FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[matthew1310]

Removing the possibility to manage national teams in the upcoming FM25 in my opinion it is a terrible choice. FM It is one of my favorite game which I have been playing for years and I am always managed every  year also national teams. So yesterday I was shocked by this decision. I kindly ask to sport interactive to add this mode in future as free dlc for the game FM25. At the same time I ask all players who care about international teams management to write in this topic to show that we value this mode. If a lot of people  show the  disappointment maybe they can rethink about this decision.

[matthew1310]

Will be possible at least with pre game editor to make national teams playable

[Costav]

11 minutes ago, davehanson said:

M24 was polished, or a polished version of FM23 - which I think was what most of us were expecting once they announced FM25 switching to Unity.

I don't disagree, but long-term saves are still (a bit, and less than earlier) lacking of something from the AI side

[Spedding]

2 minutes ago, matthew1310 said:

Will be possible at least with pre game editor to make national teams playable

if it was that easy they would of made it playable

[matthew1310]

Yes but in my opinion this mode it’s important !

it is football.

you can manage national teams even in FIFA 20 !

why you should remove this from a football manager mode ?

it is a simulator. How can I live a football season as manager if I can’t be CT. It is one of the main goals of the entire career

[JAwtunes]

1 hour ago, XaW said:

I had the first one after the split (which I didn't know about at the time) and decided then and there that I'd rather not buy any more CMs. Then I heard that SI lost the name, but the kept the game rebranded as FM and I got that and life was good again. That post-SI CM was awful, really really awful.

That said, "The Manager" was a cracking game I played way too much as a kid! For the memories:

I remember that split too.  As you say, the Eidos CM games were so bad.  I think they limped along for a few years but gave up eventually.

[jcw163]

1 hour ago, sc91 said:

To turn that on it's head, I am sure SI will accurately reflect this in the games box price.

"Improved focus on club management, an extra £10 on last year please"

[CamAshworth]

5 minutes ago, JAwtunes said:

I remember that split too.  As you say, the Eidos CM games were so bad.  I think they limped along for a few years but gave up eventually.

Yeah they released quite a few on Playstation 2 and Xbox if I remember correctly. Also a few iterations of Premier manager knocking about at the same time.

[Novem9]

22 минуты назад, whatsupdoc сказал:

At this point I don't even know whether to believe the manual.

[grade]

18 minutes ago, matthew1310 said:

Will be possible at least with pre game editor to make national teams playable

I would be surprise if the editor wouldn't be available for FM25.

The dangerous part of removing things from games, despite liking them or not, it simple removes all rules off the table. And everything can get removed from the game at that point on. Since now Miles focus to what features are removed is dependent on percentage of how many users use... I mean the editor is one of those things that isn't use by the majority of the user base.

I hope that doesn't happen, but I'm keeping my expectation low. Having an editor on FM25, with no changes, the exact same as FM24 is win for me... but I don't buy FM just for the Editor and Miles is doing terrible job in selling me FM25 at this point...

[KrvakForLife]

2 minutos atrás, grade disse:

I would be surprise if the editor wouldn't be available for FM25.

The dangerous part of removing things from games, despite liking them or not, it simple removes all rules off the table. And everything can get removed from the game at that point on. Since now Miles focus to what features are removed is dependent on percentage of how many users use... I mean the editor is one of those things that isn't use by the majority of the user base.

I hope that doesn't happen, but I'm keeping my expectation low. Having an editor on FM25, with no changes, the exact same as FM24 is win for me... but I don't buy FM just for the Editor and Miles is doing terrible job in selling me FM25 at this point...

If the editor is not available, sales will drop a lot, almost no one plays the game without the namefix.

[Harima83]

More than development updates, they look like development downgrades.

Edited September 5 by Harima83

[kiwityke1983]

2 hours ago, XaW said:

I had the first one after the split (which I didn't know about at the time) and decided then and there that I'd rather not buy any more CMs. Then I heard that SI lost the name, but the kept the game rebranded as FM and I got that and life was good again. That post-SI CM was awful, really really awful.

