[Discussion] Improving International Management

[karanhsingh]

I have been playing FM for the best part of 2 decades now, and international management is a consistently overlooked part of the game. I still see a lot of people managing nations and enjoying it (I have done a lot of it too) and I am sure it would be far more popular if more thought was put into it.

Some suggestions from my end below:

- there needs to be more speculation & discussion about squad announcements

- more direct interaction with players - for example I should be able to tell a player not getting games at his club that he needs to move in order to get back into the team, etc.

- the way that players of dual nationality pick countries seems to work purely on reputation and/or ranking right now, so I have 29 and 30 year old average players still "holding out" for France rather than playing for their African team of birth

- there is no training for international mgmt. - while player development obviously would happen mainly at clubs, I believe training should be activated. We have coaches & assistants hired anyway. Should be able to re-train players (to some level) to play in different positions, and things like practice set pieces before particular games, etc.

- scouting & analysis team should be more engaged in providing feedback about how players are doing at their clubs, yes this can be manually checked but would like to see updates about which defenders are making the most clearances, who has the best xG & xA, etc.

- playing in a big tournament like a World Cup should really feel like that, currently that is just missing entirely. 

* lot more news items like golden boot & shoe odds, teams to watch out for, players to watch out for, potential upsets, etc.

* more media interaction, more player interaction - team talks barely seem to have any impact neither can you praise or criticize players for their performances

* more of a build up for the squad announcements, I would like to see players & club managers actively making a case for their inclusion

* when the actual tournament gets underway we could maybe see daily highlight reels or best goals, best games, etc.

I am sure there is a lot more that can be done, this is just off the top of my head!

[Federico]

Some point is quite redundant from my point of view, but I largely agree with your post as international management is basically not existant at the moment. I particulary miss training/resting sessions.

[karanhsingh]

11 minutes ago, Federico said:

Some point is quite redundant from my point of view, but I largely agree with your post as international management is basically not existant at the moment. I particulary miss training/resting sessions.

Yes this was just meant to be a thread starter - I am sure there are other ideas as well and some of these are more QOL improvements.

[Wisła]

Ha, how funny, you just saved me from starting the same thread. 

I don't have anywhere near as many requests on this front, but simply cannot understand how a game that prides itself on realism, and for the most part, does a very fine job in implementing it, can still, after all this time, not allow us to train our players at International level. It is quite frankly absurd. 

I never complain about anything in this game, as I think SI do an amazing job, but this is one glaring area of the game that has been crying out for attention for far too long.

International management would be perfect for me. I discovered once when testing some editor creations, that I love to just watch the game world unfolding employed without too much intervention from me, so to take on an International role would be awesome. But I've tried, and just cannot do it.

When SI finally sorted out Training in FM19, I was like a little kid on Christmas Day!  I'd been waiting since the Championship Manager days under Eidos for the ability to actually plan my own schedules again, and what they have done now is brilliant. But I've now been spoiled. Just can't get into International Management if I can't train my players.

I mean, what do SI think these guys do all day whilst on International duty -- sit around in their hotel rooms playing Football Manager, just killing time til the big game?    

I understand that International training is very different to the way things work at a full time professional club. Not geared toward improving players, as that is the Club's job, and there's simply not enough time. But we at the very least need to be able to utilise the sessions designed for Match Preparation. Preferably also some work on set pieces. This is what International training is focused upon  in real life. Forging the squad into an effective Team, and working on being fully prepared for the matches themselves, rather than individual skills. 

Anyway, enough waffle from me, I just wanted to add my voice to yours, (will plead and beg on hands and knees if it helps in any way) that this is in dire need of some SI TLC. The game will never be complete, nor completely realistic, until we can employ at least the Match Preparation sessions on International duty.

Thanks for starting the topic mate.

[Luke Hume]

Hey @karanhsingh- just changed the name of the topic to show its a discussion. 

Thanks! 

[seabas3]

Hello,

This for sure is one area I feel like SI could improve for a while now. If you don't mind I would like to elaborate a bit further on this topic. 

