Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II passes away. 21st April 1926 - 8th September 2022.

[Christmas]

This has been a week of shame for the British societies but cancelling cancer care is a new low. 

What an opportunity for Charles to star this reign off by displaying decency and power by announcing that actually he'd rather thst type of thing not happen in his departed mother's name. Except he won't, because the lives of others won't cross his inbred little mind once 

[Christmas]

The "time and place" arguments and the comparisons with Westboro are completely wrong in this case, in my view.

This isn't a funeral that someone has gone particularly out of their way to gatecrash and picket (although doing so ought to be both legal and completely and utterly distasteful), in contrast to Westboro.

This is some privileged elite shutting down the entire country to march their way through the main public thoroughfares of primary city. Effectively forcing themselves and their state funeral on everyone. For me that completely changes the discussion on time and place and 'just dont do it at a funeral'. Just dont have a ****ing funeral in the middle of Edinburgh then.

As for the blank piece of paper arrests, absolute failed state the UK is.

[leftback in the changing room]

Not certain whether I should go for a light hearted diversion or stir the pot a bit more in here

(I'll let you decide which this is)

[Weezer]

IT’S. WHAT. SHE. WOULD. HAVE. WANTED.

[miketheheadlesschicken]

8 hours ago, thefmveteran86 said:

Also I might be a British man and I'm not a BIG fan of the royals I wouldn't wish them any harm or anything else devious, I'm proud of the royals but we know all these anti-royalists are treasonists pigs and those who hate the queen and the royals who are human beings like us and should be treated with respect and if you're going to heckle during these times of sorrow I really pity you 

[Darren Moores Mum]

8 hours ago, Garethjohn79 said:

Will you be wearing your Wednesday shirt or shout ''you useless Blunts'' Infront of a load of Blades fans next time there at home, there'll be more cameras around, you'll get more attention, and you'll probably get a good hiding, if the Police are there you may get moved on if you don't listen, they might stick you in the van and until it's safe again. You've done nothing illegal you're just being a dick. If you want a reaction that won't be filmed or pull in a twitter audience, do it in a Blades fan pub out of sight of the Police.

 

Holy false equivalencies Batman. 

[TalkSport]

13 hours ago, Haguey said:

In our trust - routine stuff is being moved where possible, simply due to the bank holiday, no admin staff, support workers, etc.

Urgent and critical appointments/surgery going ahead, as will any procedure that will breach 52 weeks.

No word for me yet but I'm not in a critical role so would expect the day off.

For the trusts, it’s another expense added onto their expenditure which they will likely not get money for.

[oche balboa]

6 hours ago, Christmas said:

This has been a week of shame for the British societies but cancelling cancer care is a new low. 

What an opportunity for Charles to star this reign off by displaying decency and power by announcing that actually he'd rather thst type of thing not happen in his departed mother's name. Except he won't, because the lives of others won't cross his inbred little mind once 

The Cancelling hasn't come from Charles or the Royal Family. 

[sc91]

3 minutes ago, oche balboa said:

The Cancelling hasn't come from Charles or the Royal Family. 

He said it was an opportunity for them to gain some favour by reversing it.

[Gricehead]

7 minutes ago, sc91 said:

He said it was an opportunity for them to gain some favour by reversing it.

But the Royal Family don't set the rules about what the Royal Family does?

[Lucas]

I feel quite conflicted really even as a republican. 

I'm not so sure it's smart to be "protesting" at this time, and having met some people at Republic.org conferences in the past, you do get some real loudmouths even at those. There are some strange people about.

It seems lacking in class a bit making the protests personal, when the real questions and issues are about the institution as a whole and they are always relevant, not just now because we are going through a change over in Monarch.

For some of them, I think they do run the risk of being hit for heckling and so on, and I think it would probably be smarter for them to organise peacefully their disapproval, so it doesn't look like some of the clips I've seen - randoms in a crowd shouting and holding up signs. 

OTOH, I think people should have a right to protest and make their voices heard whatever the time, in an ideal world. Makes me uneasy that some are being moved on. 

The royals are weird, dangerous even for a bunch of reasons (unelected, undemocratic, and then the personal reasons on top of that), but I'd like to think the arguments are compelling enough without having to get into personal dislikes of the individuals. They've lost a mother and a grandmother when all said and done - so personally I'd agree with the Australians that there is a better time for it. Clearly they are swayed enough by the constitutional arguments to not get too personal over it, and I don't see why republicans here can't either.

