FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[ajw10]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Specifically the international part of the game, just to clarify. My point was that if you're going to take something out of the game to bring it back, it needs ro be much better to make up for the initial removal, in my opinion 

yeah I've edited my post

[the_hdk]

13 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Specifically the international part of the game, just to clarify. My point was that if you're going to take something out of the game to bring it back, it needs ro be much better to make up for the initial removal, in my opinion 

fair point. and my argument was that the current way of communicating is really...weird....to say the least. why post it now? not later with complete reveal? why not show some neat things to offset it (atleast a bit)?  I was really disappointed personally with last two FM versions...and this might be first time i dont but the game since Cm01/02. and pre-order since fm09. 

[forameuss]

10 minutes ago, the_hdk said:

fair point. and my argument was that the current way of communicating is really...weird....to say the least. why post it now? not later with complete reveal? why not show some neat things to offset it (atleast a bit)?  I was really disappointed personally with last two FM versions...and this might be first time i dont but the game since Cm01/02. and pre-order since fm09. 

I think this is the big question mark for me, and the one thing I can point to and wonder just what they're thinking of.  Talk about what is being dropped in amongst all the stuff that will be getting improved and that's a better message overall.  As I read it, they haven't really given anything you could class as properly positive.  All there is is the negative, sloshing around in the big echo chamber, being screeched in more and more unhinged terms.  

Well, you all wanted transparency...

[(sic)]

When they announced FM25, I was already fine with FM24 underdelivering (which to me it hasn't, was much better than 23), because I gave them the benefit of the doubt, since FM25 was going to be a big revamp.

Now again, I know this is a big revamp, and a big task, so again, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here. I expect that those features that were removed from 25 will be added into 26, and that they will function a lot better than what we currently have.

I personally don't care about the removed stuff. If they want to revamp those features, might as well do it properly. If they feel they cannot do it within the time frame, sure postpone it until the next version.

 

What I don't get, is why the development update mostly focused on what was removed, about how it's not been a smooth ride, and how the game is getting delayed, instead of actually showing us something new they worked on, that will make it into the game? At least to offset the bad news, they could've shown us something we could get excited for.

[DP]

19 minutes ago, forameuss said:

I think this is the big question mark for me, and the one thing I can point to and wonder just what they're thinking of.  Talk about what is being dropped in amongst all the stuff that will be getting improved and that's a better message overall.  As I read it, they haven't really given anything you could class as properly positive.  All there is is the negative, sloshing around in the big echo chamber, being screeched in more and more unhinged terms.  

Well, you all wanted transparency...

Well quite. There’s doing transparency well and there’s doing transparency poorly 😅

It was odd to see the negative news in the first release - to do it again is strange. Just chuck in another few screenshots at least to soften the blow. 

Edited September 5 by DP

[themadsheep2001]

5 minutes ago, DP said:

Well quite. There’s doing transparency well and there’s doing transparency poorly 😅

It was odd to see the negative news in the first release - to do it again is strange. Just chuck in another few screenshots at least to soften the blow. 

And they'd get hammered for chucking in a few screenshots, which people would no doubt say look rough and ready - we know this because that's exactly what happened last time. The only win is a substantial post, but can't do that if you dont feel the stuff you want to sow off positively is quite there. Hence end of September 

[D3an0mac]

8 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The basic version of international management is pretty rubbish. And it still requires work to have it in FM25. So you do enough to have it at the back end for the game world, without spending time porting the front end, where the player interacts 

Why spend more resources on it when you can move resources to make it better next year? 

That's the choice they have made. 

The thing is with a few tweaks in the pregame editor you can actually enable/create things which make it a far more immersive experience or a more balanced/competitive game mode.

By making changes to the Foreign Manager Likelihood, FA Patience, Financial Power, making uncapped players of second nationality play for a different country you can make changes which reflect the type of hires or players who would turn out and then by adding in things like B team tournaments, setting up future tournament hosts, future real/planned stadiums etc you don't end up in 2066 playing World Cup games at the Gary Breen Community Stadium in Cork etc.

So by at least keeping it in its current state, those of us who do play it, or play it with Mods to make it a more fun/immersive/challenging mode, can still enjoy a part of the game that's always been there.

It also seems counter intuitive to me to remove it when introducing the Women's game into FM. Considering how much of a core element the Womens World Cup, Olympic Games etc. have been in the rise of the sport prior to women's leagues and Champions League etc. it doesn't make sense to take that away if you're looking for an immersive version of the women's game

[angelo994]

I just don’t see why they couldn’t have given us some positive news. How much is the game going to really change in 3 weeks?

