FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[jmlima]

4 hours ago, Ti Ago said:

Why is not available?

'Unfortunately, due to licensing reasons, Football Manager isn't available to purchase in Brazil. '

https://steamcommunity.com/app/2252570/discussions/0/3943524980064202651/

[Birdman10piyu]

SI doesn't owe us anything but really, some actual content of the would have been great instead of a UI mock up, not even the actual UI but a mock up.

They made this whole thing "we'll do a major reveal in Q2". 

Not mad , just disappointed to not have something to salivate over, other than my imagination 

[ANDY1OM]

On 16/08/2024 at 14:33, WizbaII said:

That's not true. FM have tons of competition, especially because football is the most popular sport in the world. But their competition has not been able to accomplish what FM has. Naturally, people are going to go for the best. It's not even just about the variety in the game. I don't think you can show me one game that has a better ME than FM.

What other football management sims is there? There is fm and fm only. They have no competition for a football management sim. 

[Brasilia88]

9 hours ago, Ti Ago said:

Why is not available?

Short answer? Greed... 

Long answer: Brazilian football organization and its' players want money from SI/Sega (?) for using their images, names etc. Hence, why you only have FLA, BOT etc. in the normal version, yet the players by name are. Consequently, in Brazil the game isn't unavailable for purchase and for the foreseeable future it won't be either.    

[eXistenZ]

On 16/08/2024 at 15:33, WizbaII said:

That's not true. FM have tons of competition, especially because football is the most popular sport in the world. But their competition has not been able to accomplish what FM has. Naturally, people are going to go for the best. It's not even just about the variety in the game. I don't think you can show me one game that has a better ME than FM.

And I think you cant show me a game period that plays like FM. Any game where you control players directly like fifa or pes doesnt count btw..

 

really curious what you're going to come up with

[endtime]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1951410/WE_ARE_FOOTBALL_2024/

I think this is the series formerly known as Anstoss/On the Ball

Edited August 18 by endtime

[Smurf]

16 hours ago, ANDY1OM said:

What other football management sims is there? There is fm and fm only. They have no competition for a football management sim. 

Suggest you google it.

[eXistenZ]

37 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Suggest you google it.

A very cheap copout answer and frankly useless

 

Yes,, the very famous football manager lookalike planet zoo....

[GIMN]

2 hours ago, endtime said:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1951410/WE_ARE_FOOTBALL_2024/

I think this is the series formerly known as Anstoss/On the Ball

What's the basis for saying it's linked to Anstoss/On the Ball?

[jmlima]

42 minutes ago, GIMN said:

What's the basis for saying it's linked to Anstoss/On the Ball?

'from the creators of the legendary On the Ball and EA SPORTS FIFA Manager Series!'

https://www.gog.com/en/game/we_are_football_2024

edit: it's all fictional teams and players, some competitions are not present, etc. Not really comparable to FM.

 

Edited August 18 by jmlima
more info

[GIMN]

1 hour ago, jmlima said:

'from the creators of the legendary On the Ball and EA SPORTS FIFA Manager Series!'

https://www.gog.com/en/game/we_are_football_2024

edit: it's all fictional teams and players, some competitions are not present, etc. Not really comparable to FM.

 

Thank you.  It appears that Gerald Kohler is behind it, which certainly makes more likely to give it a go (I dismissed it when it initially came out).

I can't say I subscribe to the "it's not got licensing, so it's not a competitor" argument.  On that basis Pro Evo was never a competitor to FIFA, and the only way we'd ever get an "acceptable" competitor would be if a studio decided to throw a large budget into a genre they otherwise have little experience in.

[jmlima]

21 minutes ago, GIMN said:

Thank you.  It appears that Gerald Kohler is behind it, which certainly makes more likely to give it a go (I dismissed it when it initially came out).

I can't say I subscribe to the "it's not got licensing, so it's not a competitor" argument.  On that basis Pro Evo was never a competitor to FIFA, and the only way we'd ever get an "acceptable" competitor would be if a studio decided to throw a large budget into a genre they otherwise have little experience in.

It's not so much licencing that makes it not a competitor. It's more the fact that it is more of a tycoon game than a football team management game. That game really shines in the 'build a club' mode or type of play. It's a different focus, rather than 'football team management' it's more 'football club management'. In short (and IMO) if you take that game as an alternative to FM you will feel short-changed, if you take it for what it's actually like, it is quite a decent game. If you liked FIFA Manager you are likely to like this one.

