RDF Tactics

I'm trying myself and can only really get one each, if that, myself. Still trying other things so will get back to you in a moment to see if I find a trigger

I think City winning 10 out of 10 is a problem in itself. Unless LFC really dislike a 4-2-3-1 which I can see being the case haha And trust me, you're not alone in the disappointment with FM24. I think as a consumer, I'm at a point of high expectations (mostly put on because of SI themselves). With positional play, I was extremely excited and I still like it now, but it made me more sceptical about the defensive side of things. In FM23 for example, I found the off-the-ball marking not ideal. So, then adding positional play on top, I was wondering how teams off the ball would deal with such movements. "how will my CM deal with tracking a B2B back who then joins their AMC to make 2 AMs". So with FM24, it has just been a year, so far, of tactical experiments etc. This upsets me as I love to play saves (I'd be lying if I said I don't enjoy creating tactics, though), stream my saves and stuff but as a content creator, I struggle to stream and create content on FM this year because no saves really grips me for multiple reasons. I tried a long term save with a Level 12 side and by 3 seasons, I was done with it (could be partly down to how I play the game anyway). I feel left in the dark with many things too - especially when it comes to data in game so even tutorial/guide videos become increasingly more difficult to do without giving out misinformation. I have already because FM doesn't explain certain metrics so I took my own idea which turned out to be wrong. Stripping back that expectation though, FM is still very much a playable game. FM24 is the best one yet for some. Miles, in my opinion, didn't help with his "most polished version". And then with the promise of better communication. That got my hopes up and it didn't HAVE to be completely true. But I do feel (just my opinion), it's not close to the most polished. And certain things should've been communicated (after making the promise). Some mentioned it was for marketing - but when you're extremely passionate about a product, you'll believe in it regardless. One thing about this forum, it's filled with passionate FM players.

Example being... Two separate Serie A saves. In terms of teams underperforming xGA, the two are similar. Double digits in terms of positive xGA. Half, or less, are in positive on FM in both saves. I'm not going down the route "but IRL this and that". It's just a reference. My observation which then falls down to keepers rather than claiming xG is broken. But also take not of the difference between some teams xGA and how many they are underperforming by. Maybe people are in agreement keepers can improve a lot. Or maybe thats just me lol.

We're looking at xGA. In FM, in the Leeds shot, you can see all but 2 teams are underperforming their xGA. And the point is that it's a similar story everywhere. You pointed out one league when I posted various. Clearly, there are more goals in the Championship. But unreasonable when it's a similar story in every league.

Different leagues for sure play a role. South Africa has some extreme results but I'm not sure if that's also down to the quality between certain teams. La Liga is where I started taking goalkeeper notes - managing Barca, we'd score certain goals that forced me to look at the opposition goalkeeper. I have no idea if this is partly why some goals goal in Football Manager. No idea about coding etc. But here's my player taking a long shot. The ball has now travelled and the keeper still isn't reacting or sorting his feet and hands out to save the shot. He's dead middle in the goal and not shifting over to the corner when the ball is going. The shot doesn't end right in the corner but because of late reaction, it goes straight passed him. As the ball and keeper meet (sort of), the keeper is now nowhere near it. It's a very saveable shot - weren't in the corner or too powerful. He was just late to react but also his arms not stretched. Stays rooted to the same spot and doesn't sort his feet to shift over to both save the ball and see the ball (though he had full sight). The height of the ball makes it more of a shot he should be saving. Weren't in the top corner or bottom corner. It's a perfect height for keepers but due to bad positioning, it'll go in. Maybe it's just a visual representation thing - as commentary also says he rifled a low shot but it's fairly high-mid.

Here, we can see the keeper's position from when the cross came in... Knowing the ball with be travelling past him, he does not attempt to sort his feet out and reorganise his body. Instead, stays rooted to the same spot. The striker now has an open goal. The keeper then attempts to save the ball from where he's standing, which, he's never ever going to get to. Watching that as a keeper, admittedly, is hard - I almost want to put my kit on, jump in the Match Engine and put myself in goal They just don't seem as reactive as strikers in terms of recognising situations, changing body angles, quick changes of movements etc.

