Impacto
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Posts posted by Impacto
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2 hours ago, cudithekid94 said:
How alive its world feels (despite being pretty predictable based on teams reputation). I usually spend some time during season, and at the end of it, browsing the different competitions to see how teams are performing and who they sign.
Oh I love this. On every single save I check how Arsenal are doing, who they bought and sold, how the got on and etc. End the coolest part is, it's different every time. Sometimes they go into mediocrity, sometimes they win the league 2 times in a row. I love this part of the game.
What I love specifically about FM 20 is the option to remove fluff around matches. I can go through a lot more games now in the same amount of time, so that's a + for me.
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On 15/08/2020 at 20:42, goku4 said:
thank you very much for your replies. was very helpful. gonna try to tick both off. also if you want to build up the game from defence, and you already have dlp on the dmc spot, who would you your keeper want to pass? to the dlp, cb, fb or cb and fb? I had them on fb because in that one link you sent posted here, the guy with the 72 unbeatable games also had the gk delivery to the full backs. but I noticed that when the AI plays 4231 and marks my GK tends to just send it forward in nowhere's land
I personally prefer passing it to the CBs. Then they can make a decision how to proceed. I've used passing to the FBs and it worked before on previous games but it's not very realistic with the new rule about players in their own box. You can choose to pass to the DLP too and he will drop deeper to get the ball, but I think passing to the centre backs is just better. Then they can still find the DLP and if they do, chances are he will have a lot more space to do his thing.
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There will always be flaws in the Match Engine. Evert year is this one main thing, then they fix it and something else brakes. It's just the way it is, unfortunately.
The 1v1 stupidity, however, should never be allowed to happen in a game of this magnitude. NEVER! I don't know why it happened, but there is no excuse for that. There is testing phases for a reason. They corrected it a little but, but still It completely breaks the game. Like people above said, high pressing and attacking should be a risky strategy used by big teams. But because of the poor 1v1 conversion there is not much penalty to this. You can always NOT use this style of play, but come on, the game should not be that easy to exploit.
And the biggest issue of them all - when you win the league, the game is over. You are now a top team with a top reputation and the AI only geats weaker from this point. So it gets boring and you drop the save. There is a reason most saves with big teams last 2-3 seasons on average. There is almost no incentive to keep going.
There should be a penalty for winning too much. Players get complacent, they lose the hunger, teams figure out how to beat you and you're forced to find a new way to win. All these things are non existant in the game for the most part.
Since the AI is too limited to compete with the human manager, make things harder for us after we've had some success. You can't make the AI better? OK, I understand, people on low end PCs should be able to play too. Then make the human weaker. After you get to the top. You know the saying getting ot top is hard, but staying on top is even harder? Yeah that has to happen in FM. And then it's a whole new game. Now you win the league and you know it's going to be very hard to do it again. You'll have to be on top of your game.
Football is cyclical and no one is on top for too long. This should be in the game as well, or at least very hard to achieve. Then situations like this will not be an issue.
What do you guys think?
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It's quite easy actually. I normally get mine to the max in about a month or two. The key is to train the same tactic in all 3 slots. When the team learns it, you can add another one if you want. But the best way to do this is to keep it similar to the main one, make slight changes that you can use in-game when you need to. For example, in my second slot my tactic is pretty much the same, just with a bit lower mentality, pressing and line of engagement. I use it when I need to close out games and the team is too tired to press. I leave the training to the assistant and like I said, it goes to the max in one to two months.
Second key part is - train the players in the roles you're going to use them. Unlike previous FMs, where this did not matter and you could train a striker as a complete forward, but use him as a false 9 for example, here you HAVE TO train the players in the role they are going to play on matchday. This is the only way to have max familiarity. So make sure this is on point. I know it's limiting, but that is the way it is at the moment.
I hope this helps
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2 hours ago, gam945 said:
The formation in the Tactics section is the defensive shape. Now try to choose players roles and instructions that will lead to the shape being altered into a new one, and you will have a defensive (default) formation as well as an attacking formation. That's how I see it.
That is correct. But still, it should be stated in game, as far as I know the game does not tell you that.
I am in favour of having two tactical screens, offensive and defensive as in real life teams are in very different shape when they attack and when they defend. I don't see it happening soon though, as it will require quite a big change in how the game works.