That said, "The Manager" was a cracking game I played way too much as a kid! For the memories:

I literally only bought the Champ Manager after the split because I didn't know the split had happened.

Was really disappointed and shocked at how awful the game had gotten, then my house mate told me SI had split with Eidos and started FM.

Bought FM instantly stopped playing that years Champ Man.

Didn't buy the following years Champ Man and I don't think they ever made a third!

[CaptainSa]

2 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Didn't buy the following years Champ Man and I don't think they ever made a third!

Not only did they do a third, they actually did a fourth! And a PSP game.  By 2010, the last PC edition, they were actually doing alright - not as good as FM, but they were closing the gap a bit. But in 2009 Eidos had merged with Square Enix, who decided that it didn't want to sports games except as mobile offerings, and milked the name for all it could with a serious very :mobile: games, shortening the series name to Champ Man before reverting to the old name for a final Championship Manager game released in 2017. It, along with all the mobile offerings, was removed from app stores in 2018 and the servers were taken down.

[latrell]

deeply concerned about everything in this update i was hoping adding the woman's database to fm would not mess with the mens game and could exist and thrive on its own, SI leave the weight there for the mens game but in the woman's database just do not have it showing. 

[CaptainSa]

2 minutes ago, latrell said:

deeply concerned about everything in this update i was hoping adding the woman's database to fm would not mess with the mens game and could exist and thrive on its own, SI leave the weight there for the mens game but in the woman's database just do not have it showing. 

It's not two different database's - it's all one database. You'll be able to add and remove women's leagues in the same way you add or remove men's ones.

[kiwityke1983]

2 hours ago, kevhamster said:

Let's be honest, international management in FM24 is crap, and the mode has always been half-baked and a complete afterthought.

If it being kept out for FM25 means it comes back as a much improved option in FM26, then I prefer them taking the route they're taking.

Of course, the proof is in the pudding so to speak, so when it comes to the stuff they're taking out, I'm keeping an open mind as to what I think of the game until I actually have it in my hands.  Personally, I'd have preferred that SI showed us something, even if just a single still screenshot, of what to expect in terms of what the 3D match engine will look like.

I do agree that the lack of any shots of anything taken in-engine (even the screens we saw were just concept shots and not taken from a build of the game) does give cause for concern about how the game will actually be.  

This is how I feel, I'm keeping an open mind until I play it but the lack of actual positivity even a screenshot has me worried.

[Malicious Penguin]

I mean... maybe if they'd done any sort of improvement to international management over the last decade the need to remove it to revamp it wouldn't be necessary. 

[kevhamster]

1 minute ago, Malicious Penguin said:

I mean... maybe if they'd done any sort of improvement to international management over the last decade the need to remove it to revamp it wouldn't be necessary. 

Irrelevant really when FM25 is being rebuilt from the ground up.  

I do agree though that it's needed improvement for a long time.  Hopefully it will actually be worth considering in FM26.

[kevhamster]

6 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

This is how I feel, I'm keeping an open mind until I play it but the lack of actual positivity even a screenshot has me worried.

Yeah.  I'm not going to be surprised if there's a further delay beyond what's already announced to be honest.  It does sound very much like SI are much further behind where they intended to be at this point.

[wazzaflow10]

1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

I am not asking to copy the Paradox exactly.

You're asking them to follow their model which isn't feasible because they don't have the "relatively infinite" timeline paradox has when developing a new game.

FM25 has to come out in a window or they likely breach license contracts or can't use licenses or who knows what other myriad of issues they run into. They probably delayed the release as long as they were contractually allowed. We know what the game will look like as a whole. Paradox games have dev diaries because they're making fictional worlds where you want to know what is capable/possible and the direction the game is headed. They serve as soft promos for the product before a longer, larger gameplay trailer can be released.

