FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[Domoboy23]

23 minutes ago, DP said:

So, no ‘introduction to women’s football’ today then and the roadmap has been officially scrapped?

It was confirmed in the statement from SI yesterday that first roadmap feature reveal has now moved to January.

Edited Friday at 13:59 by Domoboy23

[tezcatlipoca665]

Can somebody provide evidence that the inclusion of women's football is the reason for the delay of this release? There are many confident assertions that's the case here, so there must be an official statement or something.

[Zoolok42]

Just now, tezcatlipoca665 said:

Can somebody provide evidence that the inclusion of women's football is the reason for the delay of this release? There are many confident assertions that's the case here, so there must be an official statement or something.

There is no official statement, and I'm pretty sure there never will be one, but the consequence of that is people speculating and arguing over what happened.

[Novem9]

11 минут назад, ds_61_1 сказал:

There seems to be a heavy push from some posters in this thread to label any criticism aimed at the game as being due to a perceived backlash against women's football being included. This is very disingenuous and more often than not is starting to come off as trying to bait people into arguements.
 

The desire to appear progressive drives their behavior. I find it funny to watch, because often this behavior is just following a trend. The agenda will change, and the weathervanes will follow the new direction.

In the meantime, they are again and again provoking people into a discussion that has already exhausted itself.

[DP]

9 minutes ago, tezcatlipoca665 said:

Can somebody provide evidence that the inclusion of women's football is the reason for the delay of this release? There are many confident assertions that's the case here, so there must be an official statement or something.

There are also just as many confident assertions that it isn’t. People are picking their side and sticking to it, as usual with tribal internet arguments. 

The fact is we don’t actually know but it’s not out of the question that an aggregation of things has led to the delay, including the introduction of women’s football. 

Edited Friday at 14:09 by DP

[CamAshworth]

Surely the addition of the women's game being added wont have had much effect on the game getting delayed. 

Will that not just be the equivalent of adding new leagues to the game like they have done for many years.

Obvs additional motion capture etc will be needed but I would have thought with the new engine that would be being done in advance anyway.

As always I am not a game developer so I am just speculating.

[gunner86]

2 minutes ago, CamAshworth said:

Surely the addition of the women's game being added wont have had much effect on the game getting delayed. 

Will that not just be the equivalent of adding new leagues to the game like they have done for many years.

Obvs additional motion capture etc will be needed but I would have thought with the new engine that would be being done in advance anyway.

As always I am not a game developer so I am just speculating.

Until we get to see the features for women’s football we won’t really be able to draw any kind of conclusions. In its simplest form, yeah, you’re probably right, but there could be a need for a separate ME, the financial models are different, the economics are different. At this point, who knows what it’s gonna look like, how much work has gone in, and how much resource that’s required

[DavutOzkan]

They should also use this delay to come up with a better looking logo. 

[SlobaFMB]

People, a complete cancellation of FM25 is not realistic, nor should it be advocated. We're all a bit angry and disappointed, but the sale of the game keeps jobs and helps its further development. And yes, I will buy it. I believe it's important to support the team that has worked hard and continues to do so.

[Rodrigogc]

21 minutos atrás, SlobaFMB disse:

People, a complete cancellation of FM25 is not realistic, nor should it be advocated. We're all a bit angry and disappointed, but the sale of the game keeps jobs and helps its further development. And yes, I will buy it. I believe it's important to support the team that has worked hard and continues to do so.

Isn't there a better support than the sales record over the last few years ? The company has been pretty supported by its fanbase, Miles been boasting about sales year after year. Meanwhile, the game has been decreasing in quality for those who look deep instead of just playing it casually. I'm sure the development team is working hard, but if you want your product to keep selling you'd better also deliver a quality product that lives up to the hype. Criticism should exist and companies should embrace them instead of ignoring. 

As long as people keep buying the game, they should have the right to complain whenever they feel like, and SI has been giving us reasons to complain about. I feel they are creating problems for themselves because this delay is going to have a knock-on effect in FM26 and so on, and now we are going to really see if they are able to come up with solutions instead of just postponing issues like they've been doing for years, that being corroborated by them admiting that some features are useless in the game, taking them out.

