Southgate: Episode IV - A New Hope

[TalkSport]

2 minutes ago, The_jagster said:

I still think fundamentally people would complain if Bellingham was further back.

"Need him further forward to be most effective"

"Taken his game to a new level now he's playing in a more advanced role"

By nature, of being in a side that's controlling ball, he would get forward and be effective. Like Fabian for Spain, throughout tournament he was in around the box, despite being the deeper CM with Olmo infront.

[Bigwig]

I would dispute that the system was working well until this summer. The signs have been there for ages. 

[Jorg]

I would have been fascinated to see the reaction if England had won last night.  So many people jumping on the bandwagon before the game and then totally changing their tune after the game, Rio Ferdinand being a perfect example.  He is so hard to watch!

Most fair minded football fans saw the Euros experience for England for what it was.  They were ridiculously lucky to get the final and the best team ended up winning the tournament and they happened to be the team that played the most attractive football.  England probably played 45 minutes of what I would class as attractive football and that was against the Netherlands.  Playing attractive football doesn't guarantee you results but Southgate didn't seem to have a great plan of how things could work with the players he had at his disposal, he has always struck me as being a very reactive manager and I think this tournament proved that.  The squad looked exciting at first glance but it doesn't really mean anything if you don't actually use the squad.  There were just some really bizarre decisions throughout the tournament and ultimately the luck ran out last night.

[Rob1981]

8 minutes ago, Bigwig said:

I would dispute that the system was working well until this summer. The signs have been there for ages. 

Well, not really.  We played our best football under Southgate at WC2022, even though we went out of the tournament at the earliest stage.  Then unbeaten all through 2023, including the two wins over Italy home and away.  It's only really been the back end of this last season that we tried to move Bellingham further up the pitch, and also sacrificed the likes of Rashford and Grealish running beyond Kane.  Foden was still a sub for the first five qualifiers, for instance.  In fact, he and Bellingham only started 1/8 qualifiers in the same XI.

But they are both undroppable now based on club performances... so we have had to try and find some way of accommodating both.

I don't think you can assume AN Other manager coming in is going to do much differently.  I doubt anyone is going to come in and drop Kane/Bellingham/Foden for the good of the team.  Or even necessarily move Bellingham back to a deeper position whilever he is smashing it for Real Madrid.  The next manager is still going to think that they can find a formula to get them all performing like they do for their clubs.  Just have to hope they are better at it.

[Gary_Parker]

6 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

Well, not really.  We played our best football under Southgate at WC2022, even though we went out of the tournament at the earliest stage.  Then unbeaten all through 2023, including the two wins over Italy home and away.  It's only really been the back end of this last season that we tried to move Bellingham further up the pitch, and also sacrificed the likes of Rashford and Grealish running beyond Kane.  Foden was still a sub for the first five qualifiers, for instance.  In fact, he and Bellingham only started 1/8 qualifiers in the same XI.

But they are both undroppable now based on club performances... so we have had to try and find some way of accommodating both.

I don't think you can assume AN Other manager coming in is going to do much differently.  I doubt anyone is going to come in and drop Kane/Bellingham/Foden for the good of the team.  Or even necessarily move Bellingham back to a deeper position whilever he is smashing it for Real Madrid.  The next manager is still going to think that they can find a formula to get them all performing like they do for their clubs.  Just have to hope they are better at it.

This is where England just won't learn. Spend more time trying to shoehorn players into positions or weaken other areas of the side by switching formations etc than just accepting that not everyone can play and sometimes you have to make a decision. Look at Spain with Pedri and Olmo, couldn't play both of them together so their manager decides to play one and bring the other on from the bench until injury took Pedri out of the tournament. 

For me you're dropping Foden, Bellingham is just better than him. 

 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

3 minutes ago, Gary_Parker said:

This is where England just won't learn.

It's not "England" though, it's the manager/head coach you put in charge. I guess if the FA mess up the next appointment nothing will change, but it's not inevitable.