I think for FM we know we're going to be managing a football club and we generally know what's possible within the universe. The feature releases are also part of hyping the game up before its released so if you're revealing features in dev diaries months in advance you're taking away some of the hype that gets generated around the time the game can actually be sold. And for a game that relies on yearly sales you need to entice people to pay for a new version. Hyping a game up in June when it doesn't release until November isn't a successful model. They're probably not even done work yet to say if the feature is release-able.

I'm sure yesterday was meant to be a roadmap of feature release updates like last year. As it turns out they needed to take a step back. Comments like these make it seem like they're damned if they provide an update and damned if they don't.

[Fat_Frank8]

4 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The actual issue here is you're assuming womens football being prioritised over international football. There a loads of features that will be in that will take time and resources.

The actual issue here is Unity. They are using Unity as a chance to rebuild entire elements. Womens football is being built with Unity in mind. International football needs to be rebuilt to make it a much better module. Do better than calling "pathetic box ticking" because thats insulting. 

Of course, but surely they could’ve used all of the time they spent on building Womens football with Unity in mind to implement international football with Unity in mind. 

[themadsheep2001]

45 minutes ago, kevhamster said:

Irrelevant really when FM25 is being rebuilt from the ground up.  

I do agree though that it's needed improvement for a long time.  Hopefully it will actually be worth considering in FM26.

It's been need ripping up for years. That said its going to have to be pretty special in FM26. 

[Novem9]

19 минут назад, wazzaflow10 сказал:

You're asking them to follow their model which isn't feasible because they don't have the "relatively infinite" timeline paradox has when developing a new game.

FM25 has to come out in a window or they likely breach license contracts or can't use licenses or who knows what other myriad of issues they run into. They probably delayed the release as long as they were contractually allowed. We know what the game will look like as a whole. Paradox games have dev diaries because they're making fictional worlds where you want to know what is capable/possible and the direction the game is headed. They serve as soft promos for the product before a longer, larger gameplay trailer can be released.

I think for FM we know we're going to be managing a football club and we generally know what's possible within the universe. The feature releases are also part of hyping the game up before its released so if you're revealing features in dev diaries months in advance you're taking away some of the hype that gets generated around the time the game can actually be sold. And for a game that relies on yearly sales you need to entice people to pay for a new version. Hyping a game up in June when it doesn't release until November isn't a successful model. They're probably not even done work yet to say if the feature is release-able.

I'm sure yesterday was meant to be a roadmap of feature release updates like last year. As it turns out they needed to take a step back. Comments like these make it seem like they're damned if they provide an update and damned if they don't.

You're talking to yourself. I already said that you don't have to copy Paradox and their diaries completely. There are different ways to talk about development without specific details, just giving the fanbase a trickle of involvement.

The part about hype is pointless. Promos don't work like that, especially if you stick to the model of storytelling without loud insiders, which is what I was talking about. FM has a large fanbase that is waiting for the game one way or another.

I think everyone will stick to their opinion. I heard your arguments, but it seems to me that SI will only benefit from more openness.

[Brentford Alan]

19 minutes ago, Fat_Frank8 said:

Of course, but surely they could’ve used all of the time they spent on building Womens football with Unity in mind to implement international football with Unity in mind. 

It wont have been a binary choice between the two and even if it was it's SI's product, they're free to focus on whichever they think will be most beneficial to their game and prospective player base. There must be something in it as EA have added women's leagues to their career mode for this year's offering, and we know they won't do anything unless it means more £€$ for them.

[Aim_Less]

3 hours ago, sc91 said:

To turn that on it's head, I am sure SI will accurately reflect this in the games box price.

 

Hey I have a bridge to sell you if that's what you believe.

They have a monopoly, improvements? Listen to customers ? What's that?

They took the playbook from EA your paying full price for less and don't worry international management will be next year's front and centre promoted feature has " new " 

Edited September 5 by Aim_Less

[wazzaflow10]

41 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

You're talking to yourself. I already said that you don't have to copy Paradox and their diaries completely. There are different ways to talk about development without specific details, just giving the fanbase a trickle of involvement.

The part about hype is pointless. Promos don't work like that, especially if you stick to the model of storytelling without loud insiders, which is what I was talking about. FM has a large fanbase that is waiting for the game one way or another.