[themadsheep2001]

30 minutes ago, angelo994 said:

I just don’t see why they couldn’t have given us some positive news. How much is the game going to really change in 3 weeks?

You'd be surprised how much it can change in a few weeks tbf

[CrowManager]

5 hours ago, DJ Sir Matthew said:

I just got FM24 for free  like a year ago I got FM23 for free. And 2 years ago with FM22. And actually I don't mind waiting close to a year to get the game for free. There are always DB updates available, all tips&tricks are readily available if needed, the game is in its 'finished' state, and it's new version for me anyways... of course, if everyone would start doing that...

Edit: And I'm actually currently really enjoying a FM23 save, so don't know if I'm even going to install/play FM24 (even with the save game compatibility).

For FM25 I hope for a FIFA-like match experience with a CM 01/02 feel of speed and a never before witnessed ME depth. If they can get that right, I just might buy it this year

FM23 is more fun than FM24 

I think FM24 got unfair hate at its launch but yeah FM23 is simply superior, more difficulty, more realistic.

[GIMN]

1 hour ago, forameuss said:

I think this is the big question mark for me, and the one thing I can point to and wonder just what they're thinking of.  Talk about what is being dropped in amongst all the stuff that will be getting improved and that's a better message overall.  As I read it, they haven't really given anything you could class as properly positive.  All there is is the negative, sloshing around in the big echo chamber, being screeched in more and more unhinged terms.  

Well, you all wanted transparency...

It doesn't matter how delicious the bread is in a s**t-sandwich, the dominant flavour is going to be faeces.  So why not save that bread for something it's flavour can be appreciated.

It's a risky strategy, for sure.

[Alekos]

FM24 advertised as the best version ever and the most polished one but at the end it failed to deliver because of new and existing from previous versions bugs..

Then they said that their development team have set their focus on FM25 that they were working on it for 2 years so that's why some bugs won't be fixed till then...

Now early September, not only we have see nothing from the new ME but they announce that the new features will be delayed until the end of September for a product they working on for 2 years!!!

Not only that but they give us info of what has been removed (shouts, international management, kilos, etc)or not working and they celebrate for premier league license and women football!?!

Guys are you serious?

For how long will you treat your loyal customers (since 1997) like that because you are a monopoly?

 

Edited September 5 by Alekos

[Mars_Blackmon]

37 minutes ago, Alekos said:

FM24 advertised as the best version ever and the most polished one but at the end it failed to deliver because of new and existing from previous versions bugs..

Then they said that their development team have set their focus on FM25 that they were working on it for 2 years so that's why some bugs won't be fixed till then...

Now early September, not only we have see nothing from the new ME but they announce that the new features will be delayed until the end of September for a product they working on for 2 years!!!

Not only that but they give us info of what has been removed (shouts, international management, kilos, etc)or not working and they celebrate for premier league license and women football!?!

Guys are you serious?

For how long will you treat your loyal customers (since 1997) like that because you are a monopoly?

 

Been away since about January. School have been keeping me busy but looks like I haven't missed anything. Wow...

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, D3an0mac said:

The thing is with a few tweaks in the pregame editor you can actually enable/create things which make it a far more immersive experience or a more balanced/competitive game mode.

By making changes to the Foreign Manager Likelihood, FA Patience, Financial Power, making uncapped players of second nationality play for a different country you can make changes which reflect the type of hires or players who would turn out and then by adding in things like B team tournaments, setting up future tournament hosts, future real/planned stadiums etc you don't end up in 2066 playing World Cup games at the Gary Breen Community Stadium in Cork etc.

So by at least keeping it in its current state, those of us who do play it, or play it with Mods to make it a more fun/immersive/challenging mode, can still enjoy a part of the game that's always been there.

It also seems counter intuitive to me to remove it when introducing the Women's game into FM. Considering how much of a core element the Womens World Cup, Olympic Games etc. have been in the rise of the sport prior to women's leagues and Champions League etc. it doesn't make sense to take that away if you're looking for an immersive version of the women's game

I have to say that I was more looking forward to playing women's international football than the actual leagues. At least here in the US, international women's football is way more popular than the league we have here...

 

Transparency is great but underpromising and over delivering is the opposite of this news.

