FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[Fussballo]

Hi. I'm angry at the developers who cut out national team football. I was so upset when in a dramatic match in the 1/4th CONCACAF Gold Cup against Jamaica (I played for Canada) where my player (regen T Conn.......) was sent off in the 17th minute and where after the match was 5-5 I lost in a penalty shootout, you should have seen.... Ok, you bet on the graphics. But what happens if your main "thing" is flawed? Obviously, a drop in sales. And it's strange to bet on graphics and gameplay (this is Football Manager 2025, not Graphics Simulator 2025). So far it looks like a certain number of players will simply not buy the game/buy the game "for a tick" and won't play it, waiting for FM26.

I have a few questions:

1) Will transferring saves where you coach the national team be possible?

2) SI doesn't have closed beta tests that can be given to some people remotely, and so you have to invite people in person? Or is the point that these people can talk to the developers right away?

I agree with cutting out the "weight" column - it's inconsistent even in men, let alone women (unlike height, which has been constant since ~18 years old) and can be misleading.

[mackem10]

4 minutes ago, Lord Rowell said:

I hear what you say but it'll be more of a target if we have actual weight data and fluctuation being shown, and it'll target individual humans.
I disagree it takes away from the game, the weight stat is trivia, as is the height stat, it has zero impact on the ME. Attributes have the impact on the ME.

I would not want a community-made mod to show weight as this would defeat the point and I presume SI will try to prevent that from being possible.
Also, a little reflection on my own part, its not just women who are being body-shamed, nor is it only women who have anxiety etc. over their bodies, its an increasingly known issue among men, so maybe its a wise move to remove weight for both genders,

 

Well, we are of opposing views my Lord.

I find it an incredible thought that football manager is being influenced by the possibility of body shaming, perhaps that's just because I'm removed from it somehow, I don't know.

As for trivia and having zero impact on the ME, nor does player faces or club and competition badges but I wouldn't want to play the game without them, what they add to the game is of the utmost importance to me having an enjoyable immersive experience.

 

 

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, Fussballo said:

SI doesn't have closed beta tests that can be given to some people remotely

This has been in place in previous years and is in place for this year as well.

[pedrosantos]

Is it possible to apply for a closed beta tester position ?

[Javier]

hace 2 horas, Craigus89 dijo:

I think we all know weight is a super sensitive topic for women, and it's easier just to not show it. Pretty simple, and only the weirdest of people would actually have an issue with its removal for that reason. I would just like to know if it has an impact on the match engine.

They could have kept it for men and hide it for women.

[CamAshworth]

The "We didn't have time to implement International management" is a bit rich when they have left it untouched for years, despite fans calling for improvements year upon year.

[Raul10]

On the weight debate, it's this part that throws me. 

A very basic measurement will still be included under the hood, but it won’t be visible on the front end anymore.

If they came out and said, it had no impact, so we're removing it, that would make more sense to me. Surely it matters for something if they keep it under the hood, or is it so that skinners can make it visible again for the people who like that data? Whilst removing it for the masses.

 

[wazzaflow10]

Just now, CamAshworth said:

The "We didn't have time to implement International management" is a bit rich when they have left it untouched for years, despite fans calling for improvements year upon year.

It sounds more like they're writing the game from scratch and have taken a few steps back to hopefully take a few forward. Imagine doing all this work to end up with the same convoluted mess that sparked the idea to move to a new engine. Not everything in life is a linear path forward.

[grade]

Quote

international management will not be a playable mode in FM25, FM25 Console or FM25 Touch.

Wait... WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!? I need a paper bag... 

Before I get to that, let's start with the good news... Transparency. I like that side of SI of late... 

That is it. the rest of this blog post is all depressing to read.

Firstly, a one third of the blog is about the e-sports of Football Manager... great... what does exactly has to do with FM25? Why is in this developer's blog post in the first place? Do different blog post about it. Not here.

