Football Manager TV: Tactics

[Neil Brock]

Seconds out, round three! For your next visit to the Football Manager TV studios, we have an in-depth video on Tactics.

 

[Rikulec]

I'm sorry, but I have to say it.

Oh ****.

[tyler16]

Looks like a reskin of what's already an overly complicated system with too many hidden knock-on effects and preset roles. Can't say I'm interested in pre-match tactical talks which will surely get tedious without providing much value.

No mention of the issues of horizontal compactness when defending or CB's failing to split wide in build-up despite numerous threads giving countless examples. How about more control of pressing and counter-pressing triggers and responsibilities? Feels like the game sees less of a focus on what's happening on the pitch with every new version, unfortunately.

[josh.hobbs]

First part of the video I thought it was nothing but a more clearly defined layout. Got a lot more excited as it went on though. Dynamic relationships on pitch is great, as is the extra analysis and strength and weakness on pitch information. Interested to see how the new roles work as well. 

[91427]

Disappointed that there are only 3 new PIs/TIs and none look hugely interesting (also wasn't a cm having the option to run wide with the ball in the game before?). Wanting a higher fluidity still means you have to play with a higher creative freedom for whatever reason. Pressing is still ridiculously basic. Was very impressed with previous videos but there's really not much to see in this one

[A.Pierfrancesco]

So basically a inverted winger is a Inside Forward into the ML/R spot. The mezzala is a kind of Box-To-Box with less defensive responsabilities but that will occupy the half space in the final third. I can not see the sense of having a Trequartista on the flanks, I've never seen one IRL. Giving the opportunity to underlap is quite intersting, especially when you use a winger and an IWB, the IWB will underlap the Winger dragging out a defender or offering a possible passing opportunity. Any news about some fixes on the role like the Half Back?  

[A.Pierfrancesco]

1 minute ago, 91427 said:

Disappointed that there are only 3 new PIs/TIs and none look hugely interesting (also wasn't a cm having the option to run wide with the ball in the game before?). Wanting a higher fluidity still means you have to play with a higher creative freedom for whatever reason. Pressing is still ridiculously basic. Was very impressed with previous videos but there's really not much to see in this one

In the previous games no central players have the possibility to run wide with the ball unless you teach him the "Run wide with the ball" PPM

[phnompenhandy]

The pre-match team talks and negotiations look exciting, but they must be implemented far more effectively than the imposed bi-annual team talks in FM17. Invariably when we're on the cusp of promotion and morale is high, I'm forced to give a team talk, somehow say the wrong thing and send out a squad of morose suicidals.

[Kcinnay]

Disappointing. No defensive width settings, no vertical compactness settings, no extra pressing settings, no clear distinction between zonal marking and man marking. Still no extra options to tweak creative freedom. I sincerely hope that a defensive forward now will be tracking back like an attacking midfielder, to achieve vertical compactness. I was hoping that we could set out how a wide midfielder in a midfield 4 would defend (tuck in centrally, very narrow, or stay wide). Underwhelming.

[Artin]

i've been playing a bit of PES recently while waiting for the new FM and i really like how you have can have two formations (each with different positions and roles) for attack and defense.

you can go crazy like on attack, have your central defenders as your two main strikers and on defend, have your striker as your central defender. sooo many different possibilities with this and i hope SI will implement something like this in future FMs.

[A.Pierfrancesco]

2 minutes ago, Kcinnay said:

Disappointing. No defensive width settings, no vertical compactness settings, no extra pressing settings, no clear distinction between zonal marking and man marking. Still no extra options to tweak creative freedom. I sincerely hope that a defensive forward now will be tracking back like an attacking midfielder, to achieve vertical compactness. I was hoping that we could set out how a wide midfielder in a midfield 4 would defend (tuck in centrally, very narrow, or stay wide). Underwhelming.

Be realistic, it is impossible to have a completely different game within a year. Moreover, the game will be much more complicated than before. I'm right with you about the pressing setting. You already have vertical settings using the team shape.

[irish kopite]

6 minutes ago, A.Pierfrancesco said:

So basically a inverted winger is a Inside Forward into the ML/R spot. The mezzala is a kind of Box-To-Box with less defensive responsabilities but that will occupy the half space in the final third. I can not see the sense of having a Trequartista on the flanks, I've never seen one IRL. Giving the opportunity to underlap is quite intersting, especially when you use a winger and an IWB, the IWB will underlap the Winger dragging out a defender or offering a possible passing opportunity. Any news about some fixes on the role like the Half Back?  