Edited September 5 by Mars_Blackmon

[whatsupdoc]

1 hour ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

I have to say that I was more looking forward to playing women's international football than the actual leagues. At least here in the US, international women's football is way more popular than the league we have here

Yeah me too, same situation. 

[kiwityke1983]

4 hours ago, forameuss said:

I think this is the big question mark for me, and the one thing I can point to and wonder just what they're thinking of.  Talk about what is being dropped in amongst all the stuff that will be getting improved and that's a better message overall.  As I read it, they haven't really given anything you could class as properly positive.  All there is is the negative, sloshing around in the big echo chamber, being screeched in more and more unhinged terms.  

Well, you all wanted transparency...

The positives so far are:

- Women's football

- Premier League Licence 

The problem with those two as positives are:

Women's football is essentially a fairly niche league pack addition, that most people see as a nice to have but don't particularly care about addition.

That if you were really determined you could add to the game anyway. 

 

The Premier League licence is something a lot of players just added via mods. So again something that is nice to have but isn't a deal breaker for most either way much like women's football.

Had they announced that some features were being removed in one update and then the delay in another but hey here's some first look screenshots the mood everywhere would be way more positive.

[kiwityke1983]

4 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

And they'd get hammered for chucking in a few screenshots, which people would no doubt say look rough and ready - we know this because that's exactly what happened last time. The only win is a substantial post, but can't do that if you dont feel the stuff you want to sow off positively is quite there. Hence end of September 

But what they showed were design drafts, they aren't meant to look polished.

Merely representative of what you are aiming for.

It was another mistake IMO in communication because a lot of people just decided they looked awful as that was what the finished game would look like.

Surely something in the game is finished to a level you can show a screenshot at this stage...I can't imagine 2-3 weeks will make a huge difference on that front.

Like I said previously the two announcements have made me personally go from hyped for a new era to very worried about what state the game is in if they can't show even a single screenshot, features are still being finalised/removed and Miles is cancelling holidays.

[themadsheep2001]

8 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

The positives so far are:

- Women's football

- Premier League Licence 

The problem with those two as positives are:

Women's football is essentially a fairly niche league pack addition, that most people see as a nice to have but don't particularly care about addition.

That if you were really determined you could add to the game anyway. 

 

The Premier League licence is something a lot of players just added via mods. So again something that is nice to have but isn't a deal breaker for most either way much like women's football.

Had they announced that some features were being removed in one update and then the delay in another but hey here's some first look screenshots the mood everywhere would be way more positive.

Whatever they reveal in late September, needs to be in depth, a fairly big feature (or a look at the ME) and it needs to look good. They have been honest, but it does feel a bit "0-2" in the positive stakes, need to get a goal back

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, kiwityke1983 said:

But what they showed were design drafts, they aren't meant to look polished.

Merely representative of what you are aiming for.

It was another mistake IMO in communication because a lot of people just decided they looked awful as that was what the finished game would look like.

Surely something in the game is finished to a level you can show a screenshot at this stage...I can't imagine 2-3 weeks will make a huge difference on that front.

Like I said previously the two announcements have made me personally go from hyped for a new era to very worried about what state the game is in if they can't show even a single screenshot, features are still being finalised/removed and Miles is cancelling holidays.

Then id argue they simply cant win when it comes to showing stuff off that early, because it will always be design drafts at that stage. If they are going to get hammered then, no matter what, might as well pull it going forwards and show more fleshed out stuff much later. This is where i think the community does need to have a bit more perspective, at the very early stages (not talking about now-end of September onwards) there's no point asking for really early stuff if you're gonna hammer it for being rough when thats exactly what it will be at in that stage. 

[kiwityke1983]

55 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Then id argue they simply cant win when it comes to showing stuff off that early, because it will always be design drafts at that stage. If they are going to get hammered then, no matter what, might as well pull it going forwards and show more fleshed out stuff much later. This is where i think the community does need to have a bit more perspective, at the very early stages (not talking about now-end of September onwards) there's no point asking for really early stuff if you're gonna hammer it for being rough when thats exactly what it will be at in that stage. 

That was only at the end of June!

Is that really the very early stages?

I'm not involved in game development but have seen enough games get developed end released over my 40+ years from afar to think that being less than 5 months from an expected release and 6 weeks from the usual hype cycle starting (and release of new features) and 3.5 months from the usual BETA drop.

I wouldn't think it would be so early they wouldn't have a single screenshot they could show off from in game at that stage.