The most depressing part begins the removal of another feature, this time International football and a feature that hasn't been touched for years and now it isn't on par to their standards... What is exactly going on here? Why the drastic change of heart? Why now of all versions to change it? I mean you already spreading to thin with new Engine, plus with entire new side to football altogether, with women football... and you are changing now of all versions... Seriously... The correct time for that change was in FM23, with the World Cup was in November... Not in FM25... That is what surprises me the most about this blog post...

Then naming a pointless excuse how much percentage of user base use it... Can we please drop this focus on percentage and just deliver a computer simulation game, that is balance of simulating being a manager of football and fun game? If International games is a key fundamental part of universe of football, let alone of manager, it should be in it. Not excuses. Regardless... I wonder what other new feature are going to take priority over this one. If you can't deliver just maintain what you had in previous versions. We got use to it, doesn't affect our game play for one more version. The removal of it, does affect my gameplay (each person has the same or different opinion).

As for Miles saying he won't make public appearances... sorry, but don't care. I do really feel for your team, though. Probably is currently doing extra hours by this point to deliver what little features do remain in FM25.  It is good that you are remaining to help your team out (which is your job in the first place)... still the block of text about it still remains a bit condescending, specially the last paragraph... Now you care about the fan base... the community... because FM production is in trouble. You didn't care about when you killed FM Classic/Touch for PC and Mac, because what we were only (let me guess) 5.97365% of the fan base... Can't understand this guy...

Personally don't care removing weight, but it makes me scared what else might be removed attribute wise, just because whatever reasons.

For testing, not going to say much... good I guess.

 

Overall, this blog post yet again fails to do what it is meant to be. Selling FM25, not the other way around. You just giving me reasons to skip FM25 altogether, because the removal of features (some of them quite important or even key features) is going to make wait for the real game... FM26. That is the game we want to play. Not half backed game, because SI heads stretch the team too thin to make revolution instead of evolution. The fault is just on them... You just need to focus on unity engine and the UI and leave the rest alone... Why do I even bother with all of this... Seriously... not kidding.

As a final point... I find astonishing the lack of apologies this post. No sorry, no nothing. There are times, specially the Miles, poor me... has certain tone, that we fans should be the ones apologising... Like we are the ones at fault. Maybe I'm making pictures, but at this point, this game is dead on arrival for me... Unless this new Unity engine blows me out of the water.

I simply don't care at this point...

 

Edited September 4 by grade

[ScotchWhisky]

21 minutes ago, Lord Rowell said:

Wow, just wow.

a. the stereotyping here

b. as we see how women, women's football etc is spoken about on here, and I've seen in the past when people have posted about women's football as a future possibility in FM, how they've been swarmed on over with negativity, I'm not entirely surprised that women may not obviously self-identify here.
So in short - nothing to support what you have written here.

a)  No, it's statistical fact.  This is from 2017.  Look what genre rates dead last.  As someone who played Warzone religiously for two years, I can verify the FPS percentage isn't far off as you'd usually hear your opponent speaking upon death.

https://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/

b)  I think women are strong enough to where being "swarmed" on a forum isn't enough to prevent them from identifying as a woman.  You sound pretty misogynist to be honest.

Edited September 4 by ScotchWhisky
Forgot source link to photo

[DavutOzkan]

Well if you needed any more confirmation that the development of this game was a mess. 

Releasing a football game in late November is pretty ridiculous (releasing it in early November was also pretty bad to me). But now we're talking a point where the season is almost half over and it's going to be outdated right out of the box. I'm guessing the player attributes aren't going to be up to date for the release either. You're pretty much better off starting whatever you were going to do in FM 25 with a database update at this point. Hell, I wonder if I'll be able to get it for half price on Black Friday just a week after it releases! 

The head of the studio "bragging" about canceling his travel plans in an official game update blog is pretty out of touch as well. 