To your last point, the only way we will ever get a competitor is precisely if a big studio 'decided to throw a large budget into a genre they otherwise have little experience in', which is why there is nothing really comparable... nor is there likely to be. I mean, this is not a unique position, in this area of sports management sims, OOTP (for example) annihilated whatever little competition it had back in the day. I mean, if FIFA Manager with the backing it had failed, then...

 

[Smurf]

3 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

A very cheap copout answer and frankly useless

 

Yes,, the very famous football manager lookalike planet zoo....

So you googled it, and there are other football manager sim games.

Yes, Planet Zoo is not one of them - well done for realising that all by yourself. 

Quite frankly... what was useless about my suggestion - how is it a cheap cop out?

 

[eXistenZ]

19 minutes ago, Smurf said:

So you googled it, and there are other football manager sim games.

Yes, Planet Zoo is not one of them - well done for realising that all by yourself. 

Quite frankly... what was useless about my suggestion - how is it a cheap cop out?

 

If you know any other good, well established football manager sims, then share them with us instead of being being a "just google it" ass about it?

[Smurf]

36 minutes ago, eXistenZ said:

If you know any other good, well established football manager sims, then share them with us instead of being being a "just google it" ass about it?

Watch your manners.

This thread is about Development of FM - not a thread to find other sim games that rival FM. 

If you want to know them - look them up - you have the whole internet in front of you.

 

[eXistenZ]

13 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Watch your manners.

This thread is about Development of FM - not a thread to find other sim games that rival FM. 

If you want to know them - look them up - you have the whole internet in front of you.

 

Again copout. Are you fishing for an SI job? You're not a mod so far so I dont take orders from you.

 

Several of us claim that the lack of proper competition is bad for FM's development. You claim there is proper competition? then give us examples. if you cant, zip it.

Talking about competitors is perfectly normal (in a healthy environment). When Civ 7 was announced, people made comparison to hings other 4X games do and what they could emulate of them or avoid.

 

You know, send me a DM then with examples if you're so concerned about the "purity" of this thread. I can use a good laugh

Edited August 18 by eXistenZ

[XaW]

10 minutes ago, eXistenZ said:

You're not a mod so far so I dont take orders from you.

Well, I am a mod, and I'm telling you two to stop this discussion here. Take it to PMs if you want to continue this.

[GIMN]

6 hours ago, jmlima said:

It's not so much licencing that makes it not a competitor. It's more the fact that it is more of a tycoon game than a football team management game. That game really shines in the 'build a club' mode or type of play. It's a different focus, rather than 'football team management' it's more 'football club management'. In short (and IMO) if you take that game as an alternative to FM you will feel short-changed, if you take it for what it's actually like, it is quite a decent game. If you liked FIFA Manager you are likely to like this one.

I loved On The Ball.  Well, actually, still love.  I have it on my laptop and still play it every now and then.  There is definitely a broader focus beyond just the playing squad, although I would say that FM is the outlier here.  FIFA Manager, the Manager, the Premier Manager series, Ultimate Soccer Manager, etc... - all other Football management games that ever had any kind of success tended to cover more of the external stuff, too.  To be honest, that's less of an appeal to me, but there's always clamour on here from some for FM to add those features.

Maybe that's the problem.  To appeal to enough people to get a foot through the door, you need a broad focus.  That restricts the time spent on perfecting the key aspects.

[kiwityke1983]

9 hours ago, GIMN said:

I loved On The Ball.  Well, actually, still love.  I have it on my laptop and still play it every now and then.  There is definitely a broader focus beyond just the playing squad, although I would say that FM is the outlier here.  FIFA Manager, the Manager, the Premier Manager series, Ultimate Soccer Manager, etc... - all other Football management games that ever had any kind of success tended to cover more of the external stuff, too.  To be honest, that's less of an appeal to me, but there's always clamour on here from some for FM to add those features.

Maybe that's the problem.  To appeal to enough people to get a foot through the door, you need a broad focus.  That restricts the time spent on perfecting the key aspects.

I might be in a minority but I always hated the extra stuff in those games.

I don't care what soda costs or what state the concession stands are in and I doubt any manager ever has done.

It just never appealed to me and always felt really boring.

[dannyfc]

I know SIGames would never go down this route but I loved the aesthetic of Premier Manager with the landline telephone and notepad as an graphic interface for signing players.

A lot more could be done to build on the manager role-play aspect and give the game less of a spreadsheet feel.

