The_jagster Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 13 minutes ago, Lucas said: Charles has had it easy so far, a bit of sympathy bounce but he has spoken well and it helps to have a supportive media behind him at the moment. What will be a bit strange for me to bear is that if he is outspoken on some issues still, I might well find myself agreeing with him, while at the same time not really liking him taking a political stance Apart from the homeopathy quackery 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted September 13, 2022 Administrators Share Posted September 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Crispypaul said: I don't know why "subjects" keeps getting raised considering British citizens have not been referred to such since the passing of the British Nationality Act in the early 1980s. I don't know, pretty weird for those at the Accession council to just not actually question anything and wave it through as a mere formality. I mean, that's the very definition of subjects. A lot of the pomp and circumstance with all these ceremonies have a lot of quite hideously outdated stuff in them. Though it is fascinating to witness from a constitutional point of view, probably won't get many more chances to witness an actual change of Head of State. Until we end up being able to vote for one of course. Something a lot of monarchists seem to want, to have some sort of say which member of the Royal Family should be monarch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkSport Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 30 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said: Amazing what a few hand shakes and a couple of speeches on TV can do. Why the Tories still thrive higher in the polling then they should be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rob1981 said: This thread is moving too fast for me, but are we seriously saying people should be allowed to protest in Edinburgh because of the traffic congestion? So not because they disagree with the centuries-old institution, but because they can’t get through to Oddbins? No, but because the 'right place to protest' is outside their front door Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispypaul Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, The_jagster said: Apart from the homeopathy quackery Homeopathy is really big in Germany strangely - must be where he gets it from! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 13 minutes ago, Lucas said: A lot of the pomp and circumstance with all these ceremonies have a lot of quite hideously outdated stuff in them. Though it is fascinating to witness from a constitutional point of view, probably won't get many more chances to witness an actual change of Head of State. I'm aiming to outlive Charles. William might be a stretch though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Are people (well one person) complaining about road closures? I've travelled around Edinburgh absolutely fine in recent days by car, by public transport, by walking and by cycling. It's not ideal when areas in the city are closed (it also happens for the festival and other events several times a year) but it's far from the end of the world and it's mainly central areas that are affected. The same areas that usually have the best public transport service for the rest of the time compared to us from the sticks. As for protesting, well that's something we shouldn't take for granted and I'm uncomfortable when people's rights are questioned. However, there's a time and a place so none of us should be surprised that one or two morons think shouting/displaying obscenities will be permitted when thousands more are there to peacefully pay their respects. It's only a literal few so I'd suggest they're best ignored rather than arrested or violence applied but I can understand why the police removed them. I'd imagine the same would happen if many similar situations so it's hardly a pro-Monarchy statement.... There's something very unsettling about the last few days but I will also admit to finding much of it fascinating - from all the traditional (archaic and outdated?) ceremonies to huge numbers of people wanting to file past the coffin of someone they never met. I've found the reaction especially interesting from a Scottish perspective. Ultimately, we'll all move on in week or so's time back into our preferred prejudices and biases. For the time being, I'll enjoy something different happening. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Frankie said: Are people (well one person) complaining about road closures? As for protesting, well that's something we shouldn't take for granted and I'm uncomfortable when people's rights are questioned. However, there's a time and a place so none of us should be surprised that one or two morons think shouting/displaying obscenities will be permitted when thousands more are there to peacefully pay their respects. It's only a literal few so I'd suggest they're best ignored rather than arrested or violence applied but I can understand why the police removed them. I'd imagine the same would happen if many similar situations so it's hardly a pro-Monarchy statement.... No - just saying that road closures on your doorstep invalidate the 'wrong place' argument against protests, especially seeing as I've seen more arrests for non-obscenity protests, than the one singular sign with the F word on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza D Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 41 minutes ago, profii said: 1. Your employer can make you take holiday if they give you notice, for 1 day of, they have to give 2 days notice, so they can get away with that 2. Gricehead is right about the wording of the contract which you have provided, it's not perfectly clear but I would read that as you get your 25 days + bank holidays, next Monday is now a bank holiday, so you dont need to use any of your 25 day up you are getting a free day, raise it with your management. I read it as public holidays are exclusive of my leave so they can do what they like. I have just emailed them asking if having people go unpaid is really for the best with the current cost of living crisis, and would ot not infact be better to allow people to work that day if they prefer, whether that be at home or in the office. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oche balboa Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, Christmas said: No, but because the 'right place to protest' is outside their front door If people like yourself want a Anti-royals/Pro-Republic demonstration and to call Royal Family whatever you want then you should do it say in 3-4 weeks time when the Queen is buried and people have moved on. You not going to get support during this time and its a form of attention seeking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) I don't know why people are going on about Andrew anyway, was watching something on the news yesterday (where the newsreader was looking awkwardly at the person) saying that once the state funeral is finished, Andrew will be removed from public life for the monarchy for good don't think anyone will disagree that has to happen either Edited September 13, 2022 by TM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted September 13, 2022 Administrators Share Posted September 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, TM said: Andrew will be removed from public life for the monarchy for good Except he won't really, if he lives long enough. If we go through this again when Charles dies, Andrew isn't going to make an appearance then either? Really? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, oche balboa said: If people like yourself want a Anti-royals/Pro-Republic demonstration and to call Royal Family whatever you want then you should do it say in 3-4 weeks time when the Queen is buried and people have moved on. You not going to get support during this time and its a form of attention seeking. That's it Ochy - only permit protests where no-one can see them. How do Patel's boots taste? What if your man hauled away in Edinburgh had just had blank paper? There is actually massive support for protests in wider society, as shown by all kinds of polls and supports, even if not a full clear majority one way or the other. It isn't surprising that support isn't overwhelmingly present among those crowding to see a car that may or may not have a dead royal in it, or amongst you, a parochial tory. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthCoastRed Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, Christmas said: I'm yet to be convinced that someone going into their own local town centre to be hit with massive shutdowns and nonces and nonce protectors marching about can be said to be in the wrong place to protest. 11 minutes ago, Christmas said: I'm boring myself banging my head against the UK smallminded wall but I can't stand that type of attempted faux mic drop The rest of your post is very good, but then you do exactly what you accuse me of by deciding that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is smallminded, and everything being done this week is for the benefit of ‘nonce protectors’ Again, I haven’t decried any of the protest viability or the constitution right to do it, it’s not the best of times or locations imo, but each to their own, and from your own linked article The plan was updated three times a year through a meeting involving government department officials, the police, and broadcasters. No mention of monarch involvement. Anyway you and I don’t agree and we’re hijacking the thread, I suggest we leave it there, as we both think we’re right, and one isn’t convincing the other in any way But just one last bit for my ‘attempted mic drop’ there you are sadly wrong, I do genuinely hope your mother leads a long and active life, mine did, but it’s still painful to lose them when the time comes, whether they are 46, 66 or 96 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Moores Mum Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) It's not just about a funeral that's happening right now though, is it? Simultaneously to what is happening in Scotland we have proclamation ceremonies across the UK that makes Charles our new 'Liege Lord'. This didn't stop for a period of grieving/mourning, therefore it's fair to expect people wouldn't stop being against that principle, especially when it is so open and blatant at this time. The whole point of "The Queen is dead, long live the King" is that this **** doesn't stop. Edited September 13, 2022 by ginnybob 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
