decapitated Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63671614 Quote UK Pride organisations have called on bars and venues to not screen World Cup matches in a boycott of the tournament. Host Qatar has been criticised for its stance on same-sex relationships, among other human rights concerns. A Qatar World Cup ambassador was recently criticised after saying homosexuality was "damage in the mind". A report by Human Rights Watch said members of the country's LGBTQ+ community were detained and physically abused by security services. Manchester Pride said a boycott would send a message to Fifa that "the lives of marginalised people are paramount". "By choosing to host the World Cup in Qatar, Fifa has demonstrated a complete lack of consideration for LGBTQ+ people," said the organisation, in unity with Pride In London, Brighton Pride and Birmingham Pride. "The message Fifa is sending to the world appears to be that they don't think LGBTQ+ people are, or should be, involved in sport - whether that's as an athlete or a fan. Furthermore, it seems that they don't think protecting LGBTQ+ people is something they need to be involved with. "Even once these issues were brought to light, Fifa has disregarded queer peoples' needs or didn't deem them important, and proceeded with Qatar as the host nation. "As such a huge organisation with massive power and influence, Fifa is in an incredible position to progress LGBTQ+ rights in football and sport, but have completely disregarded LGBTQ+ people - presumably in favour of profits." Qatar's World Cup organisers say that "everyone is welcome" to visit the country to watch the football, and that no-one will be discriminated against. Peaceful protests have been planned by some players, while England's Harry Kane and eight other captains of European teams will be wearing 'One Love' armbands to promote diversity and inclusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahzun_Savas Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 I don't think Qatar is going to care one little bit if such a boycott went ahead, which it definitely will not, and nothing is going to change. Qatar have already had their win, they will just continue to persecute LGBTQ+ people and other human rights abuses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltablue Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 This is consistent from what I have seen from a few people I follow (mainly drag queens) urging a boycott on those grounds, and I am obviously inclined to support that at least in terms of making a final and definite decision not to tune in myself. It will probably me much more fun to follow it on here anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulHartman71 Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 Ultimately Qatar and FIFA couldn’t care less if bars and pubs don’t show the World Cup here. Think it’s pretty unfair to try and pressure pubs and bars to take a protest on this when pubs and bars have never had it so bad financially and getting people in for World Cup games will be a big financial earner for a lot of them. If they don’t show it their punters will just go to a nearby pub, bar or head to a casino to watch instead. If every pub and bar in a town don’t show it then ironically this would actually boost the TV ratings as more people would watch it at home instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HopOnBaby Posted November 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 18, 2022 Tbf, I think there isn't a bigger FU to Qatar than drinking alcohol in a gay bar while watching their World Cup. 18 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 44 minutes ago, HopOnBaby said: Tbf, I think there isn't a bigger FU to Qatar than drinking alcohol in a gay bar while watching their World Cup. Exactly. Deck out all gay bars with Pride flags mixed with Qatar flags and have yourselves a party. Make sure you get plenty of pics of the flags side by side too to post online. Couple of men going at it underneath them… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Barry Cartman Posted November 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 18, 2022 Its a very unfair request really, businesses are struggling to stay open as it is, and need whatever extra income they can get from such events as the World Cup. I'm sure communities would rather their favourite bars stay open during the coming months whilst bills are sky rocketing 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 I don't really see what any kind of "I'm not watching" boycott really achieves, other than to let people compete for just how much they're totally not going to watch. At this stage, the people who shouldn't have made the decisions that were made have already pocketed their money and left. Viewing figures going down (and that's if they even do go down by some noticeable amount) probably doesn't hurt anyone that actually makes a difference. If sponsors were going to rise up and take notice and put some real pressure on, they would have done so by now, not just days before the tournament. And to pile that on to hospitality venues that are talking about shutting in the New Year because of the struggle is pretty unfair. Showing the World Cup doesn't make them all bigoted homophobes. It doesn't make them a supporter of the Qatari regime. It doesn't mean that, just by showing it, everyone's going to suddenly forget what has gone before. It just means they're denying themselves money that other establishments will happily take instead. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oche balboa Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 5 hours ago, decapitated said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63671614 Good luck with that. Pubs are struggling at the moment this is a potential money spinner for them and they need it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Barry Cartman said: Its a very unfair request really, businesses are struggling to stay open as it is, and need whatever extra income they can get from such events as the World Cup. I'm sure communities would rather their favourite bars stay open during the coming months whilst bills are sky rocketing Yeah this is my feeling. Like, if you buy the World Cup edition of World Soccer, I feel like you're supporting the magazine and helping it keep going rather than supporting Qatar. Edited November 18, 2022 by Coulthard's Jaw 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReSpawn Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 I'm part of the community and want to join the boycott, but I have been waiting 4 years for this.