Last year when they first announced FM25 is when I'd have expected design docs to be used not this close to release.

I dunno if that's an unrealistic expectation or not I can only go off experience of other games releases who either use in game screenshots (labelling them as Work in Progress) or really nice concept art, that usually looks even nicer than what we end up with in the game.

I'm waiting for the reveal at the end of September and getting my hands on the game before I make any final judgements of course, but what we've been shown and crucially not shown and told so far has me worried.

I genuinely know more about Miles and his holiday plans he's cancelled than the game.

(It's interesting people have mentioned Paradox in this thread because at this stage of pre-release they'd not only have screenshots but numerous developer blogs going into features and maybe even a bunch of bug filed developer play through streams)

Edited September 6 by kiwityke1983

[whatsupdoc]

1 hour ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I genuinely know more about Miles and his holiday plans he's cancelled than the game.

This gave me a chuckle 

[ForTheLoveOfTheGame]

I’ve seen a few comments about the editor being removed, and I know it’s just forum speculation, but surely that will never happen? SI, please confirm!? 

and lastly on the International manager debate - once things are removed from the game there is a chance we never see them come back. I know they have said they want to bring it back in 2026, but once you start using % figures to justifying removing things, then it comes across more sinister than what they have outlined.

[DP]

8 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

And they'd get hammered for chucking in a few screenshots, which people would no doubt say look rough and ready - we know this because that's exactly what happened last time. The only win is a substantial post, but can't do that if you dont feel the stuff you want to sow off positively is quite there. Hence end of September 

Isn’t the game releasing in 2 months? There absolutely has to be stable elements of the game right now otherwise that date is at risk. With a game as complex as this you’d expect it to be in testing at this point. 

[Fat_Frank8]

4 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Then id argue they simply cant win when it comes to showing stuff off that early, because it will always be design drafts at that stage. 

That’s nonsense. Of course they’ve got the game in an alpha (or hopefully beta) version state after years of development a few months before release. You think they push everything they’ve been working on for years together a couple of weeks before release and hope everything works? 

[RorysRocketThrow]

I work in Software development myself and this type of twist is actually not uncommon when you are developing either a totally different platform or brand new product.  In this case I think FM25 probably comes under the former category - brand new platform.

There will always be lots of twists and turns, especially in an agile environment.  Decisions made on an almost hourly basis that can change the course and direction of the product.

The studio director cancelling his trips to be 'back at base' sounds drastic and as if the proverbial is hitting the fan but that might not be the case.  It might be a simple case of a few deadlines being missed and it might well be a proactive move to ensure it doesn't.  It's bad for Miles of course but it might end up being very good for the product.  SI have some very experienced people at the top that will know the warning signs of a project starting to get squeezed.

It's frustrating for the end user that some smaller features are being cut for this version but again, that is par for the course when new platforms are developed as frustrating as it is.  Trust me when I say this, the frustration on the inside will be ten times more than the end user.  All software companies are disappointed when features have to be cut, it is always done with a heavy heart but also with one eye on the quality of the product.

All I'm saying is don't write things off just yet and let's not jump to conclusions.  I've been involved in some very tough projects in my career that have had many more features cut than this and it has been a success.  I've also been involved in projects that have seemed easier, more feature packed and been a disaster.

Keep the faith!

 

 

[DJ Sir Matthew]

4 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

The positives so far are:

- Women's football

- Premier League Licence 

The problem with those two as positives are:

Women's football is essentially a fairly niche league pack addition, that most people see as a nice to have but don't particularly care about addition.

That if you were really determined you could add to the game anyway. 

 

The Premier League licence is something a lot of players just added via mods. So again something that is nice to have but isn't a deal breaker for most either way much like women's football.

Had they announced that some features were being removed in one update and then the delay in another but hey here's some first look screenshots the mood everywhere would be way more positive.

Unless the new engine and approach doesn't allow for modding?

[whatsupdoc]

15 hours ago, kevhamster said:

Irrelevant really when FM25 is being rebuilt from the ground up. 

I doubt very much that they'll rebuild the ME from the ground up.

I'd love it if they did but... yeah... nah

[kiwityke1983]

30 minutes ago, DJ Sir Matthew said:

Unless the new engine and approach doesn't allow for modding?

The meltdown from that would make Chernobyl look like a kids picnic party and would be something that I'd imagine would impact sales of FM25 very negatively... virtually everyone mods FM in some way shape or form.

