The Final: Spain vs England live from the Olympiastadion, Berlin. BBC1 AND ITV1. Sunday 8pm

[arenaross]

 

 

[Rick87]

Sad to think that Baddeil and Skinners song that sang of 'thirty years of hurt' will now be thirty years old itself when the 2026 WC rolls around. 

Special anniversary edition incoming.

Edited July 15 by Rick87

[TalkSport]

8 hours ago, enigmatic said:

It was. Point is, the runner was on for half an hour and (through no fault of his own) didn't get in behind once. 

In that time we scored a shot from distance in a move which didn't involve the runner and more importantly failed to stop the opposition scoring the winner which would appear to be the actual reason we lost

Seems odd to conclude it would have been different if only we'd had him on the pitch for longer

 

 

Watkins pushed them back though in that time we pressed. Nearly made Caravjal concede a one on one when Watkins put him under pressure, but he somehow got himself out of jail.

Issue was, when we got the goal, we sat off again, but this time with a gap in midfield, so there was a big disconnect and easy to be played through. 

[TalkSport]

8 hours ago, PaulHartman71 said:

I don't think it would have mattered as I think Southgate would have started Walker no matter what, but if White had been playing on the right with Saka I think we'd have looked better too.

Grealish and Rashford obviously had **** seasons, but both would've been more effective even as subs than what we had on the left hand side. I can only assume he didn't trust/rate Gordon, in which case you might as well just take Grealish, Rashford or even Sterling.

Not a case of rating/trusting him, more it was a clear tactical stance by Southgate to concede having nothing on left to have more in the middle/right.

Grealish/Rashford would’ve had Eze minutes in the other games, but wouldn’t have been coming on loads. 

Carajval will never have an easier game at RB. Guy was bad on the ball, but was able to smoke cigars because he had no-one attacking him, just Bellingham on occasions which he must’ve been laughing at.

[mrw072]

8 hours ago, sc91 said:

That's it, the second you actually put it on Spain, they were all over the place, gaps coming the defense, midfield absolutely not having an idea where to go, and low and behold England scored a quite deserved goal.

Horseshite that other teams had chances they could have buried, welcome to football, England equalised and then took the foot straight off a Spanish side they'd give the run of the field for 60 minutes and then now had them all in a panic.

**** poor management, and going 'oh well, they were the best' is absolutely copium, you had them vulnerable, weak, open and on the ropes and then sat back after equalising, baffling.

The Italians were the same but at least have quality in defense to fend off such attack, but my word, we say people see football through different lenses and it might be my slight bias to following a team where stats don't tell the story, but they were absolutely there, wide open, ready to be beaten.

I think under Southgate England aren't a team that are going to pressurise opponents with attacking football. So even if the Spanish were a bit vulnerable at times England weren't going to make them pay. I certainly think he's made some bad tactical decisions.

Anyway, for me Spain were deserving winners throughout the tournament. So am pleased for them, but obviously wished England had been a bit more adventurous and gone and won it. 

[oche balboa]

Spain were the better side and deserved the win, We wasn't really positive enough and after we scored we went back to defensive. A lot of our players were found wanting. Kyle Walker was at fault for both of the goals, Foden & Saka were very poor. Kane was way too slow for the game. Palmer and Watkins came on and were a lot better. Rice has been poor for the last two games

It should be the end of Gareth Southgate, We rode our luck to get to the final and we was found out a little bit in the end. He's achieved good things for England and i think he should step aside and allow a better tactician to get more out of these players. 

If Spain had a striker they would be massively the best side in the world. Williams was excellent for them.   

[Coulthard's Jaw]

I guess the days of 30m tuning in for these games is gone.

[eenie]

6 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

I guess the days of 30m tuning in for these games is gone.

I do wonder what the pub attendance was like last night. Pretty big I reckon.

[titchuk]

4 minutes ago, eenie said:

I do wonder what the pub attendance was like last night. Pretty big I reckon.

A pub near me reached capacity and stopped letting people in at 3pm. Everywhere I saw was packed.

[Bigwig]

The pub round the corner from me suddenly started charging £10 entry for the final. Walked past yesterday afternoon and it was rammed.

Also took the dog for a walk this morning and there were pools of sick on the pavement. Nice. 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

What a horrible bit of play this was  

[Smallen]

Pickford’s distribution really is horrible. Dyche has ruined it because it really wasn’t this bad before. He just wants to launch it every time.

Like, mate, you’re not playing with James Tarkowski and Michael Keane now. You can pass John Stones the ball, he’s pretty good.

[Darren Moores Mum]

6 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

What a horrible bit of play this was  

That encapsulates our whole tournament tbh. From the first game we knocked it sideways a bit before going back to Pickford to lump the **** out of it.

[ajw10]

7 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

What a horrible bit of play this was  

Kyle Walker has really cost us at key moments. Awful person too

[Darren Moores Mum]

Anyway, angrily removing my wall chart is about the extent of my motivation today. What a shitter.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

2 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

Kyle Walker has really cost us at key moments. Awful person too

I know most of the alternatives to him at the moment are either crocked, old or don't get on with Steve Holland, but this felt like a tournament too far for him.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

4 minutes ago, Smallen said:

Pickford’s distribution really is horrible. Dyche has ruined it because it really wasn’t this bad before. He just wants to launch it every time.

