress is, I did a save with a small nation and qualified for the Euros with ease, beating much bigger nations with a basic 4-3-3 Gegenpressing. And you know what? Going forward was still inconsistent. We just defended well and scored from set pieces.
From my experience it's not the tactic as much as lesser players generally being more inconsistent going forward in FM 20 compared to previous versions. Could be wrong, of course
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Look at what I just found... I don't remember ever seeing the AI using a variation of the 3-4-3 with no wingbacks.
I was shocked when I saw this report. Here is the manager:
As you can see, he likes possession, attacking football with lots of pressing. Sound familiar?
Interestingly, he's been in charge of this team for about 10 years and has kept them around 3rd and 4th place for that time. I love this stuff and had to share
P.S. Apologies for not finishing my testing of the 3-4-3 on FM 20. I just can't get into that game, sadly.
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On 27/07/2018 at 13:16, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:
I just want to highlight this little gem that I've never tried before until today. Like most people here, I've tried most of Ö-zil to the Arsenal! tactics and enjoy playing and learning from them. Recently I've trying and trying different stuff, hoping to settle on a save that keeps me interested long term. Long story short, after reading the recently released Pirlo thesis a thought came into my head. I want to play a save where I create a total football legacy! Normally, when I play Total Football in it's many forms, I use fairly decent sides and end up dominating soon after. It's really fun, but it gets boring after a while. So I opted for something else. An FM 18 journeyman save where I go to the different teams and countries and I make them bask in the glory of Total Football.
So, I booted up an old save as I didn't want to start a new game for the milionth time. The year is 2028 and I found myself a new club - A mid table team, now finding itself in relegation battle in the top tier of Polish football - FC Cracovia. Turns out it's the oldest Polish club!
Anyway, I wanted to make this team play beautiful, fluid football but ah... the players there can't really do that. Or so I thought. I remembered seeing this thread long ago and how Ozil was first introducing his style to Benfica. How he slowly turned the team into an absolute monster. I played around with a few tactics before I even pressed continue for the first time. The usual setup of Total Football requires really quality players to succeed. The 3-4-3 Diamond is the same. So I came back to this thread and adapted the tactic shown above to my team. Changed a few things, but not much. My little brain can't create stuff like this on it's own, so I'm really happy that this thread exists!
I did not expect this to play so damn well! It's brilliant as always from Ozil. I was lucky that the team was full of good attacking midfielders, capable of playing in the CM strata and having good technique, shots, passing and dribble(mostly 11s and 12s). I also had a perfect player able to perform the DLP duties. My striker was decent as well, very similar in style of play to Jimenez - fairly strong and fast, with a decent finish, but not exceptional. I even had perfectly set up players for the wings. I guess it was destiny...
I played 6 games today - 5 wins, 1 loss where we dominated so hard, 29 shots in the end for 10 for the opponent. The team hadn't even learned the tactic yet and we started winning games. Team was 3rd from the bottom when I joined, now we're 7th just before January where I can actually move some players around.
So what's so special about this tactic in particular, other than that that I just plug it and started winning? --The freaking width!! No joke, this plays like Man City, except the IWBs. It's crazy, I love how many chances the CMs get. There is constantly space, overloads everywhere, followed by quick switches of play to the opposite flank, one-twos, the DLF moving amazingly, and the CMs getting a ton of chances. They dribble, they pass, they shoot constantly. The wingers strech the play allowing them to do their thing. One time I had to play an opposite foot as the winger, he just casually cut inside perfectly recreating City's Sterling - Sane combo from 2 years ago. Madness. Funny thing is, I was watching the Wolves - City game on the side while playing this and I WAS SEEING SO MANY SIMILAR MOVEMENTS!! It's insane, it really is.
The IWBs provide so much stability in midfield, having the most possession every game is almost a certain. The way the team is set up, it doesn't press high and that is actually good considering the low quality of players. The wingers are on support in the MR strata so they help out a lot. The CMs go back as well, so the team is very solid defensively(as much a small team can be).
So yeah, all the usual concepts of Ozil's philosophy are there, it's just a bit more cautious and stable possession based tactic that happens to create magic on offence from time to time. Guys, if I ever become a manager in real life, I'm hiring Ö-zil to the Arsenal! as my assistant to make my tactics. I don't care if he wants to or not.