Edited Friday at 14:54 by Rodrigogc

[andu1]

The only problem i have is that we are left with an absolute joke of a set piece ME which is 24... The throw-ins are a joke.. Really horrenduous.. i think i will install 23

[AllyJoseph]

For the financials looking poor, they should have branched out 20+ years ago and had a whole franchise of sports management sims.

FM was a great template to plug in other attributes. Other sports were ripe for plucking, cricket, baseball, F1 have all had successful management games. Money on the table there.

Also, they spent way too long refusing to make the game "current" gen. They left an entire generation of gamers on the table. Not to mention console owners.

I cant really think of an innovation worthy move in 10 years or so? It all feels so stagnant. Which is why this version was so important. But honestly, they've needed an upgrade for years and refused to. Leading to this.

[talhak]

1 hour ago, DavutOzkan said:

They should also use this delay to come up with a better looking logo. 

I do not think it is going to be changed for a while, as they've already invested in it. An example is given below from Brighton's dugout:

 

[Novem9]

16 минут назад, SlobaFMB сказал:

People, a complete cancellation of FM25 is not realistic, nor should it be advocated. We're all a bit angry and disappointed, but the sale of the game keeps jobs and helps its further development. And yes, I will buy it. I believe it's important to support the team that has worked hard and continues to do so.

Everyone decides for themselves, of course. Personally, I lost the desire to advanced support a couple of years ago. In addition, SI has Sega, which can support its asset. Or sell it to a more ambitious and large publisher, if desired.

Miles himself has said many times that they are not an independent studio, but a property of Sega.

I didn't collect this posts, but it's easy to search by keyword 'sega' in X

[ajw10]

4 hours ago, davehanson said:

Again, they are really bad points you make. If they introduce sim-like features and a stadium creator and it caused a 4 months delay - there would be the same reaction as now. Why? Because only a very small % of people would want those things. 

And you are right - Unity will be the biggest and probably only factor here that has caused this delay, But your points don't help your argument.

interesting that you cannot see how people will feel the game is out of date after a few months of playing it, but can see this. Very, very interesting

[autohoratio]

15 minutes ago, talhak said:

I do not think it is going to be changed for a while, as they've already invested in it. An example is given below from Brighton's dugout:

 

Yeah, I don't think that volleyball logo is going to grow on me anytime soon...

[ajw10]

4 hours ago, silentwars said:

Would you and others have requested it if you knew the chaos it would cause though? I suspect not. 

I don't think anyone's got an issue with the women's game been introduced, but they should only announce it when they have the capablity to put it into the game without causing this disruption. 

loads of people have a problem with it. This forum is full of it

[latrell]

Just here to check that yesterday was for real and it was not some bad dream i had. 

[flogside]

1 hour ago, DavutOzkan said:

They should also use this delay to come up with a better looking logo. 

You mean, the volleyball walnut thing isn't great ....... 😁👍

[Weller1980]

21 hours ago, ajw10 said:

do you think if they cancel FM25 then there will be an FM26?

Yes, why not? Surly Sega can fund SI for a year, they regularly say FM sells very well so they must have some credit?

With some foresight knowing that this was going to be tricky development year they could've sold a ME upgrade and Database for £10/15. I know this is never going to happen now but surly these were options.

And now the whole development/release schedule is forever out of sync, they aren't going to release FM26 in Oct/Nov 25 - FM25 should of been skipped. Anyway I never liked the Oct/Nov release, I think a release in sync with the start of the football season would be better.

[Scottmac83]

1 hour ago, AllyJoseph said:

For the financials looking poor, they should have branched out 20+ years ago and had a whole franchise of sports management sims.

FM was a great template to plug in other attributes. Other sports were ripe for plucking, cricket, baseball, F1 have all had successful management games. Money on the table there.

Also, they spent way too long refusing to make the game "current" gen. They left an entire generation of gamers on the table. Not to mention console owners.

I cant really think of an innovation worthy move in 10 years or so? It all feels so stagnant. Which is why this version was so important. But honestly, they've needed an upgrade for years and refused to. Leading to this.

As I recall they did branch out. Think it was ice hockey and it didn't work. Cost them a fair bit of cash.

[XaW]

2 hours ago, ds_61_1 said:

There seems to be a heavy push from some posters in this thread to label any criticism aimed at the game as being due to a perceived backlash against women's football being included. This is very disingenuous, and it is starting to come off as trying to bait people into arguments.