[m_fenton]

Assuming he's done, this is how I'll remember Southgate:

• Before Southgate: WC2014, bottom of our group managing just a single point (0-0 with Costa Rica). Euro2016, out to Iceland after finishing behind Wales in our group.
• WC2018 - football came home, from the moment Kane's last gasp winner hit the back of the net against Tunisia. 6 (SIX) past Panama to mean we'd qualified with a game to spare. Penalty demons banished against Columbia.
• Euro2020(1) - Germany demons banished, battering Ukraine 4-0 in the quarters, only conceding our 1st goal to a brilliant Danish strike in the semis. Holding possession for about 15 minutes uninterrupted to see the game out. Leading in the final, before falling agonisingly short. Even then, there was Maguire's penalty and Pickford's save off Jorginho.
• WC2022 - Opening with 6 (SIX) against Iran. "Playing badly" still being enough to see off Wales 3-0, while Bellingham celebrates Foden's goal before he's even touched the ball. Another 3-0 win in the next round before falling to a fantastic France side, toe to toe. A rare penalty miss from Kane away from...?
• Euro2024 - Far too soon to know exactly how I'll remember it, but pretty sure between Bellingham's bicycle kick, another penalty shoot-out win, Watkins' winner and Palmer's equaliser, there'll be plenty of good memories.
• The future - he's left the squad in a very good place. There'll be a bit of a changing of the guard inevitably, but with a core in place and the set up off the field better than its ever been, whoever takes over will do so from a far better starting point than 2016.

[Gary_Parker]

6 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

It's not "England" though, it's the manager/head coach you put in charge. I guess if the FA mess up the next appointment nothing will change, but it's not inevitable.

Its also the pundits (most of whom have the brain capacity of a vegetable though) and a lot of fans who think they should all just be able to play and be done with it. 

[TalkSport]

10 minutes ago, Gary_Parker said:

This is where England just won't learn. Spend more time trying to shoehorn players into positions or weaken other areas of the side by switching formations etc than just accepting that not everyone can play and sometimes you have to make a decision. Look at Spain with Pedri and Olmo, couldn't play both of them together so their manager decides to play one and bring the other on from the bench until injury took Pedri out of the tournament. 

For me you're dropping Foden, Bellingham is just better than him. 

 

Depends in what roles you are asking of them.

If it's 2 8s and a 6 behind, and you want Rice as an 8, then yea, sure.

If it's more a 10 with a double pivot, one I feel Bellingham can do that anywhere as a double with Rice, but if needs must, Foden is hands down the better option there as the 10. 

I really don't think people have seen much of Bellingham at Real Madrid apart from the highlight reel of clutch goals.

[Rob1981]

15 minutes ago, Gary_Parker said:

Trying to shoehorn players into positions or weaken other areas of the side by switching formations etc rather than just accepting that not everyone can play and sometimes you have to make a decision. Look at Spain with Pedri and Olmo, couldn't play both of them together so their manager decides to play one and bring the other on from the bench

Southgate has mostly done this though pre-2024, that's the frustrating thing.  He's generally had a system and kept faith with certain players to work within it.  To the point that he's routinely criticised for being too loyal, or for ignoring players in better form for their clubs.

And now he's tried to find a winning formula using all best individual talents.

It's hardly surprise that it didn't work.  Although it is a surprise that people have already forgotten that it is how they wanted us to try and win.

[Bigwig]

Just now, Rob1981 said:

It's hardly surprise that it didn't work.  Although it is a surprise that people have already forgotten that it is how they wanted us to try and win.

You’ve said this before but that’s not the case. People wanted Southgate to be trying players in-form throughout the build-up to the tournament and not just randomly throw them in last minute.

Someone like Anthony Gordon was playing well all season and didn’t get called up until March, while he stuck with the likes of Henderson right until the last minute when he suddenly did a 180 on his philosophy. 

[arenaross]

The Henderson stuff was a bit weird in hindsight. 

[sjg11]

If I were in charge of the FA here would be my skeleton England team for the WC (obvs noting changes that need to be made for injuries/form): 

GK: Pickford

Trent, Stones, Guehi, Shaw

Rice, Mainoo, Foden

Saka, Bellingham, Gordon

Replace Southgate with Sarri

High tempo, possession based, high pressing, Trent as Inverted Wing-Back who can overlap when it’s on with Shaw as Inverted Full-Back. 
 

Could win us a tournament and at least it would be fun even if we didn’t. 

[Bigwig]

4 minutes ago, arenaross said:

The Henderson stuff was a bit weird in hindsight. 

I don’t think any hindsight was needed. He was already slowing down at Liverpool and as soon as he decided to go to Saudi that should have been the end of his England career and the time used to integrate someone else into his position. 