I think everyone will stick to their opinion. I heard your arguments, but it seems to me that SI will only benefit from more openness.

Ok then.

[DJ Sir Matthew]

3 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Dont think ive ever paid more than 29.99 for FM, getting a deal isnt hard, even at launch

I just got FM24 for free  like a year ago I got FM23 for free. And 2 years ago with FM22. And actually I don't mind waiting close to a year to get the game for free. There are always DB updates available, all tips&tricks are readily available if needed, the game is in its 'finished' state, and it's new version for me anyways... of course, if everyone would start doing that...

Edit: And I'm actually currently really enjoying a FM23 save, so don't know if I'm even going to install/play FM24 (even with the save game compatibility).

For FM25 I hope for a FIFA-like match experience with a CM 01/02 feel of speed and a never before witnessed ME depth. If they can get that right, I just might buy it this year

Edited September 5 by DJ Sir Matthew

[Harryhi]

Honestly, SI, I’m cool with the delays, even if you delay it till Christmas or early 2025. I’d rather it be a good working game as intended rather than rushed out tbh. 

[Bunkerossian]

Delays are fine, I think some previous games should have been delayed. But completely tossing out international football is not fine. It's not a minor feature like Create a Club.

[Aim_Less]

1 hour ago, DJ Sir Matthew said:

I just got FM24 for free  like a year ago I got FM23 for free. And 2 years ago with FM22. And actually I don't mind waiting close to a year to get the game for free. There are always DB updates available, all tips&tricks are readily available if needed, the game is in its 'finished' state, and it's new version for me anyways... of course, if everyone would start doing that...

Edit: And I'm actually currently really enjoying a FM23 save, so don't know if I'm even going to install/play FM24 (even with the save game compatibility).

For FM25 I hope for a FIFA-like match experience with a CM 01/02 feel of speed and a never before witnessed ME depth. If they can get that right, I just might buy it this year

SI still gets paid for those free installs , public info in regards to the epic deal has been out for a long time ( not SI specific but yeah) they will get money if the game is installed if you just add to the account they wont see a penny 

[ScotchWhisky]

On 04/09/2024 at 11:54, XaW said:

Not sure what your point is? I've had the same experience as you, but that doesn't mean it's ok. Should we require everyone to go through hardship and namecalling as a rite of passage to join communities such as this?

Also, women's football has increased a lot late, so I think it's fitting that it's implemented now.

The point is, I think women want to be seen as strong and would proudly proclaim they are a woman in support of the feature.

As for women's football, only 4% of FIFA '22 players played a women's football match.  It was easy to track as playing one match unlocks an achievement.  Half them were probably achievement chasers.

https://www.thegamer.com/fifa-22-women-achievement/

It's all pandering.  And you know, if it was as easy as adding more leagues with women players, sure.  I'm all for it.  If other sacrifices are made, then it's not worth it.  And no, weight is not important.  But such a dumb reason for not including it.  "Real life women will he offended at their weight, so let's just turn it off for all!"  Despite how unimportant it is, it takes away from the immersion of playing an in depth sim.

[DP]

2 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It's been need ripping up for years. That said its going to have to be pretty special in FM26. 

How can it be ‘pretty special’ though? Whatever they do with it, it cannot be as involved as the club career. 

I actually like the way it’s implemented now as it allows you to play alongside your club. If they add lots of micromanagement to make this harder, it would actually be a backward step. 

The focus really should be on tweaking a few things such as training, dynamics and international player interaction - if they add too much other stuff it’ll be too time consuming to do alongside your club. And let’s be honest, there just isn’t enough fun stuff in between tournaments to make it viable as a mode without a club. 

Edited September 5 by DP

[Brentford Alan]

4 minutes ago, ScotchWhisky said:

.  But such a dumb reason for not including it.  "Real life women will he offended at their weight, so let's just turn it off for all!"  Despite how unimportant it is, it takes away from the immersion of playing an in depth sim.

 

Can you reference where someone from SI has given this as the reason why it's been removed please?