[SouthCoastRed]

11 minutes ago, Gricehead said:

But the Royal Family don't set the rules about what the Royal Family does?

I'm no royalist, some of the 'hangers on' are truly despicable people, and although I've felt strangely sad and emotional over the whole thing this last week, I truly believe some sort of reform or modification is needed,

But those of you shouting for Charles to reverse decisions, he can't just pick up the phone, and say "equerry, change X,Y and Z today please" That's the very thing most of your arguments are based around that they shouldn't have any power or sway.
 

You can't have it both ways, just to suit a personal opinion you know

[oche balboa]

100% spot on

[Christmas]

12 minutes ago, SouthCoastRed said:

I'm no royalist, some of the 'hangers on' are truly despicable people, and although I've felt strangely sad and emotional over the whole thing this last week, I truly believe some sort of reform or modification is needed,

But those of you shouting for Charles to reverse decisions, he can't just pick up the phone, and say "equerry, change X,Y and Z today please" That's the very thing most of your arguments are based around that they shouldn't have any power or sway.
 

You can't have it both ways, just to suit a personal opinion you know

I'm not sure who you are intending to respond to but that mischaracterizes completely what I've said - which is solely that if he was to suggest maybe his old dear didn't want cancer patients dying in her name while the nation races itself to out-mourn itself then maybe some sense would return. Wouldn't mean he was ordering anything or exercising any power. The primary person it would help is him, and his tarnished image.

[Darren Moores Mum]

14 minutes ago, SouthCoastRed said:

I'm no royalist, some of the 'hangers on' are truly despicable people, and although I've felt strangely sad and emotional over the whole thing this last week, I truly believe some sort of reform or modification is needed,

But those of you shouting for Charles to reverse decisions, he can't just pick up the phone, and say "equerry, change X,Y and Z today please" That's the very thing most of your arguments are based around that they shouldn't have any power or sway.
 

You can't have it both ways, just to suit a personal opinion you know

There's a difference between that and making a statement saying that the family wouldn't want things to grind to a halt in their name. It's still up to those organisations individually how they respond.

[Gazza D]

At work, they have decided to shut the office on 19th September so that we can pay respect to Her Majesty.

They have given everyone the option of using annual leave or going unpaid 

[Gricehead]

11 minutes ago, ginnybob said:

There's a difference between that and making a statement saying that the family wouldn't want things to grind to a halt in their name. It's still up to those organisations individually how they respond.

I don't think they'd even be allowed to make that statement to be honest. The actual members of the Royal Family are pretty much pawns in the Institution's game.

[SouthCoastRed]

4 hours ago, Christmas said:

This is some privileged elite shutting down the entire country to march their way through the main public thoroughfares of primary city. Effectively forcing themselves and their state funeral on everyone. For me that completely changes the discussion on time and place and 'just dont do it at a funeral'. Just dont have a ****ing funeral in the middle of Edinburgh then.

I accept the comment about the cancer charities, and the hospitals and yes a word in the right ear, wouldn't be a disaster, but again it isn't and can't be there decisions 

My post is more in response to this rubbish. They haven't shut the entire country down, the country response to her death is to honour her, not the result of some demonic ancient law passed centuries ago by King Harold. The haven't forced a state funeral on anyone, again it's a honour bestowed by a grateful nation.
 

If you don't like it, ignore it, but don't try and make out we are subjugated peasants forced to doff our caps in reverence. There was 6 hours of queues last night to just walk past the coffin, do you think the yeoman of the guard went out and beat people to make them do that? When she gets to Westminster they think over a million will queue, just think about that for a moment. 

Just because OTF thinks something is wrong doesn't represent public opinion, if it did every Tory MP, councillor, donater and voter would be crucified on Hampstead Heath and Labour would rule for a thousand years, sadly, especially in this case, the rest of the country doesn't agree. 
 

You talk about repairing his 'tarnished image' as well, I got news, his image isn't tarnished, the vast, vast majority love everything about the monarchy. 
 