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9 hours ago, 04texag said:
One of the issues I'm having right now is trying to figure out which midfielder is best to play in which position, between the amc slot and the CMs guys. I have five guys who all are good enough, and trying to figure out what I really want out of the AMC and who would be best for it.
As I've been playing through pre season, I also have not been happy with us being a little to stale. So I've upped mentality to positive, and abandoned the very fluid, since fm 20 this really seems arbitrary (very frustrating). I've moved the wingers both to attack.
I am using Ilicic/Papu in the AMC role and it's working so far. They can easily go up front too if I need them. For the attacking CM role I use technical attacking players with a good pass and shot on them. Zielinski plays there for me atm. Sometimes Papu goes there too. For the more supporting CM role I use De Roon type of a player. Solid in defence, hard working with a good pass and if possible a decent shot.
I've discovered that using really good and fast attacking players in the Winger slots is better(so far). I still keep them on support with "get further forward" ticked on. Signed Ansu Fati and made him play on the right side. For his back up I have a youngster who is similar in skills. On the left I signed a pure pacey winger with a great cross. Both flanks now are looking really good now creating lots of chances.
I have to say the CF on Attack works way better for me. Now my striker is way more involved and dangerous. Started scoring more.
The only thing I find frustrating at the moment is closing out games. We go up 2 goals and control the game until the 70-80th minute, but then we collapse. When teams start pushing late in the game, we seem to have no answer. I am considering changing some roles late in the game to combat this.
The main thing that shows me a tactic is generally good is the youth team results. I keep an eye on them and so far mine are quite good. That tells me tactic overall is effective, I just need to find a way to make it more solid in defence when we need to hold a lead.
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5 hours ago, Tomor29 said:
I usually do not have any big problem to create some kind of winning tactic but this time I wanted to replicate some specific kind of football (mainly total football that I really like and admire) instead. I do not want to just win but mainly win in an exact way. It´s a pitty that it is hardly possible in this edition but I still really like the game and I am already looking for FM21 and its new additions.
Check out the 3-4-3 Cruiff thread from Ozil, one guy there posted a decent updated version of it on FM 20. I tested it for a bit and it played really well, winning a fair amount too. It's not FM 18 quality, but nothing on FM 20 can get that good anyway. it's as close to total football that FM 20 can get or at least the best one that I've seen/tried yet.
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1 hour ago, Gegenklaus said:
I might just go back to FM18 as that is the latest one I enjoyed the most. The Half Back is working correctly there, right?It does and I really liked it. I prefer DLP a bit more, but if you want your playmakers more advanced, the HB is a great option behind them for possession based systems.
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1 minute ago, Gegenklaus said:
I understand. Are we talking about the removal of "The Team Shape" as a tool to distribute individual player mentalities whereas now we only have duty and the overall mentality?
It's only part of it. It's hard to explain, at least for me. I'm sure you're aware of all the current ME issues. For me, It's just the way the game feels. I play FM 18 and FM 20 side to side at the moment and FM 20 feels a lot less fun when it comes to actually watching the games. Recreating real life tactics seems almost impossible. Don't get me wrong, as I've said before, as a standalone game FM 20 it's brilliant, I just feel it's ME is inferior to previous versions.
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8 minutes ago, Gegenklaus said:
What kind of overhaul are you guys thinking? And what is wrong with the current tactics creator (except that its hard decode the individual player mentality and so on)?
It's way too restrictive. On previous FMs you had a lot more freedom and a lot more styles of play were viable. You could make the team play exactly the way you want it to. On FM 20 that is much harder. There is a reason so many of us love FM 17 and FM 18.
25 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:Yup and unfortunately we don't know when this "overhaul" could come. I'm almost certain it's not going to be in FM21. It could be with FM22 or also not for another 5 versions.
Yeah, they just started with this ME. Judging by what SI has done in the past, I don't expect any major overhauls any time soon. I just hope the small refinements they make on this one improve things a lot.
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Very interesting. I got the itch to try it out and it does play well. I did this before your update, so here's my experience:
First, I changed the mentality to Positive. Balanced is too timid for my liking. I had too many draws initially with it. Then I played around with the pressing and maxed out the settings to try and get more possession. Not sure it improved things.