[Rob1981]

9 minutes ago, Bigwig said:

People wanted Southgate to be trying players in-form throughout the build-up to the tournament and not just randomly throw them in last minute.

You are aware that we don't play any internationals between November and March, right?  I'm not sure when you think the likes of Mainoo and Palmer and Gordon are racking up caps when they are only playing their way into contention in the second half of the season.  So you can take in-form players, but if they are young and they are coming in off their breakthrough season then you've got to be tactically spot on.  Because you aren't going to get much chance to work with them beforehand, and you aren't going to be able to give them much experience in other games.

But "tactically spot on" isn't how Gareth has got results in the past.

1 minute ago, Bigwig said:

He was already slowing down at Liverpool and as soon as he decided to go to Saudi that should have been the end of his England career and the time used to integrate someone else into his position. 

"Someone else"   Brilliantly non-specific.

Henderson clung on to his place because there weren't many obvious candidates pushing him very hard.  Again, we aren't busy integrating Mainoo/Wharton into Henderson's position at the point Henderson moves to Saudi, because they aren't in contention until the last few months of the season... by which time we've only got a couple of friendlies left.

[aggressive minor]

2 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

Yeah, the left back situation was weird.

But since 2022 people have wanted the likes of Maguire, Henderson, Phillips and Rashford dropped... in favour of players that were bang in form for their clubs.  So they are all dropped... great, right?  But it turns out when you aren't a brilliant tactician and you don't get that much time on the training ground... it's quite hard to magic all the better players into a winning team if they haven't got a couple of mainstays alongside them doing the donkey work.

The point is no one got the squad they wanted !

 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

3 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

"Someone else"   Brilliantly non-specific.

Henderson clung on to his place because there weren't many obvious candidates pushing him very hard.  Again, we aren't busy integrating Mainoo/Wharton into Henderson's position at the point Henderson moves to Saudi, because they aren't in contention until the last few months of the season... by which time we've only got a couple of friendlies left.

Even if Henderson hadn't blown his career up, he could get injured at any time. The lack of a plan B just extraordinary tbh.

[Bigwig]

In fairness Henderson was probably already plan B while Phillips was plan A, but that also got trashed. 

[Jorg]

51 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

Southgate has mostly done this though pre-2024, that's the frustrating thing.  He's generally had a system and kept faith with certain players to work within it.  To the point that he's routinely criticised for being too loyal, or for ignoring players in better form for their clubs.

And now he's tried to find a winning formula using all best individual talents.

It's hardly surprise that it didn't work.  Although it is a surprise that people have already forgotten that it is how they wanted us to try and win.

I think this is fair.  I haven't read all of this thread and you have probably answered this question before.  What do you think has gone wrong for him?  Do you think he has bowed to public pressure and tried to make things work using all the best players?

[Bigwig]

I think his hand has been forced by some players being injured while others’ form has nose-dived to the point that he couldn’t justify their inclusion over others who have had really good seasons. 

[GunmaN1905]

The answer is obvious to me.

It was good while he could play a basic setup with not much tactical depth because individual quality made up for lack of attacking patterns and mechanisms.
As soon as he was left without obvious options that don't include having to tinker with player roles and make them play in a certain way, quality of play got worse.

Henderson and Phillips weren't world beaters, but were solid players in their role.
So was let's say Ashley Young as a wingback or Rashford/Sterling as wide forwards.

As soon as there was a need for a manager to fix a few glaring flaws in the squad (deep playmaker, left-back), Southgate didn't know what to do...because he just doesn't know what to do.

He couldn't find the solution for those two positions and he couldn't make Foden useful because he's not a wide forward like Rashford/Sterling, but a wide playmaker.

[themadsheep2001]

There weren't many candidates apart from the absolutely brilliant CM that was Bellingham. Fact is Southgate hung to Henderson too long

[adhikapp]

3 hours ago, m_fenton said:

Immediate reactions from on here to the squad announcement, for what its worth. Say what you like about it in hindsight, but it was definitely a squad that the fans (we) were calling for overall. That doesn't mean Southgate picked the squad because fans were calling for it - but it definitely shows that he had a shift in mindset away from the "unfashionable but bloody useful" Henderson types that had been the unpopular bedrock of his success before.

Funny you're quoting me with the benefit of 'hindsight'. I loved the squad barring a few unbalance and surprising callups. What I didn't like in hindsight was despite having a squad that was wildly appreciated, he didn't utilise it enough.