Edited September 4 by DavutOzkan

[WelshMourinho]

1 minute ago, wazzaflow10 said:

It sounds more like they're writing the game from scratch and have taken a few steps back to hopefully take a few forward. Imagine doing all this work to end up with the same convoluted mess that sparked the idea to move to a new engine. Not everything in life is a linear path forward.

While understandable, the optics of it are not good. Every update we've received so far has pretty much just been "we're removing this because none of you play it, we're removing this because it doesn't work properly, and we're removing this because we just can't get it sorted properly yet." There have been zero positive developments according to the development updates Miles has out out. 

I couldn't give a toss about weight going, but I don't understand the need to touch it in the first place. 

For those arguing no one looks at it so who cares? That argument goes both ways. It's just an absolutely bizarre focus for SI to take in my eyes. Just leave it as a fixed number like it has been for years and move on.

[LucasBR]

We need to consider that this year we'll have a completely new game engine. I'm no game developer, far from it, but I'm pretty sure this process isn't so simple, I wouldn't be surprised if FM 25 disappoint a little bit.

[Tony Wright 747]

27 minutes ago, Metjuw said:

..and weight is not? Just as height is a vital part of the game weight is too. Weight affects jumping reach, the player's ability to sprint hence pace, acceleration etc. It also affects stamina, how long a player can withstand playing before he gets tired or fatigued. These are all based on real issues in a football match and this is supposed to be a realistic game. I don't think a player whose 100kgs can perform the same as a player whose lets say 85kgs.

I never said that weight was not important, just that I feel that to remove height from rthe game would have a bigger impact.  Weight will still be in the game, just under the hood.  I only rarely look at a players weight, but constantly look at height, for players I am looking to buy for different poditiions, and opposing players heights when planning what tactics to use against them

[Craigus89]

10 minutes ago, Javier said:

They could have kept it for men and hide it for women.

While I agree in principle, we don't know how women will be integrated into the database etc, so there may be a technical reason why it's hidden/removed for both. We don't know. 

[RandomGuy.]

Do worry a little that they told us FM24 would be a "weak" game because they were focusing on FM25, just to find a month or so from the FM25 release they're having to remove a section of the game because it's not ready. It's probably a fairly simple thing to implement too as pretty much everything you need will already be in the game at club level?

Not 100% sure what's actually different about International management in terms of how the games works?

[RHKC]

I saw the development update had been uploaded and I was excited to read it... but what an absolute embarrassment.

 

Miles is so out of touch with the FM fan base. I sometimes wonder what goes on in his mind.

 

To remove features just to bring them back in 2026 as a 'new feature' is a joke. You can't wrap it up any other way.

 

Removing international football to concentrate on the women's game is laughably pointless. Way less people will play a women's career rather than play as an international team. 

 

But yeah, well done Miles on cancelling a holiday. Our hero!

[Javier]

At this point I'm sincerely hoping they don't announce they're cutting out the pregame editor next.

[XaW]

47 minutes ago, ScotchWhisky said:

Ok, how many women play video games compared to men?  How many play an in-depth sim that's essentially just looking through spreadsheets?  Look at the usernames here.  While they don't tell all, how many appear feminine?  Most forums with a large female base have numerous posters that are clearly feminine (even if a few are dudes).  I'd be all for the women's game being included if it didn't detract from other things.

If you knew what types of posts we mods remove here, you'd understand why no women want to appear on forums... There are some really horrible comments every time the topic of women's fotball is brought up, and we remove and infringe a lot for that, but we aren't on 100% of the time so they sometimes stay up a bit. But reading those is not fun at all, especially for someone who has a daughter who is growing up and will have to deal with it. So I applaud SI for bringing women's fotball in here, at the very least we get the trolls out in the open and can kick them off the forum so they can spend their miserable existence somewhere else.

[Javier]

hace 12 minutos, Craigus89 dijo:

While I agree in principle, we don't know how women will be integrated into the database etc, so there may be a technical reason why it's hidden/removed for both. We don't know. 

Fair enough, I guess we'll have to see.

