FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[Carambau]

You can blame it on the ref if you lose.

[bigmattb28]

3 hours ago, DJ Sir Matthew said:

same here, so for better immersion I do feel I need to have a way of communicating with my players on the field during the game, but also the setting has to be right (so not a generic stadium etc). I wonder with the new engine if there will be space for a modding community to build all real life stadiums and import them in the game? I tend to think this would be possible and would only increase the match day experience and its immersion?

I wouldn't hold your breath on that mate. Nearest we've got is images of the stadium on the club info page

[XaW]

3 hours ago, bigmattb28 said:

I'm English and you don't wanna know the type of stuff we smoke here

I've seen your posts in the beta threads, so I have a fair idea of what you smoke...

[-Jef-]

2 hours ago, bigmattb28 said:

I wouldn't hold your breath on that mate. Nearest we've got is images of the stadium on the club info page

WE're also changing engines and unity is fully moddable, if SI allow it.

[Novem9]

В 10.07.2024 в 17:01, XaW сказал:

I've seen your posts in the beta threads, so I have a fair idea of what you smoke...

GIFFest is coming

[gunner86]

On 10/07/2024 at 15:01, XaW said:

I've seen your posts in the beta threads, so I have a fair idea of what you smoke...

Steak bakes are baked, not smoked

[Smurf]

I'll be buying a new computer this year or next year - so I'll probably drop FM12 and try FM25 - it will be a huge jump for me.

Looking forward to the inclusivity across the board for Women's football, it's about time. They work hard on their careers and have paved the way for future generations who want a career in football too. 

We all love football.

It's not particularly a part of the game I would load if it is optional. I can't really see it being a performance hit - it will be just like not loading the Asian, Chinese, Austral, etc. leagues

Typically only load the main European leagues (Eng, Ire (cause I'm from there), Ger, Ita, Ned, Spa, etc - then Bra/Arg)

Like any other save, the other leagues and databases not loaded has minimal impact on computer performance.

Chances are I won't like FM25 - with shouts removed (stupid if you ask me). The main part of the game I enjoy is Match Day, and managing the squad - how is the manager to interact with the team on the pitch during a match? I get that they said it was not clear where it started and ended etc. - but I don't see it that way, I see it as shortcuts to match instructions. 
60 minutes 1 goal down

Get Ball Forward
Pass to Feet 
Overload 
Work Ball into box

That's how I want them to play for the last 30 minutes to try get a goal back.

Now to do that - I'll have to pause the match - go into the tactics - change a bunch of settings - and go back to the match

Sorry - but removing Shouts is stupid

Hopefully it's changed something to like Quick Tactics 

Where you can have some presaved tactical changes for when a goal down - or needing to defend and park the bus 

I just don't understand why they take away 'Shouts' a critical part of a Football Managers job - but leave in stupid things like Media Questions that don't make sense. 
Contracts offered to staff and they just leave with no warning. 

I have high hopes for FM25 and beyond.
But I fear I'll just revert to FM12 - it's annoying but not as annoying as 13,14,15 etc. 


*I'd love to be able to yell at a player who is rating below 6.0 - have a word with the Captain to perk him up and get him going 

These are things needed for match day matches

Edited July 14 by Smurf

[DP]

Nobody really understands the impact of ‘shouts’ in real life though. They can either do one of two things; have a tactical impact or a psychological impact on the player.

Tactical changes continue to be there so no real issues there other than the ‘real time-ness’ of it but, as explained, the way the ME re-calculates makes this a bit of a problem. As long as I can pause and make tactical tweaks that’s good enough for me and does the same thing as a tactic changing shout.

The mental stuff is completely qualitative and will be different depending on the player, manager and specific circumstances. No way this can be modelled properly currently outside of some random morale changes so I think it’s the right time to have a rethink.  

