smeagoltonez
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Posts posted by smeagoltonez
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On 27/07/2021 at 11:20, Hilly1979 said:
His attributes for the Winger Attack role are higher than both Moura and Bergwijn despite them being rated far better by coaches, I am now 3 seasons in.
Are they good with both feet & Clarke isn’t? I find that inflates a coaches opinion of a player’s ability. And have they been in good form like the other posters have suggested?
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2 hours ago, zyfon5 said:
Coach report take into account game form. So if you have a player that is in good form, it will inflate the coach rating. I had players fluctuate from 5 star world class player to 3 star leading league player (real rating is probably close to 3.5 stars)
1 hour ago, zlatanera said:I second this.
I have a great 24-year old newgen DL on my current save, he's fully reach his potential (I checked with the editor, but my coaches have said so for about 6 months) and is rated - rightly - as World Class.
But age 21 he was also rated World Class and that was mostly because he averaged 7.81 in Serie A (which then led to him picking up 4 caps for Italy) - attribute-wise he was 3-star at best (although similar to the wingers people mentioned earlier, immense physically).
Thanks guys!
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9 minutes ago, Chief232 said:
If he's hitting numbers like that then yeah for sure, that'll massively contribute. If you have the National League loaded as playable(simulated leagues, such as non playable ones, calculate ratings differently), 7.2 is probably amongst the better players in the league haha. Wouldn't be shocked if he was up for an award, or maybe he won top goalscorer? All of those things would have likely an effect on his reputation and that might even come into play a bit with coach reports, although his performances are the most likely thing when it comes to those. I just had a player in my last save getting a 7.8 in the Macedonian league, and my scouts overrated him like crazy, saying he'd be my best winger when he'd genuinely be a third choice winger at best for me. Went to the Netherlands and has only been OK and he dropped a star in my scouts eyes in like two months!
Reputation is an incredibly weird thing at times in FM but it's rather important for basically everything as well...as I said, I imagine if he was in contention for any awards that would play a role. The difference in rating from a 7.0 to a 7.2 in FM is surprisingly big so a 7.02 might not be good enough to "stand out" if that makes sense. It may be a more gradual gain in reputation for players like that, but it is tough to say. I wouldn't worry about it TOO much, the higher reputation for Bohui will probably just benefit you if you're looking to get some money out of him. Cheers and good luck on your save!
@Hilly1979
If Clarke is better as a Winger Attack then I wouldn't hesitate using him there. I imagine Bergwijn developed a little as well, and they're both more well rounded and Bergwijn more two footed than Clarke so I would probably rather have them cutting in/playing more creative roles than Clarke. That'll help them in the views of the coaching report - which is almost trying to gauge a players "overall" rating, but yeah, three years in I think Clarke probably could be a better pure winger than both, despite what your coaches say.
Thanks again, it all makes for more sense now & I'll watch out for it in the future!
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2 hours ago, Chief232 said:
@smeagoltonezHow well has Bohui played on loan? Solid performances can seriously boost how good a player is in the eyes of your scouts/coaches. Even an average rating of over 7 could have a pretty large impact. If he hasn't changed that much, his CA hasn't gone up by much and he doesn't really fit into your side, I wouldn't worry about keeping him. I'd personally be interested in giving him a shot as his pace alone is a massive asset at that level(L2/L1?) and he seems to have pretty decent potential but I wouldn't base his current rating off my scout/coach's reports, except for what they say about his consistency and how good he is in big matches, and I agree with your assessment that right now hes all pace. If you're not really gonna use him I'd try loan him to league two and I wouldn't be surprised to see his attributes start to really climb and then maybe you could reassess it again.
@Hilly1979 Curious which players you think he is better than. Looking at Clarke I do think there's a player who's attributes can make him very useful in specific roles right off the bat, more or less a pure winger who can finish, but he definitely takes a bit of a hit because of some of his mental attributes (concentration, decisions in particular but also teamwork vision and workrate), and his long shots and passing are pretty low for a wide forward. In the prem I'd probably only use him as a winger on attack for example. Again though if you can find a use for him, try it out as the coach reports aren't perfect and as long as players have the right attributes for what you want them to do it'll usually work out. I've had plenty of players over-perform their coach reports over the years, and I've had others over-perform their attributes.
