Popular Post optimusprimal82 Posted January 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) Hey All, As a way to pay forward some of the awesome tactical help I was offered here so many (many) years ago, I've been enjoying getting involved and helping out a number of fellow players/newer managers over the past few months to seemingly great effect. What's become apparent during numerous conversations, forum/private messages and Discords is that whilst there is probably enough tactical advice to fill all of the worlds stadiums, when it comes to some of the more simple - and even abstract - parts of the game, the quality, variety and quantity of information dries up very quickly. Obviously we still have some great sites standing strong and some legendary FM-ers still around spreading the knowledge, but I drew up a few things as 'fill in the blanks' for some of the less known/exciting aspects of the game and was encouraged/asked to share them with the wider FM community soooo, um, here we are? I've written a '4-and-a-thing' page guide/did you know/maybe try to some of the bits of the game we all assume we're good at (and many of us are), but perhaps we neglect a bit more than we should? The ' thing' however is what led me to start this work at all... Mentality in game is something that rarely seems to get mentioned in any serious context, yet it can have such a dramatic effect in-game? I read many (many) posts from people complaining (understandably) about how the AI continually fights back when multiple goals down, or score so ruthlessly on the counter despite being 'attacking-ed' to death? Some people create a late game tactic to combat comebacks, others have a complete set that they change through as the game evolves. As a 'disciple' of some of the FM07/FM08 era tactical legends I subscribe mostly to the latter school of thought but realised that in order to learn that, I had a lot of detailed and helpful posts written out for me - but where is that information now? The point -> What I've created is a guide in how to survive 90 gruelling minutes in Football Manager - primarily 2019 but the methodologies apply to all games in the series (just watch for differences in terminology and checkpoint timings!). Players are one aspect, tactics another, but what about the times when we’re not playing as Barcelona, or haven’t got Diablo-2019 hidden as a sneaky plan B? When victories turn into defeats and walkovers turn into upsets, there’s often not a lot wrong tactically, just perhaps a subtle wrong turn somewhere during the game that - unbeknownst at the time - leads to our downfall, sometimes repeatedly. As with so many things, none of this is a guarantee and much of it is opinion (mostly my own) - things will happen in game very much off script - this is more to teach the ebb and flow of a usual game, how a successful manager MAY react, and to help get you thinking a bit more about why - tactics and players aside - things may be happening as they are. This is in no way definitive, the quality - and more importantly mentality - of your players will also play a big part in how they react to events unfolding (complacency /anxiety/disillusion). Hope it helps someone out in any case! PS: To the lovely moderator guys n girls; a lot of this is tactical, a fair bit isn't - wasn't sure whether to put this in the tactics discussion or here (quick group vote decided here) but please move/let me know if you'd like me to move if you don't feel it's the right place, consensus was that most new players come to general first and most helpful for them etc! Edited January 28, 2019 by optimusprimal82 86 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDecentOne Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Brilliant post! Thanks for this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tremor Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Great work! well written, really informative and brilliantly laid out. Thanks mate 👍 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Neil Brock Posted January 28, 2019 Administrators Share Posted January 28, 2019 Nicely done good sir! Always great to see stuff like this posted on here. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
priority76 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Incredible work sir! Can't wait to get stuck into this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimusprimal82 Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) Thanks all, glad it's been of some use! If enough people find it useful I'll maybe look into a more 'permanent' home for it in the future so people can find/reference it easily, if anyone has any suggestions (others FM sites etc) then by all means shout up. Likewise, if anyone spots any glaring errors/embarrassing typo's then I'll happily retro-fix them too! Edited January 29, 2019 by optimusprimal82 Autocorrect, obviously. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr U Rosler Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) Great work. Very useful for newbies...... and oldies like me! Big fan of personality based recruitment, players and staff. Edited January 29, 2019 by Mr U Rosler 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpoon76 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Very impressive and I liked the writing style. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexclub Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Top content, thank you for your dedication. Looking forward to this evening to test the mentality masterplan. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrahamF Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Amazing post. Fair play! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icy Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Awesome info and presentation, thanks for the great work! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaks500 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Excellent work - this should be the go to thread for anytime one of those moaning threads about how the game is screwing them over is started. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazza Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) Cheers, a well presented, easy to follow guide. Very useful for all players. I like the demystifying of some of the terminology, again makes it clear and precise. Great use of charts/bars/tips and such like. Thank you very much. Just downloaded it to desktop..easy reference doc. Edited January 29, 2019 by Kazza 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright 747 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 please post a link Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimusprimal82 Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 6 hours ago, Tony Wright 747 said: please post a link Happy to help, but a link to what specifically? The files are right there in the first post - unless they're not showing up on your device? You can save them directly from those though if you'd prefer to read offline etc? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright 747 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 10 hours ago, optimusprimal82 said: Happy to help, but a link to what specifically? The files are right there in the first post - unless they're not showing up on your device? You can save them directly from those though if you'd prefer to read offline etc? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roykela Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I converted the pics into a .pdf, for those who find that easier (i somehow managed to mess up so there is one blank extra page at the end ). I hope it's alright with OP. If not, just let me know and i'll take it away. Team Building 101.pdf 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
safcgowland Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 This is tremendous. I played a lot of FM12 back at university and had that mainly cracked. I have struggled at FM19 as there are a lot of changes so this is helpful to say the least. Out of curiosity is there any reason you've done this or is it just purely to help people out? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimusprimal82 Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 11 hours ago, roykela said: I converted the pics into a .pdf, for those who find that easier (i somehow managed to mess up so there is one blank extra page at the end ). I hope it's alright with OP. If not, just let me know and i'll take it away. Team Building 101.pdf Yep, absolutely no problem - should have probably done it myself in the first place, but was so glad to get them finished I didn't even bother making them a uniform page size etc - got a few minor corrections/improvements to make based on suggestions/feedback (none to the main masterplan itself - so far!) so when i get to making them and republish i'll make sure i have a pdf version available too! 10 hours ago, safcgowland said: This is tremendous. I played a lot of FM12 back at university and had that mainly cracked. I have struggled at FM19 as there are a lot of changes so this is helpful to say the least. Out of curiosity is there any reason you've done this or is it just purely to help people out? Thank you! Ha, I was asking myself the same question a few nights back when getting the logic down for CP's 3 & 4!! It all started just from talking to a pal who was (continuously) really struggling with conceding late goals and couldn't understand why his 'should be world beating side' changed to 'very defensive' couldn't keep the likes of Fulham & Cardiff at bay. It escalated quickly, with another friend taking umbridge that I was helping one and not the other; he was in an even worse position and when i looked at his save file it was obvious he had a bigger problem with recruitment; convinced he had a team of world beaters, 3rd year in he was getting progressively worse as he bought every young talent - blew his mind when i told him the 'wonderkid' part (players with amazing potential, but not always the full required current ability), he'd sold off some big names to fund his spree too so had weakened himself considerably, especially as a a lot of his new signings had really dodgy personalities as a bonus! From there it spread to these forums, helping a few guys out in threads and over PM's, to Discord and the like - obviously tactics continue to be a black hole for a lot of people, but there's so many threads/resources/experts to help with those, but came to the conclusion is it always necessarily the tactics? Even with a great tactic set - or a downloaded one proven to work - people still struggle to get results which suggests more of an issue with game management than whether their striker should be an F9 or not - this was just a way to suggest other things they should tinker with. I started sending 'logic sketches' to try and get some of my points across as it's difficult to explain simply with text so when a few people suggested drawing it up properly I decided to go for it, unaware of what i was letting myself in for when looking at the logic for an entire match! Early concept - renamed to CP1 (complete with disgusting drink stain and spillage for authenticity); Fwiw, I think the way the opposition can far too often find a route back into the game is more than a little iffy, but when taken to pieces and studied now like I have, it makes more sense and has become much MUCH easier for me to nullify, such that I rarely concede if I can take the lead (penalties and free kicks aside - my 'best' DM is unfortunately not the best when it comes to avoiding fouls, having more than a touch of the Fellaini's about him!). Not saying it's infallible, indeed I've struggled in the last half a season in my save because the quality of my players just isn't there to dominate (promoted 3 times in consecutive years) relegated premier league teams (Leeds spent 18 million in the Jan xfer window, my season budget was 1.2 million!), but i've still wielded it effectively enough that we've won PL promotion against all odds (and a healthy leverage of the loan system!). Realistic? Perhaps not, but challenging and rewarding all the same, especially when you have a Mike Ashley equivalent running your club who sells 2-3 of your best players each year and gives you peanuts in return! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roykela Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, optimusprimal82 said: Yep, absolutely no problem - should have probably done it myself in the first place, but was so glad to get them finished I didn't even bother making them a uniform page size etc - got a few minor corrections/improvements to make based on suggestions/feedback (none to the main masterplan itself - so far!) so when i get to making them and republish i'll make sure i have a pdf version available too! I know what you mean. I'm pretty much the same when i get done with stuff/projects I'll keep my eyes on it and remove my post when you update yours, with the pdf version. Amazing work, by the way. Absolutely brilliant 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorks Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 @optimusprimal82 this is an absolutely fantastic resource mate. Massive respect to you for the time and effort put in and the awesome presentation of what can be detailed and complicated information. A great resource for newbies and reference for oldies like me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimusprimal82 Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 Some of you may have already seen this but just found this 'personality' guide by @gossy7 - right here on these very forums - which compliments the 'buying' sheet perfectly for anyone interested in that sort of thing! Forum thread is here, or if you'd like to skip the middle man, the direct link (leaves SI and goes to Steam forums) is here. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunchymeno9 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Just now, sunchymeno9 said: Really interesting post buddy. I'd agree completely on the altering mentality based on current match situation. I've started a small guide to FM 2019 on YouTube at www.youtube.com/user/sunchymeno/ Watch, comment and subscribe! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpdavey Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 @optimusprimal82 this is brilliant. I've been trying this out. Two questions: 1. there is a loop on the 12-15 minutes section of the flow diagram: Are you more than 5-10% better of in possession? - No If the opposition has a possession majority, is it more than 10%? - No Wait 5 minutes and check again Can you just clarify this? Are you looping this until the 35-40 min mark? 2. A response to certain situations you instruct to go to the Control tactic on Cautious and then later on in the flow it states to go up one in mentality or even Very Attacking would this be applicable to if you're already on your control tactic or would you switch back to the Core Tactic to do this? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimusprimal82 Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) @djpdavey No worries, glad it helps! To answer your questions; 1.) Yes, kind of. I don't like playing almost an entire half on cautious/starting mentality but i will if i don't feel comfortable enough to change up. What i'm finding with a lot of people using the plan is that possession isn't maybe the best indicator with some tactics (more direct/higher through balls) so you can use the shot counter to better gauge (although keep possession in mind). If the AI has 2-3 shots in succession I hear alarm bells and change down/up accordingly. I am very much from the school of "don't change unless you need to" but this can bite you if you don't change soon enough - the longer you adopt the approach though the better you get at judging (although inevitably you will still mess it up now and then!). 2.) I assume this is if you're drawing/losing late on? Let me know which particular part of the masterplan it's on if it's vague and i'll see if i can tighten it up - what my general rule of thumb is assessing whether i'm on top or the opposition is (shot counter method as mentioned above). If it's me and i'm significantly on top i may well change back up to BASE, but then that's quite a jump from CTRL/Cautious so i'd have to assume if you were that far down the mentality scale you were/had been under the pump a little (unless i've got a logic step massively wrong) in which case i'd consider going very attacking on CTRL - it's less attacking overall than BASE, but should still be effective and keep FB's back a little to prevent leakage. Absolutely no need to download/use the tactics - this methodology should work for any tactics etc - but i wrote a thread with the tactic sets I use and (more pertinent for you) examples/test cases of when I change up/down. I also introduced another step (I call it CTRLCNTR) in between BASE and CTRL as I sometimes find the gulf too big and it means my BASE can be really offensive to get me a couple of goals lead and then I have two control variants - one more tailored to attack, one more to defense. Link below - hope it's of some use! Lastly, anyone playing the beta may be interested to note that the AI actually seems a little less aggressive in terms of comebacks (although i've only played 13 matches so far so a small sample size). Still assessing what that means in terms of the masterplan but i'm finding I don't have to be quite so cautious, although i'm still observing the checkpoints/timing strictly as they're still business as usual. Edited February 16, 2019 by optimusprimal82 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