One point you make @karanhsingh is that a World Cup should "feel" like a World Cup. I definitely agree. With continental tournaments, in particular the Euro's and Copa America and the World Cup - the media and euphoria should be exceptional even if you do not follow the tournament via your socials. If we do manage an international team and are participating in said tournaments, I feel more could be done to make it really feel like you're participating in one of these tournaments. You know how at the end of the season we have the in-depth review sections now, maybe an opening and closing one for these tournaments? Also, especially as a manager of an international team participating in these tournaments - more media interaction, player interaction, scrutiny and questions within your club press conferences (if you manage both a club and nation) and even more questions and press conferences as an international manager should be implemented to make you really feel as if you were an international manager and have the weight of a nation on your shoulders.

I could be wrong but even when these tournaments are going on, even if you're just a club manager - they almost feel like they are in the background when in truth they should be upfront and center.

[UKFA]

I concur with all of the above, and I'd like to add that at youth level international experience could have an even greater impact on their career than club football. So it would be really interesting as an international manager how your training and tactics, although limited, could shape a new generation of players.

On 05/04/2021 at 09:28, karanhsingh said:

- playing in a big tournament like a World Cup should really feel like that, currently that is just missing entirely. 

I agree. I've been doing an African Cup of nations save, but it feels more like the premier league. I'm not sure how easy it would be to capture the feeling of that competition, or the Copa America etc, but it would be great if they could have things like banners, flares, tifos maybe.

[karanhsingh]

57 minutes ago, UKFA said:

I concur with all of the above, and I'd like to add that at youth level international experience could have an even greater impact on their career than club football. So it would be really interesting as an international manager how your training and tactics, although limited, could shape a new generation of players.

I agree. I've been doing an African Cup of nations save, but it feels more like the premier league. I'm not sure how easy it would be to capture the feeling of that competition, or the Copa America etc, but it would be great if they could have things like banners, flares, tifos maybe.

Me too, which country are you managing? I've so far been at Guinea, ivory coast and Senegal. 

[UKFA]

7 minutes ago, karanhsingh said:

Me too, which country are you managing? I've so far been at Guinea, ivory coast and Senegal. 

Ghana, my favorite AFCON nation. I just did one in FM17, now I'm going to do one in FM21. But I'll look for a few custom African leagues first

[aldojags]

Great opening post-the thing about a tournament feeling like one I totally agree with. The ideas suggested are great, some kind of feature profiling all the teams involved, star players etc, road to qualification. I am bad even in a league at paying no attention to what else is going on in my league on a week to week basis, this is despite Si doing a great job with the social media feed and weekly round up, I’ve started reading this a bit more to try and increase immersion.

 

I did a lot of international management in fm 20, haven’t yet in fm21, but I don’t remember there being detailed reports nad meeting regarding the u21/u19 teams, feel this should be a feature that’s added if not already?

[Hovis Dexter]

At the very least I would welcome improved and expanded interaction with players. This would be a significant improvement.

[duesouth]

Having jumped from playing CM03/04 off and on for many, many years - FM19 was my first FM and there wasn't much difference in international management in all that time!  Certainly, it feels like a bolt on and far from SI's usual standards, so 100% agree with the OP that improvement is needed.

For me, having managed San Marino for 46 seasons in FM19 and currently trying a FM21 save with Liechenstein, the key things are:

Improved scouting of opponents - particularly being able to hire a Performance Analyst.  There should be no other international teams where you scouts can't get you a scouting report (irl I'm pretty sure they would get at least something from online video, particularly in Europe where all games are televised/available online);

Improved scouting of your own squad/potential players for your squad is one I 100% agree with from the OP - perhaps player X has developed and is much better than player Y who is currently in the squad.  The suggested squad screen is something I tend to gloss over as there's no real context with it;

Agree with the OP again that you should be able to set your training - this would be vital in tournament play (recovery sessions and also penalties), but also to be able to build tactical familiarity early in a save/job.  I don't believe there would be time enough for individual training - but it would be nice for you to tell a player you need to improve in a certain area and have him take that back to his club (and interaction between a national team manager and club manager might also be good here);