[-Jef-]

1 hour ago, Smurf said:

Where you can have some presaved tactical changes for when a goal down - or needing to defend and park the bus 

You do know you can have more than 1 tactics saved? And most skins allow you to quickly change between tactics from the 'sidelines' without having to pause and enter tactics screen

[Smurf]

4 hours ago, -Jef- said:

You do know you can have more than 1 tactics saved? And most skins allow you to quickly change between tactics from the 'sidelines' without having to pause and enter tactics screen

Yeh but it's not the same as shouting instructions to the players - and something I want to avoid - as I said - the shouts are more intuitive and inline with a manager on the sidelines. 

I never once saw Klopp, Arteta, Guardiola or Ferguson pause a game, shift some counters around a screen and start the game up.

You should be able to interact with the players during the match - just as you would if you were a real manager.

That's the entire premise of the whole game.

[gunner86]

7 hours ago, Smurf said:

 

Get Ball Forward
Pass to Feet 
Overload 
Work Ball into box

That's how I want them to play for the last 30 minutes to try get a goal back.

 

Which shout is it currently that does this?

[Smurf]

46 minutes ago, gunner86 said:

Which shout is it currently that does this?

They're shouts in fm12 anyway

[-Jef-]

2 hours ago, Smurf said:

Yeh but it's not the same as shouting instructions to the players - and something I want to avoid - as I said - the shouts are more intuitive and inline with a manager on the sidelines. 

I never once saw Klopp, Arteta, Guardiola or Ferguson pause a game, shift some counters around a screen and start the game up.

You should be able to interact with the players during the match - just as you would if you were a real manager.

That's the entire premise of the whole game.

Which you can do still do. Pep doesn't shout to Walker "Tighten up" or whatever quip it is but he tells him to be more defensive, stop making so many runs forward and play it safer. We can do that by changing him from WB-S to WB-D, for example.

Edited July 14 by -Jef-

[gunner86]

9 minutes ago, Smurf said:

They're shouts in fm12 anyway

They’re instructions in 24. The things that are being removed are things like “calm down”, “berate” and “demand more”.

Personally, I use the same sort of things as you, I use more specific instructions, which you’d really hope will remain as they’re a vital part of how a team plays.

[EvilWolf1980]

I cant wait to get my hands on FM25, I really hated FM24 that I went back to FM23. the biggest gripe was when scouting players aged 21-28 and say defensive midfielder from europe it would still show me something crazy like a 38 year old striker from brazil. it would drive me crazy all the time doing this. the filters never worked which made scouting a nightmare I went back to FM23 which I am still playing but hoping FM25 doesnt have this problem. 

[Ti Ago]

15 horas atrás, EvilWolf1980 disse:

I cant wait to get my hands on FM25, I really hated FM24 that I went back to FM23. the biggest gripe was when scouting players aged 21-28 and say defensive midfielder from europe it would still show me something crazy like a 38 year old striker from brazil. it would drive me crazy all the time doing this. the filters never worked which made scouting a nightmare I went back to FM23 which I am still playing but hoping FM25 doesnt have this problem. 

What ? That must have been a bug of your save . That doesn't happen

[CamAshworth]

Do the AI managers also use shouts during the course of a match?

If not surely it is an unfair advantage to the player. (if they actually had any affect which is debatable)

[gunner86]

7 hours ago, Ti Ago said:

What ? That must have been a bug of your save . That doesn't happen

Literally does, you have to clear the filters before changing what you want, otherwise it gives you weird stuff in the results.

[dℍaisa]

3 hours ago, CamAshworth said:

Do the AI managers also use shouts during the course of a match?

If not surely it is an unfair advantage to the player. (if they actually had any affect which is debatable)

Shouts have no tactical effect. Only effect is on body language. The question is how much affect does body language has on performance.

[XV20]

 

3 hours ago, CamAshworth said:

Do the AI managers also use shouts during the course of a match?