[scythian12]

20 minutes ago, DavutOzkan said:

Well if you needed any more confirmation that the development of this game was a mess. 

Releasing a football game in ate November is pretty ridiculous (releasing it in early November was also pretty bad to me). But now we're talking a point where the season is almost half over and it's going to be outdated right out of the box. I'm guessing the player attributes aren't going to be up to date for the release either. You're pretty much better off starting whatever you were going to do in FM 25 with a database update at this point. 

The head of the studio "bragging" about canceling his travel plans in an official game update blog is pretty out of touch as well. 

The attributes will be updated, no worry, that is done by the researchers as a hobby.

[Delicate Dave]

12 minutes ago, DavutOzkan said:

Well if you needed any more confirmation that the development of this game was a mess. 

Releasing a football game in late November is pretty ridiculous (releasing it in early November was also pretty bad to me). But now we're talking a point where the season is almost half over and it's going to be outdated right out of the box. I'm guessing the player attributes aren't going to be up to date for the release either. You're pretty much better off starting whatever you were going to do in FM 25 with a database update at this point. Hell, I wonder if I'll be able to get it for half price on Black Friday just a week after it releases! 

The head of the studio "bragging" about canceling his travel plans in an official game update blog is pretty out of touch as well. 

I don't think that is fair at all.

Having worked in development I assure you it's much much better they allow more time than to rush out a product even less finished than FM24's first release. At the start of it they could only guess the problems they would have and I'm pretty sure those hoping to benefit from the move to a new model would have laid on plenty of sugar too.

As for your comments on the release date I don't see it as an issue. As it is they still hit the Christmas market but I suspect it'll slip again that will be disappointing but damaging as a) FM has a massive update base whatever time they release and that's only going to grow with the release of FM24 free (if I heard right).

I for one would wait another 3 months if when it arrived it managed to get the accounting side right.

[Novem9]

2 минуты назад, XaW сказал:

So I applaud SI for bringing women's fotball in here, at the very least we get the trolls out in the open and can kick them off the forum so they can spend their miserable existence somewhere else.

Lol so it's not even for the sake of gameplay?

[XaW]

Just now, Novem9 said:

Lol so it's not even for the sake of gameplay?

What are you on about?

[DMC-12]

I'm calling it now - FM26 will be the CM03/04 of this generation of the game. 

CM4 was good, but had loads of issues and bugs at launch that stayed with it for the whole cycle. The 2d engine was a step forward, but it felt like it could have been more (especially following from CM 01/02 which was the peak of that generation). 03/04 fixed all of that, added some more features in and was the game CM4 wanted to be at launch. 

[Os]

Was I the only one who found Nick Maddens departure disturbing?

[kandersson]

Club & country challenges (e.g. San Marino, New Zealand, Canada) have always been a huge part of how I've played this series for over 20 years now. It's going to take a major new feature to replace this for me and convince me to buy the game this year (spoiler alert: women football won't do). Oh and the weight thing is just weird.

 

[Fat_Frank8]

21 minutes ago, LucasBR said:

We need to consider that this year we'll have a completely new game engine. I'm no game developer, far from it, but I'm pretty sure this process isn't so simple, I wouldn't be surprised if FM 25 disappoint a little bit.

It’s most certainly not a completely new game engine. It’s a new graphics engine. Hopefully a significantly upgraded one. 

[Platinum]

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

You can tell Crouch from Lukaku easily by looking at the other physical attributes.

Which attributes will you use now? (Genuine question btw, Im not being facetious here)

The only one I can think of is strength? But someone like Saka is very strong but not stocky

[starbugg]

3 hours ago, Craigus89 said:

And pay all their bills and staff for the next year how?

They are a business, suggestions that they should shelve this release or sell it for half price etc are totally out of touch with reality.

Reading the thread so far, they may struggle for sales with FM25 anyway, but I'm sure they have budgeted for that.

I'm sad to say, I will probably not be prepurchasing/buying CM/FM for the first time ever, definitely will not be prepurchasing.