[Carmi88]

16 minutes ago, ScotchWhisky said:

The point is, I think women want to be seen as strong and would proudly proclaim they are a woman in support of the feature.

As for women's football, only 4% of FIFA '22 players played a women's football match.  It was easy to track as playing one match unlocks an achievement.  Half them were probably achievement chasers.

https://www.thegamer.com/fifa-22-women-achievement/

It's all pandering.  And you know, if it was as easy as adding more leagues with women players, sure.  I'm all for it.  If other sacrifices are made, then it's not worth it.  And no, weight is not important.  But such a dumb reason for not including it.  "Real life women will he offended at their weight, so let's just turn it off for all!"  Despite how unimportant it is, it takes away from the immersion of playing an in depth sim.

A better measurement (but harder to track) would be seeing how many players have a female in their UT since that is the only thing that matters to the player base of fifa.

[ScotchWhisky]

4 minutes ago, Brentford Alan said:

 

Can you reference where someone from SI has given this as the reason why it's been removed please?

It's obvious.  

"their weights fluctuate a lot more, often weekly

...

will still be included under the hood, but it won't be visible on the front end anymore."

Obviously, they are afraid women will be offended because if it is under the hood, then it exists, and in some way matters.  

You know what the issue is with women's football?  The entire game is slower, so I'm sure the whole ME must he rewritten.  You'd think they could probably just reskin the Swedish 2nd division, but then, any Swedish 2nd division team could probably beat the top women's international teams.  Just like when Serena was beat by the 200 something ranked man in her prime.  They'll have to redo long kicks because women cannot kick the ball as far as men.  What a waste of resources to appease 4% (the number who played a women's match in FIFA '22).

[ScotchWhisky]

5 minutes ago, Carmi88 said:

A better measurement (but harder to track) would be seeing how many players have a female in their UT since that is the only thing that matters to the player base of fifa.

Last FIFA I played was 2016 as UT killed the game even then.  There are mixed league UTs?

Edited September 5 by ScotchWhisky

[Brentford Alan]

3 minutes ago, ScotchWhisky said:

It's obvious.  

"their weights fluctuate a lot more, often weekly

...

will still be included under the hood, but it won't be visible on the front end anymore."

Obviously, they are afraid women will be offended because if it is under the hood, then it exists, and in some way matters.  

 

 

Yeah obviously.

 

Or they can't model it correctly as it's more difficult than it is to model for men so it's been removed. There isn't a word in there that can be construed to what you've said.

[saihtam]

4 minutes ago, ScotchWhisky said:

Last FIFA I played was 2016 as UT killed the game even then.  There are mixed league UT?

Ofcourse, they found a way to muddle the packs even more and fill them with female players. EA knows how to make money.

[ScotchWhisky]

16 minutes ago, Brentford Alan said:

 

Yeah obviously.

 

Or they can't model it correctly as it's more difficult than it is to model for men so it's been removed. There isn't a word in there that can be construed to what you've said.

Then why does it still exist under the hood?

And you know why I loathe women's football coming in?  I led Flekkeroy to the Norwegian Premier division and am a top 5 club.  Flekkeroy is listed as being in Kristiansand.  I actually visited it this past spring in real life and it's a short bus ride and they play in Kristiansand anyways.  Kristiansand's main team is Start.  Despite Start being a First Division Team and my whipping boy when we do play (they sometimes get promoted for a year, or meet in cup games), I can only almost sellout when hosting them.  They still draw large crowds.  I can't even draw 1000.  In real life, my team would be the rage for the area.  Nope.  Can't grow.  Can't use many of the board requests.  All that work for nothing. 

This has been an issue forever (just one example), so I was excited for this overhaul.  Must mean new features, right?  Fixes to broken systems, right?  Nope.  Just stripped features and women's football. 

*Edit*

How about player interactions overhaul?  "We're shooting for a mid-table finish" (despite finishing top half prior year) and morale collapses because it's asking too much of them.  Or you tell a minorly injured player you're going to rest him a game and he gets all pissy...  Found it's just better not to tell him and he won't care.