Like, mate, you’re not playing with James Tarkowski and Michael Keane now. You can pass John Stones the ball, he’s pretty good.

Watching him lump it up to Kane who didn't even challenge for the header let alone win it made me sad.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

3 minutes ago, Darren Moores Mum said:

Anyway, angrily removing my wall chart is about the extent of my motivation today. What a shitter.

The novelty of the wallchart having England in the latter stages has worn off now hasn't it  

[blueglobefootball123]

11 hours ago, enigmatic said:

They were a lot better than Italy in 2020

(or for that matter France in 2021 or Croatia in 2018)

Only team ever to win seven games at a Euros in normal time too, and whilst none of the teams they've beaten have performed brilliantly I don't think you can argue they've had an easy draw.

Against Germany was extra time wasn’t it? Everyone says that they won every game but wasn’t the qtr final a draw (after 90mins)?

[Darren Moores Mum]

3 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

The novelty of the wallchart having England in the latter stages has worn off now hasn't it  

Not even written the Final score in. Have that, Spain.

[TalkSport]

16 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

What a horrible bit of play this was  

We did that in the first half too  

[arenaross]

There's such an easy pass out left for Pickford there as well. Sigh. 

[JJ72]

3 minutes ago, blueglobefootball123 said:

Against Germany was extra time wasn’t it? Everyone says that they won every game but wasn’t the qtr final a draw (after 90mins)?

Yes. I've already had Germans pointing out they didn't lose (in normal time) to the eventual winners like us. 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

1 minute ago, arenaross said:

There's such an easy pass out left for Pickford there as well. Sigh. 

Thanks for pointing that out. Bloody hell.

[mrmeee17]

4 minutes ago, blueglobefootball123 said:

Against Germany was extra time wasn’t it? Everyone says that they won every game but wasn’t the qtr final a draw (after 90mins)?

Doesn't fit the narrative as well though.

[eenie]

13 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

Kyle Walker has really cost us at key moments. Awful person too

Think the blame for this particular passage of play is 100% on Pickford for lumping it to (a non-existent) Sarge rather than playing the easy pass out to the left.

Unless you're blaming Walker for passing it to Pickford in the first place, knowing that Pickford's distribution has been utterly horrific for the whole tournament, in which case play on  

[Bootador]

2 minutes ago, arenaross said:

There's such an easy pass out left for Pickford there as well. Sigh. 

I think my "favourite" Pickford moment was just after the Spain goal where the ball came to him and he launched it first time as if the ball was on fire, and out of play.

I know we need an equaliser mate, but that's not how you do it. Calm.

Pickford was brilliant fwiw as an actual goalkeeper best since... well I'm sure how far to go back but I think you could put a case for him being a better goalkeeper than every England gk we've had since i started watching football in 1990

[Coulthard's Jaw]

4 minutes ago, Bootador said:

I think my "favourite" Pickford moment was just after the Spain goal where the ball came to him and he launched it first time as if the ball was on fire, and out of play.

I know we need an equaliser mate, but that's not how you do it. Calm.

Pickford was brilliant fwiw as an actual goalkeeper best since... well I'm sure how far to go back but I think you could put a case for him being a better goalkeeper than every England gk we've had since i started watching football in 1990

The thing is the way Pickford plays will give him an easy ride from the media, a keeper who is better/more confident on the ball but has the odd blunder (because that is the nature of playing that way sometimes) gets absolute dogs abuse from everyone.

[ajw10]

9 minutes ago, eenie said:

Think the blame for this particular passage of play is 100% on Pickford for lumping it to (a non-existent) Sarge rather than playing the easy pass out to the left.

Unless you're blaming Walker for passing it to Pickford in the first place, knowing that Pickford's distribution has been utterly horrific for the whole tournament, in which case play on  

I think the throw in is the worst part of that passage of play

 

[TalkSport]

7 minutes ago, Bootador said:

I think my "favourite" Pickford moment was just after the Spain goal where the ball came to him and he launched it first time as if the ball was on fire, and out of play.

I know we need an equaliser mate, but that's not how you do it. Calm.

Pickford was brilliant fwiw as an actual goalkeeper best since... well I'm sure how far to go back but I think you could put a case for him being a better goalkeeper than every England gk we've had since i started watching football in 1990

Can’t remember if it was at 1-0 or a scoreline afterwards. Pickford got the ball, could’ve played it short, went long and we immediately lost it (again) and because players had to sprint up, people were all out of position so it was a simple pass through the middle, then inside to Yamal where he made a good save. All from his own doing  

[Barry Cartman]

2 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

I think the throw in is the worst part of that passage of play

 

Just before he throws it, Mainoo (it think?) stood there right outside the box in loads of space for a simple throw

It summed up England's approach all tournament 

Edited July 15 by Barry Cartman

[eenie]

4 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

The thing is the way Pickford plays will give him an easy ride from the media, a keeper who is better/more confident on the ball but has the odd blunder (because that is the nature of playing that way sometimes) gets absolute dogs abuse from everyone.