I also added stay wider to my BPDs as I found that it works great with the wide players pushing so high up. Did not think about making the defenders close down less though, that might solve some defensive issues. The midfield is loaded and presses enough, I think the defenders holding their positions more is sensible. I did not like how the Libero was staying so close to the DLP so I changed it back to a simple CD. It also gives me the option to use not so technical defenders. I honestly did not think of making the Libero hold his position, might try it out to see how it plays.
The Wingers are on support, but I added Get further forward, not sure it makes much difference. They are still key to any success with this tactic.
The DLP on support role is brilliant as always. I think it's my favorite role in FM 20. I make sure to use defensively sound players with good technique, passing and vision in addition to decent defensive attributes. What amazes me the most is how the DLP drops to the backline as the centre backs spread, it basically makes a back 4 sometimes that cover the wingers until they can catch up. On Offence I see him supporting the play well, sometimes finding the wide players in dangerous positions.
In front of him initially I tried the Mezzala - Carriero combo. It was alright, but recently I changed it to double CMs with one player getting offensive instructions and the other one is more of a supporting player. The instructions are the same as @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!'s in the first post. The main difference is that the more attacking CM makes more and better runs.
The AMC is hit and miss for me. Sometimes decides games, sometimes does nothing. Super inconsistant, but that's just the way it is on FM 20. I haven't tried to push him up as a striker, seems logical and I've done it in the past with great success.
The CFs just doesn't work for me in this FM. On FM 18 it's brilliant, here it just does nothing. Changed it to CF on attack and instantly we became more dangerous going forward. I don't care if I lose team fluidity here, as it appears to be just a meaningless label on FM 20.
Here are my questions, 04texag:
- Do you touch the team mentality at all? How about the pressing and LOE?
- Do you often dominate possession? I do most games, but sometimes we fall to below 50% which really annoys me
- Have you tried a Trequartista in the AMC role? How about as one of the strikers?
- Do you use BPD or just CD? In the first picture it was BPD, then in your update it was CD. I'm curious if it makes much difference.
- Are your wingers very good going forward with little defensive qualities, or more complete and balanced players? Have you tried both types of players and did one type stand out more?
- Is your striker scoring lots of goals as the CFs? If he does, can you please show me profile picture of his attributes and traits? I really struggle with this role.
Overall, it looks good, it plays good, but you need proper players. I had too many draws, but we did have chances in most games. The control in midfield is beautiful and chances come from different patterns, which I find rare on FM 20.
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47 minutes ago, sejo said:
What about the midfielders combination? Do you still use CAR + MEZ?
If you're asking me - yes. Both worked well with Freuler as the Mezzala scoring a few screamers and adding some assists.
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Here is something that I found out a while ago playing around with the in-game editor:
I was at a club, won every possible trophy multiple times and I was still only just a favorite personel, while some random players were icons. So i went to the in-game editor to see what was going on. Turns out, I was maxed out on 100 points, more than most of the people listed there, which was weird. If I am at the max points, then why am I not a legend? Then I saw a check box called "permanent". It was ticked off and I ticked it on. Then I was immidietely moved to the Legends list.
So I had to tick the box with the in-game editor to be recognised as a legend, even thought I had more favorite personnel points than most other people on the list. It seems like a bug to me.
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Yeah, it's a struggle. I think I want to try and implement this in FM 18. I wonder how it will look there. It could be amazing to play with, who knows.
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Bad news boys, the double Treq combo is not as good as I want it to be. It does work and it can still be viable in some cases, but for me it wasn't consistant enough.
Here is why it can work - the Trequartista is a "ball magnet" role, but since you don't have any playmakers in this system, you're only using 2 bms, which is the max recomended by people who are smarter than me and know how the game works. So you have 2 playmakers/strikers with lots of freedom do to their thing. They both look for space but in different aereas of the pitch. Because we're pressing high and our players have decent work rate, the double Treq is not lazy and actually helps the defence. The striker treq stays further up, but closes down when he needs to. The AMC treq actually drops deep and plays as any other midfielder in defence. Adding "close down" on every single position in the opposite instruction screen helps with that, but I feel it's a bit gaming the system. Also, make sure to turn that off for GKs, because I find that often both strikers go to press the goalie for no reason and leave spaces for the opponents to easily take.