What's your mentality on? I think with the instructions you've set, deep crosses should be happening. But maybe a change of mentality (to attacking = more risk) can give it a little push

I just posted two other xG tables from Championship and League Two and it's all the same for me. This is in Italy, with two different teams (different saves). Really, there should only be a few overperforming their xG with the majority also overperforming their xGA Only 6 teams in Serie A last season overperformed on their xG. So this, imo, is something they could look at. There's likely to be a lot more too it, but I've put it more simply down to the goalkeepers. The average save % in Serie A last season IRL was 71%. In comparison, it's fairly similar but I think in FM the quality of chances is generally higher, for balance, the keeper can/should do better at preventing. I mentioned it earlier, about the crowded box. I see many instances, especially from throw-ins, where the keeper's view is constantly blocked. This image here, the xG actually isn't high but at the same time, there's no way you'd expect the keeper to save the ball going through 2/3 bodies. Same game. Also from throw-in but for a different team. There tends to be players directly in front of the keeper's sight which would make these sort of chances VERY difficult to save. Both images the keeper is flat-footed too (nothing to do with performance, just an animation thing I'd love to see added). But also mentioned about adjusting feet. Keeper could also adjust his feet to get a better sight. But again, for animations.

And here are two other xG tables from other tactical saves I have. All the same/similar story in terms of many teams underperforming at preventing goals. For small reference. Currently, in the EPL, 12 teams are over-performing their xGA and only 10 teams over-performing on their xG. Last season in EPL ended with 14 teams over-performing their xGA. So to me, goalkeepers aren't doing near well enough in preventing goals in Football Manager 2024. - When watching (and I'm a goalkeeper haha), their reactions to things are very slow. Especially long-range drives - they're slow to react and often the ball creeps under the goalkeeper. - Their reach seems to be not good enough, too. Almost like their arms are permanently bent and can't fully stretch out - results in shots that aren't well in the corner still going in. - One thing we're told is do your best to not get beat at your near post. Keepers do get beaten there but 99% because of an very powerful shot almost impossible to save but in FM, keepers are beaten to easily at the near post. - Sweeper actions. Teams playing a higher line with Sweeper Keeper can concede goals because Sweeper Keeping actions aren't visible in game. Long balls over the top are often met by an unchallenged forward who has time to slot the ball in. The keeper *should* be coming out. If not out of the box, then close the angle for the attacker. Shouldn't apply to every keeper of course, but we have "rushing out" attribute which seems to be pretty much pointless as we don't get sweeping actions. - Not really Goalkeepers fault, but the distribution of defenders inside the box also effects the visions/sight of the goalkeeper. It's often crowded and the ball can find ways of travelling through bodies without keeper being able to react. Over technical stuff (more animation stuff). - Keepers are very flat-footed which doesn't look good on the keepers on the ME. Being on toes would look like my keeper is ready. Whether this has an effect on keepers struggling to go low from long-shots...no idea. But animation-wise, it can be better. - (moving away from the point and just jotting ideas) Keepers with good communication should be seen organising defenders (shouting/pointing). Again, letting us now he's using that attribute. - Quick feet/change of direction. Example, if a cross has looped over the keeper, often in FM they stay routed to that spot. Rather than organising their feet and re-positioning themselves to then deal with the next action rather than caught in no mans land.

Just playing devil's advocate (not against your post). I agree 10-0 is very extreme… but what was the expectation from these tests? If you were to test something many times, you’d likely get an outlier and possibly an extreme result. Just my opinion, I wouldn’t want FM to read a code on ME and be like “oh this would never happen IRL” because it’s supposed to be getting information from the game. Replicating IRL to a tee would never allow us to create stories. Some of us should never ever reach UCL with a national league side…etc etc. It has to create its own story so to speak. From those tests, one team rightly should have an off day…Though, again I agree, 10-0 is VERY an extreme result and the quality of the LFC players, that shouldn’t happen. I’ll be totally honest with you, I’ve done many of seasons (1 season tactical tests/experiments) and I have never seen a 10-0 score line. Anyone getting discouraged from it, I personally wouldn’t because it’s highly unlikely you’ll see that result. I think the highest scores I’ve seen is 7-2, which admittedly, I see too often. Especially in South Africa. It’s every other week. Or you’ll see Newcastle beat Brentford 7-2 one weekend. Trying to get to the route of that “issue”, I personally find there's a lot to do with keepers when I wake up properly, I will share some screenshots of xGA. In my league, only one or two teams are in positive out of 18 or so teams. So 16 teams aren’t performing well with xGA, and keepers are struggling to prevent goals. Edit: I'm awake haha So here is the xG table in my current season in South Africa. Only 2 teams performing positively when it comes to xGA. That then results in everyone but two over-performing their xG. There's only one team who are neutral and one team under-performing.

Ahh that's it must be the game because I'm having an issue... Yes. There is a tactical issue causing your world-class striker to not score goals. If you can't get world-class strikers Haaland, Mbappe, Osimhen, Vlahovic...to score goals in FM24 then I don't think anyone here would disagree in saying that's an isolated thing.