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Praising a player is obviously not working properly in some instances. Just don't use it, simple. Praise players only for really good form or when they score 2+ goals or get 2+ assists in game. This way it almost never backfires. And to be fair, you don't even need to praise them at all. It does nothing, really. It only raises morale slightly if succesful, but most of the time when a player is in form and deserves a praise, he already has high morale anyway.
Also, never praise for any international stuff, first goal or appearence, it's flat out broken. Just don't do it, there is no need.
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Nope. Thight marking is useful when you have phisically strong players who will stick close to their opponents and 'bully' them with their physique. They need to have good marking and concentration in addition to that. I've never really found great use of it, but it can be good in some certain tactical set ups.
Get stuck in is a big no-no in my tactics. Not only does it rapidly increase the chances for red cards, it can cause injuries to your own players, tires them out more and also good team can exploit it, especially in the wide areas. If your full back commits to a tackle and is unsuccesful, he easily gets beaten and now the opposite winger has an a ton of space to work with. Not to mention how many stupid, unnecessary red cards you're going to get in the process.
Every single tactic I have played in FM for the last 10 years has been better without "Get stuck in". I just leave it unticked and don't bother. And you know what the result is? 1 to 2 red cards a season. I see so many content creators leaving it on and they wonder, "why is my striker two footing somebody for no reason?!" Get stuck plays a major part in that. Aggression and decisions play a part of course, but the biggest part is played by this little option.
Don't use it, even in PI, it does more damage than good. (in my opinion of course)
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Yeah that would be nice, even though most people play with sound off. It's weird not be able to adjust the game sound on the fly.
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Honestly I can't tell you. I played only 5 games to quickly test it and I barely saw any highlights for the opposition(played on key). But we never played agains the big boys, so who knows. I am having so much fun on FM 18 right now and I haven't played further on this one. Once I play some more I will do a full season update with more details.
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Alright, now that I finished a full season playing Total Football I want to quickly share my experience. First of all, IT'S AMAZING TO WATCH!! Serously, the movement, the passing, the goals are all amazing. Obviously at Valencia I have decent players, but still it's incredible.
When the team learned the tactic fully magic started to happen. Goals come from everywhere and because of the relentless pressing we scored quite a fair bit from counter attacks in addition to great build up goals. The IF on support I hated at first, but they grew on me. The stay a bit lower compared to IF on attack, but they help a lot in defence and are now way more focused on helping the team instead of just chasing goals. I mentioned the Mezzala not being very impressive in the beginning, that all changed soon after I posted. The Mezzala is key to our pressing and counter attacks, I am really glad I did not change it and gave it a chance.
Now I now why we don't have that much possession - we are just super effective going forward, no messing about. The team is very progressive and players are making runs all the time. The most impressive runner though is the box to box player. I used Coquelin as I said because he is undroppable for me. I'm loyal like that
With his 7 finishing he ended up scoring 10 goals this season, thanks to his great runs in the box. And he missed so many chances, too... Imagine if I had someone like Pogba? 20 goals minimum.
I was also very impressed with the False 9. Zaza is always a beast, as the DF last season he scored 30 goals in the league and had around 5 assits. This season, as the False 9 he had 27 goals in the league, with 16 assists in the league! Quite an improvement.
We scored 100 goals in the league and won it again, this time it was harder as Real Madrid brought Pogba and Kane to strenghten, but it was still not enough. To be fair, the AI as always gave up 4 games before the end... so annoying. I was pumped to see if we can actually do it again and then they just gave up and lost easy games... anyway, here is the table:
I was hoping for more of a challenge, but what can you do... I still had fun watching the team play. In the CL we lost to Monaco in the first knockout round. They ended up trashing PSG and are now in the final, so no regrets there. I think to win CL I am going to have to improve the squad, big teams overpower me at the moment outside of Spain and the team doesn't get going in those matches unfortunately. Speaking of the team, here are the numbers of the main guys:
Look how nicely the goals are spread. And the assists count is insane as well. I love it!