Protest should definitely be allowed, everyone should have an opinion and be free to express it, but don't try to pretend for one moment this is 'forced' on the millions who will line the streets, in fact if they didn't do this, there would be a massive outcry of why not

[Christmas]

I'm sorry but if you live in Aberdeen or Edinburgh then you have had this forced on you as normal life has been ruined. It took my mother 1h30 to do the 25 minute drive to my 98 year old grandmother on Sunday night, because of needless road closures that should only have been happening around Buckingham palace.

That may not be a conclusive argument against the closures happening - but it certainly is against the 'you shouldn't protest at a funeral' nonsense - the funeral / procession was right on everyone's doorsteps, to great inconvenience, over a prolonged period. That's the point. Doesn't matter if simpletons love it, it still deals with the 'dont protest here' authoritarian pish.

[SouthCoastRed]

1 minute ago, Christmas said:

Doesn't matter if simpletons love it,

There's the crux of your argument right there. Everyone is a simpleton who doesn't agree with you. Perfect. You'd make a good king

[Confused Clarity]

32 minutes ago, Gazza D said:

At work, they have decided to shut the office on 19th September so that we can pay respect to Her Majesty.

They have given everyone the option of using annual leave or going unpaid 

It's an actual additional bank holiday.

If they're closing the office, they need to put it in to your leave system to recognise it as a bank holiday.

Otherwise, they need to provide you the option to work.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Confused Clarity

[TM]

she died in Scotland, that's why the operation up here (which has been planned for years) came into force, hence the "road closures" because people wanted to pay their respects

[Lucas]

8 minutes ago, SouthCoastRed said:

the vast, vast majority love everything about the monarchy. 

I agreed with everything you had to say except this. It's a majority, but I wouldn't say vast majority at all, unless you're from the Brexiteer school of convincing majorities.  

Some good polls here. Especially that Charles doesn't have the approval of most at all, which is alarming when there is at least a majority in favour of the monarchy. 

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/institution/The_British_Monarchy?content=trackers

Most of the monarchy's popularity will be invested in, and in deference to, HM QEII.

So what we're seeing over the last week or two is quite right. I'd go as far as saying she's been, and can seen as, the Mother of the Nation since the post war period, which means the vast majority of the country have never known anything else. 

It's far from certain how support for the monarchy goes from here, but if people want to grieve or celebrate QEII, I don't have a problem with that.

[Christmas]

7 minutes ago, SouthCoastRed said:

There's the crux of your argument right there. Everyone is a simpleton who doesn't agree with you. Perfect. You'd make a good king

That isn't the crux of the argument though is it, its just the bit you've found easiest to deal with. 

If the royal family didn't want protestor they shouldnt have tramped about in public. Yes they wanted the adulation, but you can't pick and choose. 

If it had been done somewhere else then my views would be quite different, a la Balmoral letterbox point 

[Gazza D]

8 minutes ago, Confused Clarity said:

It's an actual additional bank holiday.

If they're closing the office, they need to put it in to your leave system to recognise it as a bank holiday.

Otherwise, they need to provide you the option to work.

Well one of the people I manage has asked to come in as normal, they said that's no an option and also rejected his request to work from home.

[Lucas]

Just now, Gazza D said:

Well one of the people I manage has asked to come in as normal, they said that's no an option and also rejected his request to work from home.

Sounds like they are breaking the law to me. 

[sc91]

18 minutes ago, SouthCoastRed said:

I accept the comment about the cancer charities, and the hospitals and yes a word in the right ear, wouldn't be a disaster, but again it isn't and can't be there decisions 

My post is more in response to this rubbish. They haven't shut the entire country down, the country response to her death is to honour her, not the result of some demonic ancient law passed centuries ago by King Harold. The haven't forced a state funeral on anyone, again it's a honour bestowed by a grateful nation.
 

If you don't like it, ignore it, but don't try and make out we are subjugated peasants forced to doff our caps in reverence. There was 6 hours of queues last night to just walk past the coffin, do you think the yeoman of the guard went out and beat people to make them do that? When she gets to Westminster they think over a million will queue, just think about that for a moment. 

Just because OTF thinks something is wrong doesn't represent public opinion, if it did every Tory MP, councillor, donater and voter would be crucified on Hampstead Heath and Labour would rule for a thousand years, sadly, especially in this case, the rest of the country doesn't agree. 
 