[Tonton_Zola]

Hate to break it to you guys, but those UI shots that you’re hoping are just ‘idea mock ups’ and will change beyond recognition before release…?

they most likely a pretty damned close reflection of what’s coming.

let’s not kid ourselves. 

 

[whatsupdoc]

1 minute ago, kiwityke1983 said:

The meltdown from that would make Chernobyl look like a kids picnic party and would be something that I'd imagine would impact sales of FM25 very negatively... virtually everyone mods FM in some way shape or form.

I think (guessing) FM would have have one of the highest player retention percentages of any game. The vast majority of people who claim to boycott it will eventually buy it discounted or skip one year then be back. The only thing that would impact FMs sales significantly IMO is a rival game.

[janrzm]

Just trying to take a more measured view on all this tbh.

There’s obviously a lot of “expectation management” going on which I accept, you could be a little cynical about. Personally, being upfront and communicating better is something lots of us have pushed for over the years so it’d feel somewhat hypocritical to take the stance now that I only want to hear good news. I’m pushing myself to be patient and understanding and resisting the urge to get too emotional about this stuff because ultimately I’d rather SI deliver “less” well, than everything  chaotically.

Should they have taken one more cycle of the existing game to get all their ducks in a row, only time will tell. I, like many of us have invested a lot of my spare time into this game and again like many have been honest and upfront about wanting to see it be the best possible version of itself. If I have to take a little bit of pain now to see that objective reached then I’m prepared for that. 

I would genuinely like to see a release in the near future though that truly exceeds my expectations, 

 

 

 

Edited September 6 by janrzm

[armbi]

2 hours ago, ForTheLoveOfTheGame said:

and lastly on the International manager debate - once things are removed from the game there is a chance we never see them come back.

This iż actually a smart move - SI by the way they introduce new match engine (which is big change) removes International management, which will return maybe in 2026 or 2027, but fans will be grateful it is back at all 😉

[whatsupdoc]

New feature for FM26: international football!!

[Tonton_Zola]

Wider thoughts:

to me, the conversation above, and indeed the update from Miles, expresses the big problem the game has right now:

 

lots of talk of UIs, UXes, data, 360 degree views of every stat you could possibly need…

…and very little talk of immersion, narrative, joy, emotion, the game itself!

The priorities for me:

how does the game ‘feel’ when your team scores a goal? Let me tell you, on old text based champs it felt GREAT. A flashing light in club colours - Bobic ‘83. What is today’s equivalent?

how much of an individual does your new 17 year old wonderkid feel when he gets the ball? 

how does my sense of achievement and status grow with my club’s success? What is the reward for all that effort, all those clicks, all those hard yards in the training ground?

 

[ForTheLoveOfTheGame]

14 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

The meltdown from that would make Chernobyl look like a kids picnic party and would be something that I'd imagine would impact sales of FM25 very negatively... virtually everyone mods FM in some way shape or form.

Yep. I would never buy the game if mods/editing were not available. 

[ForTheLoveOfTheGame]

9 minutes ago, Tonton_Zola said:

Wider thoughts:

to me, the conversation above, and indeed the update from Miles, expresses the big problem the game has right now:

 

lots of talk of UIs, UXes, data, 360 degree views of every stat you could possibly need…

…and very little talk of immersion, narrative, joy, emotion, the game itself!

The priorities for me:

how does the game ‘feel’ when your team scores a goal? Let me tell you, on old text based champs it felt GREAT. A flashing light in club colours - Bobic ‘83. What is today’s equivalent?

how much of an individual does your new 17 year old wonderkid feel when he gets the ball? 

how does my sense of achievement and status grow with my club’s success? What is the reward for all that effort, all those clicks, all those hard yards in the training ground?

 

I agree. Even from the screenshots they released for the development update in June, the UI and match day screens have no personality. No club colours. A tiny Premier League logo in the corner. 

Even this screenshot from 2013 has more life to the game than what they showed us in that update….and it’s been over 10 years since.

Edited September 6 by ForTheLoveOfTheGame

[whatsupdoc]

I hope the UI still allows us to get a lot of info on single screens.

Most of my screens look like this.

 

If it's more clicks and less info, more casual focused and not modable personally I'd be disappointed.

[-Jef-]

19 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

New feature for FM26: international football!!

You kid but this is a very big possibility.

[Tonton_Zola]

13 minutes ago, ForTheLoveOfTheGame said:

I agree. Even from the screenshots they released for the development update in June, the UI and match day screens have no personality. No club colours. A tiny Premier League logo in the corner. 