If not surely it is an unfair advantage to the player. (if they actually had any affect which is debatable)

Yes they do

[Icy]

6 hours ago, CamAshworth said:

Do the AI managers also use shouts during the course of a match?

If not surely it is an unfair advantage to the player. (if they actually had any affect which is debatable)

Yes, they do. the text commentary also displays it from time to time, like coach X berated his team or something along that.

[whatsupdoc]

19 hours ago, Ti Ago said:

What ? That must have been a bug of your save . That doesn't happen

That doesn't happen *to you*.

Scouting has been very buggy in this FM, especially from recruitment focuses.

[-Jef-]

20 hours ago, dℍaisa said:

Shouts have no tactical effect. Only effect is on body language. The question is how much affect does body language has on performance.

This is simply not true. From the gaffer himself

 

[Jonthedon26]

I'm still not too happy about the removal of shouts... sometimes when my team are 3-0 down after 20mins I just wanted to light a fire under them, stick a rocket up their arse if you will, but obviously now this won't be possible. 

[jcafcwbb]

On 14/07/2024 at 16:14, Smurf said:

Yeh but it's not the same as shouting instructions to the players - and something I want to avoid - as I said - the shouts are more intuitive and inline with a manager on the sidelines. 

I never once saw Klopp, Arteta, Guardiola or Ferguson pause a game, shift some counters around a screen and start the game up.

You should be able to interact with the players during the match - just as you would if you were a real manager.

That's the entire premise of the whole game.

What these managers will do is to have match plans in place before the game. So if you are 1-0 up with ten minutes to go the players will know what is expected. They do not change things by clicking a praise more button either.

[tiago_wakabayashi]

Em 28/06/2024 em 06:51, Mr. Moran disse:

Why? Is this really necessary? It's so confusing.

Really confusing

 

Em 28/06/2024 em 08:52, FourFiveOne disse:

Exactly! If anything they should release the game much earlier in the future. Waiting till November (or late October for beta) is so frustrating. Some leagues are already starting in July like Belgium and Switzerland.

Either way they'll have a full year to work on the next version, they only have to change the release date once, for example next year, as FM25 will have the most work to accomplish so this year they can't afford to lose that extra one or two months if they decided to shift. However, for the future they should consider releasing the game earlier, in my opinion.

It could follow the PES/FIFA Release that is early than FM one.

Em 28/06/2024 em 23:52, dℍaisa disse:

It appears that Sports Interactive (SI) has been removing less-used features instead of addressing thier issues, as evidenced by the removal of shouts. This trend is causing me to worry that international management might be the next feature on the chopping block.

This would be the absurd mainly after the last improvement, even they being small ones. I hope a real revamp, the international management has all or almost all the club management elements and the possiblity of the managers plan a "football project" to develop the local/international team. Could include also a "permanent international team" for some countries that don't have a strong or structured local leagues, to form a team and keep the players training on the country football headquarter; some years ago the Brazilian Women's Football Team kept the same group of players training together like a club. I did a thread some years ago about how to expand the International Management here

Em 29/06/2024 em 00:14, WizbaII disse:

Some people here are bemoaning the removal of shouts. Just because you use them, it doesn't mean everyone else does. You never stop to ask yourself, "why should I need a 'Shout' to tell a fake player to 'Concentrate More'. If my virtual player will not work hard unless and until I 'Shout' at him...does that not seem a little...idiotic?" This is supposed to be Football Manager, not Social Interactions Manager. You are supposed to win matches based on football knowledge, not because you insist on using 'Shouts' on your players. Or is it fine for something to be silly, as long as it brings "immersion"?

You've just been told that Shouts will only return if they work properly. Why that would be bad news to you is something I can't understand, especially when you are claiming to have high standards for FM games.

Not only tactics take a team near to a win. The motivational too and the Shouts help in this part.