 

[jcafcwbb]

I guess I am kind of lucky by that announcement. I can wait another few weeks for the game. 

I have never looked at the player's weight when deciding anything so it doesn't matter to me and I have not yet done International Management.

Not bothered in the slightest by that announcement and hope they spend time making the best game ever.

I take it there has been no massive over-reaction to the blog.

[dannyo666]

3 hours ago, TopToffee said:

Here’s a novel idea - if you’re not happy - DON’T BUY IT.

It’s not “borderline disgusting”. It would be if they were putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy it. 
 

Spoiler: They're not. It has been made abundantly clear that areas of the game will be a step back to enable future leaps forward. You have been provided with the information to make your own decision. And if that info isn’t enough, there’ll be a demo, like every other year.

Well we were told all about the ""Football Manager 2024, the most complete edition of the series""" and all the new shiny features that were a mess from day 1 and never corrected....Nobodys putting guns to peoples heads but people are using there heads instead....As the old saying goes Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me..........Pure bluff from day 1 on FM24......was the final straw for lots of players,id like to see a novel idea from SI this year for sure-Please Dont announce new features that dont work.....

[starbugg]

14 minutes ago, XaW said:

........ at the very least we get the trolls out in the open and can kick them off the forum so they can spend their miserable existence somewhere else.

Spot on.

[eXistenZ]

wow the guilt trip thats been puled here. "I had to cancel travels to focus on FM"....

 

More red flags than a Stalin birthday party. As everyone who works in large organisations knows, doing a crunch is not a sign of dedication or a flex. Its a consequence of bad management

[HUNT3R]

6 minutes ago, Platinum said:

Which attributes will you use now?

Same as I did before, to judge them physically, tbh. 

Crouch had average or above average Agility, Balance and Strength, IIRC. Can 'reach' high but can be out-muscled. Lukaku was a tank. 20 Strength, 20 Balance and average Agility.

 

[kiwityke1983]

10 minutes ago, DMC-12 said:

I'm calling it now - FM26 will be the CM03/04 of this generation of the game. 

CM4 was good, but had loads of issues and bugs at launch that stayed with it for the whole cycle. The 2d engine was a step forward, but it felt like it could have been more (especially following from CM 01/02 which was the peak of that generation). 03/04 fixed all of that, added some more features in and was the game CM4 wanted to be at launch. 

CM4 is always held up as a disaster.

At the time I didn't have the internet so had no clue why the game was delayed etc or that it even was, it was a genuine surprise every year when I'd go into Game and they'd have the new CM.

I also remember absolutely loving the 2D engine at the time, it was revolutionary and really increased my immersion.

I can't imagine the meltdown these days if the game released in March!

[Lempicka]

I'm all for getting rid of the bloat but binning off international management is very poor. For a game of 'unrivalled football management' (SI's words not mine), ditching a massive part of football should be unthinkable. I hope it will still be viewable in the game though as it would be a shame not to see your players getting international call ups and playing at the World Cup Finals.

Maybe it's just my age, but is anyone else thinking, 'sod it, I'm going to re-install FM12, 16 or 17 and give 25 a miss'.

[ScotchWhisky]

18 minutes ago, XaW said:

If you knew what types of posts we mods remove here, you'd understand why no women want to appear on forums... There are some really horrible comments every time the topic of women's fotball is brought up, and we remove and infringe a lot for that, but we aren't on 100% of the time so they sometimes stay up a bit. But reading those is not fun at all, especially for someone who has a daughter who is growing up and will have to deal with it. So I applaud SI for bringing women's fotball in here, at the very least we get the trolls out in the open and can kick them off the forum so they can spend their miserable existence somewhere else.

I lived online when I was in high school 20 years ago.  I have been called every name in the book at some point or another.  Like most people online, I roll my eyes and move on.  I think modern women would he more likely to say "hey, I'm a woman and I think it should be included!"  But the fact is, women watch sports far less than men.  And even when they do, they tend to prefer men's sports.  Look at the WNBA.  Caitlin Clark has finally given it a fan base, but it's not women flocking to watch WNBA games.  It's hardcore basketball fans (mostly men) and those who think they are witnessing a once in a lifetime talent (also mostly men).