🙄

Edited September 5 by ScotchWhisky

[ScotchWhisky]

6 minutes ago, saihtam said:

Ofcourse, they found a way to muddle the packs even more and fill them with female players. EA knows how to make money.

I wish people would stop buying all that "lootbox" junk.  But I admit it can be addicting.  Played a few phone games with those.  Never again!  But it sells.  :/

[Brentford Alan]

1 minute ago, ScotchWhisky said:

Then why does it still exist under the hood?

And you know why I loathe women's football coming in?  I led Flekkeroy to the Norwegian Premier division and am a top 5 club.  Flekkeroy is listed as being in Kristiansand.  I actually visited it this past spring in real life and it's a short bus ride and they play in Kristiansand anyways.  Kristiansand's main team is Start.  Despite Start being a First Division Team and my whipping boy when we do play (they sometimes get promoted for a year, or meet in cup games), I can only almost sellout when hosting them.  They still draw large crowds.  I can't even draw 1000.  In real life, my team would be the rage for the area.  Nope.  Can't grow.  Can't use many of the board requests.  All that work for nothing. 

This has been an issue forever (just one example), so I was excited for this overhaul.  Must mean new features, right?  Fixes to broken systems, right?  Nope.  Just stripped features and women's football.  🙄

 

So there is some differential in the player animations you see in the graphics engine.

Do you honestly think they're done with pre-release announcements including updated elements and new features nearly 3 months before the rescheduled release date? Even in Miles' blog he says another one is due in a few weeks...

[ajw10]

Honestly, Si's PR is absolutely dreadful. Anyone with half a brain would know that announcing the weight thing in the way they did would cause more people to hate on women's football.

 

[2feet]

They may have removed the weight attribute because players might now physically change appearance as they age and grow?

And it was difficult to calculate what the attribute should state for any given year so that it matches the appearance?

Just a guess

[the_hdk]

4 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It's been need ripping up for years. That said its going to have to be pretty special in FM26. 

so why buy this years version?  so far all we hear is reasons NOT to buy it. 

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, the_hdk said:

so why buy this years version?  so far all we hear is reasons NOT to buy it. 

Why are you asking me? I'm not here to convince you to buy or not buy FM, or anything for that matter 

[the_hdk]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Why are you asking me? I'm not here to convince you to buy or not buy FM, or anything for that matter 

I asked you as you said "That said its going to have to be pretty special in FM26. "

that seemed to me you tried to softed it up by saying that next year SI will re-add it and it will be much better. but maybe im reading into things. Either way i'm unsure what SI is doing at this point. they are def not trying to sell their product...that is an interesting tactic to say the least

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, the_hdk said:

I asked you as you said "That said its going to have to be pretty special in FM26. "

that seemed to me you tried to softed it up by saying that next year SI will re-add it and it will be much better. but maybe im reading into things. Either way i'm unsure what SI is doing at this point. they are def not trying to sell their product...that is an interesting tactic to say the least

I think you're reading far too much into what i said. 

Its SI's own words that they intend to bring it back in a better format - its in the development update post 

[ajw10]

2 minutes ago, the_hdk said:

I asked you as you said "That said its going to have to be pretty special in FM26. "

that seemed to me you tried to softed it up by saying that next year SI will re-add it and it will be much better. but maybe im reading into things. Either way i'm unsure what SI is doing at this point. they are def not trying to sell their product...that is an interesting tactic to say the least

he's clearly saying that FM26 needs to be special after FM24 was a glorified FM23 update and FM25 seems like it's going to have issues (and has lost multiple features)

ah international football needs to be special.

Edited September 5 by ajw10

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, ajw10 said:

he's clearly saying that FM26 needs to be special after FM24 was a glorified FM23 update and FM25 seems like it's going to have issues (and has lost multiple features)

Specifically the international part of the game, just to clarify. My point was that if you're going to take something out of the game to bring it back, it needs ro be much better to make up for the initial removal, in my opinion