With the NCB, we didn't lose our heavy possession numbers haha (also showing with the right set-up and in the right league, you can fully take control of possession in a nice set-up/system). However, we can see a little drop, compared to our midfield, with the defence passing %. Partly down to the NCB? Now, our BPD has attempted 102 passes. Is this further backing up the BPD tactical freedom claim? or even reduced tactical freedom for the NCB? Possibly both haha but there is a significant drop in passes attempted with the NCB. He also has a lower passing %. Mostly because with the limited times he does receive the ball, he looks for that long pass as we are operating with a higher tempo. Get that ball from back to front quickly. I get that, maybe, the role itself should override instructions. So regardless, NCB is to hoof the ball. But I also believe you should be able to manage the frequency and balance the risk. One great way is to understand *better* the mentality/risk-taking

I felt FM24 was the perfect time to tweak/change some wording before FM25. For years now, some of us have been campaigning to change some of the wording on the tactic creator. The biggest one is mentality. Using Cautious, Balanced, Positive, and Attacking doesn't help people. It's natural to assume Attacking = Attacking football but in fact, it's just all about risk-taking. Take fewer risks either makes the player pass short to a player who is unmarked and safe to pass to - or will kick it long if no short option and/or being pressed. Not looking to take the risk of playing a line-breaking pass or a counter-attacking pass into a player's path. So often, it's good to pair this role with an AF or TF, someone who's a target for the NCB to always aim for (AF makes runs tempting the over-the-top pass. Paired with a high tempo, players tend to force this even more). That said, I tend to only use an NCB when using quick tempo + direct passing directness. The less tactical risk, the more time (tempo) the player will operate in getting the ball from back to front (I get that the role itself should override this and think it does to an extent). So below is NCB's mentality with the team on Cautious. But then with Attacking, we get a balanced mentality. So you can say, he's more likely to play that more direct pass with an attacking mentality (naturally, without using other instructions). If looking to counter opponents, this may not be a bad idea anyway. Because it's risk-taking, playing direct balls quickly to your ST or Winger. An attacking Mentality naturally gets you to play more directly with the ball, though you can of course tweak this with team instructions to replicate with a lower mentality. If noticed, the passing directness hasn't changed for the player between the two mentalities. So likely the only thing that's changing is the NCB being riskier with his tempo and decision to play that direct "low risk" pass. You may already know this stuff, but may be useful for anyone reading. So under the attacking mentality using a NCB, these are the passes he attempted but were unsuccessful. Can see there's a clear attempt to just hoof/play direct from CB to ST. But also, he's playing fewer passes than his partner. Now this can simply just be that in this game, my LCB played more passes than my RCB. But also the fact that BPD is looking to collect and receive the ball. (another use for the NCB other than just direct passes - you can pair an NCB with a BPD to get the better out of your BPD and play to your NCBs strengths). And now this is the NCB passing with Cautious mentality, passing directness in the middle but tempo all the way high. This is likely what some of you are probably wanting. But as can be seen, it's VERY risky (despite it says fewer risks haha). I don't think he completed any of the long passes he did attempt (the tactic may not be set up for that, though). The passing combination map shows us the difference between the two roles, too (BPB and NCB). There's a higher tendency to use the BPD. My takeaway would be that BPD has more tactical freedom than NCB (allowed to come short to receive the ball etc). This could *possibly* also be part of the "take fewer risks". Maybe, just maybe (because I don't know for a fact) that the BPD is also moving, creating angles to receive etc. And here's a great example of it in practice. Attacking - mixed passing - high tempo. He has 3 immediate passing options but instead, he's opted for his "hoof ball" pass into the channel to our AF (tip, put your target player on the same side. Example, AF on the right. TF on the right. Winger on attack on the right. This might help your NCB rather than a support role looking to come short). Apologies for the long reply/post. But maybe can help someone out here.

It could be a bit of both! I do remember some people mentioning that when AI get a man sent off, some of the roles don’t make sense like having IF in attacking midfield position, but could just because the analyst won’t know instantly what role the player is playing so it just stays on the role the player was on last.

