[FM23] Age of Empires

[GIMN]

Outstanding stuff!  Whilst I'm not one to suggest you'd jump ship at the earliest opportunity, but surely - even after such little time in charge - "bigger" clubs must be looking for your services.  Have you been linked with any moves?

[SixPointer]

Congrats on the promotion Ben! Not messing around at all!

[_Ben_]

14 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

Amazing work on the promotion. That thing about no-one filling in for your left-back when he was off having treatment - that sounds like a bug, no?

Also amazed that you've signed a player I've also head of in Tore. Really could be a dash of genuine quality. I haven't played in the Turkish second tier before but I can't imagine it's the strongest league in the world.

It does feel like a bug, yes, but I've never really seen it before to judge whether it should be happening and whether my players are actually good enough to ensure that it does.

I really hope so Tore is the game-changer. I've found recruiting in my normal way almost impossible this summer as the players who want to join us simply aren't playing football at any level!

14 hours ago, GIMN said:

Outstanding stuff!  Whilst I'm not one to suggest you'd jump ship at the earliest opportunity, but surely - even after such little time in charge - "bigger" clubs must be looking for your services.  Have you been linked with any moves?

Absolutely. I didn't expect promotion and nor do I think it's particularly realistic to fly through the leagues but, given the time it now takes me to get through games and months, I want to give myself enough time to have a proper crack at Serie A/Champions League at some point in this iteration (which is odd as the game isn't even out yet). I'd happily six this out for six months to make a sideways move to another second tier team, with a much bigger financial and fan base and a better reputation, and see where I can go from there. Given the last season, I back myself to turn a club around so I'd happily drop down a few positions if we're not dead last!

Here are my stats, so far:

If I go back to FM21 and FM22 - I recall that my first jobs: Meyrin and Mashuk (must have a thing about teams starting with an 'M'!) lasted under a year as I moved on quite quickly. At Meyrin, I won promotion and then managed to jump another league to the second tier, just midway through my second season whereas, at Mashuk, I took the Anji job as a fallen giant in the same league.

If I look at this second tier, there are a few clubs with some really good pedigree that have fallen from the Super Lig in the past few years:

I'd happily move to anyone with a better rating than ours and see where I go can from there!

3 hours ago, SixPointer said:

Congrats on the promotion Ben! Not messing around at all!

Thanks! Didn't get to finish with Groningen so eager to make some quicker moves here, although I want it to still feel realistic and not that I'm just winning everything. I think the big difference I'm seeing on the pitch is the quality (or lack of it) of the players but I've never been this tactically engrossed at this kind of level before! One day, I'll be able to start developing players and using more detailed stats to measure them - which is what I'd built the skin for!

[Sonic Youth]

I’ve caught up, which means I’m behind with other threads  

You moved quickly and slowly, with promotion a just reward for your efforts 

Congrats!

The skin looks very interesting and shows how much you’ve learnt from the past few FM editions to craft it.

This season coming looks open, and it will be curious to see what you end up doing. Hmm, sticking or twisting? That is the question.

[Tommo_]

Top work on the turnaround and promotion - looking forward to more. 

[_Ben_]

July 2023

A rag-tag group of incoming transfers built around some statistical work and then a lot of DoF usage, which, at this level, isn't far off what would be realistic. "Oi, scout, find me a new left winger that can play football!" Would be the question and Alpay Kocakli might be the answer. Fresh from a, well, erm.. spell, at Sanliurfaspor, in the same league that we played in last year. His overall statistics tell me he made 18(7) appearances for a total of 1,562 minutes with two goals from 3.01 xG and three assists from 2.89 xA.

Overall, his metrics aren't amazing, except for one...

Dribbles.

He sits proudly in the best quadrant for progressive dribbling, for me, meaning that he dribbles and is then able to lay the ball off before being fouled. Whilst winning fouls is all well and good, Mr Grealish at Villa springs to mind, the ability to lay the ball off first is also important to me here. Not quite dynamite, but pacey enough and a decent bit of agility to him, I think that he could be a pretty solid find from the recruitment team.

Next in is Serdarcan Eralp, from Genclerbirgili, who play at the level we play at right now. With 18(14) appearances, two goals from 2.71 xG, six assists from 5.72 xA, he's, again, nothing spectacular. However, for a team that finished in the bottom half and a player who didn't not get many starting minutes, to be in the green quadrant again for Attacking Output is a really strong position to be in. An assist every three games, roughly, is a pretty strong metric for a player if they were playing from the start each week and that's what he's hitting off the bench. I look forward to seeing how he and Gokhan Tore play the AM role for us.

Ozan Oruc comes in as a player who I want to learn to develop. On loan at non-league 1922 Konyaspor, he's somehow prevented 0.26 xG - but I know that these metrics don't work in leagues that aren't modelled. I'm more interested in the 76% save rate - which is good but also the fact that he's held 23 shots put parried 75. A clear sign of an eccentric kid who needs some grounding. However, my recruitment team raved about his potential and decided that he'd be worth a gamble.

The National-2 is hardly a place where talent is developed but that is where last incoming of the moth, loanee Elhadj Bah, spent last season, on loan from Samsunspor. Six goals, from 6.41xG and no assists from 1.64xG are, again, not great but he's experienced open age football and offers me some much needed Pace off the bench for a year. He has played at this level before, albeit briefly for Samsunspor and his wage demands are fairly comfortable.

It feels, and looks, thanks to this chart - like an old squad and is lacking anything developmental and certainly anything academy based, which is not where I want to end up. However, at this stage - to be able to have a squad of twenty-odd players who, with the right coaching and tactical nous, could stay in this division, feels a million miles better than what I saw at the end of May!

---

Pre-season is a time for me to put some finishing touches to our style, with, in particular, focus on our defensive play, which was terrible even as a strong team in the league.

We still have a couple of games left of pre-season as I've looked to go fairly intense with friendlies in order to bed in our new recruits and ensure that fitness is not another barrier, behind, possibly, ability, in order for us to get results. We warmed up with a good trio of wins against teams of lesser standing than us in the domestic game but threw a 2-0 lead away against Panionios, of the Greek second tier. Whilst I always make a full eleven changes at half time, this was a pretty poor end result for a game that we battled really hard in. There is nothing particularly tactical I felt about the concessions as I look to build on my shape and am currently at this point:

A couple of amendments to our shape from last year - with the creativity of Sahverdi Cetin, I've opted for a DLP rather than a DM and that may also decrease the passing length, although I still want us to go from back to front, quickly, but, ideally, through the players rather than up and over. As I cannot have an IWB with two defensive midfielders, I've asked the FB(s) on the left to sit a little narrower and cut inside, hopefully filling the gap vacated in transitional play. In our first friendly, you can see, roughly, the attacking shape - as we move into a 2-4-1-3 kind of position. I, ideally, want free roam for that AM between the lines and am happy that I have most vertical areas covered although there is a general lack of width on the left hand side now. With the build up here happening on the left, he is also a little further forward than he would be when we move down the right and that creates more of a 3-3-1-3 shape for us. I may tip the Pass Into Space on but that is game dependent on the opposition and whether we have full vertical corridors free, but, in the instance above, I didn't feel it would be beneficial to us.