If you leave a player out of the squad, sometimes they'll complain/ask why - I'd like to see far more options for interaction there.  Perhaps again tied to the above point about telling a player they need to improve in a specific area - and then your scout can tell you whether he has or not;

It feels like FM21 is improved in terms of player's condition, but I haven't managed in a tournament yet (and likely won't for many, many in-game years!).  From FM19, this was certainly my major issue with international management - I had to rotate in a World Cup semi-final as many were <75% condition and got stuffed;

Agree that the World Cup needs to feel more special.  I won it with San Marino and the game just treated it as any old trophy win;

The OP mentioned more media and also player interaction.  I can leave most of the media stuff particularly - but if it were put in, then make sure it's something that I can delegate.  Certainly, player interaction in terms of dual nationals was improved in FM20 - but that can still be better, and perhaps promises could be the key thing here.  For example, perhaps the player must get a promise from both the human manager and also from the AI for the game to have something to process.  So, I could say you'll be a star player for Liechtenstein from day one and perhaps Switzerland's AI manager would say you'll be in the U21's and then on the edges of the squad after that and the "player" has to make the decision with that info.  Right now it feels like you have no chance as a smaller country when a higher reputation country is involved and a very basic in-game algorithm.  Perhaps even also some interaction with a player who has just signed for a club team in your country - and specifically ask them to stay for X years to qualify to play for that national team (e.g. I've just signed a Belgian winger for FC Vaduz - perhaps be able to ask him if that would be of interest, although maybe after he's been in country for a decent period of time already, say 2-3 years).  I also think, again as the OP said, that a player who is mid-late 20's wouldn't hold out for his first choice, particularly if he hasn't developed to his full potential.  I would use Nathan Redmond as a good example - hasn't played that well in the last couple of seasons and is rumoured to be close to getting called up by Jamaica.  I suspect in game, he might well keep holding out for England, and again I suspect perhaps tied in to reputation too much;

A little thing, but as someone who has gone from managing San Marino to Liechenstein, I'd like to see more character with the stadiums.  Both stadiums are exactly the same, just a different colour paint.  Certainly, all European countries, I'd like to see more done in this area (within licensing constraints) to give greater immersion;

I'd quite like a little more control with U21/U19 teams.  I might bring someone into my squad from the U21's to cover for an injury for one round of games (or just to have a look at someone in a friendly), but then leave him out of the next squad when my injured player is back.  Often he's not in the U21 team for their next set of matches or sometimes ever again, I'd like to be able to make sure he is.  That might be make sure the AI doesn't pick an U21 squad before the full squad is announced;

One last minor thing - I'm currently running a dual manager save - me controlling FC Vaduz/Liechenstein and also FC Balzers/Liechenstein U21 - a bug prevents me from taking control of U21 friendlies, so a fix there - this was OK in FM19.

Edited June 24, 2021 by duesouth

[Mars_Blackmon]

Squad dynamics should be apart of international management as well. Building a culture leading up to the World Cup is very important.

[Fedeg23]

Managing Kosovo in my save, I know it's not much but we made it to the Euros in 2024 for the first time. It felt like a great deal to me, not so much to the FA and the game in general, and it is such a shame because these small achivements are worth a lot in international football. It is literally the pride of a whole nation. I would really love if SI use some of these suggestions karanhsingh made, there is nothing I wouldn't want more than improvements in international management.

Great thread, cheers guys!

[enigmatic]

Another things that needs fixing with international management are the volatility of reputation (the complete reset on season changeover and not having any opinion on performances until you've played five competitive games makes sense for club management but none at all for international management where it basically means an FA has no opinion at all on how you're doing the majority of the time) 

[Cid]

I'd add improvement to how the 'national pool' works. Surely virtually every Irish player would want to play for his country, and yet there seem to be some Irish players hidden to me as the national manager. If the national pool isn't just a list of every Irish player who would consider playing for Ireland, what's it actually for? It seems mad that I'd have to scout for players like a club manager.