[Bahoi]

The fact that Miles promotes his lack of public showings as something worth mentioning in a Dev Blog Post for a game is everything we need to know regarding fm 25:

 

1. He is out of touch with reality; why should we care he is not attending some events?

2. Game is half baked at best, with it being touted as the next big thing since before of fm23. Hopeless;

3. If they think 5.3728_371-1% int management player base is reason to remove it, just wait until their obsession with women football proves to be 0.2626626362% player base, an astonishing failure of immense magnitude. 

[wazzaflow10]

Just now, WelshMourinho said:

While understandable, the optics of it are not good. Every update we've received so far has pretty much just been "we're removing this because none of you play it, we're removing this because it doesn't work properly, and we're removing this because we just can't get it sorted properly yet." There have been zero positive developments according to the development updates Miles has out out.

Sure I understand that sentiment. They're managing expectations well before sales come out. They want to surprises to be good things not "I pre-ordered this game but now there's no international managment! Where's my refund!". Would you rather hear the good news first or the bad news?

The game is being re-written basically from scratch and they've had to pick core features that were high priority to get done. Unfortunately that comes at the expense of well only a small number of players use this mode so we can't justify spending time on that over something that 70% of player use. That's just how it goes for development of anything.

11 minutes ago, WelshMourinho said:

I couldn't give a toss about weight going, but I don't understand the need to touch it in the first place. 

Its almost certainly about removing the game being a source for idiots to make comments about professional athletes weight. Almost in the same vein as no real player has negative personality traits. I just opened up the game and there's some correlation to weight and certain physical attributes but not enough in my opinion to justify its removal unless its either completely wrong in the game or is actually purely cosmetic. I'd be pretty shocked/disappointed if it was purely cosmetic for the entire game. I'd assume with few exceptions weight/height ratio is a key factor in determining the upper and lower bounds of a player's physical capabilities. They already do this for height with Jumping Reach. If height were taken away I'd have no idea if a player has hit their ceiling or improve JR. With weight gone who knows how strong or agile or balanced a player could be or where they fall in the scale of development.

Mason Mount in 2019 was 175cm and 57kg with pretty average PL prospect physicals. Knowing weight here would make you go well he's not going to be a big hulking player. It'd be better to train him in other areas because it's unlikely he'd ever develop his strength into anything more than below PL average. Knowing if a player is of slim, average, or muscular build is certainly instructive to youth development in my view. I don't use it as a top priority for transfers but its good to know if I want to add a truly physically dominant player. Its just part of the package of traits.

[DMC-12]

Just another thought - a huge part of women's football is the international matches. Taking away the opportunity for people to manage those sides is pretty concerning. A lot of people don't know about the club teams and who is good, or have any interest in the clubs teams, but the international teams are well known and popular and the women's game seems more biased towards that aspect. 

[ajw10]

ah so we are getting the game late with fewer features?

Feels like we are being ripped off

[XaW]

2 minutes ago, ScotchWhisky said:

I lived online when I was in high school 20 years ago.  I have been called every name in the book at some point or another.  Like most people online, I roll my eyes and move on.  I think modern women would he more likely to say "hey, I'm a woman and I think it should be included!"  But the fact is, women watch sports far less than men.  And even when they do, they tend to prefer men's sports.  Look at the WNBA.  Caitlin Clark has finally given it a fan base, but it's not women flocking to watch WNBA games.  It's hardcore basketball fans (mostly men) and those who think they are witnessing a once in a lifetime talent (also mostly men).

Not sure what your point is? I've had the same experience as you, but that doesn't mean it's ok. Should we require everyone to go through hardship and namecalling as a rite of passage to join communities such as this?