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 2 hours ago, forameuss said: I don't really see what any kind of "I'm not watching" boycott really achieves, other than to let people compete for just how much they're totally not going to watch. At this stage, the people who shouldn't have made the decisions that were made have already pocketed their money and left. Viewing figures going down (and that's if they even do go down by some noticeable amount) probably doesn't hurt anyone that actually makes a difference. If sponsors were going to rise up and take notice and put some real pressure on, they would have done so by now, not just days before the tournament. And to pile that on to hospitality venues that are talking about shutting in the New Year because of the struggle is pretty unfair. Showing the World Cup doesn't make them all bigoted homophobes. It doesn't make them a supporter of the Qatari regime. It doesn't mean that, just by showing it, everyone's going to suddenly forget what has gone before. It just means they're denying themselves money that other establishments will happily take instead. It's less about this one and more about putting pressure on future ones. if advertisers see viewing figures drop they might think twice about the amount of money they'll bid for sponsorships if FIFA decide that some other country run by an awful, repressive, regime, is a good place to host a world cup Agree Qatar isn't that affected by non watchers, but they are affected by people talking about why they are not watching. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Rafalution said: It's less about this one and more about putting pressure on future ones. if advertisers see viewing figures drop they might think twice about the amount of money they'll bid for sponsorships if FIFA decide that some other country run by an awful, repressive, regime, is a good place to host a world cup Call me cynical, but I fear the thing FIFA will be saying is "wish we'd air conditioned the entire country in July". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 It would be nice, but it would also be financially idiotic in current times. Plus it won't affect Qatar one bit will it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggins Top Boys Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 Would love to be in the room when Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani finds out The Vauxhall Tavern won't be showing Switzerland vs Cameroon. oh boy the look on his face! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopOnBaby Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 I've managed to rationalise it in my head recently that when the games are happening, that's it - it's just the football: it's the World Cup, ffs - enjoy it (until we lose on penalties). Plus, with so much build-up having focused on other elements, it kinda feels like going into a movie without seeing trailers - you're much less prepped than you might have been otherwise. That's pretty exciting, I think. Then, between the games, it's fine to go back to dread, disbelief and disgust about everything else that's happening off the pitch. That's not going away, but you need to allow yourself an oasis of enjoyment amongst all the **** that's going on at home, in Qatar and pretty much everywhere else rn. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 On 18/11/2022 at 10:21, forameuss said: I don't really see what any kind of "I'm not watching" boycott really achieves, other than to let people compete for just how much they're totally not going to watch. At this stage, the people who shouldn't have made the decisions that were made have already pocketed their money and left. Viewing figures going down (and that's if they even do go down by some noticeable amount) probably doesn't hurt anyone that actually makes a difference. If sponsors were going to rise up and take notice and put some real pressure on, they would have done so by now, not just days before the tournament. And to pile that on to hospitality venues that are talking about shutting in the New Year because of the struggle is pretty unfair. Showing the World Cup doesn't make them all bigoted homophobes. It doesn't make them a supporter of the Qatari regime. It doesn't mean that, just by showing it, everyone's going to suddenly forget what has gone before. It just means they're denying themselves money that other establishments will happily take instead. yeah, this If you want activism, go target the companies that paid good money to FIFA and the Qatari regime to associate themselves with it, not some bar in Britain that's simply showing what punters want Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopOnBaby Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 On 18/11/2022 at 09:21, HopOnBaby said: Tbf, I think there isn't a bigger FU to Qatar than drinking alcohol in a gay bar while watching their World Cup. Sadly, my team's sponsor (a gay bar in Clapham) has had to bow to pressure put on their brewery and now won't show games Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, HopOnBaby said: Sadly, my team's sponsor (a gay bar in Clapham) has had to bow to pressure put on their brewery and now won't show games A brewery putting pressure on a bar not to show World Cup games must be a first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopOnBaby Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 The brewery owns a number of LGBT+ venues, so they must have been concerned about wider implications with their clientele if they had it on in our bar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 Because nothing says "we really care about this cause" more than fear of backlash. Is bullying an establishment into making a decision really a win? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 1 hour ago, HopOnBaby said: The brewery owns a number of LGBT+ venues, so they must have been concerned about wider implications with their clientele if they had it on in our bar. Is the LGBT community majorly against any involvement in the tournament or is it split like the general population is? I just don't see who they're helping with decisions like this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggins Top Boys Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 Two Brewers are showing it so they could get a bit of a numbers boost (unless that's the pub that's changed its mind) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltablue Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Weezer said: Is the LGBT community majorly against any involvement in the tournament or is it split like the general population is? I just don't see who they're helping with decisions like this. I know a few people who have come out firmly against it, so I'd say there is at least more opposition than among the public in general. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomyorkessoul Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 (edited) On 18/11/2022 at 04:07, Weezer said: Exactly. Deck out all gay bars with Pride flags mixed with Qatar flags and have yourselves a party. Make sure you get plenty of pics of the flags side by side too to post online. Couple of men going at it underneath them… I work at the premiere LGBTQ+ night club in Austin. I'm going to try to make this happen. I'll try to talk to some of the Austin FC season ticket holders I know from there as well. Edited November 19, 2022 by thomyorkessoul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltablue Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 There have been some legitimate questions asked in this and other threads about the effect of such a boycott, whether by individuals or organisations, so I would just like to explain my own reasoning on the basis that this is an entirely personal decision and is not one I would put pressure on others to follow. It's not just about this or even any other human rights issue. Even putting those aside, my view is there's just something about this World Cup hosting choice and process that outstrips any other, even Russia and the similar criticisms made about that country getting the World Cup. My opinion is that it really does feel like new and uncharted depths have been plunged, even by FIFA'a standards. I know that even if enough people switch off to make a noticable difference in viewing figures it won't make any impact on anyone or anything that matters. For me it's a matter of conscience. I would feel like if I watched as normal, I would be implicitly tolerating all of these issues (whether it's human rights, the corrupt nature of the process or anything else) and deciding that wanting to watch football is more important than those things. Perhaps it's easier for me both because I am much less engaged with football (usually only watching international tournaments) and because of how much more I can relate to those expressing their opposition and their reasons, which makes it hard to knowingly go against their wishes. That being said, I do like the suggestions and reasoning given by some in this thread about why watching in a gay bar or similar actions can still be considered a middle finger to Qatar and it's policies, so go for it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopOnBaby Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 12 hours ago, Wiggins Top Boys said: Two Brewers are showing it so they could get a bit of a numbers boost (unless that's the pub that's changed its mind) That's them I don't know what pressure has been put on the brewery, but I don't want to criticise it, as people having these feelings is totally valid, it's just a shame that it's not compatible with the plans of our minority within the minority. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomyorkessoul Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Having thought about it a bit more, I may not go quite that far. Having the Qatar flag alone could be viewed as unnecessarily inflammatory, and the last thing I want to do is put the club/patrons in danger. We might just get a bunch of mini flags for all the nations and have them bordering the giant Pride flag we have in the entrance. I'll have a chance to talk to my manager about it tomorrow though. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry crowne Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Isn't it British policy nowadays to lambast the old policy, which was apparently to go into other countries and tell them what's what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 52 minutes ago, thomyorkessoul said: Having thought about it a bit more, I may not go quite that far. Having the Qatar flag alone could be viewed as unnecessarily inflammatory, and the last thing I want to do is put the club/patrons in danger. We might just get a bunch of mini flags for all the nations and have them bordering the giant Pride flag we have in the entrance. I'll have a chance to talk to my manager about it tomorrow though. Just make sure the Qatar flag is next to the Pride flag, coincidence and all that... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 59 minutes ago, larry crowne said: Isn't it British policy nowadays to lambast the old policy, which was apparently to go into other countries and tell them what's what? So you're saying we should accept their attitude towards LGBTQI+ people? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted November 20, 2022 Administrators Share Posted November 20, 2022 2 hours ago, deltablue said: That being said, I do like the suggestions and reasoning given by some in this thread about why watching in a gay bar or similar actions can still be considered a middle finger to Qatar and it's policies, so go for it Thinking of protest, I'm reminded of the South Park episode where all the men start having sex with each other as a form of protest. Though in seriousness, I'm not sure what the best way to challenge Qatar and its policies are or if a boycott would be the best way. I get the sense that some way or another, they would be benefitting from other things without me/people realising it, given how pervasive their sportswashing etc projects are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Reminder also that transgender escorts and prostitutes are quite popular in the Middle East, so unsurprisingly behind closed doors they're not that disgusted by LGBTQ practices..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopOnBaby Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 2 hours ago, thomyorkessoul said: Having thought about it a bit more, I may not go quite that far. Having the Qatar flag alone could be viewed as unnecessarily inflammatory, and the last thing I want to do is put the club/patrons in danger. We might just get a bunch of mini flags for all the nations and have them bordering the giant Pride flag we have in the entrance. I'll have a chance to talk to my manager about it tomorrow though. Proud Maroons have some ideas that may be worth following. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry crowne Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 2 hours ago, Confused Clarity said: So you're saying we should accept their attitude towards LGBTQI+ people? Yes, of course. It's their country and their religion forbids homosexuality. What else is there to do? It's against the law to have children out of wedlock in Qatar. They also have stricter abortion laws than we have here. Should something be done about that as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Yes we should be doing something about that too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
git2thachoppa Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 (edited) *Secretary (obviously male) bursts into Qatar FA HQ* Secretary: "Sir, something terrible has happened. A pub in Burnley is not screening our match. It's feared dozens, possibly hundreds may follow." Big Boss Guy: "My Allah... how will I feed my children? The World Cup is cancelled. I have to sell my houses. It's over for all of us." *Secretary jumps out of window to death* *One Day Later* News reporter: "And thanks to the actions of UK pubs everywhere not showing football, Islamic law has been repealed in Qatar and discrimination has ended. We now go live to the FIFA press conference, where it has been revealed a new law has been passed by unanimous decision for Infantino to be mandated unopposed for 100 more years in celebration of this landmark moment for humanity." Edited November 20, 2022 by git2thachoppa 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltablue Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 1 hour ago, larry crowne said: Yes, of course. It's their country and their religion forbids homosexuality. What else is there to do? How about actually stand up for human rights, which should never be considered a matter of opinion. You really don't want to be dismissing the importance of LGBTQIA+ rights with me of all people. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 1 hour ago, larry crowne said: Yes, of course. It's their country and their religion forbids homosexuality. What else is there to do? It's against the law to have children out of wedlock in Qatar. They also have stricter abortion laws than we have here. Should something be done about that as well? 27 minutes ago, Confused Clarity said: Yes we should be doing something about that too. I'm going to go a stage further on this. I would stand by my comments on Children out of wedlock & on abortions - but those are choices people make in their lives. It's not something I believe should be judged or criminalised, but they are still choices. Being LGBTQI+ is not a life choice, it is at the core of an individual's very being. People cannot make a choice on if they're LGBTQI+, they simply are. That is not something that should ever be criminalised and it's morally and ethically abhorrent that anywhere should ever or has ever done so. Why do you think that it is reasonable for them to criminalise being LGBTQI+? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Deleted a couple of posts, we're absolutely not going down that route Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Moores Mum Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Holy ****, you're actually going with the comparisons to paedophilia, rape and murder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, ginnybob said: Holy ****, you're actually going with the comparisons to paedophilia, rape and murder. It tends to be the way that homophobic posters go on this forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Moores Mum Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Just now, Confused Clarity said: It tends to be the way that homophobic posters go on this forum. Unfortunately not just this forum, particularly the comparison to paedophilia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Yeah, that's not happening here. Always the way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Did we ban the idiot? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Just now, Ackter said: Did we ban the idiot? He'd already posted some suspect things elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Yeah, from his very first ever post it was clear where it was going. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Ackter said: Did we ban the idiot? Yes, he has gone the way of the dodo. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Homophobic & Racist, I was waiting on what was next from him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopOnBaby Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 2 hours ago, Confused Clarity said: Homophobic & Racist, I was waiting on what was next from him. My money was on Holocaust denier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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