FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[Brentford Alan]

7 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Excel would explode and be unusable if you're at the point of hundreds of data points in hundreds of thousands rows.

I can't see it being anywhere near as simple, or as quick to edit, as you're thinking. There's likely thousands of researchers making changes simultaneously all the time.

I think it'll be hosted somewhere and able to be edited by everyone at the same time. Do you think researchers all get their own shot of it to edit it or do you think it's all happening simultaneously?

I genuinely think you're massively misunderstanding just how much data FM has. Think about how much is entered about one single player than expand that over the ~90000, clubs in the game, then add in managers and staff too, then add in the excess data that builds agents/media, then add in financial details for all the clubs, and you're still not near the total.ampunt of information it has to hold.

Now double that for the woman's game, and calculate how much data will have been entered for that over years, and how many changes have been made to men's football since the last data change to FM24, then add in changes that have been to include stuff F.M25 has that FM24 doesn't. 

And you think that's just saved somewhere and you just double click on an old FM24 file and up pops excel and you just start changing details and a week later it's good to go? 

To me it won't be nearly as simple as you're thinking, at all. I've dealt with massive files before with my work and they're just totally unusable and unreliable if you're trying to use them like that.

 

Re the bold statement - this is correct. A couple of us researchers have left some insight in the linked thread.

It may be possible for the database whizzkids at SI to manipulate the database in it's current state to work on FM24 with minimum fuss, I genuinely have no idea. I suspect though we'd need to roll back to the last 'FM24' back up point and start again, that means remembering circa 5 months work and trying to get 5 months work done in a matter of weeks by a team very largely composed of volunteers who have full time jobs, families, some will likely have planned things like holidays around the deadlines we've previously been given etc etc.

My personal favoured route in an ideal world would be data updates for FM24 (I'd even be prepared to pay a small amount for them) and SI skip through to FM26 in a years time, but I just don't see it being realistically achievable for a number of reasons.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

10 hours ago, Hansaplast said:

Wow... what a crash landing 
 

The heat death of the universe will be like that for sure.

[bella699]

Dear Miles!

How can this happen??????. I don´t trust SI anymore. 2 weeks ago, you have set a release date and pre-order of the game, well known that FM25 won´t be ready for it????.

I don´t think it is a disaster, that FM25 was pushed back to march 2025. You did it with CM4 i 2002. CM4 was released on 28th of march 2003. The game was full of bugs and crashes, and was not that good, until you released CM season 03/04. I think the release of CM4, only happended, because of Eidos fiscal year, and If the story repeats, FM25 will get the same story, and will be a betaversion for FM26, because of SEGAs fiscal year. When you began to tell about all the things, you have to take out of the game, I was sure, that SI was in deep trouble with the developement of FM25. I have been a loyal fan of CM/FM since the Amiga days with Championship Manager 1, so I have been there all the way, until now.

To gain mine and many other fans´ trust again, SI should at least release a 24/25 season database for FM2024, because of all that mess you have been up to, with the release date and pre-order!!!!!!!

A loyal Fan!

Edited Monday at 10:53 by bella699

[Micho21]

I may be alone in this, but I prefer not having any kind of update if it's paid for. It's not a matter of being stingy, I will certainly buy FM25 (and FM26, even if are released closely), but opening the door to paid DLCs is not a good long-term idea imho.

[permaculture]

will just join the chorus of voices saying that, with some sort of explanation of what's happened, i'd probably purchase FM25.

while the WIP screenshots/ad/preorder/delay debacle has been painful to watch, i think its important to reserve some judgement as far as intentions go. instead of assuming malice, i can see some instances where even internally FM25 was on shaky ground. consider: international management is removed due to few players utilizing this feature. however, women's football revolves almost entirely around the international game. also consider: if the goal of adding women's football is to bring new FM players into the fold - how wise is it to remove the simplest management mode? when i started playing this game 15 years ago, the contracts, staff, recruitment, etc was all so much that i started with international management.  meanwhile, as far as we could tell, they hadn't even included historical international women's data in with the players. i was actually quite looking forward to seeing that side of things this week, delay or not!

this is just one potential example of how they had a 'finished' game, but decided time was needed to rehash some things. if someone at SI would simply stand up and assure us that they didn't just make an ad and WIP shots in order to steal some pre-orders, it would do a world of good! keeping everyone on ice for 3 months would do a lot of damage - moreso than releasing the game in March. and fwiw its not that much of a killer if you don't start managing at the very top - i've had my longest FM save ever this year (working through the german league pyramid) and i started in May.