[XaW]

How about making the biggest tournaments (World Cup and the continental of the country you are managing in? Perhaps optional for more if you have players competing in them?) kind of like the transfer deadline day? You can chose if you want to "participate", and if you don't then everything as current, but if you say "yes", then you get regular news updates and highlights you can view, and such. Of course, even more if you are actually managing in a team in it, but even if you are not, then it would be an optional "spectacle" to add immersion.

I think that would be a nice addition to make the biggest tournaments feel like the big deal it is to everyone in football.

[FMAddiction]

Also kit numbers outside of tournaments are generic and that kinda ruins the experience for me. Also, a question. Have the in-game Euro squads now changed from 23 to 26 players? Or should I edit that somewhere?

[conor4669]

On 22/06/2021 at 11:31, FMAddiction said:

Also kit numbers outside of tournaments are generic and that kinda ruins the experience for me. Also, a question. Have the in-game Euro squads now changed from 23 to 26 players? Or should I edit that somewhere?

This. 100x this. We all know for example that Sergio Ramos is 15 for Spain. Let me make him 15!!! It’s such a minor thing but I’m glad I’m not the only squad number nerd! 

[duesouth]

A couple of things to tag on:

The "Hold Team Meeting" option needs some love - right now there aren't many options and it feels even more random than some of the other interactions.  I've given up with it.

I was reading before the Euros about the prize money that teams get for qualifying and winning the tournament - and I guess that would apply to everything including the Nations League.  Given we are involved in the finances a decent amount as a club manager, it would be great to get some of this as a national team manager.  As manager of San Marino as I was in FM19 and Liechtenstein currently in FM21 it would be amazing to at least have a meeting with my FA about where prize money (or any funding from government) should be spent.  Being able to suggest increased development of grass roots football, put money into the international U19 or U16 setup etc., push money to the clubs in your country to level up their facilities, or money towards coaching badges for not only your national team coaching staff, but for promising staff of that nationality around the various leagues.  Basically any number of things that could help push up your reputation as a nation.  Where we have youth coaching, training facilities, youth facilities and youth recruitment to level up as a club manager - it would amazing to have national team equivalents to level up.

I won the World Cup with San Marino in FM19 in 2042 - but the youth intakes for San Marino Calcio with 13 Serie A titles in a row, 7 Champions League wins and maxed out facilities were still pretty poor as the San Marino League took a long time to move up.  Given the National Team had qualified for 3 European Championships, 2 World Cups and moved up in the Nations League in the save, it would be highly logical for that prize money to have been invested in football in San Marino and help drive up the standard.  It feels like now it's the clubs alone that do it and in reality it is that - but also the FA's who would help - some more than others.  Perhaps there's something behind the scenes in the game that is part of a formula - but it would be great to have some control over it and it would increase the immersion so much for long terms challenges like the San Marino Challenge.

[right_winger]

On 23/06/2021 at 23:35, conor4669 said:

This. 100x this. We all know for example that Sergio Ramos is 15 for Spain. Let me make him 15!!! It’s such a minor thing but I’m glad I’m not the only squad number nerd! 

I asked for it in the past, let's hope it was looked at and will be implemented. Shouldn't be too difficult to do, the game would just look at player's preferred number (each should have a few of those in some order but that's another story...) then at the ones they wear in their club.

Agree with pretty much everything suggested in this tread. SI don't seem to realise that for many fans international football is very important, basically outside the countries with top leagues it seems to be much more important than within them. For many people a league season is long and boring so events like Euros, World Cup or even qualifiers are more exciting than following a typical league with max 4-5 top sides, as many strugglers and everyone else in between not fighting for anything from around January.

Edited July 10, 2021 by right_winger

[McBride]

Why no individual instruction window like before before league matches?

 

ALso, who's in that squad and who isn't has always been really confusing.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by McBride

[glenjamin]

I'm a massive fan of international management and always end up splitting my time between club and international management throughout every version of the game. Just to add to or back some of the ideas above I've always wanted to see the following introduced:

* Training obviously needs to be added to help with players familiarise themselves with your tactics while also continuing with their own development. One thing I always wondered was how come during an international break a lot of players would always be tired going into the second game? Even with the group stages of a major tournament, it was nearly impossible to keep the same XI for the 3 groups games as players would have significantly lowered condition ratings. There should be an option to rest the squad or rest individual players in order for them to recover quicker. 