The main changes come in terms of out of possession shape. I've moved to a complete Low Block now but have increased the Defensive Line in order to really compact the shape. To make us a little harder to break down, still, I've told the team to Regroup when we lose the ball. I know that this may impact our ability to win the first and second ball - something I lamented last season, but, with the amount of long balls I'm seeing at this level, getting ourselves back into position is key. Not shown here, and often opposition dependent is the Trap Outside instruction - which will make our shape narrower and naturally push players out wide. We have a relatively tall defence, the sixth highest in the league and plenty of cover on the flanks - a conservative full back or a defensive minded DM. You can see in this extreme example - with Panionios chasing the game - that we are still quite narrow and compact vertically with quite a high line. Unfortunately, we offer no pressure to the centre backs, who, annoyingly, are able to ping a 60 yard pass between our lines and they finish - but that's a rare occurrence. If it starts happening all of the time - I'll do something about it, but, like a screamer from 25 yards, sometimes I just accept that it happens and move on!

I hope that this shape can merge defensive solidarity with direct, counter attacking football and then we can also do our thing at set pieces, which, strangely, looks a lot like what the board also want...

[Shrewnaldo]

Did those Board Culture items change from last year? Wondering if they've just asked you for more of the same / you are setting club culture.

The inability to use an IWB when there's a DM on that side is very annoying. Less so in your instance where the DLP is unlikely to vacate the area too often but it should still be an option.

[Chris_ANZFM]

Always fascinating hearing you analyse the incomings and how they’ll fit into the plans going forward. Even if the match engine doesn’t always quite represent the idea you had in mind. 

[GIMN]

4 hours ago, _Ben_ said:

Surely "sign players for the first team" should have been enough of an objective, given the amount of reinforcements you needed!  Eralp and Bah look like very good pickups - I might be being harsh to Turkish football, but both look like they could be rotational players in the Super Lig (maybe not for one of the top teams, granted).

How has the lack of width on the left-hand side played out?  Are you finding attacks breaking down on that side when things become crowded, or is having the DLP there helping to recycle possession when the need arises?

[_Ben_]

8 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

Did those Board Culture items change from last year? Wondering if they've just asked you for more of the same / you are setting club culture.

5 hours ago, GIMN said:

Surely "sign players for the first team" should have been enough of an objective, given the amount of reinforcements you needed!

Yeah, I had nothing set in stone last year so these are basically crafted around my own play style, which is good. The tight defence, however, might not be the easiest to achieve.

---

6 hours ago, Chris_ANZFM said:

Always fascinating hearing you analyse the incomings and how they’ll fit into the plans going forward.

5 hours ago, GIMN said:

Eralp and Bah look like very good pickups - I might be being harsh to Turkish football, but both look like they could be rotational players in the Super Lig (maybe not for one of the top teams, granted).

Thanks! I agree that Eralp, in particular, looks strong. Hopefully we can be a team that is greater than the sum of it's parts and do pretty well!

----

8 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

The inability to use an IWB when there's a DM on that side is very annoying. Less so in your instance where the DLP is unlikely to vacate the area too often but it should still be an option.

6 hours ago, Chris_ANZFM said:

Even if the match engine doesn’t always quite represent the idea you had in mind. 

5 hours ago, GIMN said:

How has the lack of width on the left-hand side played out?  Are you finding attacks breaking down on that side when things become crowded, or is having the DLP there helping to recycle possession when the need arises?

Tactically, we're naïve, but, I guess I expect that given our level and lack of team cohesion due to half a new team! I've played the first two matches and delved into a little bit more detail with some screenshots and will add the depth to go with over the new few days. It's going to be a long old season!

[SixPointer]

Tactics starting to take shape now! How’s the low block treating you? I’ve yet to decide my main save or what tactical approach is going to be. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Just catching up with this now @_Ben_Did your eyes literally light up when you saw the xG and xGa (or whatever xG against is called)? It seems like a horrendous case of miss-management by the previous regime at Menemenspor. I love it when I take over at clubs in this situation. It's almost impossible to fail and offers you a nice little springboard to jump into the save with. 

Can't wait to fully catch up and see what you're capable of with them in a short period. 👏

Ps. Where did the old Manager go next and is he doing as badly there? (My guess is yes). 😂

Edited November 2, 2022 by Jimbokav1971

[Boycott]

Interesting idea. I like the overlap between managing obscure teams in obscure places that once had historical significance. It adds a new dynamic to a journeyman type save. 

[_Ben_]

On 01/11/2022 at 20:32, SixPointer said:

Tactics starting to take shape now! How’s the low block treating you? I’ve yet to decide my main save or what tactical approach is going to be. 

Early days so far but, combined with a higher line, seems to replicate the ultra-compact shape I managed to make previously.

On 02/11/2022 at 11:10, Jimbokav1971 said:

Just catching up with this now @_Ben_Did your eyes literally light up when you saw the xG and xGa (or whatever xG against is called)? It seems like a horrendous case of miss-management by the previous regime at Menemenspor. I love it when I take over at clubs in this situation. It's almost impossible to fail and offers you a nice little springboard to jump into the save with. 

Can't wait to fully catch up and see what you're capable of with them in a short period. 👏

Ps. Where did the old Manager go next and is he doing as badly there? (My guess is yes). 😂

Thanks Jim! I'm really enjoying it and, yes, the time here has certainly padded the stats for my win rate, although I know that'll slow down this term. The old manager is unemployed, which is no surprise really given his 3-3-7 record before I took charge.

On 02/11/2022 at 18:09, Boycott said:

Interesting idea. I like the overlap between managing obscure teams in obscure places that once had historical significance. It adds a new dynamic to a journeyman type save. 

Many thanks - not really dug into it much yet, but hope to do so as time goes on.

[_Ben_]

August 2023

August has been a baptism of fire to the new league for us! Three points from nine, or 1 PPG won't be enough, based on last season's results, to keep us up. I know it's early days but we have to find ways to keep a little more solid at the back, something which haunted us even as a strong team last season. My problems seem to be deeper though, with me dealing with this issue on a weekly basis:

Only Kerem Paykoc is trained at the club and a look at anyone else who is also trained at club leads to nothing, aside from Caglar Soyuncu, who I doubt would be happy to drop down to the second tier from Lyon! Looks like it will be spaces on the bench, which isn't ideal when I can use up to five of ten subs in this division.

---

Eyupspor 1-0 Menemenspor

Away at a side that finished eighth last season was always going to be a tough start but we battled well, if a little naïve going forward. Star striker from last year Ali got the start but, really, was not to blame for our poor showing in front of goal. When you look at our passing stats, above (left is long, middle is medium and right is short), you can see the big issue that we have with our direct play right now - it's just not sticking. To lose possession nearly as many times as we have completed  along pass is nearly as worrying as the ease of the other passes - with  2.6% of all sideways passes being key and 2.2% of all progressive passes being key, despite the poor completion of them. These stats corroborate with what I saw - we either went long and lost it most of the time, or went short and played it around the defence. Something to think about!

Their goal was probably the fault of nobodies, although I would have liked stronger hands from the keeper. A deflected cross can go anywhere and, despite our marking not quite being as I would have wanted, there is no real need for an inquisition here. You win some and you lose some like this and I'm not too disheartened as, overall, we were defensively pretty strong.