He rarely made any changes to the XI despite other options he could've opted for. He didn't give a single minute to 5 players (granted 2 of them are backup GKs) and only a few minutes to Anthony Gordon. Whats the point of having a deep squad full of inform players and not using them? If he'd rather use Kalvin Phillips then by all means call up him over Adam Wharton who he didn't even let off the bench. One of Lewis Dunk or Joe Gomez' spot could've gone to an actual LB like Chilwell or Mitchell instead of shoehorning Trippier there for another 6 matches. If he can't get Foden to play well in the XI then having a fresh Foden in the 65th minute subbed in is surely scarier for the opponent? Idk, I feel like Southgate and his staff just didnt exhaust all of his options to field a winning team from the 26 players he brought.

Edited July 15 by adhikapp

[Rob1981]

27 minutes ago, Jorg said:

I think this is fair.  I haven't read all of this thread and you have probably answered this question before.  What do you think has gone wrong for him?  Do you think he has bowed to public pressure and tried to make things work using all the best players?

I wouldn't say he "bowed to public pressure" necessarily.  But he's definitely gone with form players and changes of system instead of certain players that have already done a job for him over mulitple years.  But probably he's put that pressure on himself as much as it's been put on him from outside.  I guess he WANTS to win playing brilliant football with the best available squad.  Instead of leaving some big names out and accepting he isn't sure how to reinvent a system and to get the best out of them all. 

In hindsight, probably would have been better sticking to the WC22 formation with Bellingham as an #8 and runners out wide going beyond Kane.  But if we set up like this and still lose, people are asking why Bellingham isn't further up the pitch where he smashes it for Real Madrid.  And saying that Foden should be given the freedom to cut inside so he can get more involved in the game.

[Bootador]

8 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

I wouldn't say he "bowed to public pressure" necessarily.  But he's definitely gone with form players and changes of system instead of certain players that have already done a job for him over mulitple years.  But probably he's put that pressure on himself as much as it's been put on him from outside.  I guess he WANTS to win playing brilliant football with the best available squad.  Instead of leaving some big names out and accepting he isn't sure how to reinvent a system and to get the best out of them all. 

In hindsight, probably would have been better sticking to the WC22 formation with Bellingham as an #8 and runners out wide going beyond Kane.  But if we set up like this and still lose, people are asking why Bellingham isn't further up the pitch where he smashes it for Real Madrid.  And saying that Foden should be given the freedom to cut inside so he can get more involved in the game.

You can't ultimately rely on players that did a job for you many years ago. Players decline, Sterling of 2024 isn't the same player as Sterling of 2021 for example.

That's the reality of management, time doesn't stand still.

I don't think he was wrong to do what he did, he just failed at doing it (because he's not a very good tactical manager).

I'm not convinced he does any better "sticking to what he knows" because those type of players (be it the same or an equivalent) simply aren't as good as they were then.

[arenaross]

Poch and Tuchel mentioned as well. 

 

[Bootador]

I don't really feel anything about the game yesterday, we were close.

Yeah, Spain were the better side... but we that close to extra time and then who knows? And we've known Southgate's deficiencies for years, this isn't breaking news 

[Rob1981]

5 minutes ago, Bootador said:

You can't ultimately rely on players that did a job for you many years ago. Players decline, Sterling of 2024 isn't the same player as Sterling of 2021 for example.

That's the reality of management, time doesn't stand still.

Oh yeah, totally.

He's got to evolve stuff and bring some new players through.  Can't pick the same players forever.  But you could bring through some like-for-like replacements, even if they aren't the 'best' players most in vogue at club level... then allows you to keep the overall system similar for everyone else.  Instead of that, we've pooled the best individuals at the end of the season based on club performances... then had to try and reinvent whole new ways of playing.

Maybe an elite tactician could win doing the latter, but Southgate has never been that guy. 

[Constantine]

15 minutes ago, arenaross said:

Poch and Tuchel mentioned as well. 

 

Tuchel wouldn't be the worst choice ever, actually... Master tactician, his setup would work well for England and he won't spend enough time with the players to annoy them.  

[titchuk]

The Athletic had a big feature on England and around the atmosphere of the camp, Bellingham isn't criticised as such but reading between the lines...quotes here:

 

 

[silentwars]

19 minutes ago, arenaross said:

Poch and Tuchel mentioned as well. 