Here is what goes wrong - basically I couldn't get both Gomez and Ilicic to perform together. It was always one or the other. And in some games both disapeared. The team soon dropped off form and I had to bail on it. There were some glipses of brilliance, but it's not consistant enough. Constant 6.5 ratings even when we win on one of the Treqs. A single treq though remains very good option. Some great goals were scored by players in those roles. I've had Gomez do Messi-esque dribbles, belters from distance and Muriel culred one in with his outside of the boot from 30 meters or something. Fun stuff, but doesn't win games often enough.
I went back to the original AMs role with TI instructions and it's good. Considering how hard it is to find a proper attacking role for Ilicic I think it's best to keep the Trequartista one for him instead of Gomez, but either way can work well.
Half way trough the season we're 3 points off the 4th spot and it's looking ropey. My manager is low on rep and some players still hate me, so that is contributing for the inconsistency. My biggest concern is the lack of interaction on the field between the top trio. Everything else seems to be good, but I rarely see them three combining together and when they do, well... the keeper saves. Zapata doesn't score enough so I am experimenting with more attacking roles for him.
So yeah, it's not overachieving or anything but it's more fun to watch and play with than anything else I've tried so far on FM 20.
Keep in mind that this is a very small sample size and I still have a half a season to finish. Even then, it's just one season with one team. Could be millions of reasons why something works or doesn't work and on this FM it's very hard to tell for me at least.
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3 hours ago, 04texag said:
I've been trying to recreate this tactic since I started playing FM in 2018, but I've never gotten it to work, until now... I think I finally have a pretty good representation of this tactic in my current Portsmouth save in FM 20. I've lost two close games, but otherwise, since adopting this, mid-season mind you, I've gone 5-2-1, including a massive win in the CL over Bayern Munich, 4-0. Below are some screenshots of the tactic, results, and a highlight clip of a wonderful team play goal. I'm happy to answer any questions about how I've adapated it, and how I do in-game adjustments based on the formations I'm playing against.
One thing you'll notice, is my holding DLP is on support duty. The sacrifice here is that he often drifts away from the midfield circle, but this change was necesary in order to get my team fluidity to Very Fluid, as I needed more support players.
Most of the PI's are taken from earlier in the thread from @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! 's actual adjustments.
Results have been great, we're playing some great ball, which is actually quite attractive to watch. Our two losses were away, and both had at least one set piece goal. Which of course, I had forgotten to update my set pieces on the tactic until after this point.
And finally, the team play goal, check out this beautiful play and team passing. You'll notice play goes through the DLP twice, then quickly moves through the middle and finishes with a great through ball.
Brilliant work! I'll try it out for sure as soon I'm done testing some other stuff on FM 20. On FM 18 I had great success with Ö-zil to the Arsenal!'s version, but it did take some tinkering to get it right iirc. Can you please do a more coprehensive update at some point? I would love to see how the whole season goes for you.
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29 minutes ago, skyline72 said:
Interesting to see 2 Treq in the same setup which by logic, shouldnt work at all.
It's FM 20, logic has no power here!
I am also really curious how is this double Treq experiment is going to go. I don't plan on making any further changes, unless something massively breaks and I just beat Pochettino's Napoli 3-1 with ease. Dominated possession, too. I will do an update at the end of the season with more info.
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So... I got a bit bored of my FM 18 save for no reason(happens to me a lot lol) and I decided to try something new on FM 20. I wanted to play tactics that I have never played before and use roles and positions that I haven't used in the past. I don't enjoy making my own tactics anymore, as I always end up with the same stuff that works, but it quickly bores me. So what I do now is basically experiment with other people's recreation of real world tactics like this one and this has improved my FM enjoyment massively. I also love what Atalanta are doing IRL, so this thread was perfect for me.
Aaanyway, I joined Atalanta and copied this setup. Overall it works, the team plays well and we do score goals. It's only been a few games but I like what I'm seeing. Does it play like real life Atalanta? Yeah, as much as FM allows it. But most importantly - it's fun!
I made a few changes, however, to fix some issues. Lets start from the back:
- I added the option to distribute to the CBs as I saw way too many times my goalie searching for the WBs. I don't want this. I want my WBs to play as Wingers when we have the ball and distributing to CBs seems to work better so far.