Even this screenshot from 2013 has more life to the game than what they showed us in that update….and it’s been over 10 years since.

Spot on.

”personality” is a sharper way to put it 

I keep being served old images of champ 97 etc, and - for all that it’s probably rudimentary under the hood - the top level visualisation of the moment (Tottenham 0 Arsenal 1 Wright ‘54 with club colours and background pic) remains untouched.

 

i know licensing is a tough area, but - really - the first thing I would do is licence stadium / image rights from the top clubs and place a rotating pack of 10 for the background experience of playing each. Failing this, commission a photographer to take licence-free photos of club atmospherics for the background.

 

i just worry that - amidst all the technocracy - SI / Miles are totally missing the emotional detail that makes THE REAL DIFFERENCE.

 

 

[forameuss]

6 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

The positives so far are:

- Women's football

- Premier League Licence 

The problem with those two as positives are:

Women's football is essentially a fairly niche league pack addition, that most people see as a nice to have but don't particularly care about addition.

That if you were really determined you could add to the game anyway. 

 

The Premier League licence is something a lot of players just added via mods. So again something that is nice to have but isn't a deal breaker for most either way much like women's football.

Had they announced that some features were being removed in one update and then the delay in another but hey here's some first look screenshots the mood everywhere would be way more positive.

Women's football was announced a long, long time ago, it doesn't really come under these two specific updates, which have been almost entirely negative.  Premier League licence you could perhaps argue, but again, that was delivered separately too.

21 minutes ago, -Jef- said:

You kid but this is a very big possibility.

Almost like that's exactly what they've said will happen.  They're not silently shuffling away things to use them as marketing tools later, they've been very open and said that it's being dropped now and will return in 26 when it's in a state they're happy with.  

  

40 minutes ago, Tonton_Zola said:

lots of talk of UIs, UXes, data, 360 degree views of every stat you could possibly need…

…and very little talk of immersion, narrative, joy, emotion, the game itself!

To be "fair" though, this has been a weak point for the game in perpetuity.  Using it as a stick to beat 25 with particularly misses that you could have made the same argument going back years.  It's an incredibly sterile environment and relies on the player to "fill in the blanks" so to speak, to breathe life into the save.  

Edited September 6 by forameuss

[Novem9]

2 часа назад, ForTheLoveOfTheGame сказал:

I’ve seen a few comments about the editor being removed, and I know it’s just forum speculation, but surely that will never happen? SI, please confirm!? 

Was there ever a precedent where this worked? They just can't reveal anything without consequences, can they?

The problem is that many forget, or do not understand due to age, that developers are bound by a contract, and may not share such a policy. Negativity is directed at the wrong people, because those who come to the forum, and especially answer, deserve special respect.

[Novem9]

25 минут назад, whatsupdoc сказал:

I hope the UI still allows us to get a lot of info on single screens.

Most of my screens look like this.

 

If it's more clicks and less info, more casual focused and not modable personally I'd be disappointed.

The same for me. As analyst, I'm enjoying a massive data. All I wanted was more interface stability (you know how the damn columns shift in chaos), and the ability to customize modules and their size to my needs. But the alpha looked like a generic interface for all platforms at once, although this is the maximum touch version for smartphones and switch

[kiwityke1983]

6 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Women's football was announced a long, long time ago, it doesn't really come under these two specific updates, which have been almost entirely negative.  Premier League licence you could perhaps argue, but again, that was delivered separately too.

I was just saying the positives they have announced at some stage not specific to the two development updates, which as you say were wholly negative.

[scythian12]

31 minutes ago, Tonton_Zola said:

Spot on.

”personality” is a sharper way to put it 

I keep being served old images of champ 97 etc, and - for all that it’s probably rudimentary under the hood - the top level visualisation of the moment (Tottenham 0 Arsenal 1 Wright ‘54 with club colours and background pic) remains untouched.

 

i know licensing is a tough area, but - really - the first thing I would do is licence stadium / image rights from the top clubs and place a rotating pack of 10 for the background experience of playing each. Failing this, commission a photographer to take licence-free photos of club atmospherics for the background.

 

i just worry that - amidst all the technocracy - SI / Miles are totally missing the emotional detail that makes THE REAL DIFFERENCE.

 

 

SI have never cared about cosmetics / immersion, and this bugs me greatly. I guess a bit of it is down to licencing, but a lot of seems to be just not caring. There are some issues which would need a bit more attention and some which would be a relatively easy fix. Yet, instead now you get to wear an eyepatch!