Hard to think of a Trequartista out wide currently playing. Two that I can think of from the past are John Barnes and John Robertson. Both had the freedom to either go down the line or cut inside so not exact examples. Robertson was definitely the playmaker in Forest's European Cup winning teams.

[mbabbs]

The new interface is good. New briefing looks interesting. New roles and the team\player instruction are a bonus.

But really disappointed overall. I suspect the tactical limitations of FM17 will carry over to FM18.

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by mbabbs

[kandersson]

New tactics screen looks very nice and user friendly but man I hate Team Shape...

[DorothyJMan]

4 minutes ago, irish kopite said:

Hard to think of a Trequartista out wide currently playing. Two that I can think of from the past are John Barnes and John Robertson. Both had the freedom to either go down the line or cut inside so not exact examples. Robertson was definitely the playmaker in Forest's European Cup winning teams.

Possibly Hazard's role at Chelsea?

[Kcinnay]

1 minute ago, A.Pierfrancesco said:

Be realistic, it is impossible to have a completely different game within a year. Moreover, the game will be much more complicated than before. I'm right with you about the pressing setting. You already have vertical settings using the team shape.

There are topics asking for stuff like that that are two years old. Those are no new requests. They wouldn't make the game more complicated. Weird concepts like fluidity make the game more complicated than it really is. Team shape defines vertical compactness, that's true, but it also defines creative freedom. Why? Be my guest. And that aside: a fluid team shape doesn't/(didn't?) make strikers fall back to midfield in the defensive phase, like some users want, like a lot of manager irl make them do.

[Wells]

I wouldn't really call that a tactical revamp just some new roles/instructions and some reskin. Disappointed

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Wells

[Scrench]

There are numerous very promising new additions, however i still feel let down. Almost every single thread in the tactics subforum for the last year ended with the agreement that the defensive side of the game must be overhauled, most importantly defensive width settings and pressing options. Sometimes I wonder if someone from SI even reads these threads.

Although I can see that they put a lot of effort into these new features (which are pretty good to be honest), but it's still underwhelming how the most basic problems within the tactical side of the game are still being ignored after so many time.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Scrench

[westy8chimp]

The skin looks nice - bit frustrating that they have split the pitch into those smaller boxes, but then not given us more options within those boxes. Maybe it's laying the ground for future development.

New roles are good. Underlap is good. More set piece settings is good.

A lot missing though. I need to watch at home with the volume to understand better... but as other users have said... the lack of change with pressing/close down option and generally lack of new defensive options is really disappointing.

[gunner86]

I'm a little underwhelmed with this, quite like the idea of the tactics meetings as this adds more realism, especially for the big matches.

Underlap could be handy, but a bit concerned that it appears if you want it on one side, you have to have it on the other. Meaning I can't have Kolasinac bulldozing through the middle while Bellerin hugs the line.

[A.Pierfrancesco]

Not more complicated in your point of view, but from the point of view of the programmers. It isn't a easy task. I know It isn't so good, but you can you man marking to let the striker to track back

[irish kopite]

9 minutes ago, DorothyJMan said:

Possibly Hazard's role at Chelsea?

Yes I can see that. Would maybe need to add roam from position if that's possible to make a world class winger the creative fulcrum of the team in a structured shape. He needs to be given total freedom. I would like to combine a player like that with a Raumdeuter on the other side. I hope to be able to turn this new wide Treq into a combination of a Treq/ Advanced Playmaker (wide). 

[headshothitman]

I really like it, a good improvement. I do agree with some comments RE pre match meetings - SI have to get it right otherwise we could be getting Morale Suicide before every game...

I'm guessing the Underlap feature would be really useful when playing against a Wide playing team?

[MHovel]

43 minutes ago, A.Pierfrancesco said:

In the previous games no central players have the possibility to run wide with the ball unless you teach him the "Run wide with the ball" PPM

This is not true! FM15:

Edited October 12, 2017 by MHovel

[Whatawaster95]

'Tactical Revamp' come on SI, it's nothing like a revamp. Some nice new features, small ones at that. Nothing close to a revamp!

[Atarin]

Not gonna lie, bit intimated by all the changes and other than Inverted Winger, which I'm very excited about, not sure I'm ever going to use the new Roles.

