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Miroslav Klose

georginho_juventusygr

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PMLF

PMLF

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0-2 says otherwise, Germany have had squads capable of winning in Klose's time so that's hardly a case for his defence.

That would be 0-1 as Ronaldo didn't play any game in 1994.

But I don't think any German squad since 2002 and perhaps bar the current one were as good as Brazil 2002 although Brazil also had a very easy road to the final.

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PMLF

PMLF

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Imagine if: :D

Klose wins the World Cup

Klose breaks Ronaldo's record

Klose scores twice in the final against Brazil, like Ronaldo did against Germany in 2002.

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PMLF

PMLF

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The stuff that dreams are made of.
Even better because it's in Brazil :D

It certainly won't happen but that would be so fabulous, the kind of thing people would still talk about in the next 100 years.

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kontermann

kontermann

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0-2 says otherwise, Germany have had squads capable of winning in Klose's time so that's hardly a case for his defence.

Germany were damn lucky to reach the 2002 final, this was the worst time of german football. People here still wonder how they did that. The players at that time were 95% mediocre. So 2002 cant be counted here.

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PaulHartman71

PaulHartman71

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To be fair to Klose, if he does do it he will have fully deserved that record. It's not like he scored his goals through a couple of hattricks against the small sides, he scored many goals against strong opponents.

He did score a hat-trick in the 8-0 against Saudi Arabia tbf

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PMLF

PMLF

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He did score a hat-trick in the 8-0 against Saudi Arabia tbf

Ronaldo scored twice vs Costa Rica and once vs China in 2002. It's impossible to score 15 goals in the World Cup without scoring some against minnows.

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PMLF

PMLF

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It's not too hard to check, most teams only play against two top opps at most in a WC, while the group stage is often full of easy games.

It's not only Ronaldo or Klose, any player would be the same case.

He is completely right though and all you can add is insulting him. Poor showing.

Thanks!

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PMLF

PMLF

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I didn't make this thread to compare Klose to Ronaldo. Klose wanders and scores. Ronaldo dribbled and scored. They are different.

Comparisons would be inevitable though, even though it's silly and not really relevant at all.

Klose doesn't need to be better than Ronaldo to score more just like Ronaldo wasn't better than Pelé and yet scored more than Pelé in the World Cup.

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Orzelek

Orzelek

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Just because Klose's career in general isn't as great as Ronaldo's, doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve the record.At the World Cup he has definetly been up there with the best of the best. the previous 3 tournaments he's either been topscorer or number 2 on the scoring list and in general he's always been awesome for Germany.

As for longevity- it's also an accomplishment. Not everyone can stay fit and in shape until they're 36. Ronaldo for instance wasn't known for his fitness in the later years of his career :p

And as for his lack of technique/dribling skills- so what? Lots of great strikers has had poor technical skills, but are still regarded among the greatest of the game. Gerd Müller barely (if ever) scored outside the penalty box and a major part of his goals may look lucky (Müller fell, the ball hit him and went in was a very common scenario in the 70's),but he's definetly one of the best strikers ever.

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Doc Gonzo

Doc Gonzo

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Ronaldo was taken to the World Cup when he was 17. Klose still played for a tiny amateur side and finished his apprenticeship to become a carpenter at the same age. Yet they have scored the same number of goals at WC. Under these circumstances Klose has had an unbelievable good career. In my opinion he fully deserves the record. If there was someone to blame it would be Ronaldo who should have scored more goals.

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Boltman

Boltman

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If there was someone to blame it would be Ronaldo who should have scored more goals.

Excellent point.

Ronny really should have looked after himself better. It is a bit of a crime he didn't make as much of his career as he really ought to have.

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JD nawrat

JD nawrat

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Yeah - silly Ronaldo giving himself all those knee injuries :D

His knee injuries obviously played a huge part in his downfall but I feel that despite the injuries, he probably wasn't doing enough to keep fit. He'd come back from injuries visibly heavier. No wonder he got so much stick at 2006, the man weighed a good 5 stone heavier than he had been 10 years prior.

Yeah the injuries can't be helped, but he'd probably have been able to prolong his career and lessen the effect of injuries (I imagine carrying all that weight and playing high intensity football like he did was not good for his knees either) had he kept himself fitter/healthier/slimmer.

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darren1983

darren1983

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His knee injuries obviously played a huge part in his downfall but I feel that despite the injuries, he probably wasn't doing enough to keep fit. He'd come back from injuries visibly heavier. No wonder he got so much stick at 2006, the man weighed a good 5 stone heavier than he had been 10 years prior.

Yeah the injuries can't be helped, but he'd probably have been able to prolong his career and lessen the effect of injuries (I imagine carrying all that weight and playing high intensity football like he did was not good for his knees either) had he kept himself fitter/healthier/slimmer.

In the latter part of his career I agree, he didn't help himself, but then you gotta ask, how motivated would you be after winning pretty much everything and spending years trying to recover from injuries?

However the injuries between 99-02 clearly had a massive impact.