Yeah don’t quote me on that, though. It only me guessing as I’ve noticed in particular games AI roles changing like from a mezzala to B2B but I see multiple roles changing so I just assume your analyst is trying to work out the opposition

This is the only thing I disagree with about your comment. Only because clubs IRL have analyst who work on live matches feeding the manager the same thing the game feeds us. By HT or even half way through the first half of a match IRL, managers are able to make tweaks based off the information given from their analyst. They’ll be able to spot things (not everything). and then in FM, don’t quote me on this though, the roles we see aren’t always correct. In my current save, the roles keep switching as if our analyst isn’t exactly sure and somewhat guessing. and by removing it and saying players should detect that, basically you’re saying we should all play the same way. Extended or comprehensive highlights. Now, we have to understand people play the game differently. Some don’t have the time to even play games like that. Spending 30mins on each match, closely analysing your opponent’s. FM have many different player types. Getting everyone to play in the same way would take away so much what people love about FM in the first place. Plus, analyst is totally a thing IRL. Thats just speaking from experience. I was a performance analyst at Cheltenham Town Ladies and my job exactly was to feed that information during games “we need our RW to make runs between their full back and CB. Their FB loves to attack and doesn’t get back in position quick enough” . It’ll then be down to the manager if he wants or can make that tweak. edit: actually, maybe having the option to have AI player roles visible can be added in preferences/options? Allowing FM players to make the game even more tailored for them

This is where the confusion lies. Or people are saying things just for the sake of saying things? - If your world-class striker can't hit a cow's backside with a banjo then unfortunately and I hate being that guy, but that's on you and your tactic. Strikers are the main scores in FM24 (unless you create a system where they're not the main threat) and if you create a system suited for your WC striker, then they can be very effective. Tactically, some people may need to be more careful with roles/instructions. Example, if playing 2 AFs and a SS, that's 3 players moving into the channels. Are too many players trying to attack the same channel therefore effecting the movement of one of your strikers? - AI keepers do have great games. On the flip side, if they didn't, you will be here complaining that you're scoring 5/6 goals every game. Challenge yourself to create more Clear Cut and Half Chances. Some people (me included) complain AI keeper playing too good but when I look, from their 20 shots, they took 14 long shots. If a keeper saves about 7 of your long shots, it will give him a good rating because he's stopping the ball from going into his net. - If Arsenal are trying to lowball you, set a price and instruct your DOF to reject any offers below that. Sort a simple solution to that. If your player gets upset (admittedly, this is where game and interactions can improve), you tell him that Arsenal didn't offer enough and then tell your player how much they should pay. If the player is still upset, that's the challenge. It's not supposed to be that your player accepts that reason every time. Part of the challenge in FM is being able to keep your squad dynamics up. The game will throw curve balls, as it should. - World Class defences IRL always concede to low xG moments. To show how frequent that is, here is yesterday's Man City vs Man Utd. Rashford goal was at what xG? Lower than 0.4 but, Man City managed to concede that goal and it being the ONLY shot on target for United. - You can accumulate a high xG if you take 30 shots. That doesn't mean that in fact you created great chances. Many people do that here - complain they had an high xG but took sooo many shots. Often, you're showing how often you create bad scoring chances. As always, you can upload your findings and not just words. Your words that just complain don't help anyone and looks like you're just taking an opportunity to criticise because others are. Some play this victim card when if they just read what they're typing, it would become obvious as to why certain comments are removed. If you want support for your criticism from others then this isn't the way to go about it.

AI use Libero in my save but we have to realise how much of a risky role it is. It potentially leaves a gap in CB. I wouldn't say the AI should be using that role often. Pep and a handful of others but IWB should be used more in general by the AI in my opinion. Because at least with IWB, they can act differently in different 4231 systems. For example, one AI coach may be using him on attack making underlapping runs. Another could actually still be using an overlap instruction with an IWB and that automatically will get the two to play differently so you're not up against the same system all the time. Even down to the roles they are using in front of the IWB. If using an IF, the IWB will behave differently when a W is in front of him. With a W, his only real option when getting forward will be to underlap. But with IF, if the IWB recognise there's no width, they will still act like a traditional FB from time to time.

Seems pretty spot-on to me. Last season in SPL, Celtic scored 114 which is more than the 92 in your game. Rangers also scored more IRL than in your save. The 12th-place team conceded 74 in your game. Dundee United conceded 70 IRL. Just looking at the two tables - I think your save actually did very well in simulating IRL results in SPL. Down to the point difference between 2nd and 3rd. Goals conceded between 2nd and 3rd is quite significant, another thing FM managed to simulate well.