The pre-match player feedback on tactics and team selection is a very interesting introduction and has me both excited and dreading it. Another opportunity to lose the dressing room was the last thing I needed.

All in all a very interesting set of new options which will take most of us a good while to work our way through. I confidently predict that these forums will be ablaze with thread after thread about how impossible the new game is. So if that sort of thing irritates you it might be best to avoid this place for a while.

[A.Pierfrancesco]

5 minutes ago, MHovel said:

This is not true! FM15:

Oh I completely remove that. Lol

[Keyzer Soze]

14 minutes ago, gunner86 said:

I'm a little underwhelmed with this, quite like the idea of the tactics meetings as this adds more realism, especially for the big matches.

Underlap could be handy, but a bit concerned that it appears if you want it on one side, you have to have it on the other. Meaning I can't have Kolasinac bulldozing through the middle while Bellerin hugs the line.

+1

The underlap it's a cool addition, but i don't understand why they didn't take the opportunity to make the option separate, as for the overlap, for the right and left flank. Having to have the same option on both sides don't make any sense.

Love the "run wide with ball" for center midfield players. It's nice to have this option again.

The new roles, are good, but it seems that we are having atm to many specific roles. wouldn't be easy to have less specific roles, but with option to change them? For example, box-to-Box with options to change for the Carrillero? Or the Wingback with options to change to IWB?

The Tatic and players panels, seems only a cosmetic feature. Have to try it to see if it's good or bad.

The pre-match briefing, it's something that i don't really get. So, will our tactic change, according with the conversation we have? Or the familiarity of the tactic have some sort of boost if the talk goes well? Really curious to know how the talk will affect the tactic and the behavior of the players.

Finally, like the extra options in the set-pieces menu. 

 

[zigaliro]

Barely anything new :/

[MHovel]

5 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

The pre-match briefing, it's something that i don't really get. So, will our tactic change, according with the conversation we have? Or the familiarity of the tactic have some sort of boost if the talk goes well? Really curious to know how the talk will affect the tactic and the behavior of the players.

 

I think that after a while some of us (if not most) are going to let the AM to deal with the briefing, since the conversations are probably going to be repetitive (I might be wrong, just an assumption compared to the converstions we have to the press and we all let the AM to deal with that at the end).

[Dalglish]

Have to say, with the exception of the scouting vid, I'm feeling pretty underwhelmed with the new features.

The match engine video's really going to have to pull it out of the bag.

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Dalglish

[kandersson]

Looks like the Carrilero/Shuttler, especially if implemented with specific lateral movement, could provide new ways of covering attacking wingbacks in narrow formations so I'm particularly intrigued by this role.

[Mr U Rosler]

Does this mean we'll now have to successfully negotiate 3 click button tests without saying something wrong which would render our shiny new tactic useless?

Press Conference, Pre Match Tactics talk, Team Talk? 

Love it when my unbeaten run comes to an end against the team bottom of the table seemingly because I showed their manager support at a press conference.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Mr U Rosler

[Michael Zorc]

1 hour ago, Kcinnay said:

Disappointing. No defensive width settings, no vertical compactness settings, no extra pressing settings, no clear distinction between zonal marking and man marking. Still no extra options to tweak creative freedom. I sincerely hope that a defensive forward now will be tracking back like an attacking midfielder, to achieve vertical compactness. I was hoping that we could set out how a wide midfielder in a midfield 4 would defend (tuck in centrally, very narrow, or stay wide). Underwhelming.

This is exactly why I will now not be buying FM18.

Absolutely gutted. This will be the first version of FM/CM that I have never bought.

Now awaiting FM19. 

[MBarbaric]

tactics and AI squad building is most important thing in FM for me. Have to say that this doesn't encourage me buying the game second year in a row and the demo will have to pull off something spectacular to change this.

-reshaping UI is all good and fine by me, i don't mind fm16 interface though so nothing much here.

-prematch tactics talk is a great addition, looking forward to this

-underlapping runs is another great addition but why ruining it by connecting both flanks?

-new positions are fine addition. some of them more, some less, but really the highlight of the announcement in my opinion.

That being said, no mention of defensive phase is really disappointing and no way I am buying the game till that is sorted out. Remains to see the demo but overall, an underwhelming video. 

[Guest]

Going to need something special from the pre-match meeting to make that more than a ball-ache after a season or two of seeing all the text options & as other have mentioned a little disappointed by the apparent lack of new defensive instructions & touting a returning PI as new is EA poor, at least they didn’t mention the shirts.

