FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[MrManagerMan]

4 hours ago, Federico said:

No offence, there are newcomers in this forum and they can't possibily know what has been said across the years and what not.

Periodically and sistematically since basically from 5 to 10 years one jumps here and shows how better FM17 looked like compared to now and how facegens were better in FM08 than what they are now. Pasting - anedoctically - the same old pictures of stadiums/faces compared to what we have now.

Just to make it clear: alright guys, the past was sweeter, the fields were greener, the light was brighter, with friends surrounded, the water flowing, the endless river, forever and ever (music contest here) and so on. We got it.

Pink Floyd High Hopes. What do I win? 

[Daniel Evensen]

On 03/10/2024 at 06:35, decapitated said:

I found this video quite interesting and better FM25 content than anything the usual influencers are doing.

 

 

Yeah, I watched that the other day.

We can hope.  Seriously, if FM's new graphics engine is anything like this, I might never stop playing.

[decapitated]

SI had a party/event this week.

 

Hopefully, this means the next roadmap unlocking will be near the start of the week rather than the end. 

[Federico]

5 ore fa, MrManagerMan ha scritto:

Pink Floyd High Hopes. What do I win? 

I'm gonna send you the entire song sung by myself!

Edited yesterday at 20:35 by Federico
Sang or sung?

[filip_croatia]

2 hours ago, Robbles Quin ®™ said:

That's quite modern, should be fine especially with the NVMe SSD, not familiar with the 2050 though. 4GBs of VRAM might be on the low side. if theres a 6GB model i would go for it instead if the AIM is the graphical side. otherwise you are 100% fine. 

 

I can't afford to break the budget, but I don't need to play games in ME on maximum details. For me it's more important that simming speed is good.

[XaW]

Just now, filip_croatia said:

I can't afford to break the budget, but I don't need to play games in ME on maximum details. For me it's more important that simming speed is good.

Please post in here: 

 

[Robbles Quin ®™]

16 minutes ago, filip_croatia said:

I can't afford to break the budget, but I don't need to play games in ME on maximum details. For me it's more important that simming speed is good.

then with that SSD you'll have a fast speed.

[thomas_e]

1 hour ago, Daniel Evensen said:

Yeah, I watched that the other day.

We can hope.  Seriously, if FM's new graphics engine is anything like this, I might never stop playing.

Same. But it wont be. If it was anything even remotely close to this they would have shown it while opening for pre-purchasing 

[latrell]

My thoughts on women's football coming to FM 25 i love it i have two daughters 3 and 5 and i would be so proud one day to see them in football manager it would be great they both love playing football so just maybe it could happen. 

[ForTheLoveOfTheGame]

2 hours ago, decapitated said:

SI had a party/event this week.

 

Hopefully, this means the next roadmap unlocking will be near the start of the week rather than the end. 

Quite possible we don’t actually see anything substantial regarding women’s football in FM25 when they drop the news next week.

Plenty of motivational montages about how important it is that the women’s game is now being reflected via gaming platforms these days etc. Behind the scene motion captures etc

Was probably all that event was made up of too…hopefully I’m wrong.

[rdbayly]

3 hours ago, decapitated said:

SI had a party/event this week.

 

Hopefully, this means the next roadmap unlocking will be near the start of the week rather than the end. 

I am now certain that the women's football featurette will consist of nothing more than interviews and sound bites, probably from this event.

This announcement should have been shown off in full, in-game. It was a prime candidate to show us in a studio-led stream. It was great when different members of the studio dropped in to explain their role in the game's development, and what had been added to enrich its world. The whole approach stinks.

Edited yesterday at 19:52 by rdbayly

[Lord Rowell]

1 hour ago, latrell said:

My thoughts on women's football coming to FM 25 i love it i have two daughters 3 and 5 and i would be so proud one day to see them in football manager it would be great they both love playing football so just maybe it could happen. 

That's really lovely to hear and I very much hope this might happen for them.

[DavutOzkan]

4 hours ago, decapitated said:

SI had a party/event this week.

 

Hopefully, this means the next roadmap unlocking will be near the start of the week rather than the end. 

Miles definitely dressed up for the occasion... 