/Start of rant/

Some of the decisions in this regard are also on the verge of sensibility: why prioritize a manager being able to put on a ring on every single finger which you never ever see after the character selection screen, yet have spectators at the matchday wear 6 uniform outfits in the entire crowd, something which you look at about 30-50 % of your time in the game?

Why the devolution of player faces compared to '18 (they had maybe less detail but were not in the middle of uncanny valley). Why does the community need to plug the gaps with facepacks like Z's. You can't licence the face of a non-existing person.

The stadium models used to be better and more varied, there was a dowgrade there as well. (For instance no more athletic track), the less said about stadium environs, the better.

Stadiums in lower leagues with 4 full stands generated where their capacity is 500-1000. All of them chock full of people on matchday.

Scraping club colours out of the UI due to legibility / ui issues instead of looking into how to integrate them in a legible way - or have a bit of logic in selecting colours that does not allow low-contrast combinations. (Example: instead of using yellow for Barcelona text, using a slightly darker blue and a slightly brighter red)

Kit / shorts / socks designs never reviewed as there are options in there which get picked 0.15 % of all kits (why are they still in and not international football?)

Kit colour clash detection is comically bad, and it would not be a difficult thing to fix. (I recently played in red vs Villareal in yellow. Game deemed my green GK clashing for some unfathomable reason and generated an orange one...)

/end of rant/

Edited September 6 by scythian12

[Tonton_Zola]

9 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

The same for me. As analyst, I'm enjoying a massive data. All I wanted was more interface stability (you know how the damn columns shift in chaos), and the ability to customize modules and their size to my needs. But the alpha looked like a generic interface for all platforms at once, although this is the maximum touch version for smartphones and switch

Respectfully, as an analyst you bring your own biases. I would worry that this is a particularly unrepresentative view.

[Tonton_Zola]

7 minutes ago, scythian12 said:

SI have never cared about cosmetics / immersion, and this bugs me greatly. I guess a bit of it is down to licencing, but a lot of seems to be just not caring. There are some issues which would need a bit more attention and some which would be a relatively easy fix. Yet, instead now you get to wear an eyepatch!

/Start of rant/

Some of the decisions in this regard are also on the verge of sensibility: why prioritize a manager being able to put on a ring on every single finger which you never ever see after the character selection screen, yet have spectators at the matchday wear 6 uniform outfits in the entire crowd, something which you look at about 30-50 % of your time in the game?

Why the devolution of player faces compared to '18 (they had maybe less detail but were not in the middle of uncanny valley). Why does the community need to plug the gaps with facepacks like Z's. You can't licence the face of a non-exisiting person.

The stadium models used to be better and more varied, there was a dowgrade there as well. (For instance no more athletic track), the less said about stadium environs, the better.

Stadiums in lower leagues with 4 full stands generated where their capacity is 500-1000. All of them chock full of people on matchday.

Scraping club colours out of the UI due to legibility / ui issues instead of looking into how to integrate them in a legible way - or have a bit of logic in selecting colours that does not allow low-contrast combinations. (Example: instead of using yellow for Barcelona text, using a slightly darker blue and a slightly brighter red)

Kit / shorts / socks designs never reviewed as there are options in there which get picked 0.15 % of all kits (why are they still in and not international football?)

Kit colour clash detection is comically bad, and it would not be a difficult thing to fix. (I recently played in red vs Villareal in yellow. Game deemed my green GK clashing for some unfathomable reason and generated an orange one...)

/end of rant/

Well said.

some of this is mind blowing cognitive dissonance.

 

 

[Cultured Left Foot]

9 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

I have to say that I was more looking forward to playing women's international football than the actual leagues. At least here in the US, international women's football is way more popular than the league we have here...

 

This is the thing I think SI/Miles have underestimated - a lot of people (or the majority that were looking to try Women's football out in game) were likely to start in International Management because its so much easier to settle in with as a starter for ten and its easier to know and understand the tournament formats and the players etc.  Given that the England Ladies team is good and I know a number of the players from watching the tournaments it was something I was very interested in trying out in FM25 to undertake a start into Women's football in FM. 

 

To compelte remove International Football is a stranger and stranger decision the more I think about it. 

[Novem9]

17 минут назад, Tonton_Zola сказал:

Respectfully, as an analyst you bring your own biases. I would worry that this is a particularly unrepresentative view.