I do like the cleaner look of the main tactics screen so a plus on that front & hopefully it’s adaptive to not leave wasted space on larger displays.

 

[Rashidi]

Let's break down these videos. SI have not done something this big to the game since the tactical creator was introduced. So this counts as an evolution of the game. SI have had a long term blueprint and its beginning to show. They have added modules which allow them to further enhance the playability and give them options for the future. And I think overall its a good move. Now let me break down what I have seen thus far.

Dynamics - I have to admit, this module is the one I am looking forward to the most, cos it has the potential to bust a few games wide open. And I can foresee that players who over achieve with big squads in lower league management are going to find it very hard to balance things around their low reputation. This module will have a big impact across a few other modules, and it adds another dimension to the game. This is certainly going to make it harder for me to do another Gloucester run to European domination in consecutive seasons. Hooray.

Scouting - Its apparent from the video that this is an entirely new approach, will it be possible for players like me to invite 500 trialists down to join me non league club? I doubt it. 

Tactics - Here we get into something interesting.

The first time I saw the tactical screen, my reaction was huh? I mean its the same right? The guy who wrote the script made me laugh, he mentioned that there are 2 panels, one for the squad and one for tactics, and made it sound like it was new. We have had those two panels since 2012.  So that video definitely didn't get off to a good start with me. I ignored what he was saying and started staring at the screen, and then it struck me. That grid on the right which we can open up now shows us a LOT of information at a glance:

Tactic
Vulnerabilities
Partnerships
Team Instructions
Tactical Familiarity
Tactical Intensity

There might be more, I'm sure of it, based on SI's track record for reveals.  For me thats a big win. For the last few seasons, we haven't had a graphical representation of which areas of the pitch are vulnerable and what may cause it. And it seems to me like this serves to address that. A couple of new roles and enhancements to certain roles were also mentioned. And this is a good change for players and for the AI. For players it makes them use roles that I have been customising for years like the Inverted Winger and the MidRaumdeuter, both these were created after looking for the perfect mix of attributes, player instructions and team instructions. When a player like me makes these kind of roles, its a disadvantage for the AI. So allowing for more roles allows the AI to use them too, which has a knock on effect of helping them build squads. With the changes to scouting this can only be a good thing. Naturally its early days yet, but I  am glad these new roles esp. the carrilero are coming, because it allows newer players the chance to use roles that they may not have otherwise thought of making for themselves. The only think I can hope for is that the AI starts using these roles more actively instead of  just using mentality and shape shifts.  For old school managers like me its a big shift.

Thing is whenever SI decide to go for evolution, its always a testing period for some players. Some of us may not be comfortable being torn out of our comfort zones, but I reckon that regardless of how this turns out, I reckon SI have provided themselves with a solid platform for the future. Now  bring out the beta so we can satiate our appetites :-)

 

[mbabbs]

Nothing about the 'Match Plans' tab. Wonder what that is for? A place for all the team tactics maybe?

Edited October 12, 2017 by mbabbs

[Dagenham_Dave]

The usual wave of negativity I see. For me, this looks very promising. The biggest evolution is the graphical representation of where  the weaknesses are in a tactic, taking into account positions and roles. As I create my own tactics rather than download them, this is massive. Good job. Along with the dynamics and scouting enhancements, this is the most I've looked forward to a new FM in years! 

[apvmoreira]

I don't see it too bad as some of your see it.

I've been asking for a while that the free kicks should  have direct and indirect as IRL and that is going to change a lot our view over set pieces, specially after the erasing of bugs in the previous editions of the game.

I've also dreamed that we would have 2 tactics, one for the offensive phase and one for the defensive but how would them connect? One of the major issues now days is the change from defensive to offensive stance and vise versa, and that would be great to see, but i just imagine the programming to do it from one version to another...

Excited by this, lets see whats coming in the next video.

[pats]

The combination of new roles along with new 'Mark specific position' PI can open up lot of new tactical possibilities. Let's hope it all works well and we can now emulate some of the real life tactics which were not possible in the previous versions. 

[streety]

*nods in approvement* looks promising i have to say 

[josh.hobbs]

Pre match meeting is interesting if it means we can plan more specific details for particular games but if it takes on the same format as other interactions it's going to be luck of the draw stuff and potentially kill a match winning tactic just because you said the wrong thing, where morale already has too much of an influence in game in the first place. 