profii Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, Gazza D said: I read it as public holidays are exclusive of my leave so they can do what they like. I have just emailed them asking if having people go unpaid is really for the best with the current cost of living crisis, and would ot not infact be better to allow people to work that day if they prefer, whether that be at home or in the office. next monday is a public holiday as per the government announcement therefore it is not part of your 25 day allowance and they need to let you have it off stand your ground, its not about the public living crisis, its about them honouring the legal contract they agreed to when they employed you. They shouldnt even be asking people to WFH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Just now, Christmas said: No - just saying that road closures on your doorstep invalidate the 'wrong place' argument against protests, especially seeing as I've seen more arrests for non-obscenity protests, than the one singular sign with the F word on it. There are protest marches fairly regularly in Edinburgh and roads are closed to facilitate. Sometimes I'll agree with these events, sometimes not. It's just life and we get on with it. I don't see the need to complain then or think I'll use the opportunity to protest about something else. Of course these ceremonies are the wrong place for protests - at least the kind of moronic ones we've seen in the last day or two. But thankfully there have only been a tiny number amongst hundreds of thousands of people so it's not a big problem. If a group wanted to organise something more formal then I'm sure they could have been accommodated somewhere locally but I suspect such groups are aware of the context. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter G Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 How are the people already queuing going to be able to, relieve themselves? Will someone keep their place for them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oche balboa Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Christmas said: That's it Ochy - only permit protests where no-one can see them. How do Patel's boots taste? What if your man hauled away in Edinburgh had just had blank paper? There is actually massive support for protests in wider society, as shown by all kinds of polls and supports, even if not a full clear majority one way or the other. It isn't surprising that support isn't overwhelmingly present among those crowding to see a car that may or may not have a dead royal in it, or amongst you, a parochial tory. I support Protests, Not during this bit. People dont want to see it right now get over it. There are ample time to do a protest/support cause in the future Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Peter G said: How are the people already queuing going to be able to, relieve themselves? Will someone keep their place for them? I'd have thought so, the official queue hasn't start yet has it? these are people just taking a chance? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Just now, Peter G said: How are the people already queuing going to be able to, relieve themselves? Will someone keep their place for them? In Edinburgh where the queue begins there's an area where I believe wristbands are handed out with toilets and I believe there are portoloos along the mile or so queuing route. In general the queuing system looks fairly informal so I doubt there's going to be much of a problem if someone needs to lose a few mins to pay a visit if you've already been waiting several hours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthCoastRed Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Peter G said: How are the people already queuing going to be able to, relieve themselves? Will someone keep their place for them? They get armbands with their queue place on them, so they can use a portaloo they go back and queue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted September 13, 2022 Administrators Share Posted September 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Coulthard's Jaw said: I'd have thought so, the official queue hasn't start yet has it? these are people just taking a chance? Someone asked a steward where would they start the queue, so the steward told them and that person has since been on TV saying they are going to stay there and wait. I wonder how that works though. What if they need the toilet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted September 13, 2022 Administrators Share Posted September 13, 2022 @Peter G beat me to it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, Peter G said: How are the people already queuing going to be able to, relieve themselves? Will someone keep their place for them? Heard on the news yesterday, that facilities will be provided - I assume toilets and mobile catering vans (to get food and drink) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Imagine having the armband with 0000001 on it. Stick that on eBay alongside all the Jubilee mugs, you’d never need to work again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
profii Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Peter G said: How are the people already queuing going to be able to, relieve themselves? Will someone keep their place for them? dirty protest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Just now, Rob1981 said: Imagine having the armband with 0000001 on it. Stick that on eBay alongside all the Jubilee mugs, you’d never need to work again. I'm just looking forward to seeing which friend of which MP's company got the armband contract.