Em 29/06/2024 em 06:49, Federico disse:

By the way, beyond what I said previously, I agree removing shouts is removing a big part of the interaction between the coach and the players. Being a coach myself I know how communicating with them is crucial during the game and definitely a big part of immersion during the match-day experience. To me, they had to be increased in number of options and body/language (even tone of voice).

+1

Em 29/06/2024 em 07:24, jcafcwbb disse:

I think a lot of what you are doing will more the case of us editing stuff in the tactics screen. For example, playing a higher or lower defensive line, asking a player to play narrower or wider, asking them to play at a higher tempo or a lower one. The shouts were meant to be a quicker way to do this without pausing the game and doing it. 

+1

Em 29/06/2024 em 08:06, Chooxen disse:

Speaking also as someone who has coached in sports (not football), we were in constant communication with the players on pitch. You might want to focus on specific individuals or clarify position or when a team should execute a tactic, etc. General shouts of encouragement and reminders to stay focused are also very helpful over a long game where attention wanes and complacency sets in.

I honestly don't think the system was so broken that it warranted removal. It is already fairly clear that shouts don't occur until the ball goes out of play and the game often prompts you to change your mind when a highlight occurs, so that you don't berate a team that just scored. It seems to work well even if it's not an ideal system.

+1

I don't have an opinion about the new UI. I hope more screenshots for that. 

[Smurf]

3 hours ago, jcafcwbb said:

What these managers will do is to have match plans in place before the game. So if you are 1-0 up with ten minutes to go the players will know what is expected. They do not change things by clicking a praise more button either.

But you see managers shouting at players, passing notes, it happens in real life, it should happen in the game 

[NineCloudNine]

45 minutes ago, Smurf said:

But you see managers shouting at players, passing notes, it happens in real life, it should happen in the game 

I suspect the managers doing this are exercising a degree of micro-management that isn’t reflected in the tools available in FM, like telling players to be a yard deeper, or to do something really specific when an opposition player does X.

This was never what the current functionality of shouts replicated. So their removal doesn’t affect whether or not we can do the sort of thing you are describing. However, that sort of precision in game management would be great so I’d love to see it in some form, which would ideally be via a new touchline shout function.

[-Jef-]

52 minutes ago, Smurf said:

But you see managers shouting at players, passing notes, it happens in real life, it should happen in the game 

Again...you can do that via PI and TI and via changing role/duty. You don't see Pep patting Haaland on the head and yelling ENCOURAGE and then at the next stop of play his body language improves and he is no longer nervous and is happy.

[Rodrigogc]

Shouts should work depending on mental attributes of the players in my opinion. Usually they work more when managers are managing low level teams, where players need a guidance or a boost from the manager. You don't see Ancelotti shouting at real madrid players, because they are elite players and have the proper mentality to know what to do without a manager shouting at them.  It should depend also on the reputation of the manager and how long he's been at the club. 

Managers like Ancelotti, Pep, Mourinho... they will be respected wherever they go, meaning that practically any player in the world would be affected by their shouts. Managers like Pocchetino and Tuchel not so much, but depending on how long they've been training the team, they can get the respect of the players. Pocchetino at Tottenham had the respect of his players and his instructions worked well since he managed the team for years, at PSG he didn't have the respect and struggled to get his players motivated..

These dynamics would take the game to a next level.

[Jonthedon26]

On 16/07/2024 at 22:08, -Jef- said:

Again...you can do that via PI and TI and via changing role/duty. You don't see Pep patting Haaland on the head and yelling ENCOURAGE and then at the next stop of play his body language improves and he is no longer nervous and is happy.

I imagine you see/hear these thousands of times over a weekend of football matches. If a striker misses a one on one or something, you absolutely often see manager's shouting to that player "keep your head up" or "you'll put away the next one" or whatever it is. Obviously that isn't shouting "encourage" but I don't perceive the current shouts to literally be a shout of that word. Again, if someone does something terrible you very very often see a manager "berating" their player "what the **** was that [insert player name], next time get rid of it" or whatever. Anyone who has ever played football knows that their is a combination of things manager's shout to the players, some of it is tactical, which obviously is represented via instructions, but a lot of it is also for the mental side of things.