---

Adanaspor 3-2 Menemenspor

An absolutely gut-wrenching defeat here. 2-0 up with fifteen left and we come away with nothing.

Bah's goal and our threat and want to counter attack is great and something that we'll really need to perfect at this level to be successful and we raced into a two nil lead with Alpay's first goal for us - a shot from a corner. I don't have a lot to say about our their first goal - we maybe should have won the first header and, because we didn't, left their winger open to finish easily but that, again, feels like semantics and just some polishing of positioning. However, their second goal was absolutely down to some awful goalkeeper positioning and left me feeling absolutely furious. The third goal is just a complete capitulation and we just look absolutely unable to stop anything. It's a heart-breaking moment as our attacking play as really good until then and maybe just a pass or two short of getting the final ball right and leading to a goal-scoring chance. It's one of those where - as you can see from the line up, where I have to ease the five new faces in and get them happy and suited to my team. Play like that again and I think we'll win just as many as we don't!

A little experiment saw me change the role of Cetin following a race into a 2-0 lead. As DLP(s), his passing range wasn't great and that makes me consider how important a designated playmaker is in a compact, counter attacking formation - instead maybe using a DM role with a few customised tweaks to allow him to become a kind of quarter back. Here is his pass map as DM(s), which, as I said - doesn't show much difference and bodes well for the future, if only to stop the moves where the ball goes back to him, or stops for him - like these eighteen received passes.

At this point, we have now lost the same number of games this season already as I did in the entirety of last season. But...

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Menemenspor 2-0 Genclibirigi

We're on the board! But, arguably, our worst performance of the season to date. I guess that's to be expected when a low block meets a 4-4-2 mid/low block with limited pressing from wide, with, probably, a similar level of playing quality. Both goals were low xG chances as our opener, Eralp's first for the club, flew into the back of the net and we doubled our lead with a fizzing effort from Bah after a quick turnover in possession. With twenty-one unsuccessful crosses and just four key passes - down from twelve against Adanspor - it was really not the most beautiful free flowing game but we left with three points and some more confidence. Although they didn't add anything extra today, I am quite happy with the 'make the most of set plays' instruction from the board, as that kind of thing will certainly help us when we face games like this.

---

Early season but we're out of the drop zone and I would love it to stay that way!

[SteinkelssonFM]

Not the ideal start but one which no doubt has you spending a little more time in the analysis screens than usual. With regards to the DM tweaks, was this simply 'take more risks'? 

[danielgear]

Whilst on paper 3 from 9 seems bad, results of other teams around you have gone in your favour. Hopefully these three games can be looked back on as “competitive preseason” to actually see where your team is at in terms of this level and highlights the areas that need focus and addressing. 
Going forward if you can improve the results in September things will be looking much better in a month. 

[SixPointer]

Tough start, but I find in these moments it when we learn the most tactically about our team, especially their capabilities and what they can actually execute.  

[Sonic Youth]

Recruitment looked good. It’s time now to bed them into the team and the team into the league 

[_Ben_]

On 03/11/2022 at 20:45, MattyLewis11 said:

With regards to the DM tweaks, was this simply 'take more risks'?

Yes, exactly that. Two DM(s) to create a bit of a double pivot but the creator has More Risk and Dribble more whereas the shuttler has Fewer Risks and Stay Wider to cover the overlapping full back. Not attempted to have him marking an opposition winger, yet, but that's something that might happen on a game by game basis.

@danielgear, @SixPointer and @Sonic Youth-

Thanks for the comments! I very much feel like a Premier League manager during an interview saying that 'we're doing well and I like what I'm seeing in parts' but it's true - our build up play is really improving and we are looking a little more defensively solid. I guess that this is partly because it's happening but partly because I feel more confident in what I'm looking for and being able to deal with situations that happen in game.

We're definitely growing into this league but, it's one of those where I feel that I won't see out the season here, despite the hard work I've put in! Not because of being sacked but because of the lure of a team with some kind of youth academy (all this skinning work and zero use with player development) and a team with a stronger infrastructure. 

[GIMN]

Losing both your opening away games probably isn't too much of a surprise.  A host of new faces settling in and a step up in competition.  The (literally) poor man's Nottingham Forest.  A home win against Genclibirigi's got to be encouraging, surely.  I don't know quite how far they've fallen since their spells in Europe, but they're a team I've heard of, so I assume they're at least decent.

You've mentioned a few goalkeeping errors/disappointments - is this because of a lack of quality, or just going through a rough patch?

[_Ben_]

1 hour ago, GIMN said:

Losing both your opening away games probably isn't too much of a surprise.  A host of new faces settling in and a step up in competition.  The (literally) poor man's Nottingham Forest.  A home win against Genclibirigi's got to be encouraging, surely.  I don't know quite how far they've fallen since their spells in Europe, but they're a team I've heard of, so I assume they're at least decent.

You've mentioned a few goalkeeping errors/disappointments - is this because of a lack of quality, or just going through a rough patch?

We're getting there. Just writing up September and it's much better than August! Genclibirgili is the team I have my eyes on, should the opportunity arise. They're a much bigger club in terms of infrastructure than ourselves and, despite not playing well this season, could be a club I can spend a couple of years at, building a nice base to get into the top flight with. Just look at the comparison of them on the left and us on the right:

---

Both keepers have played pretty poorly, if I'm honest. They aren't up to standard and there are so many times when I'm literally shouting 'SAVE THAT!' at my screen!

  

[GIMN]

13 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

We're getting there. Just writing up September and it's much better than August! Genclibirgili is the team I have my eyes on, should the opportunity arise. They're a much bigger club in terms of infrastructure than ourselves and, despite not playing well this season, could be a club I can spend a couple of years at, building a nice base to get into the top flight with. Just look at the comparison of them on the left and us on the right:

---

Both keepers have played pretty poorly, if I'm honest. They aren't up to standard and there are so many times when I'm literally shouting 'SAVE THAT!' at my screen!

  

Ozer clearly has a haggard portrait in his attic masking his aging and debauchery.  I imagine that's why he's so "well-travelled".  He needs to keep moving out of fear of being uncovered - surely he's too distracted to focus on playing well.

[_Ben_]

September 2023

#

That is more like it!

Armed with some lovely new Joma kits (see below - with thanks to the magical program of Kitbasher) we are well underway in my second season at the club. After the tough start to the season, to pick up ten points this month feels great but I know not to get carried away - the season is long, our squad is short of depth and teams will become wise to how I set up against them.

---

Caykur Rizespor 1-1 Menemenspor

The low block working it's magic again!

Caykur are in just their second season at this level after a period of yo-yoing between here and the top tier and are predicted to be near the top of the league this season. I also noted that they lie fourth in final third passes for and top in final third passes against as well as having a huge 70% of the ball this season. I knew that our job would be to just allow them to have the ball but a long way from our goal. Looking at the left hand side pass info - you can see that 405 of their 629 passes were in their half, which equates to around two thirds, whereas ours - a measly 86, equates to around half. Our compact shape made it hard for their forwards to find space - completely less than 100 - 14% - of the team's total passes. We went behind thanks a ball through the channels where, maybe, if my DM had been picking up the runners instead of shielding space, we'd have been better off but I'm not too disappointed at our overall shape. The equaliser was a nicely worked move finished by Ekrem in a pretty rare foray into their area. 