I think that you're definitely onto something here. I just looked at one of the other hopefuls that I sent out on loan to the Isthmian Premier league. He played 26 times & scored an average rating of 7.52 for the season. His attributes haven't changed & Genie Scout tells me that his CA has improved by 1 point but my coach now rates him as a Vanarama National League player (whereas previously he was a Vanarama North/South). This is despite him only playing in the Isthmian Premier & enjoying no attribute increases.
So it really does seem that playing well in a far lower league gives my coaches an inaccurate opinion & inflates a player's ability in their eyes?
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46 minutes ago, Craigus89 said:
Never trust what your coaches say about wingers, I've had so many reports from 18CA 19PA scouts who say a guy is 4 stars but his attributes generally are terrible, but he has 17 acc and pace. It seems to be weighted far too heavily for wingers.
Generally, you're a far better judge by using attributes to compare against other players in your team, the league, and you know your system and what attributes are needed for what roles. Pretty much ignore stars, coach ratings etc. The only useful coach items are the ones that tell you about consistency, injury etc.
I agree, they seem to love speed (rightly or wrongly). It's just that this player has always had 15 pace & acceleration but was only regarded by this coach as a National League player. A year later & after a decent performance in that the National League, my coach believes him to be a leading League 2 player (after no increase in attributes).
I ignore the stars etc but am just trying to better understand what's made my coach change his mind so drastically.
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1 hour ago, Chief232 said:
@smeagoltonezHow well has Bohui played on loan? Solid performances can seriously boost how good a player is in the eyes of your scouts/coaches. Even an average rating of over 7 could have a pretty large impact. If he hasn't changed that much, his CA hasn't gone up by much and he doesn't really fit into your side, I wouldn't worry about keeping him. I'd personally be interested in giving him a shot as his pace alone is a massive asset at that level(L2/L1?) and he seems to have pretty decent potential but I wouldn't base his current rating off my scout/coach's reports, except for what they say about his consistency and how good he is in big matches, and I agree with your assessment that right now hes all pace. If you're not really gonna use him I'd try loan him to league two and I wouldn't be surprised to see his attributes start to really climb and then maybe you could reassess it again.
@Hilly1979 Curious which players you think he is better than. Looking at Clarke I do think there's a player who's attributes can make him very useful in specific roles right off the bat, more or less a pure winger who can finish, but he definitely takes a bit of a hit because of some of his mental attributes (concentration, decisions in particular but also teamwork vision and workrate), and his long shots and passing are pretty low for a wide forward. In the prem I'd probably only use him as a winger on attack for example. Again though if you can find a use for him, try it out as the coach reports aren't perfect and as long as players have the right attributes for what you want them to do it'll usually work out. I've had plenty of players over-perform their coach reports over the years, and I've had others over-perform their attributes.
Yes! He had an average rating of 7.20 over the course of last season. He was played as a striker & scored 21 goals in 42 matches. He also got 8 assists & 9 POM awards.
So that would explain why he gained an increase in reputation? He now has the joint highest world rep (1.5 stars) in my squad along with 2 of my experienced players who are internationals for their country. So the coach is judging him as a 'leading League 2' player because he performed well in the National League & enjoyed an increase in his reputation? That's strange!
Even stranger is the fact that the rest of my squad enjoyed a full season in League 2 & didn't get an increase in world rep (one of those is an experienced international in his prime & had an average rating of 7.02 but still has a world rep of 1 star).
I've had a couple of other young players who are now rated far better by my coach (no world rep increase though) but they have played many games in League 2 & have had clear attribute boosts - wahoo!
Just for the record, I'm not concerned about who a higher reputation, I'm just trying to figure out how the AI comes to its conclusions.
Thanks again for your great reply.
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Thanks, some good points there.
The part that has me most confused is the coach's description of the player now being a 'leading' League 2 player whereas he was only rated as a Vanarama League player. Espcially as he's now rated better than some of my alternatives for that posoiton who I feel are better (albeit a little slower). I always took more notice of these written descriptions (compared to the stars anyway). Am I wrong to do so?
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Hi guys,
Just as I think I'm beginning to get a good grip on understanding the game a spanner gets thrown in the works! The spanner in this case is a 21 year old winger with good potential. Here are his attributes at the beginning of my save:
My best judger of CA says he's 'operating at Vanarama National level' & gives him 3 stars. He won't get into my first team (even as a sub) due to his attributes & I considered whether to sell or get him a decent loan but then got a loan offer from Barnet who are in the Vanarama National League. They promised to play him as a winger & give him first team football so I went for it.