Obviously shouts don't work as intended in the game, like has been mentioned. You shouldn't have to wait for a break in the play for it to take effect etc, but having the choice of that or no shouts at all, I am picking shouts every time. 

[bigmattb28]

On 16/07/2024 at 18:20, tiago_wakabayashi said:

Not only tactics take a team near to a win. The motivational too and the Shouts help in this part.

+1 

[-Jef-]

2 hours ago, Jonthedon26 said:

I imagine you see/hear these thousands of times over a weekend of football matches. If a striker misses a one on one or something, you absolutely often see manager's shouting to that player "keep your head up" or "you'll put away the next one" or whatever it is. Obviously that isn't shouting "encourage" but I don't perceive the current shouts to literally be a shout of that word. Again, if someone does something terrible you very very often see a manager "berating" their player "what the **** was that [insert player name], next time get rid of it" or whatever. Anyone who has ever played football knows that their is a combination of things manager's shout to the players, some of it is tactical, which obviously is represented via instructions, but a lot of it is also for the mental side of things.

Obviously shouts don't work as intended in the game, like has been mentioned. You shouldn't have to wait for a break in the play for it to take effect etc, but having the choice of that or no shouts at all, I am picking shouts every time. 

And IRL you can berate a player every 10 seconds. In FM about every 15 minutes or so. It needed a big revamp because they were basically useless.

 

Also, not sure how much can a player at the opposite sideline hear what you're shouting when 70k fans are chanting for the whole game, for example. Do we then also need a reduced effect depending on how far away the player was and number of fans and % of hardcore fans?

[dℍaisa]

2 minutes ago, -Jef- said:

And IRL you can berate a player every 10 seconds. In FM about every 15 minutes or so. It needed a big revamp because they were basically useless.

For that you'll have to play on the full match highlights setting 😂 

[-Jef-]

1 hour ago, dℍaisa said:

For that you'll have to play on the full match highlights setting 😂 

I do play a lot of games on full match highlights and it's greyed out for about 15 minutes.

[Jonthedon26]

2 hours ago, -Jef- said:

And IRL you can berate a player every 10 seconds. In FM about every 15 minutes or so. It needed a big revamp because they were basically useless.

 

Also, not sure how much can a player at the opposite sideline hear what you're shouting when 70k fans are chanting for the whole game, for example. Do we then also need a reduced effect depending on how far away the player was and number of fans and % of hardcore fans?

Very true, I get exactly what you are saying, but just for me personally I think matchdays will lose a lot of its immersion without shouts. I wish there was a way they could have revamped them rather than removed them. 

[g1nh0]

1 hour ago, Jonthedon26 said:

Very true, I get exactly what you are saying, but just for me personally I think matchdays will lose a lot of its immersion without shouts. I wish there was a way they could have revamped them rather than removed them. 

That's exactly why I won't be buying another FM until something becomes available that gives you the ability to manage by way of communicating from the touchline. 

Maybe the current system wasn't an ideal one, but considering it's been in the game for what, over a decade then surely such an important part in managing your team should have been developed with plenty of years / opportunities to do so. And let's face it, there are many other elements in FM that do not work as intended / or are done well enough to be considered a successful realistic implementation.

I liked the way I at least had the opportunity periodically to make an affect on the player / the game in some capacity, and to do this in critical points / situations in a game. Now, apart from normal substitutions, my only option to manipulate the game during the halves is plugging in an exploit tactic. The immersion for me has been completely removed.

With shouts put on the shelf "indefinitely", that also says to me there is not really any focus / importance being placed in reintroducing it anytime soon, or if it will ever come back at all...

[Luke Cro]

Maybe it's a long shot right now, but I have question for developers regarding Data Editor (Pre-game Editor).