You're not. Would would be the reason for using an IWB? That would've be to invert right? So lets saying you're playing a 4231, would you rather than one of your IWB to sit on top of one of your DMs? lol You must understand positional play. It's a tactical principle to help you progress, create advantages etc...It's not style of play. Essentially, you want players to take up certain positions on the pitch. But it's a system (creating 2-3-5s, 2-3-5 etc). It's not exactly a style of play. Let's say you want 2 DMs at ALL times to progress, and build in a 2-3-5, but you're using a 4-3-3. You can use a Libero or IWB to ensure you have those 2DMs. So, well yeah, you will be forced to play positional play IF that is what you want. If using a B2B, expect him to move into AM because you know, he's attempting to go from box to box. It's odd that a great thing FM introduced is also now being criticised. Imo, it's redefined roles. Made them better. When I picture my IWB, I know now the ME will replicate that. But now also they won't start bumping into each other, because that's silly. My DM will now recognise the IWB is in DM so will shift over a little bit. That is such a welcomed addition. You can soak up pressure even by using a B2B. He won't be in AM when you're defending lol but if you want to counter, he will move into AM to support your counterattacks. But, the way you have set your system up, it doesn't then mean you're implementing positional play as such because you're not exactly using it as a tool to create a certain system shape or to help you gain advantages to progress etc. You just want your B2B to support attacks. Like a CMa would. Doesn't make the system positional play

what are you talking about? I'm praying you're not an adult. Also hope you're not a role model to anyone at this moment if this is how you communicate to people.

And some people in here also need to do/be better. If you think something is broken, don't just claim "OMG THIS IS BROKEN". Be constructive, post your findings and maybe that helps SI. That is a negative about this place, imo. People find it easy to say things and not back it up. So people can just claim they're never playing it again etc etc, but that doesn't help anyone. If people like the game as much as they say they do, taking 10 minutes away from your FM playing time and posting a constructive post here can be helpful.

I've done my fair share of pointing out how the ME could improve so I'll only answer by speaking for myself. The ME is good. But, we've had a good ME for some time now and there's some frustration from me that it's not 'very good'. That sounds incredibly entitled and unappreciative given I have been playing since only commentary days. I believe the ME can represent things a lot better. Given the introduction to positional play, they too clearly saw lots of room for improvement. For me, it's not all about the highlights we get shown - someone like me watching on extended, I observe and see a lot more. - Many unforced underhit passes leading to unnecessary possession loss. - Defenders opting to not head the ball back to the keeper when he clearly can, instead opting to head it in area that'll fall straight to their attacker. Again, unforced. - Defenders/midfielders not tracking attacking runs through your channels. - Attackers freely dribble between channels unchallenged. - WCBs not defending wide areas in a 3 at the back. - Wing-backs not attacking the box when playing a 3 at the back. - Your GK ignoring your distribution instructions. - Wide players lobbing the ball in the air to central midfield when cutting inside for no reason. - Your players forcing lobbed through balls to your ST. - Many long shots (wingers/fbs drive wide, instead of crossing, they cut back, pass to someone on the edge of the box and long shot). - CB on cover, you don't see him actually dropping and sweeping up your defence line. - Rarely, if ever, see your sweeper keeper coming out of his box to sweep up balls. - They've removed the ability for your to press narrowly. - Your defenders are too easily bamboozled by throw-ins. - Not being able to press some defensive teams well enough to stop them just playing sideway passes and racking up high possession % - Woodwork being hit so often. - Final 60% of the pitch is chaos. Hence why every teams OPPDA is intense because it becomes a crazy game of football in that area. On average, only being able to string 5 passes in the opposition 60% half of the pitch (according to OPPDA data). Now these are things I've gathered from observing (there's more). And these things have been an "issue" for a couple of years at least which is where, again speaking for myself, some of the frustration comes from. These things persist but then we get added stuff like positional play which is a welcome addition by the way, but I don't ignore the previous issues. It doesn't make the game unplayable. But this is where maybe people's IRL football passion spills over. I love football and analyse it, so these things are easy to notice. Understood it's a game, but upon release, it's about "TRUER FOOTBALL MOTION, MATCH AUTHENTICITY" and when people don't feel they get that, that's adds fuel. I get people hyperbole but just me speaking from my own personal opinion, SI add fuel to the fire (maybe not realising it). But making promises such as being more open and better communication, people aren't really getting that. Then down to the features, people don't feel they're getting what was put out by them. "MOST POLISHED VERSION" is such a huge statement to make - you have to back that up (or should back that up). So, the ME is good. Deep down, we all know it's good. But I have this expectation that it should be better. That expectation is put on by SI themselves.

Well. SI. I take back EVERYTHING I've said. You've managed to bring back my hero

The point being, that nobody should be trying to convince others to change their opinion on their experience of the game. Understand that everyone plays differently. What bothers one person, the other people may not even notice. Something so big to one, is so small to the other. I think it's one reason why many play FM. They're not forced to play a certain way. Some people would still love the game to death if 3D got removed tomorrow. Me being one, but some won't be able to play without it. It's why you get some people so passionate about recruitment focus - made it hard for them to enjoy scouting. Some didn't even comment on the recruitment focus because they don't even touch it.