I think there is a misunderstanding here. I didn't say that the interface should be exactly like this. I hoped that SI would make the interface as customizable as possible, so that everyone would be able to make something of their own without third-party skins

[forameuss]

28 minutes ago, scythian12 said:

SI have never cared about cosmetics / immersion, and this bugs me greatly. I guess a bit of it is down to licencing, but a lot of seems to be just not caring. There are some issues which would need a bit more attention and some which would be a relatively easy fix. Yet, instead now you get to wear an eyepatch!

/Start of rant/

Some of the decisions in this regard are also on the verge of sensibility: why prioritize a manager being able to put on a ring on every single finger which you never ever see after the character selection screen, yet have spectators at the matchday wear 6 uniform outfits in the entire crowd, something which you look at about 30-50 % of your time in the game?

Why the devolution of player faces compared to '18 (they had maybe less detail but were not in the middle of uncanny valley). Why does the community need to plug the gaps with facepacks like Z's. You can't licence the face of a non-existing person.

The stadium models used to be better and more varied, there was a dowgrade there as well. (For instance no more athletic track), the less said about stadium environs, the better.

Stadiums in lower leagues with 4 full stands generated where their capacity is 500-1000. All of them chock full of people on matchday.

Scraping club colours out of the UI due to legibility / ui issues instead of looking into how to integrate them in a legible way - or have a bit of logic in selecting colours that does not allow low-contrast combinations. (Example: instead of using yellow for Barcelona text, using a slightly darker blue and a slightly brighter red)

Kit / shorts / socks designs never reviewed as there are options in there which get picked 0.15 % of all kits (why are they still in and not international football?)

Kit colour clash detection is comically bad, and it would not be a difficult thing to fix. (I recently played in red vs Villareal in yellow. Game deemed my green GK clashing for some unfathomable reason and generated an orange one...)

/end of rant/

While I agree with the overall point, I don't really agree with the detail.  Personally, none of the things you mention really bother me.  And emphasis on "personally", because it's all subjective, and I'm well aware it bothers others.  But if you fix every one of those points above, you're just putting cosmetic things over a game that remains incredibly sterile.  The gameworld would still seem lifeless if all fans wore a different shirt.  As a line, I've always said that the game suffers from a startling lack of context.  Things just...happen.  Completely in isolation, sometimes with a single news item that it's very easy to gloss over given how template they all are.  And once they do happen, that's pretty much it, there's often no real knock-on effects on future events, and any time there is, it's half-baked.  

  

9 minutes ago, Cultured Left Foot said:

This is the thing I think SI/Miles have underestimated - a lot of people (or the majority that were looking to try Women's football out in game) were likely to start in International Management because its so much easier to settle in with as a starter for ten and its easier to know and understand the tournament formats and the players etc.  Given that the England Ladies team is good and I know a number of the players from watching the tournaments it was something I was very interested in trying out in FM25 to undertake a start into Women's football in FM. 

To compelte remove International Football is a stranger and stranger decision the more I think about it. 

While I don't agree with the decision in isolation, people are acting like they've cast it off purely because relatively few people play it.  It was clear from the language they used that they came to a point where international management was a mess.  At that point, they've got basically two choices - sink a lot of time into the module to get it to the level they want, or abandon it.  That's not a snap decision, so you weigh up the pros and cons.  Is it worth potentially delaying the game further just to get the function in when that function isn't really used by the seemingly vast majority of the player-base?  Probably not, so they made the decision, and clearly fully intend for it to return.  

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.  Had they decided to forge ahead and be adamant that international management remained in, but the game was delayed until 2025, they'd have had far more fallout.  It's a rubbish decision to have to make, but it is the right decision.

Edited September 6 by forameuss

[whatsupdoc]

18 minutes ago, Cultured Left Foot said:

This is the thing I think SI/Miles have underestimated - a lot of people (or the majority that were looking to try Women's football out in game) were likely to start in International Management because its so much easier to settle in with as a starter for ten and its easier to know and understand the tournament formats and the players etc.  Given that the England Ladies team is good and I know a number of the players from watching the tournaments it was something I was very interested in trying out in FM25 to undertake a start into Women's football in FM. 

 

To compelte remove International Football is a stranger and stranger decision the more I think about it. 

Several countries women's national teams (Australia definitely, maybe the USA?) are more popular based on viewer numbers than their men's teams. It's a shame international football won't be in.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 6 by whatsupdoc