When I see replies as this, I honestly wish I could show you what we have removed from this and several other threads. I've lost the count of the horrible misogynistic posts that has been posted in here by seemingly normal users otherwise. And some of these have been posted for a bit before mods have could taken action and has been seen by other people who are rightly reacting to it.

If you see this thread, there is not much pushback from anyone regarding the marketing for FM25, the backlash against the delay in general, and very few people defending here, other than perhaps showing understanding for how IT projects sometimes fail deadlines. Most of the pushback has been towards those who have, wrongly, claimed that women's football is the issue for the delay. It seems, to me at least, clear that the issue is the transfer to Unity that is the cause for the delay. Now, this is how I read it, I don't have any inside info, but the wording in the various posts by SI hints quite clearly towards it in my view. So any rage against the delay should be routed towards the switch to Unity, but there are very little focus in that direction, and it's instead going towards the inclusion of women's football.

Of course, many don't care about women's football, and they are free to do so. I don't care much about it, but I'd love to give the leagues a go. I don't care much for Welsh 2nd tier football either, but I'm having a fun save there now with Cardiff Dracs. I don't care a second about over half the leagues in the game with strange rules, team, and players, and I doubt anyone cares in details for every league added, but there is not much pushback to narrow the leagues in game to focus on other areas?

Then I hear "But they are taking resources away for other parts to do women's football". But that's not true either. SI have been quite clear before about building a completely new team to do women's football, so no resources were taken away from the Unity switch either. So it makes no sense to give the blame for everything that has happened to women's football, but still people are using the inclusion of it as a stick to beat SI with?

It's like a never ending barrage of paper tigers being created to tear them down and the evil behind it is women's football every time. If you were strongly against the MLS and the whole draft system and designated player, and the rest of the rules there, then fine, you have a history of complaining about things you don't want to play and have a real claim to the "resource"-argument. But otherwise, it's hard to see it as anything other than an agenda towards the inclusion of women's football as a principle, not a real complaint. And if you are against women's football in FM on principle, then you have a real problem giving an explanation that is not based on some form of misogyny, and I've yet to see one.

Anyway, feel free to complain and be disappointed, I think everyone who cares about this game series is, but the reason is not women's football, and it should not get the blame.

[Delicate Dave]

3 hours ago, ds_61_1 said:

There seems to be a heavy push from some posters in this thread to label any criticism aimed at the game as being due to a perceived backlash against women's football being included. This is very disingenuous, and it is starting to come off as trying to bait people into arguments.

That's exactly what 20% are here for, 50% don't post at all, 20% come for info and another 10% for some kind of sensible discussion on matters they care enough about. I suggested a while ago this thread should be locked till March, that's wasn't a joke, the mods are doing reasonable well to keep up ( I drop in and out reading a few posts only) with it but one baiting post can spawn 100s of replies. I've not been here that long but I've seen plenty of losers I would kick off in a instant because they bring nothing here, they just take and annoy.

[paddypower]

7 minutes ago, XaW said:

...

There's no doubt misogyny is playing a large part in this.

However I feel like you're glossing over things. It HAS to have had an impact. You say there's a dedicate team handling it so there can't be an impact - but you can assign that team to work on another feature. So there IS an opportunity cost here whether anyone likes it or not.

And I should point out it goes both ways too. SI didn't have to make the Unity upgrade come in this version. FM25 could have been the standard game with Womans football as the headline feature. 

There's a saying in software development - 'Stop starting, and start finishing'. It's a classic problem in software teams where we all bounce around and want to do absolutely everything. But the product suffers for that. You need to be focused on one big thing at a time. You finish that before you start another headline feature. 

I actually think this has been SI's main problem for years. And it is finally come home to roost now.

[Just-Wool]

Disappointing news, but as someone in software development who's had my fair share of delays brought about by migrating to new tech and the ramifications that brings about sometimes I empathise. 

Next month marks the delivery of a project to replace our old tech with something more modern to one of our clients. We were supposed to deliver it in June. 

[ds_61_1]

Just now, Delicate Dave said:

That's exactly what 20% are here for, 50% don't post at all, 20% come for info and another 10% for some kind of sensible discussion on matters they care enough about. I suggested a while ago this thread should be locked till March, that's wasn't a joke, the mods are doing reasonable well to keep up ( I drop in and out reading a few posts only) with it but one baiting post can spawn 100s of replies. I've not been here that long but I've seen plenty of losers I would kick off in a instant because they bring nothing here, they just take and annoy.