[GunmaN1905]

For everyone talking about "football universe" and how it's only right for women's game to be in, can you explain why is FM24 still at only 36 out of 55 UEFA leagues in the game?
Most of those missing leagues have a big following, enthusiast groups that do the research and add them via editor, how hard could've it been to add them over the years for the immersive football world?

Because if you didn't care about a lot of true fans, you have to admit that women's game looks like something that's being added just for the inclusiveness factor since mainstream games FM wants to push itself into already have it.

While I'm all for adding women's game and every possible league that can be added from both genders, it just doesn't add up. Especially with the exclusion of NT football.

Edited Monday at 19:04 by GunmaN1905

[XaW]

2 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

For everyone talkinga bout "football universe" and how it's only right for women's game to be in, can you explain why is FM24 still at only 36 out of 55 UEFA leagues in the game?
Most of those missing leagues have a big following, enthusiast groups that do the research and add them via editor, how hard could've it been to add them over the years for the immersive football world?

Because if you didn't care about a lot of true fans, you have to admit that women's game looks like something that's being added just for the inclusiveness factor since mainstream games FM wants to push itself into already have it.

While I'm all for adding women's game and every possible league that can be added from both genders, it just doesn't add up. Especially with the exclusion of NT football.

SI have said several times why some leagues are in and some are not. Essentially it boils down to interest and how many would be interested in doing research.

So it seems there are too few people who are signing up to do research in those countries, and overall how many people in those countries who actually buy the game. Those are things that seemingly factor in other than general football level and real life global interest.

[GunmaN1905]

Just now, XaW said:

SI have said several times why some leagues are in and some are not. Essentially it boils down to interest and how many would be interested in doing research.

So it seems there are too few people who are signing up to do research in those countries, and overall how many people in those countries who actually buy the game. Those are things that seemingly factor in other than general football level and real life global interest.

That's from 6 years ago.
A lot of those leagues have their own updates, as I already mentioned and the competitions are done well.

Even if the player research isn't perfect, there's no reason not to add the leagues. As if weaker leagues already in the game have perfect research and as if it really matters considering the level of those players.

[XaW]

Just now, GunmaN1905 said:

That's from 6 years ago.
A lot of those leagues have their own updates, as I already mentioned and the competitions are done well.

Even if the player research isn't perfect, there's no reason not to add the leagues. As if weaker leagues already in the game have perfect research and as if it really matters considering the level of those players.

Yeah, it's old, but it's the one I have bookmarked!

I think it would hurt more to remove any league rather than add a new one, so I think it's a matter of "if it's already included, we need to keep it". This is me guessing though, and trying to read between the lines.

Though, I'm also one who would like to see more leagues, so I'm playing devils advocate here.

[Dbuk1]

There should be no updates as they are already delayed. Concentrate on the future. The update you will get will be fm26 as they will have no time between 25 and 26 to do anything big except a database update.

[diLLa88]

Honestly, in hindsight I'm of the opinion it's been really poor decision making to implement women's football in this year's edition, considering they knew in advance that this would be a whole new game with a whole new engine. Due to the delays right now it's very easy to point at it as one of the reasons for the delay even if it is completely not the case. In addition, if FM25 turns out to be terrible (which is pretty likely at this point) there is once again fuel to point at women's football being the culprit.

I think it would have been better to introduce it in a version that is at least stable and working. Would have been a lot less controversial.

Edited Monday at 12:50 by diLLa88

[southside]

It would be the decent thing to do releasing an update considering the mismanagement of the release of FM25 and the lets be honest shady asking for pre orders when knowing the game wouldnt be ready. Have to laugh at the few calling folk asking for an update entitled haha. SI must absolutely adore you the way you just accept anything they throw down to you. Its been a right few years now of poor communication and thats before you even get to some of miles interactions wjth people at times

[Defensive]

FM24 is fantastic, i have no problem at all with the delay.