There are many positives to take from this and I really feel like we're starting to do the best we can with the squad that we have.

---

Menemenspor 3-1 Pendikspor

A strong win against league leading Pendikspor!

I know it's early in the campaign but this turn of form, especially after the results last month, is a fantastic thing to witness, and, you have to argue to that our performance warranted this. One thing we need to get better at - though - is the great compact shape, with no pressure, then turning into a through ball and causing us all kinds of problems. Our first goal was fortunate - a defensive error that we have been on the end of so many times before has finally came out as a positive for us. However, again, we were immediately pegged back, before I had chance to change the shape, talk to the players or anything. There is clearly a lack of Determination and Concentration within the team to deal with, literally anything, when we are fresh off the elation of scoring. We did go ahead, thanks to a strong header before a near post header sealed the win for us. It would have been more emphatic still if Bah hadn't missed a penalty to seal his hattrick.

More great stuff as we climb the table again.

---

Tuzlaspor 0-2 Menemenspor

An easier game on paper but one that we deserved to win never the less.

We opened from the penalty spot before Ekrem scored to put us out of sight. I am still growing into the low block/high line business but it's clear that it's working in terms of how we stand off opponents, allowing them a league high of 4.10 passes between each of our defensive actions. Once again, a very happy manager!

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Menemenspor 2-0 Giresunspor

Five unbeaten now and we're really getting into our groove.

Bah, proving himself to be a shrewd acquisition, opened the scoring with a header before Ali doubled our lead with a wonderful finish.

However, I must make comment about our playing style, of late. I don't want us to be a long ball team but, at this level, with this quality of player, we will sometimes look like one. That was true when we came close thanks to a ball through the channels and a lovely round of the keeper from Bah. It's not the long ball style that's the biggest difference in terms of my desired play, it's the change that I'm seeing in terms of my own tactical preferences from my save last year. I really like to overload the middle and use strong, all round 8's to dominate and score goals - but, obviously, here I'm playing with two 6's and a 10. I'm finding the 10, usually Serdecan, to play well but still not be able to get into goalscoring positions as much as I would want him to.

This shape also sees me have, essentially, a fluid front four (perfect) but a four that are so far ahead of the play that there is usually little time for anyone to get forward and into the box (less than perfect when looking for numerical overloads). It's potentially, a little silly to change things whilst we are winning but it's worth considering that eight goals have come from crosses in the last ten games but our cross completion is a mere 18%:

We've scored eight times from the twenty seven we have completed (29%) but we've actually scored eight from the 150 we have attempted (5.3%). For me - through balls are and counter attacks are the perfect combination (on the eye, as the manager) and that's something that I will need to look to address, tactically, despite our good form right now.

---

Very much moving in the right direction here with the top scorer in the league. I've got one eye out for any job availability and, to strengthen that case, have started a coaching course. Overall, my first thirty-four games in management, at Menemenspor, have gone pretty well!

[SixPointer]

19 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

September 2023

#

That is more like it!

Armed with some lovely new Joma kits (see below - with thanks to the magical program of Kitbasher) we are well underway in my second season at the club. After the tough start to the season, to pick up ten points this month feels great but I know not to get carried away - the season is long, our squad is short of depth and teams will become wise to how I set up against them.

---

Caykur Rizespor 1-1 Menemenspor

The low block working it's magic again!

Caykur are in just their second season at this level after a period of yo-yoing between here and the top tier and are predicted to be near the top of the league this season. I also noted that they lie fourth in final third passes for and top in final third passes against as well as having a huge 70% of the ball this season. I knew that our job would be to just allow them to have the ball but a long way from our goal. Looking at the left hand side pass info - you can see that 405 of their 629 passes were in their half, which equates to around two thirds, whereas ours - a measly 86, equates to around half. Our compact shape made it hard for their forwards to find space - completely less than 100 - 14% - of the team's total passes. We went behind thanks a ball through the channels where, maybe, if my DM had been picking up the runners instead of shielding space, we'd have been better off but I'm not too disappointed at our overall shape. The equaliser was a nicely worked move finished by Ekrem in a pretty rare foray into their area. 

There are many positives to take from this and I really feel like we're starting to do the best we can with the squad that we have.

---

Menemenspor 3-1 Pendikspor

A strong win against league leading Pendikspor!

I know it's early in the campaign but this turn of form, especially after the results last month, is a fantastic thing to witness, and, you have to argue to that our performance warranted this. One thing we need to get better at - though - is the great compact shape, with no pressure, then turning into a through ball and causing us all kinds of problems. Our first goal was fortunate - a defensive error that we have been on the end of so many times before has finally came out as a positive for us. However, again, we were immediately pegged back, before I had chance to change the shape, talk to the players or anything. There is clearly a lack of Determination and Concentration within the team to deal with, literally anything, when we are fresh off the elation of scoring. We did go ahead, thanks to a strong header before a near post header sealed the win for us. It would have been more emphatic still if Bah hadn't missed a penalty to seal his hattrick.

More great stuff as we climb the table again.

---

Tuzlaspor 0-2 Menemenspor

An easier game on paper but one that we deserved to win never the less.

We opened from the penalty spot before Ekrem scored to put us out of sight. I am still growing into the low block/high line business but it's clear that it's working in terms of how we stand off opponents, allowing them a league high of 4.10 passes between each of our defensive actions. Once again, a very happy manager!

---

Menemenspor 2-0 Giresunspor

Five unbeaten now and we're really getting into our groove.

Bah, proving himself to be a shrewd acquisition, opened the scoring with a header before Ali doubled our lead with a wonderful finish.

However, I must make comment about our playing style, of late. I don't want us to be a long ball team but, at this level, with this quality of player, we will sometimes look like one. That was true when we came close thanks to a ball through the channels and a lovely round of the keeper from Bah. It's not the long ball style that's the biggest difference in terms of my desired play, it's the change that I'm seeing in terms of my own tactical preferences from my save last year. I really like to overload the middle and use strong, all round 8's to dominate and score goals - but, obviously, here I'm playing with two 6's and a 10. I'm finding the 10, usually Serdecan, to play well but still not be able to get into goalscoring positions as much as I would want him to.

This shape also sees me have, essentially, a fluid front four (perfect) but a four that are so far ahead of the play that there is usually little time for anyone to get forward and into the box (less than perfect when looking for numerical overloads). It's potentially, a little silly to change things whilst we are winning but it's worth considering that eight goals have come from crosses in the last ten games but our cross completion is a mere 18%:

We've scored eight times from the twenty seven we have completed (29%) but we've actually scored eight from the 150 we have attempted (5.3%). For me - through balls are and counter attacks are the perfect combination (on the eye, as the manager) and that's something that I will need to look to address, tactically, despite our good form right now.

---

Very much moving in the right direction here with the top scorer in the league. I've got one eye out for any job availability and, to strengthen that case, have started a coaching course. Overall, my first thirty-four games in management, at Menemenspor, have gone pretty well!