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthCoastRed Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Rob1981 said: Imagine having the armband with 0000001 on it. Stick that on eBay alongside all the Jubilee mugs, you’d never need to work again. I started queuing in 1968, my life is ruined but dammit I’ll have that armband Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bermybhoy Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) There was a woman who's started informally queuing interviewed last night who is there "because they say it could be a 30 hour wait" to get in. So you're showing up 3 days early to avoid that 30 hour wait. Gotcha Edited September 13, 2022 by bermybhoy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1985 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 I dislike the institution of monarchy because it goes against my basic belief of we are all created equal. Why is a royal any different to me because their ancestor was mates with William the Conquerer whilst mine was knee deep in cow manure in some rural backwater? That should have little to no bearing on our lives 1000 years later. At the same time, I bear no ill will to Elizabeth as a person, after all I never met her. Some of her family can get in the bin however. I’m all for showing respect etc but cancelling cancer appointments and funerals never mind kids football and charity walks because of ‘respect’? Nah, not having it. Have a parade, give people the day off work, fine. I’m also split on the protesting of the monarchy at this time. Yeah I probably broadly agree with them and as it’s as the forefront of peoples minds now, it’s probably a good time to talk about it. But also it doesn’t feel like the right time if you know what I mean? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, mark1985 said: I dislike the institution of monarchy because it goes against my basic belief of we are all created equal. Why is a royal any different to me because their ancestor was mates with William the Conquerer whilst mine was knee deep in cow manure in some rural backwater? That should have little to no bearing on our lives 1000 years later. At the same time, I bear no ill will to Elizabeth as a person, after all I never met her. Some of her family can get in the bin however. I’m all for showing respect etc but cancelling cancer appointments and funerals never mind kids football and charity walks because of ‘respect’? Nah, not having it. Have a parade, give people the day off work, fine. I’m also split on the protesting of the monarchy at this time. Yeah I probably broadly agree with them and as it’s as the forefront of peoples minds now, it’s probably a good time to talk about it. But also it doesn’t feel like the right time if you know what I mean? Know your place, peasant! That's what it's all about. Feudalism still runs a big part of the UK. It's lasted for over 1000 years and 'they' won't give it up without a fight. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oche balboa Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Big Geordie said: Know your place, peasant! That's what it's all about. Feudalism still runs a big part of the UK. It's lasted for over 1000 years and 'they' won't give it up without a fight. BG until you make a bigger, better and compiling case for a Republic then it will continue "They" wont give up without a fight ....Whom? If you want change then make a good argument Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Moores Mum Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, oche balboa said: BG until you make a bigger, better and compiling case for a Republic then it will continue "They" wont give up without a fight ....Whom? If you want change then make a good argument There are plenty of good arguments for a Republic ffs. Just because BG didn't list them in that post doesn't mean there aren't any. You choose not to listen to them. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1985 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, oche balboa said: BG until you make a bigger, better and compiling case for a Republic then it will continue "They" wont give up without a fight ....Whom? If you want change then make a good argument My argument is why are they any more worthy of being the monarch than me? Or you? Or Dave from the pub? Being the head of a country (regardless of how much power they do or don’t have) shouldn’t be down to the lottery of birth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza D Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 1 hour ago, profii said: next monday is a public holiday as per the government announcement therefore it is not part of your 25 day allowance and they need to let you have it off stand your ground, its not about the public living crisis, its about them honouring the legal contract they agreed to when they employed you. They shouldnt even be asking people to WFH. Thank you, I shall go to them with this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titchuk Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, mark1985 said: My argument is why are they any more worthy of being the monarch than me? Or you? Or Dave from the pub? Being the head of a country (regardless of how much power they do or don’t have) shouldn’t be down to the lottery of birth. Take it up with mark1032 who, as you yourself admit on the last page, was messing around in cow manure in some rural backwater rather than leading a large army across the sea. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bermybhoy Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Now there's a woman in Edinburgh who's "been round" 7 times. That's a lot of respect being paid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthCoastRed Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 19 minutes ago, mark1985 said: My argument is why are they any more worthy of being the monarch than me? Or you? Or Dave from the pub? Being the head of a country (regardless of how much power they do or don’t have) shouldn’t be down to the lottery of birth. Now I understand why you moved to Boston, you tea stealing inbred colonial scum. There isn’t a drop of pure German blood in your veins, you have no connection to Ze Glorious Third Reich, errrrr Royal Family Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 24 minutes ago, ginnybob said: There are plenty of good arguments for a Republic ffs. Just because BG