I quite agree. It should be locked. I'm not quite sure why @XaW felt it necessary to direct their anger at me. I've said nothing for nor against the inclusion of Women's football. It is neither here nor there for me. My post was a casual observation of what I was seeing. If the mods are removing misogynistic posts at the rate they are claiming thats great. However it then leaves a multitude of posts saying "everyone is saying its because of Women's football" which we clearly can't see.

[grade]

After all of this, read the statement and hold and behold a word I rarely see SI use.

SORRY

Was that too hard to say? Now for my dream to be complete it needed to be written at the bottom signed Miles.

Kidding aside. I hope SI do deliver us the game promise in March (maybe with some of the removed features in it, but I doubt it, those definitely will be on hold to be selling points for FM26), and do proper announcement with gameplay. I would even suggest making some Dev diaries like they are doing for Planet Coaster 2 and Civilization 7.

You don't need something big. A good camera and set microphones, some okay lightning and get two devs to play the game and show us the game. What has been added, how to do stuff, what gains do we have. Do a 20-minute video of that for each key feature of FM25. You have already a roadmap, do that.

Even if a bug shows up in the video, that is okay in my book, it only shows how difficult this whole process was/is.

Hype the game back up. But keep it honest if the game isn't perfect, say so. Be honest about it. Customers are going to love you for it.

The first thing to do (if it is legally possible), is to have Miles, do a video (no text, as it feels too impersonal, and have several open onions around him, so he can cry a little or at least have watery eyes ), telling people how sorry for this delay and then remove the onions and with a huge smile, announce a new release a database for FM24 with the last summer transfers (for free or paid, don't care which). Then build from there.

But do NOT, do what you did in the last couple of months, especially releasing the pre-orders, without any gameplay footage (those screenshots are screenshots, they look like mockups). Shows us some meat, show us this game exists and it is not a myth.

No text. Video. I prefer to see Miles (despite not liking him) or anyone else and talk about the features. Even if you don't do a gameplay showcase, do a 10-minute video. Doesn't need to be on a football pitch. Do it in-house, Do it in Miles's office. Do it in the studio.

Edited Friday at 17:28 by grade

[Just-Wool]

4 minutes ago, paddypower said:

There's no doubt misogyny is playing a large part in this.

However I feel like you're glossing over things. It HAS to have had an impact. You say there's a dedicate team handling it so there can't be an impact - but you can assign that team to work on another feature. So there IS an opportunity cost here whether anyone likes it or not.

And I should point out it goes both ways too. SI didn't have to make the Unity upgrade come in this version. FM25 could have been the standard game with Womans football as the headline feature. 

There's a saying in software development - 'Stop starting, and start finishing'. It's a classic problem in software teams where we all bounce around and want to do absolutely everything. But the product suffers for that. You need to be focused on one big thing at a time. You finish that before you start another headline feature. 

I actually think this has been SI's main problem for years. And it is finally come home to roost now.

Agile teams and specialities though ain't it?

The women's team aren't necessarily gonna be able to help with the UI team or something like that, they might not have any Unity experience or experience in middleware in general. 

[XaW]

3 minutes ago, paddypower said:

There's no doubt misogyny is playing a large part in this.

However I feel like you're glossing over things. It HAS to have had an impact. You say there's a dedicate team handling it so there can't be an impact - but you can assign that team to work on another feature. So there IS an opportunity cost here whether anyone likes it or not.

And I should point out it goes both ways too. SI didn't have to make the Unity upgrade come in this version. FM25 could have been the standard game with Womans football as the headline feature. 

There's a saying in software development - 'Stop starting, and start finishing'. It's a classic problem in software teams where we all bounce around and want to do absolutely everything. But the product suffers for that. You need to be focused on one big thing at a time. You finish that before you start another headline feature. 

I actually think this has been SI's main problem for years. And it is finally come home to roost now.

Of course, people should and could be critical to this, but it's where the anger is directed that I have problem with.

