Bliss Seeker Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 17 minutes ago, Lucas said: Not like we were great in all those tournaments either were we? Been similar arguments against him for the majority of his tenure. We've been ALOT better than we have in the past 4 games. It was too structured at times, but never this bad, never this clueless, never this inept, not even close. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 3 minutes ago, Pukey said: I'm really confused how people think this year is like the other tournaments. I know we weren't thrill a minute, but we looked so much more organised and with a clear plan. This year has been woeful, and I've not seen anybody argue otherwise. Yeah Tbf I think 2018 Southgate was 10/10 until the Croatia game. since then he was mediocre in 2021/22, but it was better than this **** show Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Iconic Bellingham moment was amazing, but no one comes out of that game with any credit, dire all of them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo7 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 1 minute ago, Barry Cartman said: Iconic Bellingham moment was amazing, but no one comes out of that game with any credit, dire all of them Ah come on, Mainoo & Toney have credit surely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 "We had enough attacking players on" scarily basic level of thinking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 He's not wrong really. We shouldn't be subbing Jude or Kane off unless we winning comfortably. But counter to that is they should be playing much much better then have been which is down to him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillHoward42 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 10 minutes ago, Gizmo7 said: Ah come on, Mainoo & Toney have credit surely. Saka too, Walker not at all attempting to overlap him all game was infuriating left him isolated so often, but he was still doing what he could Guehi for me still been one of our standouts, he’s made a couple of mistakes (but that says more about the lack of players turning up, that he’s one of our better performers) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haguey Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Good job he left them on to score the two goals really, great management. I think he's earned this bit of smugness, but I swear Waistcoat if you do this again... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Or he could put out a side with much better balance which actually creates an occasional clear cut chance, rather than having to rely on special moments out of nothing. Cos that's what it was. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallen Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 yeah, you don’t take Bellingham or Kane off when you need a goal. You can take Foden, Walker, Mainoo or Rice off pretty easily and justifiably though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 (edited) You keep them on if the team is playing well enough to carry them, but both of them were a massive part of why the team were awful Toney gets an assist so can say he did something, but the subs had no impact on the side either, so it isn't as simple as saying Palmer and Gordon should be starting, something huge is just fundamentally wrong Edited June 30 by Barry Cartman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkSport Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Fair leaving Bellingham one as he got the goal, but we were carrying him for large parts of that game. Better sides see the job off with how much space there was once again in the middle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo7 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 1 minute ago, WillHoward42 said: Saka too, Walker not at all attempting to overlap him all game was infuriating left him isolated so often, but he was still doing what he could Guehi for me still been one of our standouts, he’s made a couple of mistakes (but that says more about the lack of players turning up, that he’s one of our better performers) Would have to disagree with Saka. Guehi has been superb, but was at fault (twice) for Slovakia’s goal today but looked to have picked up a knock shortly before. Will definitely be a miss not having him for our next game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallen Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 I’ll keep beating the drum but Gordon should be starting and it would fix a lot of the problems. He’s the only non-ball to feet attacker we’ve got who will actually run away from the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkSport Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 In all the drama, I forgot about the Walker / Stones mix up and that player missing what is in professional football a near open goal attempt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceefax the cat Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 He must have been so frustrated when we changed to 541 specifically not to bring him on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo7 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 I really hope we see some rotation next game. It doesn’t need to be sensationalised as “dropping” player X. Just look at Germany last night with Wirtz sitting out. Not an issue, in comes Sane, happy day. When you have the luxury to do so, and we absolutely do, rotation is key. I agree that next game Gordon should start instead of Foden. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jagster Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 3 minutes ago, Smallen said: I’ll keep beating the drum but Gordon should be starting and it would fix a lot of the problems. He’s the only non-ball to feet attacker we’ve got who will actually run away from the ball. It won't, literally every attacker looks rubbish playing for England. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwig Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Yeah it’s hard not to advocate for Gordon without coming across as a Newcastle fanboy but he really should be starting, or at least coming on as an impact sub. He’s had a fantastic season in a position we’re struggling with and just ticks all the boxes for what we’re missing, but he’s constantly overlooked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallen Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Just now, The_jagster said: It won't, literally every attacker looks rubbish playing for England. because, as I said, they’re all trying to do the same thing and occupy similar spaces. The dynamics change and it’s no fluke that we’re miles worse without a Sterling/Rashford/Gordon profile in the team. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc91 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Southgate can have this one, got a stag do on the weekend and the majority of the lads are England fans, the Saturday night was in danger and Gareth pulled through. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astafjevs Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 I'm going to keep saying this.... These attackers all gave France a game 2 years ago. The very same players. It's more than just 'play Gordon, play Gordon, play Gordon!!' 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jagster Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Just now, Smallen said: because, as I said, they’re all trying to do the same thing and occupy similar spaces. The dynamics change and it’s no fluke that we’re miles worse without a Sterling/Rashford/Gordon profile in the team. No, I include times we've played Sterling and Rashford. Sterling would generally be terrible all game but pop up with a goal like Bellingham today. Like, the theory is right. But we are so slow that we'll just give it to Gordon and with no space he'll kick it past the defender and run into him to try and buy a free kick every time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 41 minutes ago, Pukey said: I'm really confused how people think this year is like the other tournaments. I know we weren't thrill a minute, but we looked so much more organised and with a clear plan. This year has been woeful, and I've not seen anybody argue otherwise. Maybe we were bad in the other tournaments and even worse now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillHoward42 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 9 minutes ago, Gizmo7 said: Would have to disagree with Saka. Guehi has been superb, but was at fault (twice) for Slovakia’s goal today but looked to have picked up a knock shortly before. Will definitely be a miss not having him for our next game. Felt like Stones was at fault for going for the header with Guehi? Wouldn’t put that on Guehi myself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliss Seeker Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Watching Stones pass to Guehi, and Guehi passing it back to Stones, for Stones to pass it back to Guehi just reminded me of that walking football episode of Father Ted. It's so slow, it's just walking. Damn we miss Harry Maguire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo7 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Just now, WillHoward42 said: Felt like Stones was at fault for going for the header with Guehi? Wouldn’t put that on Guehi myself They sort of both went for the first ball but then Guéhi didn’t track his man, who went on to score. Wasn’t great from either of them tbh. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted June 30 Administrators Share Posted June 30 56 minutes ago, Rob1981 said: I mean, for the most part? Yes we were. If you think this year is “more of the same” you haven’t been watching closely enough. We were organised, sure. But we were crap at the World Cup on the way to the semis. Only got as far as we did then due to set plays. The last Euros run was better, but we have always played below our potential. Besides the point though, because I think what you can say we don’t really have in this tournament side are clear cohesive patterns of play when attacking. We had that before though. Gone backwards under Southgate there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Whilst Kane and Bellingham are a huge part of the problem, at least they have a few goals. Stones, Rice and Foden have been so dire on the ball, Stones just looks like someone playing on 1 leg rather than bringing the ball forward and threading a forward pass like he does for City Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallen Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 6 minutes ago, The_jagster said: No, I include times we've played Sterling and Rashford. Sterling would generally be terrible all game but pop up with a goal like Bellingham today. Like, the theory is right. But we are so slow that we'll just give it to Gordon and with no space he'll kick it past the defender and run into him to try and buy a free kick every time Sterling has been a 1 in 3 winger under Southgate (I think it’s 18 in 54), which is pretty good tbh. Rashford a similar ratio. Foden? 4 in 37. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallen Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Astafjevs said: I'm going to keep saying this.... These attackers all gave France a game 2 years ago. The very same players. It's more than just 'play Gordon, play Gordon, play Gordon!!' think we had a left back then though. This system would be fine if we had a left footer there running beyond and getting crosses in from the byline. Edited June 30 by Smallen 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted June 30 Administrators Share Posted June 30 2 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said: Whilst Kane and Bellingham are a huge part of the problem, at least they have a few goals. Stones, Rice and Foden have been so dire on the ball, Stones just looks like someone playing on 1 leg rather than bringing the ball forward and threading a forward pass like he does for City I think today’s game the first time I saw Stones bring the ball forward and not once or twice today. That can only be coaching though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted June 30 Administrators Share Posted June 30 1 minute ago, Smallen said: think we had a left back then though. This system would be fine if we had a left footer there running beyond and getting crosses in from the byline. Wouldn’t be surprised if Saka goes to LB for this reason. Too adventurous for Southgate but I’d put TAA RB, Saka LB and instruct them to get as high up the pitch as possible. Walker can go CB to cover. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenaross Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 45 minutes ago, skybluedave said: He's not wrong really. We shouldn't be subbing Jude or Kane off unless we winning comfortably. But counter to that is they should be playing much much better then have been which is down to him Or play in a way that maximises their talents, which may involve making subs to do that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Well yeah. That's what I said. My point was, if we have to remove Jude and Kane to play well then your set up isn't right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 21 minutes ago, Astafjevs said: I'm going to keep saying this.... These attackers all gave France a game 2 years ago. The very same players. It's more than just 'play Gordon, play Gordon, play Gordon!!' Please don't encourage Rob to point out the absence of Henderson and Maguire from the lineup But really, I think it's mostly confidence. It's not just that we're playing slowly and backwards with very little off the ball movement which might be entirely Gareth's chosen tactic, it's also that even playing in slow motion against sides that often stand off they still can't pass the ball. Notably the 2018 squad which was