You talk about repairing his 'tarnished image' as well, I got news, his image isn't tarnished, the vast, vast majority love everything about the monarchy. 
 

Protest should definitely be allowed, everyone should have an opinion and be free to express it, but don't try to pretend for one moment this is 'forced' on the millions who will line the streets, in fact if they didn't do this, there would be a massive outcry of why not

We haven't got a functioning government at this moment in time, during a national crisis, no less.

Furthermore, aspects are forced, we had football cancelled this prior weekend, that was an enforced (by governing bodies in response to said death) change on people. No doubt we will have tributes throughout each of the matches following, but then again, people can't be clasping their pearls if those clubs who get pro-monarchy tributes forced upon them react 'negatively'.

[Gricehead]

12 minutes ago, Confused Clarity said:

It's an actual additional bank holiday.

If they're closing the office, they need to put it in to your leave system to recognise it as a bank holiday.

Otherwise, they need to provide you the option to work.

I think this depends on your contracted position for leave.

If your contract says "x days annual leave + bank holidays" then they're wrong.

If your contract says "x days annual leave including bank holidays" then they're right.

[Confused Clarity]

2 minutes ago, Gazza D said:

Well one of the people I manage has asked to come in as normal, they said that's no an option and also rejected his request to work from home.

 

Just now, Lucas said:

Sounds like they are breaking the law to me. 

They're almost certainly in breach of employment law.

If they're closing the office, that's their decision not the employee's and they need to accommodate that either by recognising it as an additional bank holiday, or providing the option to work.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-62871441

Interesting read

[Gazza D]

Just now, Confused Clarity said:

 

They're almost certainly in breach of employment law.

If they're closing the office, that's their decision not the employee's and they need to accommodate that either by recognising it as an additional bank holiday, or providing the option to work.

They've sent us this link https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights and quoted this in their email.

Quote

Bank holidays

Bank or public holidays do not have to be given as paid leave.

An employer can choose to include bank holidays as part of a worker’s statutory annual leave.

If any of you can point me in the right direction about which laws they are breaking I will get straight back to them.

 

I have checked my contract which states.

Quote

you will be entitled to 25 days' holiday in each calendar year throughout which you are employed by the company. The 25 days is inclusive of your statutory entitlement but exclusive of all public holidays

 

[SouthCoastRed]

3 minutes ago, Christmas said:

That isn't the crux of the argument though is it, its just the bit you've found easiest to deal with. 

If the royal family didn't want protestor they shouldnt have tramped about in public. Yes they wanted the adulation, but you can't pick and choose. 

If it had been done somewhere else then my views would be quite different, a la Balmoral letterbox point 

Oh ffs, this hasnt been organised by the royal family, it's been organised FOR the royal family, you obviously can't grasp that.
 

I've not said anything negative about the protests I'm all for them if you actually read what I posted, but you are claiming the funeral was forced on us, and I'm saying you're an idiot for believing that
 

And show me one item, anywhere from any source where one member of the royal family has complained about the protests?

 

[SouthCoastRed]

5 minutes ago, sc91 said:

We haven't got a functioning government at this moment in time, during a national crisis, no less.

Furthermore, aspects are forced, we had football cancelled this prior weekend, that was an enforced (by governing bodies in response to said death) change on people. No doubt we will have tributes throughout each of the matches following, but then again, people can't be clasping their pearls if those clubs who get pro-monarchy tributes forced upon them react 'negatively'.

I don't disagree with any of that, my issue is with the claim that the royals forced all this on us, it isn't Charles' fault the FA are idiots

[The_jagster]

6 minutes ago, sc91 said:

We haven't got a functioning government at this moment in time, during a national crisis, no less.

Furthermore, aspects are forced, we had football cancelled this prior weekend, that was an enforced (by governing bodies in response to said death) change on people. No doubt we will have tributes throughout each of the matches following, but then again, people can't be clasping their pearls if those clubs who get pro-monarchy tributes forced upon them react 'negatively'.

Football deciding to postpone matches isn't a forced change, as it was done within its own powers. Blaming the monarchy for it would be stupid, if someone wants to protest against the monarchy fine, do that with other justifications but using the postponements would be nonsense, protest against the FA.