 

Would Eddie Howe walk away from Newcastle? would the FA be prepared to pay the compensation? I'm expecting Potter if we make a change

[Coulthard's Jaw]

Pathetic little article imo

[titchuk]

7 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Pathetic little article imo

There's quite a lot of "we are SHOCKED that Southgate was disappointed we continually published his team selection and tactics days in advance"

[Lucas]

One thing never changes with England, we get knocked out, and the collective media, punditry and fanbase practically self immolating looking to play the blame game. 

I've been asking myself this question all day, but if we won, would these stories and the inquest be ongoing? I'm not so sure. 

FWIW think its time for Southgate to move on but the media frenzy is all a bit pathetic. 

Probably end up with somebody else and not going as far in 2026. 

[TM]

10 minutes ago, titchuk said:

The Athletic had a big feature on England and around the atmosphere of the camp, Bellingham isn't criticised as such but reading between the lines...quotes here:

 

 

the Maguire stuff is a bit more interesting, saying he'd have been fit by game 3 but Southgate said he couldn't take the risk

Guehi was one of England's best players so there's a good discovery there but Maguire might have taken the ball a bit more rather than seeing it booted away by Pickford

[eenie]

11 minutes ago, TM said:

the Maguire stuff is a bit more interesting, saying he'd have been fit by game 3 but Southgate said he couldn't take the risk

Guehi was one of England's best players so there's a good discovery there but Maguire might have taken the ball a bit more rather than seeing it booted away by Pickford

Also interesting given Shaw wasn't fit until game 5 but Southgate brought him along anyway. Although tbf England looked miles better once Shaw came in whereas Guehi didn't really put a foot wrong when he played.

[Bigwig]

Guehi made a couple of mistakes but got away with them. Said it earlier but they were the same kind Dunk got punished for.

The no left back thing was proper weird. At Newcastle we have Burn, Targett and Hall who are all English and ahead of tripper on the left and while I’m not saying they’re all international quality (hopefully Hall gets there) they would have been better picks than just not having anyone apart from Shaw.  

[TalkSport]

8 minutes ago, Bigwig said:

Guehi made a couple of mistakes but got away with them. Said it earlier but they were the same kind Dunk got punished for.

The no left back thing was proper weird. At Newcastle we have Burn, Targett and Hall who are all English and ahead of tripper on the left and while I’m not saying they’re all international quality (hopefully Hall gets there) they would have been better picks than just not having anyone apart from Shaw.  

It’s a shame Burn ****ed his back up earlier in season, because I generally think the form he was in, he would’ve got called up to England squad because of the LB situation at the time.

Played Tomori / Rico Lewis LB in the games in that international break  That one window that was slightly open gone forever now.

[Jorg]

1 hour ago, Rob1981 said:

I wouldn't say he "bowed to public pressure" necessarily.  But he's definitely gone with form players and changes of system instead of certain players that have already done a job for him over mulitple years.  But probably he's put that pressure on himself as much as it's been put on him from outside.  I guess he WANTS to win playing brilliant football with the best available squad.  Instead of leaving some big names out and accepting he isn't sure how to reinvent a system and to get the best out of them all. 

In hindsight, probably would have been better sticking to the WC22 formation with Bellingham as an #8 and runners out wide going beyond Kane.  But if we set up like this and still lose, people are asking why Bellingham isn't further up the pitch where he smashes it for Real Madrid.  And saying that Foden should be given the freedom to cut inside so he can get more involved in the game.

Yeah, I think some of the criticism of him has been unfair and you have summed it up pretty well.  If he does leave it will be very interesting to see where he goes next.

[silentwars]

9 minutes ago, Bigwig said:

Guehi made a couple of mistakes but got away with them. Said it earlier but they were the same kind Dunk got punished for.

The no left back thing was proper weird. At Newcastle we have Burn, Targett and Hall who are all English and ahead of tripper on the left and while I’m not saying they’re all international quality (hopefully Hall gets there) they would have been better picks than just not having anyone apart from Shaw.  

Burn would of been an asset for set pieces - imagine he's lethal on FM 

[Bigwig]

Nah he’s surprisingly pretty crap at them and admits it himself. Best he does is take someone away from another scorer. 

[silentwars]

3 minutes ago, Bigwig said:

Nah he’s surprisingly pretty crap at them and admits it himself. Best he does is take someone away from another scorer. 