[RorysRocketThrow]

I wonder exactly what the personalise button does, in relation to the PI's?

[Guest El Payaso]

Didn't really expect too much to change in terms of tactics and because of that I cannot be too disappointed. 

I hope that all these small details added will now require more tactical thinking and for us to actually do things wisely tactically to be able to beat the AI. So more parts in terms of tactics existing and more ways for us to go wrong or be better than others. Or roles requiring more from the players and actually seeing some players (even while being decent enough for the level of football) not being able to handle the role because they don't have the required skills to do it. In terms of the ME this will be something I will keep really close eye on. 

After seeing this I am a bit fearful that the ME will continue going in the same way it has been going for couple of iterations as there really aren't too many new tactical options available especially in terms of pressing. So I'm afraid that again we will be seeing those repeating scenarios where goals are being scored when for example someone being left unmarked in throw-ins leading to free shot/cross and goal or striker on a support duty being allowed freely to set other people up. And these scenarios don't really have anything to do with football or being good tactically. They simply are just flaws. With these news on the tactics I don't see a reason why this would become varied. 

So to summarize: no big changes, which is partially good and gives the AI one more year to be able to catch us up and by that I hope that we human users now have to be more sound tactically to be successful. And the roles in the game demanding more of those certain attributes highlighted to actually perform in those roles successfully instead of goalkeepers being able to perform as outfield players equally well. 

 

 

[MHovel]

21 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

The usual wave of negativity I see.

Why calling it negativity instead of feedback? we all have the same comon desire, to improve the game experience.

we are customers and we have the right to raise our concern (if we have) on the product, and by doing that, we really want SI to improve (or atleast consider improving) the areas that many others here, in this forums, and even outside raised as an issue fron previous releases.

So if someone disagree with some of SI move, you "catagorize" him as a "negativity wave"?

[Michael Zorc]

Really disappointed with the defensive side of the game. Nothing on vertical compactness (i.e. not just pushing up d-line but getting strikers to drop back too), pressing triggers, counterpressing. Just hopeless.

Given the debacle that was FM17, absolutely STUNNED that nothing was mentioned on fixing wide midfielder positioning.

Also, you could already tell a player to mark a specific position, it was just hidden inside the specific man marking instruction so not sure why this is being sold as a new feature - it's just been moved.

Agree that the underlap feature needs to be refined and made available for just one flank, not forced on both if you tick the option.

On the plus side, the new PPM "bring the ball out of defence" is a tiny step forward but if it's just limited to when the player has the ball and then they immediately shift backwards instead of maintaining a line with the DM to setup the counterpress, then it will be a disappointment.

[mojojojo101]

The new roles all seem sort of pointless, like things that really should already be possible by adapting current roles.

 

Tactics wise the most important thing to me is them gwtting a back three to work properly, its been a nightmare in recent versions to get it to work right.

[Dagenham_Dave]

9 minutes ago, MHovel said:

we are customers and we have the right to raise our concern (if we have) on the product

Well yes, but the beta isn't even out yet, how on earth can you 'raise concerns' on something you've only seen a handful of 5 minute videos on and never played yourself? 

As is so often said, if you're unsure about it, wait for the demo, try that and then you're in a far better position to (constructively) 'raise concerns'. 

However, it's an open forum, so everyone has the right to post whatever they want, within the house rules, so fill yer boots. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

we haven't had a graphical representation of which areas of the pitch are vulnerable and what may cause it.

I was intrigued by this part of the video & it is an addition that interests me from the perspective of making tactics more accessible to a wider range of FM players, my fear is that it will not be adaptive to actual match history with the same potential weaknesses being highlighted week after week despite results & performances showing otherwise & the user ending up confused as they plug gaps that the UI tells them exist only to miss the  real issues as played out in the ME.

So far there's been enough interesting content in the videos for me to spend time with the demo to see how they work in a short term game but the pressure on them to deliver for me to invest money & more importantly time is definitely on. After thousands of bug reports & an equal number of hours spent to do so since I started bug report on FM12 I now want to be able to launch FM, play it for hours & days on end without being sidetracked by issues I see in the conceptual design & implantation of new features or simply bugs that should have been caught before release.

Edit: Forgot about the new roles, unfortunately SI do have form for not getting new roles right or for them simply to not work at all, what I'd like to have seen in the video is for there to have been an ME highlight package showing players in action while asked to play in each of the new roles, a bit of show don't tell logic will have worked wonders.