Here are some screens of Zaza, Vietto, Xadas, Soler and Le Coq:
I have to say I am very impressed. This tactic is an absolute MASTERPIECE and an incredible fun to play. Forget about the league win, I was probably going to win it anyway as I know how to keep my teams consistent, but the way the team played was so sexy.. I even watched the pointless games, normally I just instant result them, but with this tactic I want to see what my players have in store for me.
It's that good.
Nothing will ever beat the Invicibles tactic for me, but this one is a veeeery close second.
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Well, why don't you just create or follow a philosophy and carry it over every new FM edition? Like Total Football for example. You'll just have to make slight adjustments depending on your team and situation. And because every year the ME is a bit different, the results will vary. And I think that's a good thing. Not knowing that you're always going to achieve what you want in a save is key to actually playing it. This what I used to do before I decided to just try out real world tactcis and incorporate them into my saves.
On FM 08 I was always using a variation of 4-4-2 with mostly attacking elements. I always had a strong forward paired with a fast and technical one. On FM 10 onwards I favoured the 4-2-3-1 approach, with a number 10 being key and the striker always being pacey. It was direct system, not focused on possession, but on quick transitions and ball movement instead. I carried this all the way to FM 15 and I had great success, winning almost any trophies possible. I never even looked up any tactics, mine was working just fine.
Then I finally upgraded to FM 18. I fired up a save, did my usual tactic and I started winning most of my games with Arsenal, with Danny Welbeck and Theo Walcott playing like Ronaldo and Messi on each respective side. I knew I was gonna win the League and CL soon so I lost interest. And I realised I'm a bit bored seeing my teams play the same way year after year.
I tried different stuff after that on many saves and they mostly worked, but nothing was close to my favourite direct-attacking approach. One day I was searching for some fun, but not game breaking tactics to play. I found Ozil's threads and I've followed them ever since. I use the base of his tactics, because they make sense and they replicate very well the original real world ideas. I used the Wenger's Invincibles tactic when I want direct-approach. It works universally once you you understand it with many different teams, because the football concepts are sound. Now I use his Total Football, because in my save I have loads of technical players and I want to play sexy football. It plays very differently than my own tactics and I like that, because I get bored easily. I want to see and try different stuff.
So today I have 4 or 5 sounds concepts that I can use depending on what team I manage. I consider them Plug and Play because I can set them up in 2 minutes as I know exactly what I want with them. Some of them I created myself, some of them I looked up and perfected to suit the team and ME needs, some of them I didn't even touch and they work just fine. Not game-breaking, just fun.
TL;DR - Yes it is. How succesfull it will be depends on the ME, but if the basics are sound, it will work to an extend.
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I've noticed that on every edition of FM, players who have changed positions have quite a different set of attributes on the newer game. And that is completely normal, but in-game this is not possible. I think it should be, and this is how I think it can work. Let's say I have a winger who is not spectacular enough for me to use up front, but he has high team work and work rate and I want to make him a right back. If he does not have enough PA left to work with, however, even when he learns the position, his attributes will remain mostly the same. I don't think this relfects real life and the attribute changes of players on every new game shows it.
So my proposal is, when you train a player for a new position, redestribute some of his no longer needed attributes over time to the new ones he will need for the position. The game already does a pretty good job of recognising which those attributes are. But let's say the winger I spoke about has 5 tackling and 9 finishing. My proposal is in a nutshell, make it possible for him to lose some of his finishing that he does not need as much anymore and increase his much needed tackling for the new position by the same amount in relation to his CA. I think player learning a new position is more than just learning where to be on the pitch. Naturally if you start playing in a new position you will pick up new skills just by doing it over and over and will lose some by not using them. It's just the way it is and it would be nice to be in the game.
You can even go further, by making attributes more flexible in general and adjust them in relation to form and the league you play in. Again, showed by the changes on every new game. Just look at Sheffield United at FM 20 and at FM 18. The players are mostly the same but only in name.
I hope I explained it clear enough and I apologize if something like this has already been suggested.
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I found this little gem as I was rearanging some folders. I still remembered how shocked I was when it happened. Even posted it on reddit. This is on FM 18 btw and the Polish team got tycooned.
7k a week is quite the difference to his usual wage demands...
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I would argue this is a good thing. I had to force myself to switch tactics constantly to keep a save fresh...