Loving the tactical insight Ben! Do you feel the low block had massively improved from last edition? You will be a good judge as it something you have used previously 

[_Ben_]

October 2023

Altinordu 1-0 Menemenspor

The unbeaten streak has ended, but we have gone down in a game where nine times out of ten, we'd have won.

I decided to trial Serdecen as an AM and you can see his pass map left as CM(a) and pass map right as AM(s) - not hugely different. When also comparing the heat map - last game (left) against four previous games - you can see that it's pulled the team together a little more, which, hopefully, will ease the way that we can counter attack

---

But then this happened...

I've made a brave decision, putting all my eggs into one basket - removing any compensation issues and the distraction of managing a club I may soon be leaving. Fingers crossed that this actually works!

[danielgear]

1 hour ago, _Ben_ said:

October 2023

Altinordu 1-0 Menemenspor

The unbeaten streak has ended, but we have gone down in a game where nine times out of ten, we'd have won.

I decided to trial Serdecen as an AM and you can see his pass map left as CM(a) and pass map right as AM(s) - not hugely different. When also comparing the heat map - last game (left) against four previous games - you can see that it's pulled the team together a little more, which, hopefully, will ease the way that we can counter attack

---

But then this happened...

I've made a brave decision, putting all my eggs into one basket - removing any compensation issues and the distraction of managing a club I may soon be leaving. Fingers crossed that this actually works!

Hope it works Ben, Great start to the season overall

[keeper#1]

1 hour ago, _Ben_ said:

October 2023

Altinordu 1-0 Menemenspor

The unbeaten streak has ended, but we have gone down in a game where nine times out of ten, we'd have won.

I decided to trial Serdecen as an AM and you can see his pass map left as CM(a) and pass map right as AM(s) - not hugely different. When also comparing the heat map - last game (left) against four previous games - you can see that it's pulled the team together a little more, which, hopefully, will ease the way that we can counter attack

---

But then this happened...

I've made a brave decision, putting all my eggs into one basket - removing any compensation issues and the distraction of managing a club I may soon be leaving. Fingers crossed that this actually works!

Push all the chips to the middle!

Edited November 6, 2022 by keeper#1

[Sonic Youth]

Going to say you are doing well in the new league, though will need to change that to were 

Tactics looked promising and starting to become coherent, moving in a direct that could compete with teams at the top of the table.

I guess we’ll find out what happens soon 

[GIMN]

8 hours ago, _Ben_ said:

But then this happened...

I've made a brave decision, putting all my eggs into one basket - removing any compensation issues and the distraction of managing a club I may soon be leaving. Fingers crossed that this actually works!

Oh wow, you ain't messing around.  I hope it works out, truly, but this feels like splitting from your partner because you heard that Gisele Bundchen is now single.

[_Ben_]

November 2023 - Takeover Report

It worked!

As the days went on, I did become a little worried that I wasn't going to be offered the job but I did feel that there were other options - Caykur Rizespor had also sacked their manager and, on paper, they've got nearly a top flight squad (with wages to match) and there was once-a-bigger-club Denzilspor, now in the third tier, who, even there, were probably stronger than Menemenspor, too. I think cutting my ties with the Izmir side was probably the right thing to do - it showed me ambition to get my name out there and move to a better club and it appears that I have done exactly that. Within a month, the contract was signed and I'm in the door of my second job. A team that is in a bit of a mess (unbeaten in three, though and note how Menemenspor have lost every game since I left) but one that is an absolute fit for how I love to play Football Manager.

Genclerbirligi are a club based in the capital city of Ankara, some 600km west of Izmir, where I managed previously. Gencler have a bit of European pedigree and, like @GIMN, I actually knew of them before taking this job. Their best run was reaching the fourth round of the Uefa Cup in 2004, beating the likes of Blackburn, Parma and Sporting before losing to Valencia. Nicknamed 'Gencler' which literally translates to The Youth, they are perfect for my plans of player development since they possess some wonderful youth and training facilities - for any level in world football, let alone the Turkish second tier. They got this nickname after, literally, being founded by a group of students who hadn't been selected for their school team. They formed a new team, hired one of their parents as chairman, beat the team they'd been deemed not good enough for and, as they say, the rest his history.

A little copy and paste from their Wikipedia page on Youth Setup really breaks down what my plans here will be:

Quote

Gençlerbirliği have always been one of the teams in Turkey most notable for their talented young footballers that they procure through scouting both in Turkey and throughout Europe and Africa. For example, Geremi was scouted and raised by the club, transferred to Real Madrid and later Chelsea. Another of Gençlerbirliği's young stars Isaac Promise received the 2005–06 Super League Individual Youth player of the Year award.

Gençlerbirliği's state-of-the-art youth academy is located in Beştepe, Ankara with 50 acres (200,000 m2) of training facilities (Beştepe İlhan Cavcav Tesisleri).

Gençlerbirliği had been run by İlhan Cavcav from 1978 until his death in 2017. With Cavcav's help, Gençlerbirliği have become one of the more stable clubs in Turkey. This has been achieved mainly through the departure of the most talented players every season to the other clubs in Turkey. Departing players are usually replaced with much cheaper imports from Turkey, Europe or Africa.

Given the position we are in - one win from twelve and rock bottom of the league - I don't expect us to go up this year. But, if we can build on the above philosophies over the course of this year (scouting Africa may be an issue though), and look to challenge for the playoffs next year, I think I'll have done a really good job here. Gencler are a team where I can see myself spending three or four years at, solidifying, building and, hopefully leading them to the top flight before maybe then taking the plunge at a bigger side or even moving to Italy or Greece at this point.

---

In terms of the squad I have inherited, I must say that I am excited. There is some huge underperformance here as, on paper, there are many player significantly better than I have managed before. It'll be all about ensuring that we are all pulling in the right direction as well as giving chances to the large number of youngsters on our books. I must also add that - when looking through the squad (n.b. I've used NewGan to get their faces even though the majority of them aren't newgens, so apologies if there is a player you may know who doesn't have the correct face) - there is something really aesthetically pleasing about the red text on black background, which reminds me very much of AC Milan. Those times are a long way away in my managerial career though...

 

Straight off the bat, Ubeyd looks a stronger and more reliable keeper than Zulfuk Ozir did at Menemenspor - with his ability to hold shots being stronger than before. He's clearly not performing well and his passing leaves a lot to be desired but I do like the size of his frame plus his Decisions and Positioning. He's the first of many players I will highlight in this who came through the youth academy. Atalay is a little more raw but hopefully his services will not be called upon in the near future.

        

Not quite the quality I'd have been hoping for here - however, every single player is better than ones who I have managed before. Let by Mert and Metehan, we have a strong centre back pairing even if they are a little weaker on the ball than I'd like. I will, probably, experiment with them as Ball Playing Defenders as their current pass completion is above 70% and they're progressing the ball a decent number of times per game, too. We're strong at full back with, probably Alberk Koc and Oguz Ceylan being the two first choice players but, interestingly (from my tactical style at Menemenspor), I also have two particularly attacking full backs in Yucel and Muhammet - who could fit a similar role on the right flank to what I've used before. Academy lad Mehmet Dereli is far too small to be a centre back but is just another one of the promising youngsters who'll get minutes - even if I'm not quite sure how I want to mould him.