I feel sorry though for some people who are here just fo find everything about FM miserable. What do they do the next months? Just 3 more months stating that they dont like womens football?

[southside]

33 minutes ago, Defensive said:

FM24 is fantastic, i have no problem at all with the delay.

I feel sorry though for some people who are here just fo find everything about FM miserable. What do they do the next months? Just 3 more months stating that they dont like womens football?

You dont even find some of their decisions and communication about fm25 and timescale a bit iffy no? They love you mate lol

[BJG123]

1 hour ago, diLLa88 said:

Honestly, in hindsight I'm of the opinion it's been really poor decision making to implement women's football in this year's edition, considering they knew in advance that this would be a whole new game with a whole new engine. Due to the delays right now it's very easy to point at it as one of the reasons for the delay even if it is completely not the case. In addition, if FM25 turns out to be terrible (which is pretty likely at this point) there is once again fuel to point at women's football being the culprit.

I think it would have been better to introduce it in a version that is at least stable and working. Would have been a lot less controversial.

Yes, it should have been done in an earlier version, or a later version.  Tying the 2 single biggest changes the game has seen in probably 20 years together is incredibly naive. 

[spursfan]

1 hour ago, diLLa88 said:

Honestly, in hindsight I'm of the opinion it's been really poor decision making to implement women's football in this year's edition, considering they knew in advance that this would be a whole new game with a whole new engine.

 

4 minutes ago, BJG123 said:

it should have been done in an earlier version, or a later version

It's actually the perfect time -- to make everything new again.
I suspect that coding-wise it would be an even bigger nightmare to lay something new first, then another new thing (which works differently).

Just that after two decades some among us are too used to 'the way things used to be' 
Blaming doesn't help. and never has.

Communication is shoddy, which is a separate issue to the actual delay itself.

Once again I invite everyone to consider the bigger picture. 

[DSYoungEsq]

16 hours ago, G81 said:

Because not praising it IS an example of misogyny,  a literal dictionary definition one.

Uh, no.

From Merriam Webster:

Quote

hatred of, aversion to, or prejudice against women

Not praising something is not the same as indicating hatred of, or aversion to it.  It's not a dichotomy.  Indeed, saying something so simple as you are indifferent to it is not an example of misogyny.  

Edited Monday at 14:22 by DSYoungEsq

[forameuss]

1 hour ago, southside said:

It would be the decent thing to do releasing an update considering the mismanagement of the release of FM25 and the lets be honest shady asking for pre orders when knowing the game wouldnt be ready. Have to laugh at the few calling folk asking for an update entitled haha. SI must absolutely adore you the way you just accept anything they throw down to you. Its been a right few years now of poor communication and thats before you even get to some of miles interactions wjth people at times

You do realise there's a chasm between "accepting anything they throw down to you" and the sort if entitlement that has people talking about "deserving" things from SI?

You paid for FM24, you got what you paid for. You haven't paid for FM25, and still don't have to if you disagree with how SI have handled it. Why exactly do people feel they deserve anything beyond that? That's not even remotely defending SI. They've made an arse of things, and I expect they'd agree on that. 

[Craigus89]

1 hour ago, Defensive said:

FM24 is fantastic, i have no problem at all with the delay.

I feel sorry though for some people who are here just fo find everything about FM miserable. What do they do the next months? Just 3 more months stating that they dont like womens football?

We've found Miles' alt account.

Edited Monday at 14:31 by Craigus89

[southside]

25 minutes ago, forameuss said:

You do realise there's a chasm between "accepting anything they throw down to you" and the sort if entitlement that has people talking about "deserving" things from SI?

You paid for FM24, you got what you paid for. You haven't paid for FM25, and still don't have to if you disagree with how SI have handled it. Why exactly do people feel they deserve anything beyond that? That's not even remotely defending SI. They've made an arse of things, and I expect they'd agree on that. 