I've never had to change a winning tactic because it stopped working. Most of the time it was because I needed some fresh stuff in the save. And I am not talking about game-breaking tactics either, just good, effective common sense tactics that play good football. I don't have much experience with FM 20, is this a new thing? Or is it just the old reputation adaptability at play here. As far as I know the AI does not adapt you your tactic, just to your reputation.
As far as plug and play, anyone can play however they want. I've used cheaty tactics to see how crazy the game can get. Hell, I even had a 20 year journeyman save with the op 3 strikers trying to see how much trophies I could win. I ended up instant resulting 90% of the seasons and to my surprise it was so much fun!
Getting a village striker with 10 finishing scoring hattricks agains PSG is amusing, can't lie.
I've won many leagues by doing my own tactics and now I am at the phase of just enjoying the game. Currently I enjoy testing out real world tactics and making them work in FM with different teams. It's so much fun when you get your team to play like peak Barcelona or Sacchi's Milan and I don't care if I made the tactic or not.
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Generally, I feel that the game is a bit too easy compared to prevoius versions. But then again, the game is more popular now than ever before. I personally have to set myself restrictions in order to make it interesting, but there are some instances where the game is challenging without that. The main issue is that the AI managers, especially the strong ones are not performing as they should. AI teams are too inconsistant and it's too easy for the human manager to beat them.
I remember how hard it was on FM 08 to get more than a few wins in a row even with a beast team. Now it's a lot easier once you learn how to talk to the team. Also, I feel like there needs to be some more randomness. I can 99% of the time win against bottom teams or against teams in CL outside of the top 6 leagues. This is not the case in RL.
Lastly, I hate it when I am in a thight spot on the last day of the season and the AI bottles it 9 times out of 10. It's like I have this magic advantage that I do not want. The wins need to feel earned, otherwise why do we even bother.
I understand that there needs to be a balance so that casuals and hardcore players can enjoy the game, and I think the balance right now is slightly off. Just my 2 cents.
That being said, this is still the best game ever made for me.
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Here you go:
This is how the tactic looks. This is pretty much the main squad.
I correct myself, we haven't actually conceded in the last 5 games with this tactic. The team hasn't even learned it yet.
The only PI in the whole team is for the AP:
The rest of tactic looks like this:
I hope it's all clear now.
Bear in mind, that I have only used this in 5 games, but I did like what I saw. No idea of how it will perform long term, but I really like the way the players on the wings move. I hope this helps
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I find no issues with BPD and DLP and I play mainly on FM 18, but that's for possession oriented tactics. Since you want to play on the counter, the DLP will slow things down and unless you want that, I suggest you pick a different role. I've never used a DLP in a counter attacking tactic as it makes no sense to me, but hey, every team is different. Just know that when you pick a playmaking role, the team will look to pass to the playmaker by default. Like someone said above me, they are "ball-magnets". Have you tried Secundo Volante? Box to Box also works really well with BWM.
If you really want that protection in front of the defence, however, try out CM on Defend. He stays deep and breaks up attacks, but will not offer much in attack. And if you don't like any of those options, you can always play CMs and customize it the way you want to.
The BPD tend to launch balls forward from time to time so they are fine. But again, I've used just normal CD in counter attacking tactics, because if I am playing this way, my team is not that good on the ball anyway. I hope this helps!
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This is my favorite tactic on FM 18! I remember being bored at work, scrolling through the forums and finding this thread. I was reading and coulnd't wait to get home and try it out. I've used it with many teams and it was a success with all of them except one - a relegation side in spain that had massive problems so I don't blame it on the tactic, I just forced it on them and it backfired. But overall, it's great and not game breaking, just fun to play with if you have the right players.
I also tried an inverted version with Roma, because my striker was lefty and it was great again.
The main weapon of this tactic is the WM. I am not on FM right now, but I have a screenshot here from another save using the standart version:
Just look at those numbers!! 20 goals and 26 assists from 38 games with 8.18 avg rating. This is ISNANE!
Obviously this player is really good for the Swedish league, but still those numbers are amazing. The WM plays very differently from a typical Winger. He lurks around and makes runs at the right time, and he is on the end of the crosses coming from the attacking leftback on the opposite side. He also recieves a lot of great passes from the WP, who cuts inside and sprays through balls to the WM constantly. A winger stays much wider and does not have the same impact in the box as the WM. This works on FM 20 as well and I will cover that in a moment.