       

This is where I'm most excited! In Gokhan and Serkan, we have two really strong pivots - who can play as 6's and possibly 8's too, should I have the ability to change the style. Belyaev looks more like a 10 and could fill a variety of attacking positions but the real interest comes from the three young lads, Cem, Dunyacan and Enescan. Cem is good enough for first team football, in my eyes: a two footed attacking mid who can make things happen. Dunyacan is my least favourite of the three but I see his roles, combined with traits, First Touch and Teamwork, leading to him possibly being utilised as some kind of False 9 or False 10. I normally hate really one footed players but Enescan has something that I just really like and I will look to utilise the one-footedness, asking him to use the outside of his right foot, given that strong Technique. I see him as a bit of a classic 10 but also someone who is good in the final third - so, to mitigate the weaknesses in terms of size, I think a player coming in off the left flank could be the place for him. I'm going to use the TRQ(a) schedule for him with a bit of focus on both his speed and agility but he'll get plenty of minutes going forward, I feel.

      

I can see Kemal leading the line here with Ilker cutting in from the left hand side, although I would prefer a more creative player out wide, hence the interest in Enescan Ozu. There is some good depth here and I will look to develop the overall physicality of Omercan Tekin and give him enough minutes in order to make him actually want to extend his deal. A two footed forward with, for his age, quite strong mental attributes, interests me somewhat - however, he'll never be able to play in poor weather conditions as he may actually blow away!

---

I have three games this month: Manisa - A (6th), Eyupsor - H (7th) and Somaspor - A (4th), which is hardly ideal. However, I'll get my teeth into the day-to-day management as the days tick by but, just by looking at the players to screenshot them and post about has given me a good idea of who I've got to work with and what I can hopefully get from them!

It was a really big gamble but one that I think has paid off in the end!

[Matt_1979]

Exciting times. 

Sounds harsh but I’d love to see you struggle for a while at a club and have to battle to turn it around. 

[_Ben_]

45 minutes ago, Matt_1979 said:

Sounds harsh but I’d love to see you struggle for a while at a club and have to battle to turn it around. 

I know exactly what you mean! I had expected a tough time at this level with Menemenspor but, first month aside, had found it pretty straightforward to find and counter opponent threats. Add that with the additional mentality boosts I can give by praise and it does become a little easier than I expected. I don't think the developers need to change a lot but it is (and always has been) quite apparent that the AI is always hampered by things that a human manager is not. 

We've got two thirds of the season left to turn this around and I feel like, given the squad we have - it'll be relatively straight forward, which isn't always the most realistic outcome. However, I said this when I took over at Sochi last year and that is still, to date, the only sacking I've ever had on FM!

[Matt_1979]

Oh yes! Forgot about the Sochi sacking. 

[Shrewnaldo]

I have no idea how you manage to play so quickly and provide such detailed updates. Great stuff.

Have to say that I was very surprised that you resigned from Mememenememenemeispor but has clearly turned out to be a smart move. I think I'm right in saying that there aren't many, or any?, big clubs in Ankara - bit off for a capital city I guess. Definite scope to become a regionally dominant club in a populous area - which can only help your drive for youth recruitment.

[danielgear]

Glad to see the move pay off. Good luck at the new club. Big upgrade in terms on size it seems

[_Ben_]

4 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

I have no idea how you manage to play so quickly and provide such detailed updates. Great stuff.

I must say that I am putting far too many hours into FM at the moment. I actually do need to do real life things!

4 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

Have to say that I was very surprised that you resigned from Mememenememenemeispor but has clearly turned out to be a smart move. I think I'm right in saying that there aren't many, or any?, big clubs in Ankara - bit off for a capital city I guess. Definite scope to become a regionally dominant club in a populous area - which can only help your drive for youth recruitment.

4 hours ago, danielgear said:

Glad to see the move pay off. Good luck at the new club. Big upgrade in terms on size it seems

It was a big risk, yes! I felt as if I'd soon reach the limit for how far Menemenspor could go and the move to allow me a higher ceiling was necessary. I enjoyed my time there without ever really scratching the surface beyond picking a team each week and I feel that, in the past (as this is only like my third even journeyman), I've been really safe with my movements and choices. Here, I want to take a risk and get really stuck in.

In terms of clubs in Ankara, there is Anakaragucu, who play in the top tier (and share a stadium) as well as four teams at the level below us: Ankara Keciorengucu, Ankara D.S, Ankaraspor and Etimesgut Belediyespor. That, though, is nothing compared to the eleven Istanbul teams that occupy the top two tiers.

[GIMN]

Phew!  Glad that worked out.

When you took over at Menemenspor they were hideously underperforming their xG in both phases - is it the similar with Gençlerbirliği, and hopefully you'll just need to organise them into a system that will make the most of their ability?  Or is this a bigger rebuild project, with the team being filled with capable individuals that just don't seem to be able to play well together?

[_Ben_]

35 minutes ago, GIMN said:

When you took over at Menemenspor they were hideously underperforming their xG in both phases - is it the similar with Gençlerbirliği, and hopefully you'll just need to organise them into a system that will make the most of their ability?  Or is this a bigger rebuild project, with the team being filled with capable individuals that just don't seem to be able to play well together?

This is a rebuild job! But that's ok because I want to settle now and maybe not make the rapid progress that I did last time out. It certainly feels more realistic to be stuck in this league for a while than be already in the top flight of Turkey after three seasons or so, completely missing out the lower Italian and Greek element to this save.

[_Ben_]

November 2023

The first three games culminate a nice evening of FM-playtime for me, although I do really need to switch my focus to actual things happening in my life, rather than FM! It's been really nice to actually take the reigns at a club that has players who are worth trying to spend time on. I've set out individual training and written some notes as ideas for quite a few of these youngsters and I am really excited about the intake in March or April time. On the pitch, we've picked up four points this month, against teams in and around the playoff spots, which is great. Most of my worries, right now, are tactical, but soon I know that I'll have to think about recruitment and, at minimum, planning further ahead than the next game.

---

Manisa 2-1 Genclerbirligi

Gencler's new era starts with a pretty vanilla formation, suited, hopefully, to their players. I've opted for a 4-2-3-1 that plays as a 2-4-1-3 shape in transition, with narrow forwards and the width coming from the full backs - hoping that this can ease my issues with numbers in the box. I've used a double pivot of two 6's again but, with a Positive mentality, they'll hopefully be able to join in a bit more in the counter. I see it as quite a risky shape but will hopefully build on what I've learnt at Menemenspor. The team largely picked itself, with those who trained well - Oguz, Cem and Yusuf, in particular along with the likes of Mert and Metehan, reunited as centre backs. The obvious issue with this shape, just two days into my reign, is the lack of team cohesion and general understanding of the tactic. I knew that we would possibly be a bit shakier than usual but we have to develop!