Is going to be included within FM25, and if yes, will it be possible to import databases from FM24??

[bigmattb28]

1 minute ago, Luke Cro said:

Maybe it's a long shot right now, but I have question for developers regarding Data Editor (Pre-game Editor).

Is going to be included within FM25, and if yes, will it be possible to import databases from FM24??

It's been included in every FM game so I highly doubt it's gonna be excluded from 25. And don't hold your breath on it being able to import older FM databases. 24 let you import a 23 game but not a database.

[Luke Cro]

5 hours ago, bigmattb28 said:

It's been included in every FM game so I highly doubt it's gonna be excluded from 25. And don't hold your breath on it being able to import older FM databases. 24 let you import a 23 game but not a database.

I must correct you here, you can import database from FM23 editor into 24 one

Anyway, I doubt too.. with all mentioned changes in 25 edition, we will be lucky to get brand new editor..

[grade]

2 hours ago, Luke Cro said:

I must correct you here, you can import database from FM23 editor into 24 one

Anyway, I doubt too.. with all mentioned changes in 25 edition, we will be lucky to get brand new editor..

I would be happy just the same Editor, but with the current bugs fixed.

Instead of making workarounds to avoid said bugs.

[Wolf_pd]

9 hours ago, Luke Cro said:

Maybe it's a long shot right now, but I have question for developers regarding Data Editor (Pre-game Editor).

Is going to be included within FM25, and if yes, will it be possible to import databases from FM24??

Officially, noone knows. I would be very surprised if there is no editor for FM25 though (and I would wonder where I am going to moderate then )

With regard to your second question, that's a good one. That might depend on the changes to the data model that are needed to include women football and how they are build into the editor.
I have no clue on that.

9 hours ago, bigmattb28 said:

It's been included in every FM game so I highly doubt it's gonna be excluded from 25. And don't hold your breath on it being able to import older FM databases. 24 let you import a 23 game but not a database.

I was able to import databases from FM20, 21, 22 and 23. No issue, although DB quality did help in some instances.

[WizbaII]

Not sure why people are worried about features being removed. It's not like they're taking out the match engine. I imagine developing FM is a bit like running a grocery store, sometimes you have to take out something in order to have space for something better. But you cannot get to something better if you are just clinging to the past.

[Ti Ago]

We want more updates !

[kiwityke1983]

On 15/07/2024 at 21:51, CamAshworth said:

Do the AI managers also use shouts during the course of a match?

If not surely it is an unfair advantage to the player. (if they actually had any affect which is debatable)

I believe I've seen the commentator say something along the lines of "Manager X is telling his players to calm down" etc.

So I just assumed they did.

[Luke Cro]

Hopefully in FM25 there will be less player / squad unhappiness..

Almost every week (or two) players are unhappy about something.. it's too frequent IMO..

[eekaboo]

I hope we can transfer our saved shortlist over. I've had a rolling one for years that I just update every version. 

Plus it would be nice to be able to transfer over our graphics packs from FM24. 

[andu1]

I hope i dont have to use obnoxious gegenpress tactics like i was forced to do in FM 24 because no other, normal life football tactics worked.

Edited July 21 by andu1

[andu1]

Everything has to be counter-press/ higher def line, attacking tactics otherwise FM24 is a painful experience.

[jcafcwbb]

22 minutes ago, andu1 said:

I hope i dont have to use obnoxious gegenpress tactics like i was forced to do in FM 24 because no other, normal life football tactics worked.

In my Man Utd save currently top of the Premier League and have got 10 out of 12 in the Champions League (dropped points was away to Inter) using the preset Control Possession tactic (the one that comes with the game). 

In my AFC Wimbledon save, got them promoted the Championship via the playoffs , predicted to finish 24th but have confirmed safety with 2 games to go using the Fluid Counter Attack tactic.

With both had to think through the right combination of roles and and duties but you can be successful not using Gegenpress.