Edited September 13, 2022 by The_jagster

[profii]

Just now, Gazza D said:

They've sent us this link https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights and quoted this in their email.

If any of you can point me in the right direction about which laws they are breaking I will get straight back to them.

 

I have checked my contract which states.

 

1. Your employer can make you take holiday if they give you notice, for 1 day of, they have to give 2 days notice, so they can get away with that
2. Gricehead is right about the wording of the contract which you have provided, it's not perfectly clear but I would read that as you get your 25 days + bank holidays, next Monday is now a bank holiday, so you dont need to use any of your 25 day up

 

you are getting a free day, raise it with your management.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

22 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Some good polls here. Especially that Charles doesn't have the approval of most at all, which is alarming when there is at least a majority in favour of the monarchy. 

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/institution/The_British_Monarchy?content=trackers

Most of the monarchy's popularity will be invested in, and in deference to, HM QEII.

 

[The_jagster]

2 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

I did wonder whether actually being the monarch would change opinion but I didn't expect it to be this stark

[Christmas]

3 minutes ago, SouthCoastRed said:

Oh ffs, this hasnt been organised by the royal family, it's been organised FOR the royal family, you obviously can't grasp that.
 

I've not said anything negative about the protests I'm all for them if you actually read what I posted, but you are claiming the funeral was forced on us, and I'm saying you're an idiot for believing that
 

And show me one item, anywhere from any source where one member of the royal family has complained about the protests?

 

I didn't grasp it previously because I didn't think that would actually be your argument. 

The plans for the arrangements following the queen's death will have been made years ago with input from the Queen and the royals. I trust that isn't disputed. So yes you are right that it's not like Lizzy died and Charles got on the blower demanding Edinburgh be shut down, but yes the Royal family absolutely did choose and want street parades and long national mourning periods.

The FA and the football being off is obviously a different issue to what I was discussing, which was Akter and others' ridiculous idea that someone from Edinburgh wishing to express their views should have chosen somewhere other than a road closure on their ****ing doorstep to do it 

[oche balboa]

23 minutes ago, Christmas said:

I'm sorry but if you live in Aberdeen or Edinburgh then you have had this forced on you as normal life has been ruined. It took my mother 1h30 to do the 25 minute drive to my 98 year old grandmother on Sunday night, because of needless road closures that should only have been happening around Buckingham palace.

That may not be a conclusive argument against the closures happening - but it certainly is against the 'you shouldn't protest at a funeral' nonsense - the funeral / procession was right on everyone's doorsteps, to great inconvenience, over a prolonged period. That's the point. Doesn't matter if simpletons love it, it still deals with the 'dont protest here' authoritarian pish.

The Queen died in Scotland so this was going to happen. Accept it and move on it wont last you can still get out and about and everything is open. No one cares/expects you to pay your respects - You made your position clear. But really nothing as changed much, TV is returning to normal. Football is back being played in this country. You shouldn't protest at the funeral it makes you a bit of a scumbag and as bad as the Westboro Church tossers. Time and a Place 

[Bigwig]

Yeah that contract basically says that your entitled leave doesn’t include bank holidays so they’re trying it on.

What did they do for the additional day we got for the Jubilee?  Wasn’t that long ago. 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

9 minutes ago, oche balboa said:

You shouldn't protest at the funeral it makes you a bit of a scumbag and as bad as the Westboro Church tossers. 

I mean

[Christmas]

1 minute ago, oche balboa said:

The Queen died in Scotland so this was going to happen. Accept it and move on it wont last you can still get out and about and everything is open. No one cares/expects you to pay your respects - You made your position clear. But really nothing as changed much, TV is returning to normal. Football is back being played in this country. You shouldn't protest at the funeral it makes you a bit of a scumbag and as bad as the Westboro Church tossers. Time and a Place 

I might as well copy and paste but how can 'the place' not be right in the severely disrupted centre of the place where people live? Totally different to Westboro or if people had gatecrashed the grounds of Balmoral or Buckingham Palace to protest. 

Public space =public space, and everything that comes with that. You can't (shouldn't be able to) pick and choose what public you hear, although obviously the police regrettably take a more Putinist view

[sc91]

3 minutes ago, SouthCoastRed said:

I don't disagree with any of that, my issue is with the claim that the royals forced all this on us, it isn't Charles' fault the FA are idiots

No, but it was in response to the 'admiration' of said royals. More saying that there is an element forced on people by the pedestal the royals are put on simply because they fell out of the right twit.