1 minute ago, ds_61_1 said:

I quite agree. It should be locked. I'm not quite sure why @XaW felt it necessary to direct their anger at me. I've said nothing for nor against the inclusion of Women's football. It is neither here nor there for me. My post was a casual observation of what I was seeing. If the mods are removing misogynistic posts at the rate they are claiming thats great. However it then leaves a multitude of posts saying "everyone is saying its because of Women's football" which we clearly can't see.

No anger in my post, if if came across as such, then I'm sorry, tone can be hard to get through in writing only. It was more an attempt at explaining why it saddens me to see the misdirected criticism. And to be clear, only the first paragraph was directed to you alone, the rest was a general explanation as to why people react to others trying to blame women's football for what has happened.

And yes, there have been many direct posts pointing to it, and many have been removed due to unfiltered misogyny, but if you go back through the last 10 pages or so, I'm sure you will find plenty of examples mentioning women's football as the reason still.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

8 minutes ago, paddypower said:

There's no doubt misogyny is playing a large part in this.

I think Women's Football should be in the game but I definitely think it should have been put off another year based on the evidence so far.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

Women's football or not. SI still opened preorders with an implausible release date. No point arguing about individual features.

[Delicate Dave]

17 minutes ago, ds_61_1 said:

I quite agree. It should be locked. I'm not quite sure why @XaW felt it necessary to direct their anger at me. I've said nothing for nor against the inclusion of Women's football. It is neither here nor there for me. My post was a casual observation of what I was seeing. If the mods are removing misogynistic posts at the rate they are claiming thats great. However it then leaves a multitude of posts saying "everyone is saying its because of Women's football" which we clearly can't see.

I wouldn't call it misogyny, I think labels are easy to use when all we are seeing is a lack of education in a era when some men find it hard to distinguish between an "influencer's" comment for  monetary gain and their own reasoned thought process. They seem to simply parrot things out thinking most agree & it'll be popular. News folks it's not. Think for yourself, have you own reasons and be will to argue your corner accepting others might have ideas you can learn from and become a better you not a fake someone else.

Edited Friday at 17:39 by Delicate Dave
Clarity

[davehanson]

1 hour ago, ajw10 said:

interesting that you cannot see how people will feel the game is out of date after a few months of playing it, but can see this. Very, very interesting

Again, the game is out of date the moment you press continue - can you not see that?

But, if you want to get 'real life' with it the game is out of date usually 6 months after release. This version will be out of date 2 months after release - I can see the point. But, you know what - those that are worried about that sort of thing will do as they always have done - download an unofficial update that is provided by the wonderful modding community - free of charge. So what have 'you' lost out on?

 

And, if you want to make a point don't be sarcastic with it - just come out and say something. I'm not sure what exactly you find interesting, but just spell it out. 

Edited Friday at 18:06 by davehanson

[janrzm]

3 hours ago, DavutOzkan said:

They should also use this delay to come up with a better looking logo. 

Maybe they will as this one is now intrinsically linked with delays and bad press. I suggest replacing it with the laughing emoji.

[Weasek]

1 hour ago, HighFlyingDwarf said:

I think Women's Football should be in the game but I definitely think it should have been put off another year based on the evidence so far.

Completely agree they should defo add womans football but should of got the core game right first put all there manpower and resources into that first.that team could of been put on the main game instead 

Edited Friday at 18:36 by Weasek

[HUNT3R]

Just a reminder that it's understandable that people will be upset etc, but personal attacks and attacking devs isn't on. Have had to remove a couple of really unnecessary comments.

[TownForThePrem!]

2 hours ago, paddypower said:

There's no doubt misogyny is playing a large part in this.

However I feel like you're glossing over things. It HAS to have had an impact. You say there's a dedicate team handling it so there can't be an impact - but you can assign that team to work on another feature. So there IS an opportunity cost here whether anyone likes it or not.

And I should point out it goes both ways too. SI didn't have to make the Unity upgrade come in this version. FM25 could have been the standard game with Womans football as the headline feature. 

 

The largest part of that new team is researchers, exactly the same as for the men's game. So no, you can't really pull resource from there to help you work on other features. SI have also expanded massively over the last decade in all areas of the company, so I just never understand when people say Women's Football has diverted resources and caused the delay.

On your second point, I agree, both didn't have to be the same year. A more ideal scenario now would have been FM25 launching on the same codebase as FM24 but with the addition of Women's Football, FM26 then being the Unity game. But it's clear that they have miscalculated how complicated the switch to Unity would be, so here we are.