[fc.cadoni]

2 hours ago, rdbayly said:

I am now certain that the women's football featurette will consist of nothing more than interviews and sound bites, probably from this event.

This announcement should have been shown off in full, in-game. It was a prime candidate to show us in a studio-led stream. It was great when different members of the studio dropped in to explain their role in the game's development, and what had been added to enrich its world. The whole approach stinks.

From the same event as well.

Bacground pictures indicate that motion capture and players movement will be different.

Let's see. 7th of October, in two days.

[MrManagerMan]

5 hours ago, Federico said:

I'm gonna send you the entire song sung by myself!

Sung is correct! 👍👍👍

Sorry mods I realise this is not a music forum and totally off topic but David Gilmours slide solo for the outro is gold. 

[kiwityke1983]

2 hours ago, fc.cadoni said:

From the same event as well.

Bacground pictures indicate that motion capture and players movement will be different.

Let's see. 7th of October, in two days.

And that the YT videos about volumetric animations are probably sadly inaccurate.

I can't see them having two entirely different ways of animating mens and women's football.

[DP]

5 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

And that the YT videos about volumetric animations are probably sadly inaccurate.

I can't see them having two entirely different ways of animating mens and women's football.

Of course they could. Volumetric animations rely on lots of cameras around the stadium. Stadiums that the women’s league do not play in. 

Edited 15 hours ago by DP

[kiwityke1983]

27 minutes ago, DP said:

Of course they could. Volumetric animations rely on lots of cameras around the stadium. Stadiums that the women’s league do not play in. 

Yeah exactly so how are they going to use it in the men's game and not the women's?

I can't see them having an entirely different animation system for men and women.

Different mo-cap and animations for sure but what the videos outlined I doubt it.

[DP]

41 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Yeah exactly so how are they going to use it in the men's game and not the women's?

I can't see them having an entirely different animation system for men and women.

Different mo-cap and animations for sure but what the videos outlined I doubt it.

Nothing would surprise me at this point but if the tech is there for the mens they could be using it on that first and doing something different for women - as per above. Would be a shame to hold back aspects of the part of the game most play. 

But yeah, all speculation at this point. 

[Delicate Dave]

Carme down, you'll' order then game, you'll play the game, you'll find problems, some of you will report problems, they'll fix the problems and then by the time the price has fallen to £20 people like me will buy the game and everyone will be happy they bought the game.

Here endif the sermon. 

[nico_france]

Really looking forward to have, hopefully, announcements for AI team building

This was for me, not even in FM24, the biggest problem, especially if you play more than 5 seasons

Human player can take advantage of the weak AI too easily to build a legacy with tons of wonderkids/top players

And more over, fix the inflation of prices which is becoming ridiculous on the transfer market after a few seasons , and not only for top players 

When you reach the point where average players worth 100M+ it’s completely game breaker for me, for example I can remember a game when Mainoo from Man U was sold more than 250M€, which is ridiculous from my pov

 

Edited 10 hours ago by nico_france

[ohnonottheshouts]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycollins/2024/10/05/football-manager-25-how-they-made-it-a-womens-game-too/

Quote

There are more than 7,000 motion capture animations in the new game, and all of those had to be done separately for male and female footballers.

 

Quote

However, for those who really can’t bear the thought of engaging with the women’s game, there will be an option to toggle off women’s football, in exactly the same way as there will be an option to block off the men’s game.

Should clear up some commonly asked questions.

[decapitated]

31 minutes ago, ohnonottheshouts said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycollins/2024/10/05/football-manager-25-how-they-made-it-a-womens-game-too/

 

Should clear up some commonly asked questions.

Since it's behind a paywall, I thought I'd post the entire article here. 

 

Quote

Football Manager is one of the most successful franchises in gaming history, racking up 14.5 million players worldwide for the current version. But there’s one awkward statistic: 99% of them are male.

One reason for that is because – until now – the game has been almost exclusively male. Yes, there are female staff members and even female managers such as U.S.A. head coach Emma Hayes in the game, but they can only take jobs at men’s clubs. Women’s soccer has been excluded from the game since its first incarnation in 1992, but that’s about to change.