 

5 minutes ago, The_jagster said:

Football deciding to postpone matches isn't a forced change, as it was done within its own powers. Blaming the monarchy for it would be stupid, if someone wants to protest against the monarchy fine, do that with other justifications but using the postponements would be nonsense, protest against the FA.

Absolutely and I was not aiming towards the royals but more the reverence in which they're held by powers that be, and thus enforced onto the nation, more arguing that are enforced aspects that are inadvertently caused by the sheer existence of the monarchy. 

[Lucas]

10 minutes ago, The_jagster said:

I did wonder whether actually being the monarch would change opinion but I didn't expect it to be this stark

Charles has had it easy so far, a bit of sympathy bounce but he has spoken well and it helps to have a supportive media behind him at the moment. 

What will be a bit strange for me to bear is that if he is outspoken on some issues still, I might well find myself agreeing with him, while at the same time not really liking him taking a political stance  

[TM]

if you want to protest, pick the coronation whenever that happens?

the problem is "he's not my king" so that's the right place, not one when he's burying his mother

[SouthCoastRed]

2 minutes ago, sc91 said:

No, but it was in response to the 'admiration' of said royals. More saying that there is an element forced on people by the pedestal the royals are put on simply because they fell out of the right twit.

I think it was more in response to a misguided view of what public opinion would be. I don’t think they called them off to suck up to Charles, rather they stupidly thought it would be ‘for the best’

 

9 minutes ago, Christmas said:

but yes the Royal family absolutely did choose and want street parades and long national mourning periods.

We both have no way of knowing this or agreeing about it, which makes this argument pointless, but I bet they didn’t, I bet they’d much rather it was much more private so they could grieve privately, but agreed to everything from a sense of duty.

It ****ing hurts to lose your mother, I hope you don’t discover that for a long time. 

[Christmas]

13 minutes ago, SouthCoastRed said:

 

It ****ing hurts to lose your mother, I hope you don’t discover that for a long time. 

Sad you've gone for the high school debate option of ignoring comment for some kind of personal non sequitur. 

Just as irrelevant as your comment but I lost my father suddenly in my teens. I imagine it's similar. Queen was 96.

Are we allowed to discuss on equal footing again or do you have some other pointless issue to raise? Obviously we don't need to keep going and I'm boring myself banging my head against the UK smallminded wall but I can't stand that type of attempted faux mic drop

You say we have no way of knowing whether what I've said is true, despite the fact its been the subject of endless articles over the last decade which mention clearly the queen's input - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_London_Bridge

I'm quite convinced that protesting during a funeral procession isn't a pleasant time to do it form the mourner's perspective. I'm convinced that someone who travels out of their way to gatecrash a private ceremony is in the wrong. 

I'm yet to be convinced that someone going into their own local town centre to be hit with massive shutdowns and nonces and nonce protectors marching about can be said to be in the wrong place to protest. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Christmas

[Net Spend Tony]

10 hours ago, Garethjohn79 said:

Watch channel 183, 00:10 tonight or 21:00 tomorrow, ''Til Death Us Do Part'' to see where some from your brother's generation have got their ideas from, even in the 60's Alf Garnett's views were seen as ridiculous but there are some still now who swear by his view, they will be propping up a bar somewhere.

I think it's the first time it's been repeated in decades, none of the mainstream broadcasters would touch it with a bargepole today and even with the cuts and bleeps it's quite shocking. Just think the BBC had Jim Davidson as it's big Saturday night star only 25 years ago. He was the equivalent of Ant & Dec today.

Thank you I will watch it tonight. I used to watch in sickness and in health and Jim Davidson but don't find him funny now and can see how somethings coukd say then can't say now. I think people need reeducating problem is many have a view in their head and won't change they just believe they are right 

[Crispypaul]

I don't know why "subjects" keeps getting raised considering British citizens have not been referred to such since the passing of the British Nationality Act in the early 1980s.

[Rob1981]

This thread is moving too fast for me, but are we seriously saying people should be allowed to protest in Edinburgh because of the traffic congestion? So not because they disagree with the centuries-old institution, but because they can’t get through to Oddbins?