I then went on holiday for a year to test & my coach now tells me that Bohui is a 'leading' League Two player despite him still being 3 stars & still not possessing attractive attributes.
Now I know stars don't mean much so I looked at his progress report for the past 12 months & it shows this:
The attribute numbers are exactly the same. So he's not really improved at all? FM Genie Scout tells me that his CA has increased by 2. Would this explain why he's gone from a 'Vanarama National level' player to a 'leading' League Two player despite not actually having an increase in attributes? But then, I don't think that coaches & scouts can see the CA so what gives? I noticed that his reputation has increased since his loan move. Could that be it?
I know that I should ignore coach reports but I'm just trying to better understand how the game works.
Thanks for any help & insight provided!
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2 hours ago, Erith22 said:
det 14. It may be screaming into the void, but obviously player development should not be done at 22. He's a winger, and the game itself says players shouldn't peak for several more years.
I suppose that you're not allowing for the element of 'chance' in your calculations/expectations. That relatively low ambition would also hold him back as its equally as important as professionalism & determination amongst morale & training facilities as mentioned by @Seb Wassellhere:
Just a few posts above @Seb Wassell also says:
'Determination, Ambition and Professionalism all contribute exactly the same amount towards the progression score. However a certain progression score does not guarantee a certain level of progression. A progression score only gives the player a certain chance of achieving a certain level of progression. This chance ranges anywhere from 0% to 70%. As such two players with identical attributes could develop very differently. Similar two players with very different attributes could develop identically. In this way it is not possible to reliably test a single attribute's impact on progression through simply collating and monitoring a data set.'
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35 minutes ago, zlatanera said:
I think I’m even more confused after reading that haha
To summarise the discussion I linked, height doesn't matter at all. It's purely cosmetic. The attribute 'jumping reach' has already taken height into consideration therefore, a 5 player who is 5’7” with a jumping reach of 11 will reach the exact same height as a 6’3” player with a jumping reach of 11.
I think that it may have been different in earlier installments of FM when the attribute was called 'jumping' & not 'jumping reach' but I'm not certain about that.
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8 hours ago, zlatanera said:
I'm still a bit in the past on FM19 - although given this is an FM18 thread technically I'm in the future
Anyway, this is copy-pasted from the Online Manual
If you guys have something more recent that supersedes it, by all means please share I'm not out to win an argument.
8 hours ago, Chris2509 said:Honestly I think your quote actually supports what has been said by others and myself - the jumping reach attribute already factors in the height. But I can see why it might be confusing, they worded it rather poorly.
Sorry if I’m coming across as argumentative, I’m just trying to help people avoid a common misconception that previously caught me out. ✌️Yes I agree, the online manual confirms that ‘height’ doesn’t matter, only the jumping reach counts. You can see it being discussed here:
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10 minutes ago, Chris2509 said:
I'm not sure you're right about this, the description of the attribute is "reflects the highest point that a player can reach with his head", so this should be an absolute term - regardless of height (i.e. 11 jumping reach gets you to the same point off the ground, no matter how tall or short you are).
Yes, that's correct, the height is purely cosmetic & only the jumping reach counts for how high a player can reach to head the ball.
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On 24/07/2021 at 13:55, IbrahimAliMaher said:
Last season I won the Bundesliga title and had the fifth best record for defending against corners. I used the exact same set up for defending corners, which was/is:
Since then in the season just finished I used the exact same set up. The only real differences in terms of personnel:
- I sold my best jumping CB (16) and loaned a guy from PSG (jumping 15)
- I brought in a LB who is better in the air than all of my CB (jumping + heading 16) who I started to switch with one of the weaker CBs when I noticed we were leaking so many goals
The overall results though were pretty alarming:
What gives? Is it just the AI susses out your set piece routines after a few seasons? I used pretty well the same tactics over the last 15 seasons but had some issues with conceding lots of goals from the near post a few seasons back, so I changed by men on the posts to mark zonally rather than just marking the posts and this seemed to work. Any obvious weaknesses in my set up?
Watch the replays & find out what's going wrong. Are the players who you expect to be first to the ball actually winning it? If not, check attributes such as aggression, determination & bravery & compare those to your last CB who you sold. Perhaps they aren't being outjumped but outfought in the air? How about positioning, concentration & anticipation? If they win the ball, are the team scoring from the second ball? If so, consider their heading attribute, if it's poor then they may be winning the ball but heading it straight back into danger.
