Citizen Sandman Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 won my bet so that was nice, just a clear eye opener that these other guys are levels above - particularly Ruiz and Rodri 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 4 minutes ago, JD nawrat said: England have one of the best ball playing defenders in the world in Stones, and instead of trying to use him and Rice to link the midfield and defence, Pickford clatters it 70 yards and gives the ball away It's ridiculous. Stones and Rice were dire in this tournament, I'm all for Pickford bashing for going long, but those 2 offered nothing throughout in terms of getting the ball forward Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted July 15 Author Share Posted July 15 1 minute ago, Barry Cartman said: Stones and Rice were dire in this tournament, I'm all for Pickford bashing for going long, but those 2 offered nothing throughout in terms of getting the ball forward Has Stones lost some pace? Him and Walker defending that right hand side was painful viewing at times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Just now, Coulthard's Jaw said: Has Stones lost some pace? Him and Walker defending that right hand side was painful viewing at times. I know its the easy excuse to say, he looks injured, I already see people saying that about Kane which seems silly as injury doesn't make him drop into left back, but Stones hasn't played much this season and just didn't look like he was moving at all like he would for City 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkSport Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 I thought last two games, Stones was back to his normal self, at worse just below. Could tell first 4 games he was rusty as anything, but he was up for the physical battle against Weghorst and kept him quiet and last night, was largely on it again. The goals conceded, he couldn't do anything about. First one, great first time flick by Carajval which took Shaw out of the play. Meant Guehi had to go to Yamal, Stones then cover Morata run, Walker same for Olmo and Williams is then unmarked. Second goal, played through middle, flicked out wide where first time cross is great as it takes first defender out and attacker gets ahead of Guehi. Looking at both goal, it really is a bit on Saka for it's his man in those moments. He can see the picture for both, and first one just lets Williams go, second one, same for Cucarella. He can't do anything about side being played through middle, but those other bits are on him. Looking at how both halves started are polarising. We start off first half, going straight back to Pickford who kicks long out of play for goal kick. Spain, retain possesion, clip it long one part but with intention to Morata to pick up 2nd ball, and from there go onto keep hold of ball and score. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD nawrat Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 41 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said: Stones and Rice were dire in this tournament, I'm all for Pickford bashing for going long, but those 2 offered nothing throughout in terms of getting the ball forward Is that on them, though? I feel like most managers would utilise them and their strengths much better. They did look poor throughout most of the tournament, but then so did just about every English player... nobody was played to their strengths at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmeee17 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Rice is not a playmaking 6, the sooner we stop thinking he will play like Rodri the better. Whether Wharton is the answer or whether it's someone else, it means Rice, Bellingham, Foden and Mainoo are competing for the 2 midfield positions ahead of the 6 if we want to play a proper system with players in their proper positions. There is going to people's favorites out of the XI and some are not going to like it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Sandman Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 a world class CDM is something England have needed for quite sometime and IMO the difference all the time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Rice is a world class DM in the defensive aspects, but just can't progress the ball. The number of times Foden has to drop deep into midfield to help out with moving the ball upfield is a testament to how bad it was this tournament. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 1 minute ago, Bootador said: Rice is a world class DM in the defensive aspects, but just can't progress the ball. The number of times Foden has to drop deep into midfield to help out with moving the ball upfield is a testament to how bad it was this tournament. Which is why he should have been partnered with Bellingham, who is brilliant at progressing the ball with both passes and dribbling. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Sandman Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 11 minutes ago, Bootador said: Rice is a world class DM in the defensive aspects, but just can't progress the ball. The number of times Foden has to drop deep into midfield to help out with moving the ball upfield is a testament to how bad it was this tournament. when he was outmuscled by simons! joking aside i meant, pirlo, kroos, rodri - yes england need this style of player Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 18 minutes ago, Citizen Sandman said: when he was outmuscled by simons! joking aside i meant, pirlo, kroos, rodri - yes england need this style of player they have for years, I mentioned in 2012, Pirlo ran the game against England in the Euros I thought maybe Wilshere was going to be it around that time but it wasn't to be, he had a bit of a Xavi/Iniesta sort of style to him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Sandman Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Carrick was as close to what is required - what Hoddle before that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Sandman Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 but anytime you need cooling down or turning it up, this player does it for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eenie Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 8 minutes ago, TM said: they have for years, I mentioned in 2012, Pirlo ran the game against England in the Euros I thought maybe Wilshere was going to be it around that time but it wasn't to be, he had a bit of a Xavi/Iniesta sort of style to him Wilshere was, iirc, much more of an Iniesta than a Xavi - he could carry the ball very nicely but didn't really have the range of passing. Was very tidy with the ball but not the sort to ping it about all over the place, as I remember it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Citizen Sandman said: when he was outmuscled by simons! joking aside i meant, pirlo, kroos, rodri - yes england need this style of player Then England's problem is that they don't move any midfield playmakers back. Pirlo, Xavi, Modrić, Kroos, Alcantara, Rakitić, Jorginho, Brozović, Calanoglu all started as #8s or even #10s and moved down to #6 role eventually. You identify a highly technical midfielder who's good at receiving the ball deep and progressing it without taking too many risks and you turn him develop him into a deep playmaker. Issue being that needs to happen on club level, not enough NT games to make it work. TAA has some attributes, but is a long way off if he's to play as a midfielder. Could do it, but would take at least a couple of seasons for him to get to top level as a midfield playmaker. Edited July 15 by GunmaN1905 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Sandman Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 1 minute ago, GunmaN1905 said: TAA has some attributes, but is a long way off if he's to play as a midfielder. Could do it, but would take at least a couple of seasons for him to get to top level as a midfield playmaker. no never, he doesn't have the guile to receive on the turn, the ability to hold off like Rodri etc can - he doesn't even have the nous to get it off CB and go RB, then off RB to fizz to LB. he'd just try a glory switch alot - he doesn't have the natural mental and physical attributes. In all fairness Bellingham is closest to it, think it was him with the arrow ball to watkins who couldn't control - direct through the line. he also has the body strength to roll and protect. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Just now, Citizen Sandman said: no never, he doesn't have the guile to receive on the turn, the ability to hold off like Rodri etc can - he doesn't even have the nous to get it off CB and go RB, then off RB to fizz to LB. he'd just try a glory switch alot - he doesn't have the natural mental and physical attributes. Right now he has none of that, but he's a highly intelligent player who could get there with enough repetitions. But Liverpool isn't a club that can sacrifice results for that kind of development. Quote In all fairness Bellingham is closest to it, think it was him with the arrow ball to watkins who couldn't control - direct through the line. he also has the body strength to roll and protect. He's probably going back to #8 role with Mbappe joining Real and then #10 experiment becomes a thing of the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Sandman Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 1 minute ago, GunmaN1905 said: Right now he has none of that, but he's a highly intelligent player who could get there with enough repetitions. But Liverpool isn't a club that can sacrifice results for that kind of development. not a ****ing chance imo but this is all we have, assholes and opinions 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 I'm going to keep saying it until it manifests itself properly, the CM is Bellingham. He already can progress the excellently through passing or dribbling from deep, and he's very press resistant. Rice should win it and move it short, Bellingham the deep orchestrator, Foden or Palmer the 10, or the really high 8 in a 4-3-3. Wharton deputises for Rice, Mainoo for Bellingham as both deputies get more experienced Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthCoastRed Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 4 hours ago, Citizen Sandman said: but this is all we have, assholes and opinions OTF Football Forum summed up nicely 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordan Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 You're wasting one of your best generations on Southgate. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Spain taking a leaf out of Serbia and Argentina's books by singing provocative nonsense after winning Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantine Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 9 minutes ago, Heartwork said: Spain taking a leaf out of Serbia and Argentina's books by singing provocative nonsense after winning Oi, don't put us Serbs with that lot... We ain't winning anything 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 True, Serbian fans sing about Kosovo regardless. Having some fun calling out Spanish hypocrisy over their own colonies they still control though. Their nationalists really don't like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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