Fair enough - I thought he'd be good with his height

[Rob1981]

10 minutes ago, Jorg said:

some of the criticism of him has been unfair

Works both ways though.  Always at the two extremes.  We could have equalised with one of those headers in the last minute and somehow ground out a win in extra time.  Then he would be a hero.  Pundits would be falling over themselves to backtrack on all their previous criticism.  And most people would be on board with extending his contract.  But we would still have played terrible football nearly all the way through.

For all the talk of performances vs results... out of his four tournaments, it is ironic that we played our best football when we went out in the quarters instead of getting to a semi final or a final.

[Rob1981]

10 minutes ago, InigoPatinkin said:

I don't think many would have been clamouring for him to stay if we'd sneaked a win after being outplayed by Spain

Dunno to be honest.  I think everyone had pretty much accepted he was moving on before the tournament started.  Then after the semi final there was suddenly a load more noise about him signing a new contract after all. 

But I think he needs to leave now, if only to move the conversation on.  I very much doubt anybody else is going to come in and do any better.  But we can't have another 2-4 years of the same hand-wringing about whether or not he's the right manager.  It's turning the whole experience into something quite draining and negative, even though we have still been getting results right up until yesterday.

He really should have won WC2022 if he wanted a fairytale ending.

[mrmeee17]

I mean there is terrible punditry all the time but surely the discerning amongst us would have known even before yesterday that it was no Southgate tactical masterclass that got us to the final.

If the players had somehow managed to sneak a win it would have been in spite of rather than because of Southgate.

[iamjerome]

yes southgate has to move on. i've been a massive apologist and defender and still think overall he's done a remarkable job. but it's time for someone else to come in and build on the culture he's developed and challenge our players to the next level.

have to say i find myself very frustrated to hear kane was actually injured  ....  it was one thing if we believed he was out of form, you can play someone into form. you can't play someone not fit into being magically recovered on the pitch. but even that i can be sympathetic because i understand oersevering with him because it takes a very brave manager to drop a player as good as kane who probably said he can play through the pain. but then where southgate deserves criticism is he did not actually build a plan around kane not being able to run to balance it out defensively and offensively like for example - argentina did with messi.

instead we:

1. still at times attempted a completely ineffective press which breaks down when you have 1 player physically unable to

2. had kane drop deep a lot which meant he could not get back in the box in time for the times saka did attack the touchline and also that opposition defences would push up to close space for our attacking midfielders

3. compounded that by not having runners beyond kane to capitalise on the opposition defence moving up

4. also we cut off the entire left flank (until shaw started in the final) so made it even easier for opposition  to contain us

so basically it meant we did the exact opposite of what every single coach talks about when trying to break down defences - opening the pitch up...we instead closed it for ourselves?? hard to see a coherent plan of attack except hoping some of players would magically produce a goal or we would chuck on enough attackers to brute force one.
the crazy thing is it got us as far as it did - and in fact even in the final we nearly equalised with those headers saved off the line at the end. if we had also miraculously won that i would have had to find a way to ask southgate to pick lottery numbers for me.

but i think this is where i'm most disappointed with southgate. previously my view was whilst obviously he was never the most tactically gifted manager i at least understood his logic. solid base midfield, kane as 9, with wingers running besides. which means you keep players like grealish on the bench and bring on to change something if needed. it wasn't adventurous but it made sense. in a sense it took bravery to resist the idea of starting grealish for example too with all the hysteria for him.

this tournament on the other hand... illogical, and for some reason he forgot the notion of keeping "stars" on the bench for the sake of balance and instead went extremely imbalanced to have big names on the pitch.

oh well what's done is done! gareth deserves a good retirement or whatever he goes onto next away from the abuse that comes with being the england manager. i'd like to see a manager come in who's been inspired by spain's approach to the last couple of international tournaments more than the ultra pragmatic french team of deschamps era.

[dafuge]

9 hours ago, InigoPatinkin said:

That's possibly the nicest thing anyone has said about Man Utd this season. 

I had no idea Spain were ranked that low!

[VP.]

3 hours ago, arenaross said:

Poch and Tuchel mentioned as well. 

 

I'd like Poch but would love Klopp.

[ceefax the cat]

No foreign manager please. It should be all our own work

[skybluedave]

If we want to get over that line and finally win a trophy... is Poch the guy?