There is such a thing as goodwill towards your customer base. SI owe that to people who buy their product year in year out in some cases for multiple decades. The last 2/3 editions of FM havent been great feature wise and were released with fairly significant issues. Miles himself said Fm24 wasnt as they would have hoped for. If it was a case of look weve made a balls up fair enough by taking on too much. But they have advertised pre orders in a timescale were it is obviouslly known by them the game isnt going to be released anywhere near november. It is simple goodwill to offer an update even for a reduced price if needs be as a show of good faith towards the customer base which has been very patient with them in recent years

[spursfan]

36 minutes ago, southside said:

There is such a thing as goodwill towards your customer base. SI owe that to people who buy their product year in year out in some cases for multiple decades. The last 2/3 editions of FM havent been great feature wise and were released with fairly significant issues. Miles himself said Fm24 wasnt as they would have hoped for. If it was a case of look weve made a balls up fair enough by taking on too much. But they have advertised pre orders in a timescale were it is obviouslly known by them the game isnt going to be released anywhere near november. It is simple goodwill to offer an update even for a reduced price if needs be as a show of good faith towards the customer base which has been very patient with them in recent years

I would not ask/demand to be served in suit and tie with 3 star Michelin standard when the kitchen is on fire. 

[southside]

13 minutes ago, spursfan said:

I would not ask/demand to be served in suit and tie with 3 star Michelin standard when the kitchen is on fire. 

Ive no idea what your talking about here

[Dadecane]

Havnt read much except the last page so I guess my opinion has already been shared but; I say scrap fm25, give us an updated database for fm24, and please drop a damn near classic game with fm26. Thats it. 

[millwalldan]

I'm as gutted as everyone to learn that fm25 will be delayed until March.  Like others have said I'd be more than willing to pay a small amount (£5-£10) to fully update fm24 allowing us to start the season a year later.  I'd probably even be willing to pay for it aswell as pre ordering fm26 (a bonus or reward for our custom and continued support)

 

The question really is is it possible or likely?

Fm24 is a great game and possibly the most polished version in the series so far in my opinion amd will continue to give me and others many more hours of entertainment on top of what's already been clocked, it's just disappointing how this has unfolded, but I'm hopeful  (until told otherwide) SI will find a way of doing something like ive mentioned to ease the pain...

[Chooxen]

Talk of a FM24 update is pretty optimistic. If they were doing to do this, they'd have announced it alongside the delay to cushion the blow. What's more, it doesn't make business sense for them to do it.

If they release this season's database for free or near enough into FM24, why are you going to pay for the same database in a probably buggy FM25 three months later? Some will, but probably a lot will wait the six months til FM26 comes out where a lot of the teething issues may be fixed.

The only way they do this is if FM25 is cancelled. Then they either release a free database as a gesture or goodwill or re-release FM24 with an updated database and new skin as 'FM25' for like £20 or something. Depending on what they think they can get away with.

You're not getting an FM24 database update unless things go REALLY tits up.

[davehanson]

If FM25 gets cancelled, there won't be an FM26.

[pedrosantos]

Okay, it is delayed, move along people, there's nothing to do about it. What is lacking is more clarification by SI, we have all read the the post regardind the delaying, we can all believe in good spirit in the apologies, that is not even the point. You (SI) cannot just open pre-orders, announce November 26th and a few days later kick fm25 until March and go silence until late January (at least).

[janrzm]

Despite the announcements there is still an information vacuum IMO. The last statement was very brief by SI standards. I’d like to think they are getting their heads together and preparing something that can settle the community nerves and go some way to mitigating the loss of confidence following what can only be described chaotic and unfortunate couple of weeks.

[anagain]

33 minutes ago, janrzm said:

Despite the announcements there is still an information vacuum IMO. The last statement was very brief by SI standards. I’d like to think they are getting their heads together and preparing something that can settle the community nerves and go some way to mitigating the loss of confidence following what can only be described chaotic and unfortunate couple of weeks.

It's delayed until March. I'm not sure what else they need to say.

[janrzm]

6 minutes ago, anagain said:

It's delayed until March. I'm not sure what else they need to say.