howhigh1337 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) fantastic stuff, now I want to play again after some break Edited February 16, 2019 by howhigh1337 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimusprimal82 Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 Hope they help - good luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpdavey Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 On 16/02/2019 at 11:25, optimusprimal82 said: I assume this is if you're drawing/losing late on? Let me know which particular part of the masterplan it's on if it's vague and i'll see if i can tighten it up - what my general rule of thumb is assessing whether i'm on top or the opposition is (shot counter method as mentioned above). If it's me and i'm significantly on top i may well change back up to BASE, but then that's quite a jump from CTRL/Cautious so i'd have to assume if you were that far down the mentality scale you were/had been under the pump a little (unless i've got a logic step massively wrong) in which case i'd consider going very attacking on CTRL - it's less attacking overall than BASE, but should still be effective and keep FB's back a little to prevent leakage. Thanks that answer the question. I've been switching back to CORE to go Very Attacking which I can see is wrong. Instead I should being doing as your answer states. Thanks! I'm using my own 4-1-2-3 tactic not a downloaded one. Your illustrations has made me realise that my team (promoted last season) did not yet have the quality depth to get promoted again. I was leading the league until the last 5 games when I fell away into the playoffs of the Vanarama National and lost in the playoffs when the 2 CM's were in dire need of a rest, I needed a better AML and a better backup left Fullback. In pre-season now, much happier with the depth of squad. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimusprimal82 Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 Awesome, glad you've been able to work through it - good luck for the season ahead!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpdavey Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Started a new season, Game plan was ready. Cautious mentality. 60% Possession, Even Shots, 80% Pass completion. Then this happens: My Centre Back lobs my goal keeper Ronaldinho-Seaman Style Ended up losing 2-0 because I was the chasing and tried to push for the equaliser. No fault of the guide just thought it was funny enough to share! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner86 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 One of the best posts I've seen in a long time. Certainly given me some new things to think about. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimusprimal82 Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 On 22/02/2019 at 01:56, gunner86 said: One of the best posts I've seen in a long time. Certainly given me some new things to think about. Thank you - glad it may help even if only a little! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phd_angel Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 @optimusprimal82 Thanks so much for your advice shared throughout the forum. I'd have one request or suggestion if I may: to write more concisely, if possible, more to the point. Less words. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 3 hours ago, phd_angel said: @optimusprimal82 Thanks so much for your advice shared throughout the forum. I'd have one request or suggestion if I may: to write more concisely, if possible, more to the point. Less words. I think it really depends on who his core audience is, some people may appreciate him taking the time to explain stuff and this could be an audience who don't really understand a lot of the basics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earnie is God! Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 An excellent read and very detailed. I have started testing this out in my games and do have some questions though. 1. Right at the beginning, if you are not a top 4 team, you start on 'cautious' even if at home to a team near the foot of the table? I manage Cardiff and we are currently 4th in the table although obviously not of the quality of your typical top 4 side. Playing at home to bottom of the table Huddersfield, or in a cup game v Championship side Blackburn, still cautious to begin with? On 15/02/2019 at 19:32, djpdavey said: 1. there is a loop on the 12-15 minutes section of the flow diagram: Are you more than 5-10% better of in possession? - No If the opposition has a possession majority, is it more than 10%? - No Wait 5 minutes and check again Can you just clarify this? Are you looping this until the 35-40 min mark? On 16/02/2019 at 11:25, optimusprimal82 said: 1.) Yes, kind of. I don't like playing almost an entire half on cautious/starting mentality but i will if i don't feel comfortable enough to change up. What i'm finding with a lot of people using the plan is that possession isn't maybe the best indicator with some tactics (more direct/higher through balls) so you can use the shot counter to better gauge (although keep possession in mind). If the AI has 2-3 shots in succession I hear alarm bells and change down/up accordingly. I am very much from the school of "don't change unless you need to" but this can bite you if you don't change soon enough - the longer you adopt the approach though the better you get at judging (although inevitably you will still mess it up now and then!). 2. I was going to ask about the above too. In a recent game at Liverpool, all stats were pretty even: possession, shot count, pass percentage, etc but we went 1-0 down after 17min and 2-0 down after 24 (at this point, they had had just 4 shots and we had 3). I was still on cautious and stuck in that loop djpdavey was talking about and I wasn't sure what to do. On 29/01/2019 at 00:05, optimusprimal82 said: if anyone spots any glaring errors/embarrassing typo's then I'll happily retro-fix them too! Not glaring errors, just some clarification if you would 3. In this pic, I've added in the red arrow as presumably you would keep it that way until HT? Also, I've put a blue circle there as there isn't a 'NO' option i.e. there was no AI momentum towards the end of the 1st half to be concerned about. Would you still start the 2nd half on 'cautious'? 