* There was some improvement in FM21 for the media, but not enough. More questions about player selection needs to be added along with some of the points raised above. 

* Improvements with media, particularly around a major tournament. There should be daily news to your inbox based on either the country you're from, the country you're managing in, your continental tournament, and always when a World Cup is near or during. 

* Player interaction needs to be added. Either to praise or criticise players' performances, or to give reasons to players who haven't been called up such as they're not playing enough, etc. 

* All staff should be on contracts. If I offer a physio a role with a national team, odds are he will be there until he retires. Most of them should be on the same contract length as the manager. There should also be media speculation when a manager is coming to the end of his contract, who might take over, with club managers asked for their opinions. 

* When international managers are sacked following a poor showing at a major tournament, they are always sacked on the same day. This needs to be more spontaneous and random. 

 

 

[nick1408]

What really annoys me is players switching allegiances after signing them. As an example, on my current save I signed an Australian from an Australian club to my Koln side and he switched allegiances to England straight away. Before Lyndon Dykes This hasn’t happened for an Australian since the 90’s. 
 

in my opinion; switching allegiance from a lower nation to a higher ranked nation should be extremely rare while switching from a higher ranked nation to a lower ranked nation should be easier. Maybe link it to promises a bit better. If you tell a player they’ll be in the World Cup squad then aren’t they will switch.

[Jops14]

Another thing, whats the point of an expanded squad if I have to trim it down before the pre tournament friendlies!! Every time England throw a few caps out pre tournament to players that dont make it in the squad, but in FM I have to kick 7 of them out a week before the friendlies.

 

Also, the amount of times i tell a player i dont see them playing for me and they still dont change allegiances...

[Mars_Blackmon]

I don’t remember this being a thing in the game but it would be cool to try to sway a player to declare for your country but doing the same thing you would do to get a non interested transfer target to gain interest in signing with you which is declaring interest, make enquiries about declaring and watching their games. 

[FootballHedgehog]

On 12/09/2021 at 04:56, Jops14 said:

Another thing, whats the point of an expanded squad if I have to trim it down before the pre tournament friendlies!! Every time England throw a few caps out pre tournament to players that dont make it in the squad, but in FM I have to kick 7 of them out a week before the friendlies.

 

Also, the amount of times i tell a player i dont see them playing for me and they still dont change allegiances...

From what i know, this has to do with the tournament registration windows - you have to have a cut down squad by x date, which is usually before the friendlies are scheduled. Not an SI thing, but a continental competition/FIFA thing. At least as far as I know.

[eaglesofse25]

From a club management perspective, in relation to the discussion about dual nationals, it would be nice to be able to suggest to dual nationals that they should switch allegiance to the 'weaker' country. In my current save, I have three English players with Nigerian second nationality, and realistically none of them is going to get into the England team in their career. Surely I should be able to suggest to them that they might find it fulfilling to get some international football with Nigeria? Sure, it might have some drawbacks from the club's perspective (AFCON), but it just feels a shame for good players to waste their international potential holding out for a national team that will never pick them.

[halfmanhalfgull]

I'd love an improvement of the international experience if you're NOT managing an international team: namely, if you are managing a top flight club team during a summer break - or if even you're unemployed - and there's an international tournament, and you have the trait of a "media friendly manager," it's likely that you would be employed as a studio pundit on a one off or ongoing basis. Benitez, Mourinho, Klopp (in Germany), Wenger, Martinez, etc - all do this. Even ol' Tony Pulis. The game already asks us some of our thoughts on international fixtures, but in order to properly give our thoughts there should really be an overhaul of the PR experience.

Right now, even as a manager you get the same 8-10 questions throughout the season depending on your general performance and it's really tiresome. The international experience could be improved for international managers, club managers, non-managers etc by drastically increasing the amount of realistic questions that come up in a general tournament media session (e.g. "this guy is playing great for his country, why can't he do that for his club?" "this guy is a dual national, do you agree with his choice to pick X country?" "is this the kind of player you would love to work with?"), which would then have a knock on effect on your relationship with other players/agents/managers in the game world.