Our opener was a nicely worked move from a throw in - which is pleasing as I will always look for marginal gains from set plays. Whilst I do want to get away from a reliance, and underperformance, on headed goals from crosses, I am quite pleased with the numbers in the box and the nice movement that allowed Ilker space to win the ball and direct it goalward. I have no complaints about their equaliser - a shot with an xG of just 0.05 that goes in off the underside of the bar, beating a 6'4" keeper who has, in my eyes, positioned himself well and done everything right. Our xG rose considerably but, with a missed penalty, we had nothing to show for it. I slowed down the pace to maintain player fitness (the screenshot of the line up was forgotten and was actually taken post-game, so notice the fitness levels) but I need to be tactically more astute as the last ten minutes were saw Manisa pose their biggest threat and, eventually, net the winner with a close-range header. As always, I'll be trying to decide whether I feel that this is an individual error, a lack of team cohesiveness and positioning or just an unlucky break. My initial impression is that the gap between our midfield and defence was probably too big, allowing an easy, late run into the box from Adem Buyuk who netted. Even though the shot had just a 10% chance of going in, I think we probably should have done better to make it harder for him to win it.

Never the less, I go onto the next game knowing that, overall, we have played pretty well here. I think that the overall intensity, below, is probably a factor, despite actually being quite low. The two big periods of pressure for us came at the ends of each half. Combine that with a less-than-favourable half-time teamtalk, which did little to motivate them, and there is pretty much the recipe for the bad periods. I've taken the step to remove any knowledge (by just not using the panel at this stage) of opposition body language in-game, so that I can focus my attentions on defeating them tactically by analysing poor performance, rather than just going all-out when I see they are annoyed at their manager's feedback. I feel that it's both a realistic step and also a learning curve for me: I'm getting better at playing a way and exploiting a tactical opening but not so confident at beating a certain player on a team.

Here, with us languishing at the bottom of the league seems like a perfect place to try it!

---

Genclerbirligi 0-0 Eyupspor

A tale of three shapes and not a lot more!

I think that I'm just a little lost in terms of replicating the style of play that I really want. First and foremost, I want to be defensively sound - and keeping a clean sheet in this tie has achieved that. However, I often look at our build up, and, more importantly, look at how other's perceive our build up and worry that we're just long ball merchants. The whole concept of counter-attacking is not that and some extra reading really drilled that home. This was from one particular article:

"The idea of counter attack is to have a sudden quick attack before the opposition is even ready to defend after regaining possession. In most of the cases, teams with the tactic of counter attack doesn’t score and possess a lot, but with the toughness of defence, the team can still successfully win the game. Midfielders and defenders must keep the line straight, make gaps as narrow as possible and not allow opposition’s forwards to find any empty spaces inside the box."

The 4-2-3-1 that I play looks to create fluidity between the offensive four and, as expected, that comes at the expense of the defensive structure and creates some huge gaps in our defensive play. It also often leaves four players up field meaning the only way for us to effectively transition is that long ball up to them. It's little wonder that I spent hours tearing my hair out with my Menemenspor side, watching them give possession away literally every time they had the ball. So, I tried to change it. Faced with their narrow shape, I wanted to keep them pushed down the flanks and, where possible, want shapes that mean our core values (Run at Defence, Higher Tempo, Counter, Regroup, Low Block, High DL) can be maintained. We started with the 4-2-3-1 shape, as you can see on the average positions for the first half. A change up to a 4-3-3 shape, utilising more defensive full backs didn't really do much for me either, with the most likely to do anything being a 4-4-1-1 shape I trialled at the end of the game. However, I'm a sucker for a player in the DM role as I know just how dangerous players who play in between the lines can be, so, I really want to have somewhere there going forward - plus, we've got a ton of them.

The game itself was dour. We got the clean sheet we needed but didn't really create a lot, probably because I spent the majority of the time looking at our positional play and making tweaks to it, further decreasing the tactical familiarity that I pointed out above. It's the first point of my tenure and, despite us playing in a stadium far greater than our means (just 2,077 fans attended the 22,000 seater stadium coloured in the blue and yellow of our city rivals, and ground owners, Ankaragucu), I've got my first points in the capital city.

---

Genclerbirligi 2-0 Somaspor

Another game, another shape discussion in my head.

This time, I started with a 4-1-4-1, both because we were away from home at high flying (but promoted last year like Menemenspor) Somaspor and also due to the good form of their two midfield players - Cuma and Mucahit, with four G/A this season each. In build up, it gives us a nice 2-3-4-1 shape but also seems to make us a bit more 'counter-attack proof' as we regroup quickly. The obvious disadvantage of this shape is how lonely the striker appears to be but I will work on ways to get him involved, after recording just twenty-three touches, one being in the penalty area.

We took the lead thanks to Metehan Mert, who scored from a powerful header. I was immediately having a deja-vu moment as Somaspor scored, directly from kick off, however it was - correctly - adjudged offside. The game was nervy but we had a little more of the ball and controlled the game a lot better than we have done before. The heat map suggests, rightly, that most of our play was in the central areas, not being able to really penetrate their defence, which is something I know that this shape does maybe lack. It was, however, a testament to the offensive nature of the central players when Serkan's strike sealed the win as he broke through the middle. 

Three points and a good performance is a really good way to end the month. I know we'll face tough tests and I predict that it'll take us longer to find our groove that it did for me last time out - but that is part of the fun here. The table, below, doesn't make for good reading but we are off the bottom and have only lost once in the last five league games, meaning we're in better form than Giresunspor and Menemenspor, above us, although they have games in hand.

 

[Shrewnaldo]

1 hour ago, _Ben_ said:

It's little wonder that I spent hours tearing my hair out with my Menemenspor side, watching them give possession away literally every time they had the ball.

 

Seems like there's quite a few parallels between our games. I had this issue with my early attempts to play a direct counter-attacking game. Playing a target forward, I thought we'd play up to the strong striker who would look to hold it up and bring others into play. Instead, the ball is inevitably floated up so that he has an aerial challenge with a defender and, even if he wins it, he has to try and head it to a team-mate. There's no hint of taking the ball in, holding off a defender and keeping the ball for 2-3 seconds whilst others come into the game. Very frustrating.

With the 4-2-3-1 and using two DMs on support - I've found that they get too aggressive when you have established possession and I would literally watch both push up as the opposition was breaking out with the ball. It's really frustrating that there doesn't seem to be any intelligence in the player, or ability to instruct the team, for a midfield pairing to play as a pair - noting that if one goes, then the other doesn't; but it isn't always the same one which goes. That just doesn't seem possible in FM either.

Sorry, not meaning to derail your thread with whinges about the game. Are you settling back into the 4-1-4-1 going forward?

[_Ben_]

7 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

Seems like there's quite a few parallels between our games. I had this issue with my early attempts to play a direct counter-attacking game. Playing a target forward, I thought we'd play up to the strong striker who would look to hold it up and bring others into play. Instead, the ball is inevitably floated up so that he has an aerial challenge with a defender and, even if he wins it, he has to try and head it to a team-mate. There's no hint of taking the ball in, holding off a defender and keeping the ball for 2-3 seconds whilst others come into the game. Very frustrating.

With the 4-2-3-1 and using two DMs on support - I've found that they get too aggressive when you have established possession and I would literally watch both push up as the opposition was breaking out with the ball. It's really frustrating that there doesn't seem to be any intelligence in the player, or ability to instruct the team, for a midfield pairing to play as a pair - noting that if one goes, then the other doesn't; but it isn't always the same one which goes. That just doesn't seem possible in FM either.