4. And in this one, going into the final minutes of the game, it's missing the wording for the options from the "if you're" box. It's obvious that the top option would be if you are winning (or happy with the score, maybe a draw) and the bottom one if you are losing and chasing the game but you did say to mention any typos. Lastly, can I ask what you would do if you had a man sent off? I've just played this match at 2nd-placed Arsenal Started on cautious and they scored early on but it was the only shot they had in the first 25min, we had just two. I changed up to balanced and we scored two in quick succession. Very happy at HT as Arsenal had had just two shots and we had managed six. Switched to cautious for the start of the 2nd half as advised but then my striker went in two-footed and he was sent off in the 53rd min. I was just about to switch to balanced but when that happened I didn't know what to do. I changed my 4-1-4-1 to 4-1-3-1 so we at least had an outlet but I left it on cautious. We were then swamped for the next 10min, managed to block some crosses and cut out passes but they were well on top, had a few shots on target and managed to get the equaliser. As the more cautious approach was causing us problems, I switched back to balanced and that seemed to work a lot better. We even had a couple of chances to win it. Last 10min, I changed defensive roles, etc (e.g. NNFB) and we rode out the storm to escape with a very respectable draw. I just wasn't sure what the right mentality and approach would be having gone down to 10 men. What would you have done? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimusprimal82 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 Hi everybody - long time no see! After clocking up what can only be described as an obscene number of hours in FM19, it was only fitting I had time away and spent at least some of it with family, friends and of course crying alone in a dark room at the state of my beloved (Manchester) United; having watched Watford deservedly pick up only their second win of the season (yes, they have actually had more managers than wins this season so far) I decided it's time to dust off the virtual waistcoat and come back to banging my head against my favourite brick wall (I mean FM, not the forums)! So with FM20 freshly downloaded/installed, I'm back in the groove, sticking my nose in where it's not wanted and offering advice where it may/may not be needed! Naturally I'll be running through all of my guides above and seeing how they compare/align with this years game - not going to flatter myself and think anyone is/has still been using it, but any thoughts/recommendations greatly received (there are a couple in the thread I never addressed I'll be taking on board)! One thing that I surprisingly never seemed to post in this thread - and something I've been discussing this very morning on Discord (because I can't help myself it seems) - is my 'desired player attributes' for when I'm recruiting players? It's not 100% original, it was based on a spreadsheet that was shared around way back in the FM06/07 days, but this is one I put together with all the modern attributes a few years back (and is consequently tailored for my own tastes) - naturally the likelihood of ever finding players that meet all attributes criteria is slim to none, but it's a starting point and filters are naturally your friend! For anyone not familiar with the history of this thread, I started it/my guides last year when a few friends were consistently struggling with the game and I realised they were all making similar wrong turns; there are plenty of people out there willing to offer tactical advice or assistance on formations/playing styles but if you flick to the data sheets at the top - ignoring the mentality stuff - you'll notice I focus a lot on player recruitment and I reckon it's an area that a lot of players fall down - either relying on real world ability/reputation, ignoring mental attributes/personality traits or a very common issue, Potential ability instead of current ability/decent attribute spread; imagine a striker with 200PA with 20 for tackling, crossing & Throw-Ins but 3 for consistency, determination, finishing, composure & anticipation? Sure he might improve but why waste all that development effort on someone who is so fatally flawed to begin with; chances are you'll be able to find someone with PA/CA of 150 that will regularly outperform the other guy? The other area - and the reason I'm sharing these now - is I noticed that (from an admittedly very small sample size of 'friends in need') the guys newer to the game were generally better at filtering players by attributes... some of the players who've been playing the game were searching/filtering on memory and overlooking attributes that perhaps they don't see as important/weren't in the game, but perhaps are viewed as quite important now in the game/ME (and I say this on the basis that the game highlights said attributes as important); composure is a big one - if you look at the table below you'll notice I've got it listed as a key/important attribute pretty much across the board, and a lot of that comes from data provided in-game. I remember when composure was introduced, it was a big deal for strikers, but is now especially so for most positions (I always use Chris Smalling as an example of a solid-ish defender with poor composure; on his day he can be very competent, but you can tell he is nervous with the ball at his feet, and if he's ever put under pressure he gets very 'flappy' very quickly). This isn't true of all attributes of course; Determination is one I stubbornly commit too regardless of ability, but is one which I've learnt over many years can/does make a big difference (at least imo). Enough preaching from me anyway, I'll likely pop back and update this as I find things out and learn (probably painful) lessons from FM20! PS: someone has requested I make this spreadsheet available in another thread; not entirely sure why the full sheet is needed as opposed to the picture but I see no harm in it, so can upload here too if needed/desired. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Does this see you focusing a lot on very one-footed players then? Where strong other foot eats into CA so much that attributes look poorer than they actually play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimusprimal82 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 Not that I notice/I'm pretty ambivalent about footedness? The only position I usually care about a player being able to use his other foot is striker really, with it being a secondary consideration for wingers. It's been a while since I monitored PA/CA whilst playing so not sure how much being both footed affects the values overall, but I'm not too upset for most positions if a player is primarily one footed - as with most of these things it's a balancing act; I'd still take a young promising striker who could only use his left/right foot and was hopeless with the other, but I wouldn't take a young promising striker who was great with both feet if he had <5 Determination and a spineless/slack personality for example? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, optimusprimal82 said: Not that I notice/I'm pretty ambivalent about footedness? The only position I usually care about a player being able to use his other foot is striker really, with it being a secondary consideration for wingers. It's been a while since I monitored PA/CA whilst playing so not sure how much being both footed affects the values overall, but I'm not too upset for most positions if a player is primarily one footed - as with most of these things it's a balancing act; I'd still take a young promising striker who could only use his left/right foot and was hopeless with the other, but I wouldn't take a young promising striker who was great with both feet if he had <5 Determination and a spineless/slack personality for example? It does make a pretty big difference for technical stats, a striker with 12 finishing for a strong other foot can easily be overlooked in favour of someone with 16 and both will be as effective in their position, because the automatic feeling of higher is better isn't true. It's a general issue I've had with the game for years, especially when there are direct attribute comparison tools in game and the whole scouting reports are based on attributes but they don't tell the whole story. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimusprimal82 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 Happy to be wrong/learn something new - gives me something new and fun to test with FM20 at least, especially with a lot of people mentioning missed chances etc, be good to get a few different strikers in and see how things like that make a difference... Will quickly add a disclaimer for all/everyone; anything I write in any guide/post is one way of doing things and is never a suggestion/me telling you that you're doing something wrong, just suggestions for people struggling as to what they can try and look at/do differently; part of the fun is that there is no one way of winning - people have questioned me on my fascination with determination for a long time because they've won everything without ever paying it any attention yet I am so stubbornly against any player with a single digit value etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiigman Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 hours ago, optimusprimal82 said: Hi everybody - long time no see! After clocking up what can only be described as an obscene number of hours in FM19, it was only fitting I had time away and spent at least some of it with family, friends and of course crying alone in a dark room at the state of my beloved (Manchester) United; having watched Watford deservedly pick up only their second win of the season (yes, they have actually had more managers than wins this season so far) I decided it's time to dust off the virtual waistcoat and come back to banging my head against my favourite brick wall (I mean FM, not the forums)! So with FM20 freshly downloaded/installed, I'm back in the groove, sticking my nose in where it's not wanted and offering advice where it may/may not be needed! Naturally I'll be running through all of my guides above and seeing how they compare/align with this years game - not going to flatter myself and think anyone is/has still been using it, but any thoughts/recommendations greatly received (there are a couple in the thread I never addressed I'll be taking on board)! One thing that I surprisingly never seemed to post in this thread - and something I've been discussing this very morning on Discord (because I can't help myself it seems) - is my 'desired player attributes' for when I'm recruiting players? It's not 100% original, it was based on a spreadsheet that was shared around way back in the FM06/07 days, but this is one I put together with all the modern attributes a few years back (and is consequently tailored for my own tastes) - naturally the likelihood of ever finding players that meet all attributes criteria is slim to none, but it's a starting point and filters are naturally your friend! For anyone not familiar with the history of this thread, I started it/my guides last year when a few friends were consistently struggling with the game and I realised they were all making similar wrong turns; there are plenty of people out there willing to offer tactical advice or assistance on formations/playing styles but if you flick to the data sheets at the top - ignoring the mentality stuff - you'll notice I focus a lot on player recruitment and I reckon it's an area that a lot of players fall down - either relying on real world ability/reputation, ignoring mental attributes/personality traits or a very common issue, Potential ability instead of current ability/decent attribute spread; imagine a striker with 200PA with 20 for tackling, crossing & Throw-Ins but 3 for consistency, determination, finishing, composure & anticipation? Sure he might improve but why waste all that development effort on someone who is so fatally flawed to begin with; chances are you'll be able to find someone with PA/CA of 150 that will regularly outperform the other guy? The other area - and the reason I'm sharing these now - is I noticed that (from an admittedly very small sample size of 'friends in need') the guys newer to the game were generally better