Checking the replays will tell you if there's a pattern & what's going wrong. Also, check that you're not conceding more set pieces than you were previously. If your opponent is getting more set piece opportunities then the probability of them scoring also goes up.
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On 21/07/2021 at 00:52, zlatanera said:
@ElJefe4 just to be completely ornery, I'm going to say he's a centre-back
In fairness, I have recently become quite a fan of centre-backs with low Aggression but not Bravery. He's 6'3" so the 11 Jumping Reach is still good, I'm on FM19 and most newgen centre-backs such at heading so I wouldn't be too put off by 11 for that either. Or the 10 Technique given he's great at Passing and has good First Touch too. You do definitely need that Anticipation up though. Low Aggression + high Anticipation makes for a defender who gets a lot of interceptions, but if he has low Anticipation too he'll just be left behind and not willing to assert himself to get involved again.
r.e. the game time - I'd look at who in Eredivisie is going to take him. You want him to be a first team regular at an established top-half side, as players need high ratings to develop so it would do him no good to be a Key Player at someone like FC Emmen, whereas First Team at Alkmaar would be great.
I thought that the jumping reach already takes into account a players height? If so, his height doesn’t matter, it’s just window dressing for immersion purposes. I believe I’ve read that a player who is 5’7” with a jumping reach of 11 will reach the exact same height as a 6’3” player who also has a jumping reach of 11. This players lack of aggression would also hold him back in being the first to get his head to the ball (if all else is equal between him & a more aggressive player).
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On 11/06/2021 at 14:47, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:
Possibly. Playing an English club and a lower league side are probably the most common request.I actually made the decision to re-run the save. Firstly, I am not particularly experienced at motoring through the football league system so I learnt a lot during my first run through which I would now like to apply. Secondly, I was using an unofficial update which unbalanced the game. Ole Gunnar Solksjaer got Manchester United relegated playing an obscure 3-1-5-1 and retrained Aaron Wan Bassaka as a striker
I've become a lot more pragmatic tactically and had to be a lot more resourceful in attracting the right players. Essentially it's almost a pre-cursor to this thread; building the foundations of a football club which took Benfica to the level they are in this save.
If I do go ahead with a thread, I would want to make it as replicable as possible; not relying on getting lucky with newgens or lucrative cup runs.
Good guess!
Not bad for a semi-professional, non-league side
Which unofficial update were you using? I hope I’m not using the same one! Perhaps you could PM me if you’d rather not list it here? Unless it was one not hosted n this site? Thanks
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2 hours ago, Pompeyboyz said:
Honestly, you most likely won't get too much in terms of better regens coming through from the lower leagues as from a certain point the reputations and youth facilities will be pretty poor. If you are starting at League 2, you are better using the vanilla database down to Vanarama N/S. But if you want a bit more variations in the clubs that could climb through the ranks, then this file will be a godsend as I love seeing clubs from the non-league appearing many years down the line. Now, those clubs that rise through the ranks, will most probably improve their facilities so they might produce the odd decent player. But that will be years down the line...by which time you might be Premier League and scouring overseas anyway.
Fantastic reply, thank you!
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Hey guys,
I have a question for you:
I’m managing in League 2 & aiming to get promoted within the next couple of seasons. In your opinion, is it worth me restarting my save but adding these leagues so that I can (potentially) pinch high potential regens from the leagues below? Do you get any regens with the potential to make in League 2 & above? Will these leagues add high value to my experience despite the fact that I won’t be managing lower than League 2 in this save? I’d probably only add a couple of leagues below the Vanarama South/North.
Thanks!
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11 hours ago, eXistenZ said:
I just move the players that need to be mentored to my main squad to set up montor groups and make them available for U18
A good idea but I read that it causes your youth players to miss a lot of training due to travelling for youth games & resting.
You can see it being discussed here:
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Thanks guys, I'll try & find a suitable loan for him then.
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Hey guys,
I have a question for you:
I’m managing in League 2 & aiming to get promoted within the next couple of seasons. In your opinion, is it worth me restarting my save but adding these leagues so that I can (potentially) pinch high potential regens from the leagues below? Do you get any regens with the potential to make in League 2 & above? Will these leagues add high value to my experience despite the fact that I won’t be managing lower than League 2 in this save? I’d probably only add a couple of leagues under the Vanarama South/North.
Thanks!