I found that it doesn't matter which is the strongest foot of the AP. Right or Left works equally fine, as long as the player is a good playmaker in general. Just make sure the player here is a good finisher too. The WP, WM and AP get the best ratings. The CF as well if he is really good. The CMd gets low ratings most of the time because he is not involved offensivelly, but he is very important in defence. The CMs is as you would expect - solid box to box that supports the team in every phase. Defensively my teams have been a bit leaky, but we score loads so it evens out. The only changes I make in-game is to drop the defensive line deeper when we want to shut up shop.
This tactic works with small teams, too! I've tried it succesfully in the Irish league, Swedish league, the conference and Serie B. It's beautiful to watch. But be careful, it's not a plug and play. I tried it in a team that did not have the right players and it was a disaster.
Now onto FM 20
Recently I put it on and I decided to try it out with Milan just to see how it would work. I replicated everything that I could. For the new stuff I just used common sense. Made the team press moderately in a mid-block and and put counterpressing and counter attacks on. The player roles are the same, only the CMs I made a proper Box to Box.
I only played 5 games with it in won 4 of them I think. Buonaventura plays as the WM on the right and even though he is not natural in the position, he got a hat trick in the first game. Scored another one in the second game and did nothing in the last two. The WP was Hakan with the hard name - you know him, the turkish guy with good free kicks. He banged a few from range. The AP is some Pedro guy, good all rounder. He scored as well, but mostly from set pieces. The CFs did not get involved much in any of the games, this might need adjustment. Counter attacks were not there, we scored from build up most of the time. But that could be because of the opposition being super defensive.
The main difference from FM 18 is the possession. We are having 58-60% most games even away on FM 20, on FM 18 it was quite a bit lower . This is weird and again, it could be just the opposition. The defence also appears to be more solid. Barely conceded any chances in those games, one was against Lazio iirc. The other main difference is the wing backs involvement. Because they made them so dynamic this year, they are everywhere. Even the FBs gets involved a lot, that was not the case on FM 18. The attacking WB is a constant threat and got a few goals as well. He gets in the box quite a bit, I like it.
Overall I would say give this a shot! One day I will get bored with FM 18 and play this more and report on this with some seasons behind my back. But I think solid football concepts should be appliable on any FM, so this should work just fine with some little adjustments.
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Thank you for having me! I followed your threads for a while as well as this forum in general, and I got the itch to start posting.
I actually didn't build much, most of the team was already here and the board gives me no money to invest. When I won the league they rewarded me with 7 milion pounds...
After I sold my back up RB I raised the budget to around 11m which I spent to make Vietto a permanent signing. Xadas was super cheap - got him in the first season in addition to Maresic for whom I paid around 3m as he got 6 months remaining. I am also restricting myself to only get players who are recomended by the scouts, to make the game a bit harder. It's working so far!
I hear you about Xadas. I got him to play as an AP in the middle initially, but because Rodrigo was a flop on the right side I gave him a chance there and he took it. He was incredible and that is why I am still using him there. Surprisingly clinical with his finishing and heading in addition to his great dribbling and passing. I can't get a proper AMR at the moment as I still have no money to spend, but I see him as a part of the MF trio in the future. I've used him before in Arsenal and he was alright.
I played Soler deeper in the beginning too because he is such a great all rounder. In the end I dedcided that Parejo is better at that deeper role, better long shots and tackling, and as he gets older his speed and dribbling will go down, so DLP is perfect for him I think. Soler's attributes are as you would expect, a proper complete player and I see him as the perfect box to box in this system. I just can't drop Le Coq at the moment so he has to settle for the Mezzala role
I have to say this save has become quite interesting. The board are unsupportive, they just take dividents and give nothing. We have no money but we are playing amazing football. I can't give big wages so players will want to leave soon and I don't want to sell anyone as I love them all. Fun stuff!
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Oh, man... Another Masterpiece by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!
Like you, I still play FM 18 because I still enjoy it and I can't get into FM 20. I've followed your tactics for a while now, and they have made my FM experience so much more enjoyable. My favorite by far has been the Invicibles tactic, mainly because I am an Arsenal fan, but I just tried this one as I needed a bit of change in my Valencia save and I would like to share my experience so far.