a weaker squad playing a more conservative setup with more players obviously out of position actually seemed to be enjoying themselves under the lack of pressure, so much so we even managed to win a shootout! Even with a side that was actually good in Qatar (so good people insisted 12 in the opening four games wasn't productive enough) we had nothing to lose against France, who also didn't play the high line midblock combo that's this forward line's kryptonite (and does actually make a case for Gordon) Lucky fans and pundits have done our best to ease that, I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 1 hour ago, Astafjevs said: I'm going to keep saying this.... These attackers all gave France a game 2 years ago. The very same players. It's more than just 'play Gordon, play Gordon, play Gordon!!' A proper LB, and a balanced midfield goes a long way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astafjevs Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Just now, aggressive minor said: A proper LB, and a balanced midfield goes a long way The midfield vs. France was Henderson, Rice, Bellingham. The midfield here has been <insert player>, Rice, Bellingham. Unless you're telling me that you think Henderson is absolutely vital. I've no doubt you were one of many who wanted him dropped. Bellingham's role looks a bit different here. He's come on so much as a player, which in general terms is a good thing, but for this team I don't know if it's helping. Not sure his on-pitch personality fits well with what's been a tight group. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted June 30 Administrators Share Posted June 30 1 minute ago, Astafjevs said: Not sure his on-pitch personality fits well with what's been a tight group. He seemed petulant and frustrated at various points through the game today. But even when loads on here were saying he was crap and having a bad game, he still looked likely, determined and progressive with the ball. I wonder whether it’s the Real Madrid factor why some like him less, and also the impact on his on field personality. He was much less arrogant and more humble in the World Cup than at this tournament. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astafjevs Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 I'm only speculating obviously. I just feel there's so much tactical discussion that doesn't really make much sense given what we've seen before and the stuff I mentioned above. So I'm looking for the differences. Shaw obviously is big. And the only other difference imo is Bellingham. I just feel something is a bit off. Not tactically, but with the group harmony. Whether it's between players, or between squad and coach. Or both. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukey Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Something has definitely felt very off with squad harmony. I think I've said before, but this feels more like 2006-2010 period where players barely seemed to like each other rather than 2018-2021 where everything seemed sunshine and rainbows in terms of off the field stuff. I know it's basically a meme at this point, but you do wonder if maybe having a Henderson in there could have helped that? Maybe Grealish's dopey Labrador energy is a big miss? How big a miss is Maguire off the pitch? There was that report that Kane asked Southgate directly why he dropped Grealish so maybe it's played a bigger role than we thought? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 2 minutes ago, Pukey said: Something has definitely felt very off with squad harmony. I think I've said before, but this feels more like 2006-2010 period where players barely seemed to like each other rather than 2018-2021 where everything seemed sunshine and rainbows in terms of off the field stuff. I know it's basically a meme at this point, but you do wonder if maybe having a Henderson in there could have helped that? Maybe Grealish's dopey Labrador energy is a big miss? How big a miss is Maguire off the pitch? There was that report that Kane asked Southgate directly why he dropped Grealish so maybe it's played a bigger role than we thought? Get the feeling they're absolutely hating the pressure of being tournament favourites. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amazing Dale Watkins Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 34 minutes ago, Lucas said: I wonder whether it’s the Real Madrid factor why some like him less, and also the impact on his on field personality. He was much less arrogant and more humble in the World Cup than at this tournament. I can kinda see how having such a massive season with Real can do that to a young player, but he sure is turning into a bellend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted June 30 Administrators Share Posted June 30 1 minute ago, The Amazing Dale Watkins said: I can kinda see how having such a massive season with Real can do that to a young player, but he sure is turning into a bellend. I was really quite worried he was going to get himself sent off with the way he was acting and mouthing off, plus getting visibly frustrated with teammates for not giving him in the ball in between defenders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 6 hours ago, Astafjevs said: The midfield vs. France was Henderson, Rice, Bellingham. The midfield here has been <insert player>, Rice, Bellingham. Unless you're telling me that you think Henderson is absolutely vital. I've no doubt you were one of many who wanted him dropped. Bellingham's role looks a bit different here. He's come on so much as a player, which in general terms is a good thing, but for this team I don't know if it's helping. Not sure his on-pitch personality fits well with what's been a tight group. Well part of the balanced midfield has been Bellingham playing too far forward in that starting line up. Hendo- in that 3 the balance was better. I really cant remember if I wanted him dropped for an upgrade - possibly for sure 😅 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnzy Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 Feel Bellingham Is playing to far forward and Kane to deep and they’re both trying to occupy the same space, then you have Foden coming in every now and then and all of a sudden it’s a cluster**** Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmeee17 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 Probably mentioned thousands of times already but we are suffering from no one (except Saka) running at defenders or even just making runs behind the defence. Saka tries to, but because Kane doesn't and Foden just keeps coming inside, he gets double teamed and our attack is completely stifled. One of Kane or Foden (ideally Foden) needs to be dropped or moved to midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 Kane and Bellingham are have so many runners at their clubs… of course Gareth does something different lol ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now