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46 minutes ago, CybrSlydr said:
Very few natural WMs in FM. So I've been thinking, who should you look to convert? CMs who are B2B for their workrate or FB/WBs for their crossing/defense?
I'm leaning towards FBs as they already have a side preference vs having to develop one.
Thinking for a 442.
I suppose it’s probably a case-by-case situation depending on the players that you have (or can get) to covert. It also depends on how much crossing you want them to do & things like corners & long throws too. FB/WBs are likely to be better at these things but are usually hardworking with stamina too.
On the other hand, I often read that other FM players find that there’s a lack of quality wing-backs in the game so converting ones of those may not be the wisest of choices?
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Just now, obasa_G said:
From my experience, players still develop very well even if they are loaned to a team in a league that isn't loaded.
Clubs that are in unloaded leagues still play league and cup matches. The only difference is, the matches in unloaded leagues are simulated using the quick match engine (Please, someone correct me if I am wrong). All that matters is that the player should be:
1. Loaned to a team in a league that is equal or greater than his current level(you can check is report card to know the division he is currently operating at).
2. Loaned to a team with good training facilities.
3. Loaned to a team that will start him regularly.
Thank you for your great reply. As I'm managing in the lower leagues, usually only requirements 1 & 3 are possible. I think poor training facilities probably still beats sitting on the bench for me once the player reaches the age of 18? Especially considering my facilities aren't much better!
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Hi guys,
I have a 22 year old goalkeeper who has a decent potential star rating (4 stars) but his ability is only 2.5 stars). Usually I’d consider this age to be too late for an outfield player to reach his full potential (in FM at least) but I know that in real life, this is considered a young age for a goalkeeper. Does Football Manager reflect this? Do goalkeepers have more time to make significant development?
Thanks.
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Signing Players to Act as Mentors
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted · Edited by smeagoltonez
It's great to read that about McShane as I felt a little dishonest when I did this myself in my save but reasoned that it would happen in real life. I'm pretty sure footballers at the end of their careers would happily join a more repeatable club (especially one like Man Utd) & enjoy the facilities as well as doing a bit of mentoring & coaching rather than dropping (far) further down the football pyramid. Noble at West Ham is currently doing something similar (although he's still club captain & a squad player) but Snodgrass stated that he had a similar role before being transferred to West Brom.
Anyway, I tried this out in League 2. I signed (saved) a veteran defender (Darren Ward) & agreed that he would be an emergency back-up player & then stuck him in the under 18s. We agreed a wage of £160 per week so it was a small gamble. He'd previously dropped down to the Vanarama South so I figured that this, along with his 'Professional' personality, would stop him from complaining. His World Reputation was 5 silver stars (rated 'okay') which matched the WR of my under 18 players. I'd have preferred it to be higher so that he was more influential but oh well. He had 2 stars for ability though which was joint highest in my under 18 squad so that gave him more influence. His personality was 'professional' which isn't the very best but still better than 'fairly determined' or 'balanced' which made up the personalities of most of my under 18 squad.
Upon signing on 12th July 2020 , he found himself alone in the 'others' social group & didn't appear at all on the under 18s hierarchy but I figured this would change after a settling in period. I could have made him captain of the under 18s which would have seen his influence increase at a quicker rate but I forgot & went 'on holiday'.
After returning from my holiday on 12th June 2021, I found that Ward is still all alone in the 'others' social group but was made captain by the under 18s manager & is now at the top of the hierarchy in the position of 'team leader'. Wahoo! However, his mentoring influence on the youngsters is still 'light' & he has had no impact on the determination of those that he is mentoring despite the estimated effect being 'significant'. I think this could be because he was not in any of their social groups & many of the players now have a better World Rep than him. However, some of my other players did experience an increase in determination so Ward's presence could have helped the squad as a whole but then again this could be a coincidence.
Could I have seen better results if Ward wasn't alone in his social group? I think so yes. Perhaps I could have signed some youngsters at the same time so that he shared a social group with those he was mentoring.
Did his ability & lower WR have a negative impact? Probably, maybe a slightly better player with a higher WR would have had more influence but then they may have complained about their lack of playing time.
Would have been better if I'd given him a couple of games for the Senior Squad? Possibly, but I'm not sure whether he'd have liked being dropped back into the under 18s squad afterwards.
Would a model citizen personality have achieved more? Probably
I think the way forward in FM21 is to find youngsters with good personalities & potential & supplement them in the under 18s with multiple experienced players such as Ward & McShane to influence the overall squad personality.