It was delayed until November not that long ago…….so I don’t think many are as blasé about it as you. There are plenty of unknowns still, especially as that raises the issue of two versions within 8 months of each other if they’re trying to get back to November releases.

Edited Monday at 20:09 by janrzm

[BJG123]

5 hours ago, spursfan said:

 

It's actually the perfect time -- to make everything new again.
I suspect that coding-wise it would be an even bigger nightmare to lay something new first, then another new thing (which works differently).

Just that after two decades some among us are too used to 'the way things used to be' 
Blaming doesn't help. and never has.

Communication is shoddy, which is a separate issue to the actual delay itself.

Once again I invite everyone to consider the bigger picture. 

I run large engineering teams. It is definitely not easier to launch a replatform with a brand new, huge feature at exactly the same time than it is to do the replatforming first, taking the upcoming feature into consideration, but launching the new feature at a later date.

Because SI are limited to annual major releases, I can understand why they wouldn't want to delay a major feature by a year if they didn't feel they needed to, and hindsight is always 20/20, but still feels like unnecessary risk to me.  I'd only justify it with my products if I thought there was a serious revenue risk of launching a new version of FM without a massive feature.

[BJG123]

Sure there's lots of flaws in this idea, and to be viable they'd likely have needed to pivot weeks or months ago (when it was obvious FM25 was at major risk) but what I'd love to see is:

 

FM25 launched on the old platform. Take FM24, update the data, add the new licences for the PL and others. We get what is essentially a data update on FM24, but it was a good version of the game IMO, and I'd pay decent money for this if it was out in Jan or early Feb. 

FM26 launched in July or August, or even just in the normal FM timeframes.  Make this what FM25 was going to be, women's football, unity platform, with 25/26 data.  If that also gives enough time to bring back international football and shouts, amazing. 

The current plan makes me minded not to buy either.  FM25 feels like it'll be a mess even by March, and if it is, I wouldn't be confident in FM26, either. 

[anagain]

1 hour ago, janrzm said:

It was delayed until November not that long ago…….so I don’t think many are as blasé about it as you. There are plenty of unknowns still, especially as that raises the issue of two versions within 8 months of each other if they’re trying to get back to November releases.

I'm not blasé about anything. When we know we'll know.

Not like you can change anything.

[Roy Race 9]

19 hours ago, spursfan said:

Should? I don't know about that.
Would? I don't see that coming anytime soon.
Could? probably, but it's already been done, so why duplicate efforts?

How about FM25 and future versions, who could/should/would do that?
It's SI for all three, and no one else.

I'd rather they focus on what they are set up for to do, no more scope for distractions/excuses -- that's the big picture.

yes they should 100%

and there lays the problem no competition

 

[spursfan]

18 minutes ago, Roy Race 9 said:

yes they should 100%

and there lays the problem no competition

 

 

18 minutes ago, Roy Race 9 said:

it's already been done, so why duplicate efforts?

As mentioned above.
If you want to remained pissed in your own anger and frustration it's your prerogative.
I'd much rather channel mine to becoming a better player.

Peace out. 

Edited Monday at 22:49 by spursfan
just saying

[Roy Race 9]

5 minutes ago, spursfan said:

 

As mentioned above.
If you want to remained pissed in your own anger and frustration it's your prerogative.
I'd much rather channel mine to becoming a better player.

Peace out. 

I am just making what I see as valid points and raising valid questions I am none of the above,I am not making any judgement on your comments and how that comes across, its your opinion and your entitled to it 

there are far more  things going on to invest my energy and effort in, this is a game that's all it is, but one people have to pay for so we are all entitled to our opinions

As regards FM25 I have no issue with it not happening at all

cheers

 

[spursfan]

1 hour ago, Roy Race 9 said:

I am just making what I see as valid points and raising valid questions

Already been made and raised several times by your good self -- the latest was merely a restatement on your part, which added precious little to the conversation.

Not to mention that the fact that there already are updated databases done was left unaddressed.

Why was there a need for such a restatement and reiteration?
I don't know tbh, that's definitely not within my ambit.  