I think he's had quite a lot of stick from the media in the past for being... erratic, but now that's he's unquestionably England's number one he seems to get a slightly easier ride of it. Probably helps that there aren't many rivals for that #1 spot.

[Barry Cartman]

Also remember when we scored a goal from a Walker long throw near the corner, yet it was better to launch it 30 yards back towards our own goal 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

2 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

Just before he throws it, Mainoo (it think?) stood there right outside the box in loads of space for a simple throw

It summed up England's approach all tournament 

The mentality is just off isn't it? Not thinking about how to score a goal, panicking about being dispossessed and being done on the counter.

[eenie]

1 minute ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

The mentality is just off isn't it? Not thinking about how to score a goal, panicking about being dispossessed and being done on the counter.

As Barry says, it sums up England under Southgate this entire tournament (and earlier, tbf). Fear of losing despite being absolutely stacked with talent.

[eenie]

8 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

I think the throw in is the worst part of that passage of play

 

It was terrible. But I still think Pickford's HOOOOF out for a goal kick was worse given that he was under zero pressure and had an easy 30 yard pass out left to a guy who was himself in 20 yards of space.

We can definitely agree that the whole thing was dreadful.

[Bootador]

THE WORST PLAY WAS THIS AT 90 MINUTES EXACTLY, can't find the clip on twitter but watch it here (3:16:45 on the video)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00215xy/euro-2024-final-spain-v-england?seriesId=m001tk7n-1-final

Edited July 15 by Bootador

[oche balboa]

6 minutes ago, Bootador said:

THE WORST PLAY WAS THIS AT 90 MINUTES EXACTLY, can't find the clip on twitter but watch it here (3:16:45 on the video)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00215xy/euro-2024-final-spain-v-england?seriesId=m001tk7n-1-final

I didn't realise it at the time but that was terrible 

[TalkSport]

30 minutes ago, TalkSport said:

Can’t remember if it was at 1-0 or a scoreline afterwards. Pickford got the ball, could’ve played it short, went long and we immediately lost it (again) and because players had to sprint up, people were all out of position so it was a simple pass through the middle, then inside to Yamal where he made a good save. All from his own doing  

65:30 the incident, but I was wrong on the build up, it was just simply as a result going long, despite Bellingham pleading to go short  

 

[PaulHartman71]

1 hour ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

What a horrible bit of play this was  

Ruined my morning even more reminding me of this  

What the **** is Walker doing passing it back to Stones and not sticking it into the box?! Why is Pickford just smashing it long when he’s got options available?! 

We’ve just scored and have some momentum, a throw in in an attacking position and it ends back in our half then going for a Spain goal kick  

[PaulHartman71]

Like why’s he passing it to Stones??  

[eenie]

The only defence (and it's not a criticism of Mainoo) is that Mainoo doesn't exactly show for the ball there, just walks into space just after Walker goes to throw it. He could have looked a bit more lively, perhaps?

[Coulthard's Jaw]

PL game and if nothing else you're throwing it short to Saka there without thinking.

[eenie]

1 minute ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

PL game and if nothing else you're throwing it short to Saka there without thinking.

Yep, drop it into his feet and you're winning a free kick or he's moving it back to Walker or onto Mainoo and you're in business.

But fear of losing possession and getting done makes players do negative things. And that fear comes from the manager down.

[thefmveteran86]

What an absolute muppet

Linky

[The_jagster]

That throw was awful, but England tried to play out plenty of times and couldn't do it, eventually having to clear it long to a Spanish defender, under no pressure from Kane of course. Or sometimes to a midfielder because they were hemmed in at the goal line.

It's why I'm not that annoyed with Pickford, the mentality was bad throughout the team.

[Ackter]

England don't cross the ball at all.

Not really surprising with Kane as the target.

[TalkSport]

That's just standard Walker at club level there though? Throw it backwards, get the ball under possession to entice opposition out and it's cycled left and right.

Nothing wrong IMO throwing that backwards at 1-1, when we had momentum and control of the possession and swing at that point.

Edit: There's 15 minutes left, plenty of time. Just we went into our shell as the seconds went by and aimlessly gave it away more.

Edited July 15 by TalkSport

[eenie]

5 minutes ago, InigoPatinkin said:

It is by far Mainoo's biggest flaw tbf, although it doesn't clear Walker of any blame obviously. 

Yeah I've not seen enough of him to judge myself, but in that clip he definitely looks a bit... switched off? There's an argument for making a late movement but you can't wait until Walker has taken a couple of steps to wind up for a big throw backwards before moving into space  

[The_jagster]

9 minutes ago, InigoPatinkin said:

It is by far Mainoo's biggest flaw tbf, although it doesn't clear Walker of any blame obviously. 

Take him out of the mentoring group with McTominay then!