Sorry, not meaning to derail your thread with whinges about the game. Are you settling back into the 4-1-4-1 going forward?

The long floated ball has been the bane of my life in this edition! I want us to play quickly, and directly, through the lines rather than a long hoof to a small forward, who, in my case, isn't even a target forward! I completely agree with your analysis of the 4-2-3-1 but I'm not sure I'm settled on the 4-1-4-1, either! We have three young AMCs at the club and that shape really doesn't make it easy, unless I convert them elsewhere and early indications is that the forward is just going to get lost - given the level of footballing ability we have. 

That being said, I don't like the 4-4-1-1 either as it leaves me vulnerable in front of the defence as I like to use my full backs to start transitions, usually from inverted positions.

I think my biggest challenge here will be finding a setup that I like and one that works for who I have at the club.

[Shrewnaldo]

With the 4-4-1-1, my experience of flat 4s in defence and midfield is that the 2 MCs will inevitably drop and compress the space in front of the defence - unless you've got some other instructions which supercede that. So they end up protecting "zone 14" pretty well, albeit subject to their wandering tendencies during transition from attack to defence. Have you been finding something different this year?

I wonder if a 4-2-3-1 with 3 narrow AMCs would counteract the DMs / MCs propensity for pushing up, as the game sees that the area is already occupied by attacking players? The usual problem with 3AMCs is how to get the wide ones to defend the flanks, but this was actually quite a pleasing change when I tried two AMCs behind a 9 in a 3-4-3(ish) - they really did drop in wide and deep when defending. It was actually a little frustrating in the other direction when I wanted to keep them high in support of the 9 but it proved impossible to do so.

[_Ben_]

December 2023

It's been a hell of a week and I've finally been brought back down to earth after so much beta playtime. However, December is now done and my skin is nearing completion so I'll be fully focused on playing the game rather than tearing it apart and rebuilding it. It's been a tough December and my job is actually a little under threat but we face Tuzlaspor (19th), Giresunspor (16th) and Menemenspor (15th) in January in literally a month that will make or break my job!

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Genclerbirligi 1-1 Adanaspor

We conceded pretty early on as we allowed them to create pocket of space and finish well but, in a positive manner, we responded well and hit them several times on the counter attack, scoring from one. The best thing, for me, about the goal is that a little bit of ingenuity (whether intended or not or even just a graphical thing) was the goal kick. The keeper is set up to go to the right and so is their defence, but his ball out wide left, into space, allows us to progress quickly, get the ball into the box and score. I can't complain against a strong team and one point is more than none!

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Caykur Rizespor 1-1 Genclerbirligi

A really tough one to take as they score with literally the last kick.

I'm growing to like our compact defensive shape but it was a lovely Mez(a) - W(s) overload that allowed us to get in and Kemal finished nicely. In the dying seconds, we were countered and Caykur rescued a point in a game that we were more than good enough to win. However, I like that I can point out where I've fallen short and act upon it - which, to me, feels like a win in terms of my understanding of the match engine. At the turnover in possession, the IWB(s) are playing too high and too narrow for this time in the game with this situation. I'd forgotten to ask them to play as more traditional, defensive, full backs for the last five. Hopefully, a mistake we never repeat!

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Pendikspor 1-3 Genclerbirligi

I kind of feel like this has been coming! Bottom of the league, away at the second placed team but a big win.

We took the lead from a nice switch of play, aided by an overload, that was fed into the box and finished by Kemal, who has struck some form. We were then pegged back by my old favourite, the third man run, in a lovely move. It's something I made a lot of at Groningen last year but also knew that, with two attacking centre mids, it was something that would happen to us occasionally to. It's risk and reward and Pendikspor did it really well this time. They didn't do quite so well though soon after as they gifted us a third before a lovely low cross was turned into the net.

Still not quite where I want to be in most phases but it's coming!

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As I said - January will make or break my tenure. A couple of wins and we'll be mid table and able to build on for the future. I am pretty shocked to see Elhadj Bah, the man I brought to Menenemspor, leading the scoring charts this season in a struggling side.

 

[Shrewnaldo]

53 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

At the turnover in possession, the IWB(s) are playing too high and too narrow for this time in the game with this situation. I'd forgotten to ask them to play as more traditional, defensive, full backs for the last five. Hopefully, a mistake we never repeat!

 

Interesting positioning there. I'm assuming the player sitting just in front of them is a DM? Or is that an MC with a defend duty? Appreciate that the game is trying to incorporate positioning mistakes but surprised that they are sitting so narrow here if the third player is indeed a DM that hasn't really stepped up into midfield.

[Sonic Youth]

I’ve got my fingers crossed for January 

[danielgear]

On 07/11/2022 at 06:43, _Ben_ said:

We have three young AMCs at the club

On FM23, if you play with a DM this pushes MC’s more forward than FM22 so they will play as AM’s. If you get the roles right those 3 can effectively play as AMs. 
Therefore you can keep the 4141

[Shrewnaldo]

2 hours ago, danielgear said:

On FM23, if you play with a DM this pushes MC’s more forward than FM22 so they will play as AM’s. If you get the roles right those 3 can effectively play as AMs. 
Therefore you can keep the 4141

How much have you actually been seeing a change in 23? Heard this a few times but, using a mezz(S) and CM(A) in front of a regista, I can't say that I've noticed much, if any, difference from 22. So far, it's only been in the other direction, with the regista staying a bit deeper - although I think that might be down to player traits 

[danielgear]

38 minutes ago, Shrewnaldo said:

How much have you actually been seeing a change in 23? Heard this a few times but, using a mezz(S) and CM(A) in front of a regista, I can't say that I've noticed much, if any, difference from 22. So far, it's only been in the other direction, with the regista staying a bit deeper - although I think that might be down to player traits 

Obviously other things come into play like TIs etc but when it was mentioned I did a test on beta and same tactic on FM22 and ran it for 5 games on both and noticed a difference but I wouldn’t say it’s massively different. A matter of 5 yards further up the pitch.

what I’ve noticed if the DM is on support duty they will push up further than if they’re on defend duty. I ran it was a AP-S and CM-A Infront of a DM-D and it wasn’t noticeable enough at first until I went back to compare on FM22 

[Shrewnaldo]

30 minutes ago, danielgear said:

Obviously other things come into play like TIs etc but when it was mentioned I did a test on beta and same tactic on FM22 and ran it for 5 games on both and noticed a difference but I wouldn’t say it’s massively different. A matter of 5 yards further up the pitch.

what I’ve noticed if the DM is on support duty they will push up further than if they’re on defend duty. I ran it was a AP-S and CM-A Infront of a DM-D and it wasn’t noticeable enough at first until I went back to compare on FM22 

Yeah I wondered if using a regista, on support obvs, would counteract that new positioning - not sure if the game looks at the roles, the actual on-field positioning or a combination of the two. I would hope it's not just the role selection.

What you're saying is counterintuitive to me - I'd have thought the MCs would have less license to get forward if the DM was also pushing on. I'd have liked some thought about cover, rather than just an endless concertina of everyone getting pushed further forward... Going to replay some old matches, see if I'm just missing something