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Pangaea

Pangaea

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And as for his lack of technique/dribling skills- so what? Lots of great strikers has had poor technical skills, but are still regarded among the greatest of the game. Gerd Müller barely (if ever) scored outside the penalty box and a major part of his goals may look lucky (Müller fell, the ball hit him and went in was a very common scenario in the 70's),but he's definetly one of the best strikers ever.

Interesting you should mention Müller because I was going to :D He has 14 goals WC goals, but only played in 2 World Cups (1970 and 1974). Have to wonder what kind of tally he would have if he had played in 3, never mind 4, World Cups. Why didn't he go in 66 and 78 btw? Age-wise it shouldn't have been that big of an issue really. Was still scoring too.

Another Müller will surely take the record from Klose, but not in this WC.

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Barry Cartman

Barry Cartman

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In the latter part of his career I agree, he didn't help himself, but then you gotta ask, how motivated would you be after winning pretty much everything and spending years trying to recover from injuries?

He hardly won anything in his career, certainly not at club level

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darren1983

darren1983

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He hardly won anything in his career, certainly not at club level

Whilst that is true, he did still win the Cup Winners Cup, UEFA cup, La Liga, as well as various cups in Brazil and Holland to go along with his 2 Copa America's (and one runner up) Silver medal at the Olympics, a Confederations Cup, 2 World Cups and a runners up medal. So yeah, club level not the best but with his international record (along with the amount of money he had earned already) it's not a shock if he found it hard to work as hard to get fully fit like he would have done 5-10 years before is it?

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PMLF

PMLF

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But he won it all with Brazil :cool: (bar the Olympics)

Ronaldo had Rivaldo, Roberto Carlos, Cafu and others playing alongside him. Surely Klose could have won everything for Germany if he had players of similar quality playing along with him.

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Svenc

Svenc

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Interesting you should mention Müller because I was going to :D He has 14 goals WC goals, but only played in 2 World Cups (1970 and 1974). Have to wonder what kind of tally he would have if he had played in 3, never mind 4, World Cups. Why didn't he go in 66 and 78 btw? Age-wise it shouldn't have been that big of an issue really. Was still scoring too.

There was tension in between the DFB and the team. Prior to the 1974 World Cup, there was a quasi strike over bonuses paid: The DFB still held the position that it's supposed to be an honour to play for your nation, whilst the up and coming generation of players (Hoeneß, Beckenbauer, Breitner, ...) was the first that truly saw the sports as a means to earn money too. They even threatened to not play at all. This being 1974, you've got to remember that completely unlike in England, professional football in Germany was a comparably recent thing, there wasn't a unified top flight until the 1960s, and for much of the last century, professional sports was being looked down upon, whilst the Olympic ideal was held in high regards. The Cup winners of 1954 were amateur in status.

Then there's the story that on the eve of celebrations after the final against Holland the DFB once again demonstrated likewise "archaic" behavior by not allowing the players' wives to attend the festivities. Shortly thereafter a couple of players resigned (not only Müller). Not sure about the WC 1978, as Müller was declining already by that time (made just 19 league appearences in the 78/79 season and moved to America). But according to some interviews he now regrets having resigned that early, and would have liked to compete in Euro 1976.

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Pangaea

Pangaea

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There was tension in between the DFB and the team. Prior to the 1974 World Cup, there was a quasi strike over bonuses paid: The DFB still held the position that it's supposed to be an honour to play for your nation, whilst the up and coming generation of players (Hoeneß, Beckenbauer, Breitner, ...) was the first that truly saw the sports as a means to earn money too. They even threatened to not play at all. This being 1974, you've got to remember that completely unlike in England, professional football in Germany was a comparably recent thing, there wasn't a unified top flight until the 1960s, and for much of the last century, professional sports was being looked down upon, whilst the Olympic ideal was held in high regards. The Cup winners of 1954 were amateur in status.

Then there's the story that on the eve of celebrations after the final against Holland the DFB once again demonstrated likewise "archaic" behavior by not allowing the players' wives to attend the festivities. Shortly thereafter a couple of players resigned (not only Müller). Not sure about the WC 1978, as Müller was declining already by that time (made just 19 league appearences in the 78/79 season and moved to America). But according to some interviews he now regrets having resigned that early, and would have liked to compete in Euro 1976.

Cheers :thup:

Since posting I read that Müller had retired from international football after the 1974 World Cup, but didn't know it was under such circumstances.

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Boltman

Boltman

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Yeah - silly Ronaldo giving himself all those knee injuries :D

Aye, Ronny's the only player to ever suffer an injury eh? He's not even the only mega-talented brazilian to shorten their own career through the total lack of a work-ethic.

Bloody idiotic post.

Of course the injuries had an effect, but he clearly wasn't trying particularly hard to recover fully, that's the criminal aspect. It's particularly pertinent to the comparisons with Klose, as while Klose's been fortunate not to suffer with injuries to the same degree, he's also a fantastic example of how a player can make the absolute most of their career by working damned hard and looking after themselves.

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