[kiwityke1983]

7 hours ago, janrzm said:

Despite the announcements there is still an information vacuum IMO. The last statement was very brief by SI standards. I’d like to think they are getting their heads together and preparing something that can settle the community nerves and go some way to mitigating the loss of confidence following what can only be described chaotic and unfortunate couple of weeks.

Especially seeing as their mooted new timeframe for gameplay reveals isn't until late January which is only potentially 4 or 5 weeks away from a release.

Unless they plan to release towards the end of March, which would be 5-6 weeks from the end of the season.

That more than anything else makes me think the game is currently in a pretty terrible state, and the November release was never happening.

[jcafcwbb]

    

The thinking behind the data update is what is best for SI and its employees. Every business has set backs and this could deliver a quick win so to speak and get customers back on side and off their back. I do not think the people we pay licences for will care as long as they get their money as per the contract signed -why would they? All that is needed is a bit of negotiation. 

Have you considered the considerable strain it will put on the SI Games employees to get out FM25 in March and FM26 in November? It would be better to cancel FM25 and rename FM26 to FM25. It will give them a year to get the game out and lessen crunch. My gut feel is they are under pressure from Sega to get income in before the end of their financial year and that is the only reason we have FM25 releasing in March. That would be better realised by having paid updates for the FM24 game. I feel it would be far easier to produce updates and have FM25 releasing November 25 than having it release March 25.

In answer to your obvious question - I would pay for a data update if it was needed to support SI but I wonder if Sega could support this game by allowing them to do it for free. 

Edited yesterday at 06:21 by jcafcwbb
Removed unwanted text

[Pasonen]

1) Relieved that FM25 was moved 25 march to match quality standards!

2) Worried how moving date of release will affect bug reporting, testing and patching rhythm.

[grade]

2 hours ago, jcafcwbb said:

    

The thinking behind the data update is what is best for SI and its employees. Every business has set backs and this could deliver a quick win so to speak and get customers back on side and off their back. I do not think the people we pay licences for will care as long as they get their money as per the contract signed -why would they? All that is needed is a bit of negotiation. 

Have you considered the considerable strain it will put on the SI Games employees to get out FM25 in March and FM26 in November? It would be better to cancel FM25 and rename FM26 to FM25. It will give them a year to get the game out and lessen crunch. My gut feel is they are under pressure from Sega to get income in before the end of their financial year and that is the only reason we have FM25 releasing in March. That would be better realised by having paid updates for the FM24 game. I feel it would be far easier to produce updates and have FM25 releasing November 25 than having it release March 25.

In answer to your obvious question - I would pay for a data update if it was needed to support SI but I wonder if Sega could support this game by allowing them to do it for free. 

As much I like the game to be delayed to September, from that point on going always for September release for me, makes more sense...

HOWEVER, this is big however. SI contractually can't do that, because Sega has its fiscal year in March. They are probably under contract to produce yearly game.

I'm kinda ok, if FM25 is beta for FM26, and is release in March. As long FM26 comes out in October and November timeframe, and is a more of clean game, and only has one new features like International Management, I'm happy person... 

As long both games includes the editor, no matter how buggy it is. 

With that said, it what really bad how SI handle FM25 the last couple of weeks. How can someone release a release date and 10 days later... sorry my bad the game is delayed... 5 months. They need to appease the masses, they are bit disgruntled with SI at this point.

Will they do it something to appease the masses... NO, don't think so. They will remain quiet until January and with luck the beta testing starts early (sorry Advance Access is stupid name (sorry for harsh wording) for what it really is, we are beta testing the game) like later January or Early February... but my pessimistic side says, it will be more early or middle of March, with the release date around the March 28th.

[dℍaisa]

On 14/10/2024 at 17:36, GunmaN1905 said:

For everyone talking about "football universe" and how it's only right for women's game to be in, can you explain why is FM24 still at only 36 out of 55 UEFA leagues in the game?
Most of those missing leagues have a big following, enthusiast groups that do the research and add them via editor, how hard could've it been to add them over the years for the immersive football world?

Because if you didn't care about a lot of true fans, you have to admit that women's game looks like something that's being added just for the inclusiveness factor since mainstream games FM wants to push itself into already have it.