Everyone is shouting "Cancel FM25 and focus on FM26!" As many have outlined, that is simply not possible for SEGA/SI, but a good question will be whether FM26 can possibly launch in their usual release window. Surely not?

Edited Friday at 19:31 by TownForThePrem!

[BJG123]

5 hours ago, tezcatlipoca665 said:

Can somebody provide evidence that the inclusion of women's football is the reason for the delay of this release? There are many confident assertions that's the case here, so there must be an official statement or something.

I'm sure there are lots of reasons, but they have obviously struggled with the Unity move, and they hired a whole team to work on women's football. I know hindsight is 20/20, but that feels like a bad allocation of resources given what's happened. 

[angelo994]

The delay will 100% have to do with the move to the Unity engine and the match engine. The the very fact that we have seen no gameplay footage, zero, not even a screenshot seems too obvious to me. 

[BJG123]

12 minutes ago, TownForThePrem! said:

The largest part of that new team is researchers, exactly the same as for the men's game. So no, you can't really pull resource from there to help you work on other features. SI have also expanded massively over the last decade in all areas of the company, so I just never understand when people say Women's Football has diverted resources and caused the delay.

 

But if you chose to allocate funding to ensuring a smooth transition to Unity ahead of women's football, you wouldn't hire the same people. 

 

I run large software product teams, if I hire a bunch of data scientists to improve our machine learning capabilities at the expense of cloud architects and our fundamental infrastructure falls over as a result, that's on me and I made a bad decision to focus on something new ahead of fixing fundamentals. It's not that I put the data scientists on the wrong project, its that I messed up allocating budgets. 

[Weasek]

Exactly unless they are all working for free it's resources that could of been invested in the main game to get that ready to go before adding womans football.hired more people to do that  or just use the resources to do that.i don't see how it couldn't of not impacted the game in somehow that's just ridiculous.

[TownForThePrem!]

4 minutes ago, BJG123 said:

But if you chose to allocate funding to ensuring a smooth transition to Unity ahead of women's football, you wouldn't hire the same people. 

 

I run large software product teams, if I hire a bunch of data scientists to improve our machine learning capabilities at the expense of cloud architects and our fundamental infrastructure falls over as a result, that's on me and I made a bad decision to focus on something new ahead of fixing fundamentals. It's not that I put the data scientists on the wrong project, its that I messed up allocating budgets. 

If you think SI didn't hire people either with knowledge of Unity or specifically people to help with the Unity transition, in favour of hiring a team to build a women's database, then I have a bridge to sell you. 

[nunch98]

On 10/10/2024 at 17:55, jimbo22 said:

Pretty ****** way to look at things. Because you dont find it interesting doesnt mean its not. You likely watch a ton of stuff people couldnt be arsed with. 

Found benjis secret account 

[SkyNoudyo]

It surprises me the inclusion of women’s football is such a large talking point. As if that’s what is causing the delay and not having to create an entirely new user interface using a completely new engine.

[getthetowelout]

what am i coing to do for the next 5 months now i am actually gutted about this delay

 

[Weasek]

Miles himself said it will cost millions to add it to the game(womans football) in the blog about it years ago.and minimal return so I just don't understand why spend all that money until the main game is sorted.thats alot of money for s.i.like I said  I have absolutely no problem with it being added I think it should be but in time.i am just annoyed as was looking forward to getting my hands on fm 25

Edited Friday at 20:25 by Weasek

[qwerty22]

10 minutes ago, SkyNoudyo said:

It surprises me the inclusion of women’s football is such a large talking point. As if that’s what is causing the delay and not having to create an entirely new user interface using a completely new engine.

 

Because SI themselves complained about how difficult it was to add women's football prior to FM 24 and blamed it on the poor support we got and unfixed bugs.

 

Is there hope of keeping international football after the delay because they also said they'll need more time to get it right?

Edited Friday at 20:21 by qwerty22

[samrnpage]

At the end of the day, if you're not misogynistic, the inclusion of women's football doesn't bother you.

If you find yourself upset by the inclusion of women's football, it’s genuinely a character issue.

Nothing about the current situation that Sports Interactive, SEGA, and FM25 find themselves in has been caused by women’s football being added in. However, because of your misogyny, you want others to believe that it has—and you start spreading misinformation about it taking resources to validate your views.