didn't list them in that post doesn't mean there aren't any. You choose not to listen to them. Aye. But realistically unless the public sentiment changes enough it's not going to happen anytime soon. No politician who ever realistically wants to be elected will breathe that point, and there's enough of the country that, while not necessarily bring royalists, is sort of ok with the monarchy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, SouthCoastRed said: <stuff in response to a jackass> Most people have him on ignore for a reason. Edited September 13, 2022 by Ackter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oche balboa Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 44 minutes ago, ginnybob said: There are plenty of good arguments for a Republic ffs. Just because BG didn't list them in that post doesn't mean there aren't any. You choose not to listen to them. I do listen to them....I was talking about generally not BG or you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Moores Mum Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said: Aye. But realistically unless the public sentiment changes enough it's not going to happen anytime soon. No politician who ever realistically wants to be elected will breathe that point, and there's enough of the country that, while not necessarily bring royalists, is sort of ok with the monarchy Yeah, it's not something I expect in the near future. As with other things (reversal of Brexit for one) we're reliant on older generations dying off and the younger ones wanting change. We'll likely be onto William by that point. Edited September 13, 2022 by ginnybob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza D Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 1 hour ago, profii said: next monday is a public holiday as per the government announcement therefore it is not part of your 25 day allowance and they need to let you have it off stand your ground, its not about the public living crisis, its about them honouring the legal contract they agreed to when they employed you. They shouldnt even be asking people to WFH. They have replied. "The annual leave entitlement is 25 days excluding Bank Holidays, contractually we have not stipulated the number of bank holidays or whether they are paid or not." Then some screenshot saying there's no legal entitlement to bank holidays off. "You don't actually have to grant employees bank holidays or public holidays as paid leave. There's no legal precedent that says these must be paid. As an employer, it is entirely up to you whether you choose to offer bank holidays as paid leave. Whatever you do choose, your employees' entitlement to paid leave should always be outlined in the employment contract." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oche balboa Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Plenty of people here who are Republicans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_advocates_of_republicanism_in_the_United_Kingdom#Individuals_(living)) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc91 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 16 minutes ago, ginnybob said: Yeah, it's not something I expect in the near future. As with other things (reversal of Brexit for one) we're reliant on older generations dying off and the younger ones wanting change. We'll likely be onto William by that point. One of those that's probably a geographical and class split as well, young middle-class I know are very pro-monarchy for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1985 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 42 minutes ago, SouthCoastRed said: Now I understand why you moved to Boston, you tea stealing inbred colonial scum. There isn’t a drop of pure German blood in your veins, you have no connection to Ze Glorious Third Reich, errrrr Royal Family Yeah no connections to the Third Reich. None at all. Nope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter G Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 55 minutes ago, bermybhoy said: Now there's a woman in Edinburgh who's "been round" 7 times. That's a lot of respect being paid. Did she get lost inside? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carninho Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, Gazza D said: They have replied. "The annual leave entitlement is 25 days excluding Bank Holidays, contractually we have not stipulated the number of bank holidays or whether they are paid or not." Then some screenshot saying there's no legal entitlement to bank holidays off. "You don't actually have to grant employees bank holidays or public holidays as paid leave. There's no legal precedent that says these must be paid. As an employer, it is entirely up to you whether you choose to offer bank holidays as paid leave. Whatever you do choose, your employees' entitlement to paid leave should always be outlined in the employment contract." My mrs works at a doctors surgery 4 days a week all bank holidays come out of her holiday entitlement which is **** she has booked up all her holiday for the rest of the year, so if they close the surgery on Monday she could end up owing them time/money which is mental Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_fenton Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 We're all getting a day added on to our annual leave allowance here despite not being contractually obligated to, which is nice. Complete luck of the draw though, and I'm luck to be working for a smaller company where that's quite straightforward for a director to decide straight away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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