While I'm all for adding women's game and every possible league that can be added from both genders, it just doesn't add up. Especially with the exclusion of NT football.

Let's discuss India in FM for a moment. India in football manager is quite unique because its top tier, where 99% of its national team players compete, and which holds 85% of the total view share, is completely absent. This has been the case for 5 years now. Having a country represented inaccurately like this is truly disappointing on a whole other level.

[kevhamster]

On 14/10/2024 at 13:50, diLLa88 said:

Honestly, in hindsight I'm of the opinion it's been really poor decision making to implement women's football in this year's edition, considering they knew in advance that this would be a whole new game with a whole new engine. Due to the delays right now it's very easy to point at it as one of the reasons for the delay even if it is completely not the case. In addition, if FM25 turns out to be terrible (which is pretty likely at this point) there is once again fuel to point at women's football being the culprit.

I think it would have been better to introduce it in a version that is at least stable and working. Would have been a lot less controversial.

I totally get what you're saying, as a lot of people are taking this as the implementation of women's football being the sole reason for the delays, purely because it suits their agenda.  It would perhaps have been a better look to introduce the new engine first, but that's purely now with the hindsight of the development difficulties we're now aware of.

 

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, dℍaisa said:

Let's discuss India in FM for a moment. India in football manager is quite unique because its top tier, where 99% of its national team players compete, and which holds 85% of the total view share, is completely absent. This has been the case for 5 years now. Having a country represented inaccurately like this is truly disappointing on a whole other level.

They've said in the past there's licensing issues with them putting the Super League in.

[Ventricity]

There´s a video of one of the developers talking about their change to unity. it´s a long video where he shows how they design it and the challenges they had to face. however there were alot of things that surprised me. The unity move is "only" changing the interface and graphics engine. they are not changing the decades old codebase, only porting it over. So the game will actually work the same under the hood. But what surprised me was him saying that changing this code that they have worked on for 20 years would take too long, like another 20 years. This is just complete nonsense. Game programming have progressed alot and FM is not that advanced. Mostly it´s the game simulations that is complex. In other words, they have a lot of technical debt that makes them afraid to make any real innovations to the game.

Edited 20 hours ago by Ventricity

[-Jef-]

26 minutes ago, Ventricity said:

 FM is not that advanced. Mostly it´s the game simulations that is complex. In other words, they have a lot of technical debt that makes them afraid to make any real innovations to the game.

What? FM is THE most advanced sports simulator in the market. No other simulator comes even remotely close. Just because it doesn't look as good as nba 2k, fifa or pes..does not mean it is less advanced. There are so many algorithms and AI under the hood...for transfers, interactions, financials, economy, weather, rivals, different countries, regens, progression, regression etc etc etc that many of these games simply do not have or have been broken for years on...some issues in NBA 2K are still existent from the 2000s...

[armbi]

5 hours ago, grade said:

. but my pessimistic side says, it will be more early or middle of March, with the release date around the March 28th.

I'm not that pessimistic, considering secrets of the roadmap and other deadlines trikcs the premiere date announcement will be on February 30th.

[autohoratio]

1 hour ago, Ventricity said:

But what surprised me was him saying that changing this code that they have worked on for 20 years would take too long, like another 20 years.

I think he meant that starting over and rewriting all of the code in a more modern form or in a different coding language (Unity-native C# instead of C++) would take that long.

[sufcdan]

Do the decent thing and just announce whether there will or won’t be an official data update for FM24

At this point it’s the very least you could do so either way we know

The silence from miles and in general is deafening

Some accountability goes far

[Icy]

18 minutes ago, sufcdan said:

Do the decent thing and just announce whether there will or won’t be an official data update for FM24

At this point it’s the very least you could do so either way we know

The silence from miles and in general is deafening

Some accountability goes far

While I agree in general that the silence after the announcement is not helping them at all, probably they are just trying to analyze and control the damage already done. Is it better to remain silent until the storm is over or should they say something more... that might make things even worse? I won't like to be in their shoes, don't know the correct answer.

Having said that, SI has never said anything about releasing an updated database, it was us users asking for it. So they don't have to confirm or deny something they have never mentioned as en even remote possibility.