Speaking to the media can be important in the game but it ends up feeling like a total waste of time since there's little variation. Improving it would of course improve everything, but the international experience might even need it the most. I would probably recommend to SI to get some actual journalists on board for the next version, which shouldn't be too hard as there are people out there like Iain Macintosh who actually used to cover England at international tournaments and are obsessed with FM.

[UKFA]

How do people feel about International management in FM22? It does feel a little more rounded out, but the improvements are incremental. That said I don't want to sound too negative,  it's still FM and I'm already enjoying my Ghana save.

[Hovis Dexter]

My top priorities would be:

o Significantly improved player interactions and dynamics;

o Introduction of training schedules particularly with regard to match preparation and tactical familiarity ... leaving individual development to the clubs;

o A method of highlighting players that you have previously called up to your squad ... perhaps by automatically putting such players in to a new shortlist. At present the only way of keeping tabs on them is by creating your own external lists;

o Introduction of performance analysts;

o feedback and analysis as to how your team and recommended players to be called up are performing for their clubs;

o clarification as to how pool members are selected ... it seems to be intended to contain anybody and everybody who is eligible to represent the country;

o perhaps a separate pool for those who are probables and possibles for inclusion in the first team

 

[Jamaicaman90]

On 07/06/2021 at 20:26, Cid said:

I'd add improvement to how the 'national pool' works. Surely virtually every Irish player would want to play for his country, and yet there seem to be some Irish players hidden to me as the national manager. If the national pool isn't just a list of every Irish player who would consider playing for Ireland, what's it actually for? It seems mad that I'd have to scout for players like a club manager.

I can think of a number of high profile examples where this is genuinely how it goes though, such as with Hal Robson-Kanu in one sense being discovered due to training room jokes, and Sam Vokes and Ashley Williams in another (Vokes not being aware of his own eligibility, while Williams being approached because they took a punt on his surname being a common Welsh one). That's three of the 2016 Euros squad that wouldn't have been called up based on what would 'automatically' be in the national pool.

It does make me wonder if secondary nationalities should be something hidden behind knowledge/scouting levels? Because unlike in the game, the real world doesn't have a list of everyone's grandparents. Higher reputational players may make their eligibility known to you/your team, but it makes sense that some high potential youngsters with a low reputation wouldn't have their eligibility known to you, even with a player search in the database.

It would make sense to me that, if you are managing a nation with a smaller talent pool, hunting down players who are eligible for your nation even if not raised there should take a bit more work on your part.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Jamaicaman90

[Carambau]

I remember a World Cup manager game that did it right, it was called "On the ball world cup edition". Good times. Maybe FM could pick some of those ideas and implement them in future games.

https://archive.org/details/cuamiga-magazine-054/page/n69/mode/2up?view=theater

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Carambau

[Wardy1011]

Small thing I'd like to see is in the Squad Depth screen, it'd be useful if it only showed players you had got called up instead of all players in your pool. It'd just make deciding a balanced squad a bit easier.

[Garethjohn79]

I would like the chace to start out as a reserve or youth manager and build follow the first team managers system .This is one thing that International Management allows that club management doesn't(unless they are in the league system at a level you can play ) and that is U21 and U19 management, but it should be with contracts given and extended based on requirements to fulfill. Or possibly you get booted out with the first team manager.

 

[benjawi.]

The main thing that needs improving as an international manager IMO is having to constantly answer questions and getting news reports on why players aren't getting called up. They haven't played in 2 years, that's why. Or they've literally played a handful of games for Real Madrid and done poorly but everyone seems to think they deserve a call up more than a striker that's playing regularly and scoring. Makes zero sense and has always ruined international management for me. "Shock as XXXX misses out". If he's not playing or even getting a decent rating, where's the shock coming from?

Player reputation counts for far too much and doesn't take into consideration their actual playing time, or how well they actually perform it seems.

[Kyle Brown]

We've got a host of changes in regards to International Management, and it hopefully won't be too long before we start to implement them.

Given the last post date in this thread, marking it as reviewed and locking. Thank you everyone.