Even basic things like improving the match audio would make the game more immersive. Or personalised stadia, if it's too much work then release an editor so the community game handcraft these for every club. Just more to give a sense of identity and differentiation for the club you are managing, through the background landscape, facilities, playing surface extra. Seeing that change and evolve through your career at the club. Getting a randomised update to the match shirt as a news items for a new season. For sponsorships, maybe you start with the local butcher and end up with a multinational deal as you grow, but an identity and name attached to them rather than just a financial number in a sub-page. 

Just little aesthetic and atmospheric touches like that would go a long way imo. 

Edited August 19 by dannyfc

[kiwityke1983]

32 minutes ago, dannyfc said:

I know SIGames would never go down this route but I loved the aesthetic of Premier Manager with the landline telephone and notepad as an graphic interface for signing players.

A lot more could be done to build on the manager role-play aspect and give the game less of a spreadsheet feel.

Even basic things like improving the match audio would make the game more immersive. Or personalised stadia, if it's too much work then release an editor so the community game handcraft these for every club. Just more to give a sense of identity and differentiation for the club you are managing, through the background landscape, facilities, playing surface extra. Seeing that change and evolve through your career at the club. Getting a randomised update to the match shirt as a news items for a new season. For sponsorships, maybe you start with the local butcher and end up with a multinational deal as you grow, but an identity and name attached to them rather than just a financial number in a sub-page. 

Just little aesthetic and atmospheric touches like that would go a long way imo. 

I've wanted a kit designer for years never suggested it because I suspect they can't do it for licensed teams.

Would be the number one thing for improving my immersion they could do though.

(I do use a third party app to achieve this but I'd love it to be in the base game)

[DMC-12]

I'm looking forward to the next update, mainly as I don't think it can be less underwhelming than the last one. Hopefully there'll be more information what's in the game, rather than what's been taken out, and some proper images of what it looks like (the examples shown last time weren't great and it would have been better to show nothing than those ones!). 

The next update might actually be better as a video, to show how the new game plays (even in an early state). Just not a 42 minute long one!

[Carmi88]

FM25 was trending earlier and it got me all excited for no reason

[Federico]

Honestly speaking, I was expecting a bit more updates considering the biggest change in the FM history and also considering what Miles said about it.

It's almost September, beta will be probably rolled out in less than 1 month and at the moment all we know about FM25 is just a couple of screenshots quite similar to any other FM - graphically speaking.

I don't know this is a 20 years long standing franchise and FM25 will be something that never happened before and we have such a few informations about it when there's so much hype to exploit, I mean  I'm not expecting fireworks of course.

[Federico]

To complete my post above, about FM25 we know what has been removed and not what has been added/renewed/improved.

Reverse hype psychology. 

I don't get this.

[El Payaso]

1 hour ago, Federico said:

To complete my post above, about FM25 we know what has been removed and not what has been added/renewed/improved.

Reverse hype psychology. 

I don't get this.

Same. Would be an ideal time to build up hype but it's been quiet the whole year. Hard to understand why things are done this way but it doesn't really come to me as a surprise. 

[grade]

I would love for SI (or sigames), bring some mods (editor and graphics) to the later stages of development (or during Beta), not only to test things out, but provide mods the ability to release their stuff on release day, specially if we are talking about a new graphic engine, those people who use 2d kits and 3D kits (as this kinda of things take its time to do), would appreciate that mods had access to this kind of stuff.

But after seeing past releases, it seems kinda of unlikely to happen…

I know one thing, with Planet Coaster 2 in the fall of this year and Civilization 7 in February 2025, SI really need to convince me to part with my money. At this point, they have yet to convince me or seen actual effort to do so (blog in June really shows this).

 

Edited August 24 by grade

[jmlima]

6 hours ago, Federico said:

To complete my post above, about FM25 we know what has been removed and not what has been added/renewed/improved.

...

Is there any confirmation those items were all that were removed?...

I think even there we know a bit. Maybe those are the most significant items, maybe all, but does it say that's all that will not be migrated?

[CrowManager]

On 19/08/2024 at 01:42, kiwityke1983 said:

I might be in a minority but I always hated the extra stuff in those games.

I don't care what soda costs or what state the concession stands are in and I doubt any manager ever has done.

It just never appealed to me and always felt really boring.

Basically that sort of thing was appealing in late 2000s Madden etc games and there is a decent chunk of Americans who have that appeal

[whatsupdoc]

Has there been any word at all on the match engine? There's been some speculation that it won't get much work considering the other development areas.