More people will likely play the Women’s leagues than some of the leagues already in the database, and Sports Interactive even created a whole new department for it. These two points alone invalidate nearly every argument made against it.

I can guarantee that every argument posted by these misogynistic butthurt snowflakes against adding women to the game has already been countered and debunked in these threads.

I know someone whose daughter is incredibly excited about the chance to manage the Arsenal women’s team, as she’s part of the youth setup there. How dare anyone suggest we should deny that opportunity just because she happens to be female.

There isn’t a single valid reason why women’s football shouldn’t be part of the most realistic and comprehensive football simulation game in the world. 

Finally, I believe the moderators should make a post clearly explaining this stance on the subject and nip it in the bud

Women's inclusion in the game is not a debatable subject and It's not a subject we should be debating on these threads. Its just nice people telling hateful snowflakes to shut up and stop spreading hate and misinformation. 

 

[madeirabhoy]

5 minutes ago, samrnpage said:

At the end of the day, if you're not misogynistic, the inclusion of women's football doesn't bother you.

If you find yourself upset by the inclusion of women's football, it’s genuinely a character issue.

Nothing about the current situation that Sports Interactive, SEGA, and FM25 find themselves in has been caused by women’s football being added in. However, because of your misogyny, you want others to believe that it has—and you start spreading misinformation about it taking resources to validate your views.

More people will likely play the Women’s leagues than some of the leagues already in the database, and Sports Interactive even created a whole new department for it. These two points alone invalidate nearly every argument made against it.

I can guarantee that every argument posted by these misogynistic butthurt snowflakes against adding women to the game has already been countered and debunked in these threads.

I know someone whose daughter is incredibly excited about the chance to manage the Arsenal women’s team, as she’s part of the youth setup there. How dare anyone suggest we should deny that opportunity just because she happens to be female.

There isn’t a single valid reason why women’s football shouldn’t be part of the most realistic and comprehensive football simulation game in the world. 

Finally, I believe the moderators should make a post clearly explaining this stance on the subject and nip it in the bud

Women's inclusion in the game is not a debatable subject and It's not a subject we should be debating on these threads. Its just nice people telling hateful snowflakes to shut up and stop spreading hate and misinformation. 

 

sort of torn about your post. because I say this as someone who watches my local women's football team (Maritimo Femininos) every home game (and away games on tv) that doesnt clash with the mens team, and thinks women's football is a good idea to be added, and also I highly doubt thats a big reason for the game being late. 

 

But despite agreeing on those fundamental points, personally cant speak for anyone else, but imho your post was a bit aggressive, with the bold underline, and the anyone who disagrees with me is a mysoginist attitude. its entirely acceptable to speculate about what's delayed the game, its entirely acceptable imho to have an opinion whether the women's game should be added to the game (I think it should). I don't think you have a right to tell people what they should be discussing and I think you should be a little less aggressive tbh. 

[mackem10]

26 minutes ago, samrnpage said:

At the end of the day, if you're not misogynistic, the inclusion of women's football doesn't bother you.

If you find yourself upset by the inclusion of women's football, it’s genuinely a character issue.

Nothing about the current situation that Sports Interactive, SEGA, and FM25 find themselves in has been caused by women’s football being added in. However, because of your misogyny, you want others to believe that it has—and you start spreading misinformation about it taking resources to validate your views.

More people will likely play the Women’s leagues than some of the leagues already in the database, and Sports Interactive even created a whole new department for it. These two points alone invalidate nearly every argument made against it.

I can guarantee that every argument posted by these misogynistic butthurt snowflakes against adding women to the game has already been countered and debunked in these threads.

I know someone whose daughter is incredibly excited about the chance to manage the Arsenal women’s team, as she’s part of the youth setup there. How dare anyone suggest we should deny that opportunity just because she happens to be female.

There isn’t a single valid reason why women’s football shouldn’t be part of the most realistic and comprehensive football simulation game in the world. 

Finally, I believe the moderators should make a post clearly explaining this stance on the subject and nip it in the bud

Women's inclusion in the game is not a debatable subject and It's not a subject we should be debating on these threads. Its just nice people telling hateful snowflakes to shut up and stop spreading hate and misinformation. 

 

Crikey.