Note: If you want the defenders to play like Atalanta you HAVE to train them to Bring the ball out from defence! You also NEED the Ball-playing Centre backs to have good dribbling(11-12 minimum), or this will fail miserebly. Thankfully on FM 20 there are loads of such players and traits are very easy to train.
I had Palomino in the left sided BPD role. He got dispossesed so many times I went out and bought a new CB immidietely. He is great for the central CD role, but not for the side BPDs. Why? Because he can't dribble. He can run and he tries to, but can't keep the ball. Dribbling is key in addition to the defensive attributes of course.
What happens though when you get the right player? well, I just had my left sided BPD do a dazzling run from my own half to the opponents penalty box. That's what you get with a proper BPD. How usefull is it? it appears to be not that much, because FM can't use the advantage properly, but it is fun to watch for sure!
Also, you need a left footed player for the left BPD and right footed player for the right BPD. It might be obvious, but I have to mention it. Play a lesser player or train a midfielder to play there if you have to, but don't use a player with the opposite foot, because he will run in the centre of the pitch and create a mess.
- Papu Gomez is nothing like hismelf with AMCs, even with the added instructions, so I tried something crazy. First, I wanted to try out Enganche, as I've never used it, but it just doesn't make sense. I want him moving around searching for space, not keeping company of the opponent's DM. The only thing that seems appropriate is the good old Trequartista. But why is that crazy? Well, in front of him Ilicic is also a Trequartista! Wait, what? Two treqs, one team?! WTF? Let me explain.
First, I really wanted to play with a Treq, as I haven't done it since... FM 10 I think? And even then I remember vividly how Aguero sucked at it. From there on out I stayed away from the Trequartista. Recently though I saw a thread here on how awesome it is. I got intrigued! Then I saw someone here post that it worked for him and then I was sold.
I changed Duvan Zapata to CFs and Ilicic to Treq. First game - brace for Ilicic. Movement and attacking thread - superb. Then I started playing with the idea of making Papu the Treq, but what do i do with Ilicic then? There really is nothing that will work so well so I just put them both on the Treq role and... it works! They don't go in eachother's way, quite the opposite. The seek the open spaces, they dribble and shoot often, it's really fun to watch. Before the change Papu didn't have a single highlight in like 5 games. After the change he is a lot more like himself.
Note: Because of this, I had to do something to balance out the defensive side of the game. My solution was dropping the mentality on Positive. That doesn't change that much, it just lowers the mentalities very slightly and lowers the tempo a bit, which I wanted anyway. The rest of the team still plays the same.
But the key to make this work was to in the Opposition Instructions screen. There I added Close Down on every single position to counteract the Trequartista's lazyness. And boom - now we are chasing balls like pitbulls!
Keep in mind that with CFs and a Treq up front, Duvan is the one that drops deeper to help defence, while Ilicic stays further up and only presses their defenders. Papu, however still drops deeper and performs his midfield duties. So, surprisingly the Trequartista role performs slighly different in the AMC and ST strata. Very interesting. It could be just the players different attributes making them play slightly different, but I'll take what I can get.
What makes me the most happy about this tactic is that strikers are actually scoring goals! Wow, what a relief. It's so hard in this FM for them to be useful, but here it works(for now).
Random Notes: The WBs are key. A world class player here can make all the difference. If my back up wingback with 8 finishing can score braces then imagine what a beast of a player can do here. I also like how many assists my Mezzala provides. Could be just form, but so far it's looking good. The Carriero is not very impressive so far, but it could be just that De Roon hates me
Just as a general tip - make sure to train the players in the roles and duties they will play in the team. That maxes out familiarity and allows the tactic to play to it's best.
TL;DR - I added Distribute to CBs and made sure to train the BPDs to bring the ball out of defence. I also dropped the mentality to Positive and I use Ilicic AND Gomez az double Trequartista. I'm loving it so far!
Overall it plays well, wins games and it's fun to watch. Keep in mind that it's a very small sample size, but in FM you don't need that many games for a team to gel and see what works and what doesn't. It's definately more fun than anything else I've tried on FM 20. Thank you @SixPointer for making this!
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Will anyone be buying FM21?
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted
This thing has been there for years and it still hasn't been fixed. Another annoying thing was when the forwards would not pass to a player in a better position and shoot from bad angles that are very hard to score from. They fixed that in FM 18, but went backwards for FM 20 for some reason and now we have that issue again... No idea why.