[El Payaso]

3 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

Has there been any word at all on the match engine? There's been some speculation that it won't get much work considering the other development areas.

Haven't seen anything. And don't know where this view of the ME not changing is coming from either. But another year with a set pieces dominated match engine would be a huge bummer for me. 

[DavutOzkan]

It's almost like, hey the new seasons are underway across Europe, people are getting excited to start new saves in the new FM, but no, radio silence instead. 

[XV20]

international break is pretty close, prob. hear something from them around that time..

[grade]

6 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

Has there been any word at all on the match engine? There's been some speculation that it won't get much work considering the other development areas.

Short answer, no.

Longer answer... Don't have time to write, what I already said here in this thread.

[davehanson]

On 23/08/2024 at 17:45, Federico said:

Honestly speaking, I was expecting a bit more updates considering the biggest change in the FM history and also considering what Miles said about it.

It's almost September, beta will be probably rolled out in less than 1 month and at the moment all we know about FM25 is just a couple of screenshots quite similar to any other FM - graphically speaking.

I don't know this is a 20 years long standing franchise and FM25 will be something that never happened before and we have such a few informations about it when there's so much hype to exploit, I mean  I'm not expecting fireworks of course.

Beta is out usually 2 weeks (ish) before the game is released. The game is usually released first week of November - I see no reason to believe that this timeline will be drastically different. So beta release about 11 weeks from now - not sure where on earth you are getting a beta release of a month from?

[Federico]

4 minuti fa, davehanson ha scritto:

Beta is out usually 2 weeks (ish) before the game is released. The game is usually released first week of November - I see no reason to believe that this timeline will be drastically different. So beta release about 11 weeks from now - not sure where on earth you are getting a beta release of a month from?

I don't think that was my point my friend.

[davehanson]

9 minutes ago, Federico said:

I don't think that was my point my friend.

It's almost September, beta will be probably rolled out in less than 1 month

 

[grade]

13 hours ago, davehanson said:

It's almost September, beta will be probably rolled out in less than 1 month

 

Normally...

during September, we have the first reveal video, with the release date (normally around 7 or 9 day of November) and pre-order announcement with the discount which they did in previous years (not sure if they are doing this year).

Between September and mid-October, we have a few blog posts or videos of other feature announcements.

And the Beta is going to be released 2 weeks before the release date, so probably around the end of October.

This is what is normally done last few years, but no means it will happen this year as well. Pure speculation at this point.

[Federico]

14 ore fa, davehanson ha scritto:

It's almost September, beta will be probably rolled out in less than 1 month

My point was that I was expecting more updates in the meantime considering that the release date is relatively close.

FM25 is going to be revolutionary but my feelings are that this change is not treated as it should - or as I was expecting - at the moment in my opinion.

Edited August 26 by Federico

[jmlima]

48 minutes ago, Federico said:

My point was that I was expecting more updates in the meantime considering that the release date is relatively close.

FM25 is going to be revolutionary but my feelings are that this change is not treated as it should - or as I was expecting - at the moment in my opinion.

The thing that honestly surprises me is not even the absence of communication, that's explained by the unique market position of FM. What really surprises me is the absence of a massive open beta testing. For such a monumental change it's surprising that what must be a big beta testing happening right now behind the scenes, followed by what must have been also a large alpha testing, has been kept so under wraps that all we saw from the game thus far were some mock-up images of a couple of menus. I mean, it's far better managed in terms of secrecy than most gov programmes.

Or, they are just rolling the dice that it will work come October.

[delpiero19]

23 hours ago, DavutOzkan said:

It's almost like, hey the new seasons are underway across Europe, people are getting excited to start new saves in the new FM, but no, radio silence instead. 

I say it every year. The timing of SI making no sense.

 

[Deloma]

It's too bad that we are not getting any info but I'm sure they have their reasons. From my experience with SW dev, getting out too early tends to lead to mostly getting reply from people that are upset with your decisions so there is nothing to gain unless you're not particuallry sure about your decision and want to  get a sense of what the users actually think. In SI's case I'd assume they have data on how much most of the features are used and based on that data they can make decisions when to remove something they feel is not working or being utilized well. 

 

 

[grade]

1 hour ago, Deloma said:

It's too bad that we are not getting any info but I'm sure they have their reasons. From my experience with SW dev, getting out too early tends to lead to mostly getting reply from people that are upset with your decisions so there is nothing to gain unless you're not particuallry sure about your decision and want to  get a sense of what the users actually think. In SI's case I'd assume they have data on how much most of the features are used and based on that data they can make decisions when to remove something they feel is not working or being utilized well. 