Let me give you a little background first. I won the league in the second season using a modified version of Pep's Barca again by Ozil. I wanted to use some DF and it worked great with Zaza. After winning 14 in a row at the start the season it was easy to win as the AI just can't stay consistant. In the third season I wanted to change it up a bit to make it more interesting.
So just after 4 or 5 games of the season I switched it up. This is how the team looks now:
I removed 'Retain Possession' as I just hate it.
The team did not take much time learning it, as the system and most of the instructions are the same. But the way we played changed drastically!
Before the switch, most goals came from crosses to Zaza which he converted with ease. The other portion of goals were from piece of magic from Xadas, Vietto and set pieces. After the switch, goals come from everywhere. We score a bit less, and we create less chances overall, but the chances we create are easier to convert even if the game does not recognise it. Now the threat comes mainly from midfield.
The whole MF trio is just superb. The Move in the channels PI is making all the difference. I play Coquelin as the box to box and he gets into so many scoring situations and actually finishes some of them off! In fact, he is the reason I am even writing this
He was injured for a while and Soler was playing there and he was scoring every game. Those runs are magical!
The players on the wings suffer a bit more, but because they are all on support the whole team defends as a unit. We are a bit less stable, however, as removing the HB hurt us quite a bit in defence. We concede a bit more chances, but I feel this is more realistic. They also get a bit more tired, even though the pressing has not changed. For some reason though, we don't dominate possession as much as before, especially away. I don't know why and I can't be bothered to watch full games to see where the issue is and we are still winning so there is that
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I am also not very impressed with the Mezzala. Whoever plays there is the least impressive so far and I don't see them popping in great positions as the box to box one. Even the DLP gets more opportunities to score atm.
Overall though I have to say I am loving it so far. Le Coq is becoming a legend, bossing the midfield and scoring a bit with his 7 finishing lol. The team is playing as a unit, not so much reliant on individual class, but more on the team effort. And because I've never actually gotten Total Football to work the way I want to, this is really fun to play with right now.
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With his 7 finishing he ended up scoring 10 goals this season, thanks to his great runs in the box. And he missed so many chances, too... Imagine if I had someone like Pogba? 20 goals minimum.
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Arsene Wenger's Invincibles
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted · Edited by Impacto
Name fix and spelling
Alright I finished a season with it and... it's weird. The tactic is fine, we finished 2nd just behind Juventus and we were in contention until the last day. The problem is, it plays nothing like Wenger's invincibles. It's more like Simeone's Atletico tbh. There was no sexy football, the playmakers don't playmake at all and the striker barely does what he is supposed to. He playes as mobile target man at best. The WM is still great, Bonaventura got himself 15 goals, but he was the top goalscorer... for the whole season
It's sad boys, what can I say.
The positives are - we were rock solid in defence all season. Finished the season with just 19 goals conceded and 25 clean sheets. We were also on a massive 23 undefeated streak at one time and just two unlucky draws cost us the title.
Going forward though we were crap. Ended up with just 59 goals in the league. 6 or 7 of those were penalties. We scored a bit from long shots as well. But the pattern of the WP drifting inside and finding the WM with a defence splitting ball that was so awesome in FM 18 is non-existant. Never saw it once. The AP also doesn't do much. I barely touched the tactic whole season, I only gave some PIs to some players - roam and move into channels to the AP, get further forward to the WP and roam to the WM, but not much changed going forward. I briefly tried to press higher up, but it didn't feel right and I dropped it right back.
Here are some screens:
Good season anyway. Just not much fun to watch and totally different playing style to the FM 18 version of the tactic
The most unspectatular set of ratings I've ever seen from my teams
The unbeaten streak was a surprise. Not playing in Europe helped for sure.
Never in my life have I ever seen those two messages. Not what I expected for sure
Look at this... Kessie is MoM with just 29 completed passes.The team overall has below 400 for the whole game, while Atalanta have 700. Crazy.
Overall I am very surprised. The tactic is very different in it's current form from what is intended, but it's still a good tactic. If you ever wanted to play like Atletico Madrid, this is a great option
I am sure with some tweaks it can improve offensively and maybe with some better players. But yeah, it can't compare to the awesomness of this in FM 18.