at filtering players by attributes... some of the players who've been playing the game were searching/filtering on memory and overlooking attributes that perhaps they don't see as important/weren't in the game, but perhaps are viewed as quite important now in the game/ME (and I say this on the basis that the game highlights said attributes as important); composure is a big one - if you look at the table below you'll notice I've got it listed as a key/important attribute pretty much across the board, and a lot of that comes from data provided in-game. I remember when composure was introduced, it was a big deal for strikers, but is now especially so for most positions (I always use Chris Smalling as an example of a solid-ish defender with poor composure; on his day he can be very competent, but you can tell he is nervous with the ball at his feet, and if he's ever put under pressure he gets very 'flappy' very quickly). This isn't true of all attributes of course; Determination is one I stubbornly commit too regardless of ability, but is one which I've learnt over many years can/does make a big difference (at least imo). Enough preaching from me anyway, I'll likely pop back and update this as I find things out and learn (probably painful) lessons from FM20! PS: someone has requested I make this spreadsheet available in another thread; not entirely sure why the full sheet is needed as opposed to the picture but I see no harm in it, so can upload here too if needed/desired. Are those numbers based on what the game says are important attributes for the roles or ones you have chosen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimusprimal82 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, craiigman said: Are those numbers based on what the game says are important attributes for the roles or ones you have chosen? A bit of both. Naturally - as mentioned - I tweak the values down until finding matches etc. Obviously it varies a little depending on club size/rep - the figures are massively 'ideal world' and if you find a single player for any of the positions with all values as listed i'd be surprised; the values are just my example (based on data from the game/experience from playing over the years/feedback from others) of ideal/desired stats for each position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vspec1 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 This us true game theory optimal. I guess you read Cleons posts back I need the day? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimusprimal82 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Vspec1 said: This us true game theory optimal. I guess you read Cleons posts back I need the day? I think I read every post back in the day - I bounced off FM07 originally really hard; I'd thrashed/loved FM06 but couldn't buy a consistent streak for love or money in '07 so went into 'sponge mode' to try and understand what on earth I was doing wrong! Certainly I'd say I learnt most from both Cleon and wwfan's numerous posts over the years - it wasn't an overnight thing & I had to put some effort in but it helped me get over the 'misery hump' of FM07 and I've never really looked back since. The advice has served me well in all such iterations of the game so this is me 'trying to give back' to see if it can help at least one person avoid the frustration etc. I don't go anywhere near things such as team shape etc as there are plenty of good reads out there about that already (and the people who'd likely benefit/be interested in that level of the game have likely read them already), instead I tried to design this for newer players/people who want to brush up a little and are maybe time poor/people who've played the game a long time and are relying on old habits etc; as with everything, we're always learning, and I 100% include myself in that (this is one of my favourite posts from recent years for example)! Edited December 23, 2019 by optimusprimal82 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocomaya Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Amazing work. He obviously spends a lot of time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimusprimal82 Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 5 hours ago, cocomaya said: Amazing work. He obviously spends a lot of time. Thank you - it certainly took a while to get all this right in my head, never mind written down! I've seen enough of 20 now to suggest that the majority of this is still very relevant (the team report windows have undergone a fair bit of redesign - probably the biggest change?) but i'll plug away a bit longer and see if there's anything (else, added on to some of the suggestions above) that needs amending and rebadge/republish etc. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajt Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Brilliant graphics thank you for putting in the time and effort! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM_Prospect Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Thank you for this, I have just started my second season with Exeter City, still in League 2...Went down 1 - 0 in the first 5 minutes and pulled it back to win 1-3 using the Mentality Masterplan, @optimusprimal82 would love to read a more of what you have written/ recommended reads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiCHroTT Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 thanks for the update @optimusprimal82. i am using your masterplan since you posted it and happy to see you adding content. as i play the game heavily youth oriented (spotting, training) how can i use your last update to spot those 16-17 year olds? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w4rgo Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Hi @optimusprimal82, I added your guide images to my website for an easier use of the guide. If you are not happy with this I can of course remove it. Thank you.https://www.gamemaps.co.uk/game/football_manager_2019 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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