 

 

Seeing other devs doing differently, showing their games for at least 6 months or even more; I wonder what is so different from SI, this is such a secret.

Maybe it's the footage or the game isn't at the state they wanted or something of the like. There is such a disconnect in terms of how things are going and the costumer base, No wonder there is so much speculation and expectation.

[ForTheLoveOfTheGame]

4 hours ago, grade said:

Seeing other devs doing differently, showing their games for at least 6 months or even more; I wonder what is so different from SI, this is such a secret.

Maybe it's the footage or the game isn't at the state they wanted or something of the like. There is such a disconnect in terms of how things are going and the costumer base, No wonder there is so much speculation and expectation.

I think that’s probably the case.

If they can’t show us anything from a brand new game, on a brand new engine then it’s a bit worrying.

Find it hard to believe they would deliberately choose to hold information about the revolutionary new game so late if they was happy with the state of it. 

[Federico]

2 minuti fa, ForTheLoveOfTheGame ha scritto:

Find it hard to believe they would deliberately choose to hold information about the revolutionary new game so late if they was happy with the state of it. 

No I don't think so. I totally trust the SI devs, their skills and passion. They of course don't want to rush things as they always did.

I hoped it was different this time, but I'm gonna wait patiently, as I always did.

[forameuss]

10 hours ago, jmlima said:

The thing that honestly surprises me is not even the absence of communication, that's explained by the unique market position of FM. What really surprises me is the absence of a massive open beta testing. For such a monumental change it's surprising that what must be a big beta testing happening right now behind the scenes, followed by what must have been also a large alpha testing, has been kept so under wraps that all we saw from the game thus far were some mock-up images of a couple of menus. I mean, it's far better managed in terms of secrecy than most gov programmes.

Or, they are just rolling the dice that it will work come October.

Doesn't really surprise me.  The usefulness of an open beta is purely dependent on how it is going to be treated by the player-base. You can guarantee that if they released an open beta tomorrow, the vast majority of people would treat it as a personal test drive rather than its true purpose. The forum would be full of posts complaining about the state of the game and completely miss the irony that a beta usually is janky and that's why you've been asked to play it.  That's why they employ a closed beta so they can better select the sort of people who aren't just in it to see the game.

Also can't think of many games on strict yearly cycles that employ longer open betas.  The timescales are just too squashed. 

[jmlima]

1 hour ago, forameuss said:

Doesn't really surprise me.  The usefulness of an open beta is purely dependent on how it is going to be treated by the player-base. You can guarantee that if they released an open beta tomorrow, the vast majority of people would treat it as a personal test drive rather than its true purpose. The forum would be full of posts complaining about the state of the game and completely miss the irony that a beta usually is janky and that's why you've been asked to play it.  That's why they employ a closed beta so they can better select the sort of people who aren't just in it to see the game.

Also can't think of many games on strict yearly cycles that employ longer open betas.  The timescales are just too squashed. 

One thought. Open beta of course follows closed beta. Open beta is what they usually do for 15 days but, given the monumental change it would be done earlier and for an extended period of time, using an old database and without editing tools. (For an example see WOTC and MTGA, being that MTGA has almost bi-monthly release cycles as opposed to yearly) But, this would assume the game was done way before release. In the example given, open beta lasted for the best part of an entire year... In any case, it's a moot point. If they won't bother with feedback even from images of the completed game they have in their hands as opposed to mock-ups (game is either 99% completed by now or release will be... interesting) they wouldn't certainly care for extensive open testing of their new engine. Horses for courses, each corporation to its own.

Edit - I wasn't for a second assuming this would happen with every release. This would be the first release of this migration to unity.

Edited August 26 by jmlima

[eekaboo]

It's all gone very quiet with the announcements. If the beta is out in roughly 2 months, you think they would at least release a few screenshots...

[HUNT3R]

Just now, eekaboo said:

It's all gone very quiet with the announcements.

It isn't September yet. That's why it is quiet.

[Robbie Hood]

Sure it would be nice to get more updates about FM25, but Miles was crystal clear about the timeline in the development update:

Football Manager 25’s release date will be confirmed in early September, with pre-orders opening at the same time. We’ll begin unveiling new gameplay elements shortly thereafter.

https://www.footballmanager.com/news/development-update-football-manager-25