Also, women's football has increased a lot late, so I think it's fitting that it's implemented now.

[stevemc]

Feels so far that the news regarding FM25 has largely been “removals” which come across as negatives, without many positives to balance it out. Hopefully SI have something up their sleeve for the end of this month to provide the community and fan base with some positives, otherwise sales will likely take a hit for FM25, this is supposed to be one of the most exciting, anticipated times of the year of the FM cycle, awaiting so see the new features and building that excitement.

IMO the blogs are great as it’s more transparent but I feel the tone of them and some of the information being provided is encouraging a negative pile on.

I’d imagine the Beta will be more important for FM25 than any other previous FM as given this is the first of a new cycle, gamers are aware this usually comes with a whole loads of teething issues and bugs, and some people will already be standoff-ish before committing to paying up.

I’m hoping for more positivity and some additions (other than women’s football being added which I have absolutely zero interest in) before getting too downhearted but if this means playing FM24 for another year whilst some of the features are reintroduced back then so be it.

Edited September 4 by stevemc

[RandomGuy.]

5 minutes ago, wazzaflow10 said:

The game is being re-written basically from scratch and they've had to pick core features that were high priority to get done.

Any idea what International management would need, game wise, that won't be included in club management?

[Fat_Frank8]

6 minutes ago, XaW said:

Not sure what your point is? I've had the same experience as you, but that doesn't mean it's ok. Should we require everyone to go through hardship and namecalling as a rite of passage to join communities such as this?

Also, women's football has increased a lot late, so I think it's fitting that it's implemented now.

Yes, you find it fitting that women’s football which I’m guessing 999 of 1000 FM-players has zero interest in is added and at the same time you find it reasonable that weight and international management which only 5% has interest in is dropped due to low interest. I don’t think anyone has managed to miss that but it’s hard to take seriously.

Edited September 4 by Fat_Frank8

[jimbo22]

3 minutes ago, XaW said:

Also, women's football has increased a lot late, so I think it's fitting that it's implemented now.

Lets be honest here... the size of user base for this will be minimal, there's no two ways about it. People can talk anyway they want about womens football. FMs main user base doesnt and wont care about it. It will be played by a small percentage and will be messed around with a couple of times by a little bit more. Thats it. 

The main focus of the FM series is the mens game and the implementation of the womans game shouldnt have had any impact on it whatsoever, from the outside looking in (without proper info from SI) thats exactly how it looks. New engine and Premier League license apart we have nothing else to go on. We now know more about plans that Miles has canceled than we do about new features on FM25.

[Craigus89]

5 minutes ago, Fat_Frank8 said:

Yes, you find it fitting that women’s football which I’m guessing 999 of 1000 FM-players has zero interest in is added and at the same time you find it reasonable that weight and international management which only 5% has interest in is dropped due to low interest. I don’t think anyone has managed to miss that but it’s hard to take seriously.

Got a source for those numbers, or just pulling stuff out of your arse? 

Whose to say the game won’t start attracting female players if it now features the people who they watch/look up to/dream of being when they’re older?

The general attitude on display by many of the posters here, while not surprising, is absolutely ****1ng embarrassing. 

Edited September 4 by Craigus89

[LucasBR]

9 minutes ago, XaW said:

Also, women's football has increased a lot late, so I think it's fitting that it's implemented now.

In a certain way, yes. 

But bringing this to a game that is pretty much only played by the male audience can be a big mistake, specially if this somehow disturb the game development.

[xOGxTerror]

Just now, Craigus89 said:

Got a source for those numbers, or just pulling stuff out of your arse? 

Who’s to say the game won’t start attracting female players if it now features the people who they watch/look up to/dream or being when they’re older?

What a dumb reason to defend something. They shouldn’t fix features in the game to make them work right for current players- they should add a new mode with the chance it’ll attract new players! 
 

how about fixing issues which have been in the game for years and rewarding your core fans for sticking around. Instead of binning off already existing features to add something that 1% of the player population may play at some point.