A multi-million dollar investment by developer Sports Interactive means that the forthcoming Football Manager 25 will include women’s teams for the first time. More than 4,000 of them, in fact.

Here’s the story of how Football Manager became a women’s game too.

Miles Jacobson, studio director of Sports Interactive, the company behind the Football Manager series, admits it’s taken too long to get women into the game.

Speaking at an event at the company’s East London headquarters this week, he said he’d long argued that it “had to be commercially viable” before the company could consider the massive investment it would take to add women’s football to the game. “I was wrong,” he admitted.

Two separate conversations changed his mind: the first with his niece, who pointedly asked why there was no women’s football in the game he’s worked on for more than 30 years; the second with players from England’s highly successful Lionesses team, who told Jacobson that women’s football would never become commercially viable “unless people like you do something about it.”

His mind changed, he then had to have the money conversation with publisher Sega, telling them he was “going to be spending X millions of pounds on it,” the X being a number he’s not willing to disclose publicly.

So why is it so expensive to add women to the game?

The Long Road To Women’s Football

Jacobson first announced he wanted to bring women’s soccer to Football Manager in 2021, although even then he admitted “we’ve been working on women’s football in the background for some time now.”

Adding women's football to a simulation as complex as Football Manager isn’t as simple as adding team and player names and twiddling with the graphics. There’s an enormous amount of work to do to ensure the game is as realistic as possible.

For starters, there’s the player database. Every player in the game has more than 300 data fields associated with them, covering everything from their physical metrics (height, acceleration, ability with each foot) to technical skills (dribbling, finishing, passing), to mental abilities (bravery, flair, “dirtiness”) and many more.

These attributes aren’t just generated at random. Over the years, Sports Interactive has built up a team of hundreds of scouts in countries all over the world to watch real-life football matches and report back on players’ abilities. Before the emergence of data-gathering firms in football, Football Manager’s database was actually used by professional football managers to research potential signings.

Yet, while there are now dozens of companies offering rich data on male footballers, that’s not the case for the women’s game. That meant, three years ago, Sports Interactive had to start building a women’s database from scratch.

“Data in women’s football is pretty pants,” said Tina Kerch, head of women’s football research at Sports Interactive, “pants” being an English colloquialism for not very good. Even in the places she could find data, “I was pretty skeptical” of its accuracy, Kerch added.

So, like the men’s version of the game, Kerch had to recruit a team of scouts to watch women’s football all over the world and gradually build a database. From a standing start in 2001, the database now holds the records of players from 4,016 women’s clubs playing in 524 competitions, with records on 3,617 non-playing members of staff. The company won’t (yet) reveal how many women’s players are in its database, but it’s safe to assume it’s in the tens, if not hundreds, of thousands.

Motion Capturing Female Footballers

The addition of women’s football isn’t the only big change coming with Football Manager 25. The game is moving to a new graphics engine, replacing its now tired-looking 3D match engine with one based on the Unity graphics engine.

Sports Interactive has yet to reveal any gameplay footage, even though the game is now only weeks from launch, but the company describes it as the “biggest technical and visual advancement for a generation.”

There are more than 7,000 motion capture animations in the new game, and all of those had to be done separately for male and female footballers. That meant hiring footballing twins Mollie and Rosie Kmita, the latter of which played for clubs including Tottenham Hotspur and West Ham Utd, to don the motion capture suits.

Rosie recalls how the pair would turn up every Friday at a warehouse in Brighton in the south of England, and work through a “list of deliverables” to ensure the motion capture captured every possible movement. They would be asked for “a hundred left-footed passes, a hundred right-footed passes,” and even “getting a red card and pretending to be sent off.”

Goalkeeper Sophie Whitehouse, who currently plays for Charlton Athletic in the English Women’s Championship, was hired to capture goalkeeper movements. “We are trying to simulate the women’s sport as accurately as possible,” said Jacobson.

Feminine Language
It’s not only the way the game looks that’s had to be feminized, but the way it reads too. The game contains more than four million words and phrases, more than The Bible according to Jacobson, and that language had to be made gender appropriate. Microsoft helped Sports Interactive with that project, Jacobson revealed.

The labelling of teams has also been revisited. In England, for example, many of the top teams have both men’s and women’s teams, so they shall now be labelled in-game as (for example) Tottenham Hotspur men and Tottenham Hotspur women. The suffix won’t only be applied to the women, as it is in many branches of the media and beyond.

That decision might trigger some of the neanderthals on social media who are already claiming that the inclusion of women’s football will ruin the game, as might the decision to make Football Manager 25 “one game world, where you can move seamlessly between men’s and women’s football,” according to Jacobson.

However, for those who really can’t bear the thought of engaging with the women’s game, there will be an option to toggle off women’s football, in exactly the same way as there will be an option to block off the men’s game.

“We are determined to be a small part of the solution for equality and equity in women’s sport,” said Jacobson. Game on.

 

[XV20]

46 minutes ago, ohnonottheshouts said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycollins/2024/10/05/football-manager-25-how-they-made-it-a-womens-game-too/

 

Should clear up some commonly asked questions.

nice read..👍

[ohnonottheshouts]

https://www.bigbang.si/football-manager-25-igra-za-pc-izdelek-1547497/
https://manipurasoftware.com/produkt/football-manager-25-pc/

The slovenian description of FM25 provided to slovenian retailers seem to contain information not yet announced anywhere else. The first part of the description is essentially the same as the english one, just directly translated into slovenian, but the second part contains these paragraphs, which aren't present anywhere else:

Quote

The expanded Data Hub offers deeper insight into statistics and performance, allowing you to analyze every aspect of your team's game.

New tactical insights allow you to fine-tune your strategy, giving you an edge over your opponents.

An improved scouting and transfer system gives you more control over discovering and bringing in new talent. With personalized scouting reports and advanced player analysis tools, it's now easier than ever to build the team of your dreams.

More advanced AI managers are now more intelligent and responsive, providing more challenging and dynamic gameplay.

For the first time, cross-play allows you to compete with your friends regardless of which platform they play on.

I'd be quick to write this off completely if it wasn't for the fact that the first half of the description matches up with the official one, and that the second half is written in the same "SI syntax" that you'd expect. Could still just be nonsense though obviously. 

[Ghost77]

Every day I look at the roadmap (calendar with no dates) I am more convinced they should wait with the move to Unity for FM26. We all could have another classic new edition of "old" FM a go with our lives as usual. SI would have more time to finish the product properly without cutting out the stuff and make a proper PR for the new era. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with moving to Unity or changes in general (quite the opposite), but this seems so forced and rushed. I kind of feel for Miles and SI now, because they have naively put themselves into this mud and have nowhere to move now.

I wish so much the game is good and all the concerns are just pointless. But with all the cutting, postponing, no beta, no pics, no transparency mess I am not able to believe it. They are starting the roadmap with introducing women's football which is a feature announced two years ago, so it's logical they are not comfortable with the other reveals (match experience, tactics, interface... honestly so much more important for most players). They just should have waited for one more year.

[Costav]

2 hours ago, nico_france said:

Really looking forward to have, hopefully, announcements for AI team building

This was for me, not even in FM24, the biggest problem, especially if you play more than 5 seasons

Human player can take advantage of the weak AI too easily to build a legacy with tons of wonderkids/top players

And more over, fix the inflation of prices which is becoming ridiculous on the transfer market after a few seasons , and not only for top players 

When you reach the point where average players worth 100M+ it’s completely game breaker for me, for example I can remember a game when Mainoo from Man U was sold more than 250M€, which is ridiculous from my pov

 

Think about it in this way: how much would you expect Barcelona would ask today for Cubarsi or Yamal?

 Although sometimes the price system is not perfect, I think that it works well in replicating the willingness of the club not to sell one player. It means that only a very high offer would let the club accept it for players that are absolutely not on sale

[whatsupdoc]

7 hours ago, Costav said:

Think about it in this way: how much would you expect Barcelona would ask today for Cubarsi or Yamal?

 Although sometimes the price system is not perfect, I think that it works well in replicating the willingness of the club not to sell one player. It means that only a very high offer would let the club accept it for players that are absolutely not on sale

Yeah I really hope this wonderkid farming isn't possible in fm25. It's been my playstyle for as long as I can remember because it's fun... but it really should be more challenging.