Pukey Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 2 minutes ago, Astafjevs said: Spain's young guys will be better, you would think. Don't think they need to improve much to challenge for a world cup based on this tournament Obviously get the point you're making though and you're right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 12 minutes ago, Astafjevs said: If he wins he surely has to leave. It's only really downhill from there - anything less than a World Cup win will be seen as a disappointment. Anything less than a final appearance here was going to be seen as a disappointment. It won't get any more forgiving if he wins. Agree that it's downhill all the way unless he wins the World Cup (or comes incredibly close to winning in a way that's appreciated), but I don't think you could particularly blame him for fancying a crack at the World Cup especially if he wins, particularly given the players like him, the core of the squad should still be there and trying to win it isn't a completely unrealistic ambition. Think he'll consider the worst has already happened to him anyway Can't blame him for stepping down and enjoying the retirement either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astafjevs Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Regardless of whether he wins on Sunday, he's definitely earned the right to decide if he wants to continue. But I agree with Haguey on the other page, there's a danger it becomes a Joachim Low situation and just takes a bit of the gloss of what he's done. Two World Cups, two Euros is a nice symmetry. I can't think of many coaches of big nations who have gone beyond that and been OK, although I feel like the sample is incredibly small. Del Bosque, Low, Fernando Santos in recent years. Now Southgate and Deschamps. Deschamps has managed it imo (fifth tournament was the 2022 World Cup), Low not so much. Fernando Santos not so much. Del Bosque definitely not. Let's not forget that before tonight, there were already calls for him to go; already signs that he may have run his course with the team. Tonight was the first good game - the ones before this were pretty bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titchuk Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Surely Sunday is his last game regardless of the result, he either leaves on an amazing high or he's got so much abuse in this tournament (and the last to a lesser extent) that he doesn't want to stay on and I wouldn't blame him. Personally think he should leave as one of our greatest ever managers and fingers crossed he gets a trophy to confirm it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Yeah he can win and it be time for him to to go Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliss Seeker Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Still can't believe we're in another final Before a ball was kicked there was so much discussion around whether or not we had the best squad and the most talented players. And now I think we can look back and say that it was exactly that, those bunch of extraordinary players that make up our 26 man squad were exactly what made the final possible. We don't play like a cohesive attacking team, but we have so many players of the highest calibre to make a difference and change games - not just in the first xi but everyone who comes off the bench are of the highest standard. If nothing else, that's been proven, and it's nice to see that goes beyond the inflated reputation we put on them. Yea it would be nice to have seen us play like we did in that first half more often this past month, but we really need to be thankful for this generation of players being so damn good. This really may just be the proper golden generation. On Gareth, really doubt he'll stay on whatever happens on Sunday. Everything he said so far sounded like it was his last, and he's intelligent enough to know the level of abuse just isn't worth it. One good win and all the apologies people are now posting on their social medias won't fix that. Football really is unbelievably fickle. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vynal Seven Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 All this talk of abuse, has he even had that much ‘abuse’? His glaring weakness’ have been rightly criticised but I don’t think people expecting a bit more performance from the teams we’ve had is abuse. I mean, he hasn’t been turned into a vegetable or been given a catchy insulting nickname. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenaross Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Yeh it's not a patch on what poor Graham Taylor went through. People forget how brutal the press used to be in a way they simply wouldn't get away with now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 6 hours ago, Vynal Seven said: All this talk of abuse, has he even had that much ‘abuse’? His glaring weakness’ have been rightly criticised but I don’t think people expecting a bit more performance from the teams we’ve had is abuse. I mean, he hasn’t been turned into a vegetable or been given a catchy insulting nickname. People just wanted him to get rid of Kane and play a decent system with a proper left footer on the left. Oh and not play Trent or Gallagher ahead of Mainoo. Oh and make better substitutions a little earlier. He did all of that last night and **** the bed, it worked. Well done Lord Southgate for doing what any half decent manager could and should have done. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillHoward42 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 7 hours ago, ceefax the cat said: Just thinking, maybe all the England 'supporters' who have done nothing but pi$$, moan and demand his sacking throughout the entire tournament need to do one. or should consider feeling a bit embarrassed and contrite if we win it? Just at some point, in those few minutes before the great national p!$$up begins. It'd be one in the eye not just for crap England supporters, but for cr@p, spoiled, petulant football fans in general. Because football fans in general are really, really cr@p. Can't imagine how much I'd loathe them if I was a manager or player and found myself the focus of their entitled, ignorant whingeing. He was one minute from being dumped out by Slovakia. Because he waited 80 minutes to make any changes in a game where had zero shots on target. Last night, he seemed to have a plan which was executed well and he made timely changes and big calls (Kane off) when it mattered most. So good for him for some ‘finally’ good in game management. It doesn’t excuse the **** displays beforehand. Also doesn’t excuse the issues we are having with Kane not playing as a striker 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 2 minutes ago, WillHoward42 said: He was one minute from being dumped out by Slovakia. Because he waited 80 minutes to make any changes in a game where had zero shots on target. Last night, he seemed to have a plan which was executed well and he made timely changes and big calls (Kane off) when it mattered most. So good for him for some ‘finally’ good in game management. It doesn’t excuse the **** displays beforehand. Also doesn’t excuse the issues we are having with Kane not playing as a striker It's almost like he did his job last night. Let's roll out the red carpet for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkSport Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) First time yesterday where the system worked well, till Holland made the changes at half time and it went back to normal. But having nothing on the left all tournament is some plan I still don’t understand, but it’s got to the final. Yesterday it was Jude outwide. Not like Shaw changed it bar that one ball into the box, so seems a concerted effort to focus play on the centre right. Carjaval v Bellingham could be jokes for the dark arts. Edited July 11 by TalkSport Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) 9 hours ago, darren1983 said: Everyone thought it was Toney or Watkins for the backup striker spot - with how knockouts have gone taking them both has been a great call from Southgate Well yeah it likely would have been one of them before the squad sizes changed from 23 to 26. I think as soon as 26 man squads were announced everyone thought both would go? I still think they should have had way more minutes between them given how Kane's been playing but the easy call last night would have been to bring Toney on as he's been playing well, but great call to bring Watkins on. Edited July 11 by Baptista_8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 5 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said: Well yeah it likely would have been one of them before the squad sizes changed from 23 to 26. I think as soon as 26 man squads were announced everyone thought both would go? I still think they should have had way more minutes between them given how Kane's been playing but the easy call last night would have been to bring Toney on as he's been playing well, but great call to bring Watkins on. And that's certainly something he should be given credit for 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jagster Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Last night also showed up the nonsense idea that people expect England to win every game 3-0 and wouldn't be happy otherwise. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted July 11 Administrators Share Posted July 11 It was very strange, yesterday. I never doubted the team when we went behind. Only really started to question confidence going into the last few minutes with time running out. Couldn't be happier for Ollie. Absolutely buzzing for Sunday now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 50 minutes ago, JJ72 said: People just wanted him to get rid of Kane and play a decent system with a proper left footer on the left. Oh and not play Trent or Gallagher ahead of Mainoo. Oh and make better substitutions a little earlier. He did all of that last night and **** the bed, it worked. Well done Lord Southgate for doing what any half decent manager could and should have done. I just think us holding Rob to account and making him change his system has gotten us to the final, so well done us. What a moment to be alive (let's quietly forget this is our first win in 5 games), COME ON ENGLAND 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 41 minutes ago, Lucas said: It was very strange, yesterday. I never doubted the team when we went behind. Only really started to question confidence going into the last few minutes with time running out. Couldn't be happier for Ollie. Absolutely buzzing for Sunday now. I didn't either to be honest, felt very comfortable, even though we weren't good for the majority of the second half. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwig Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 It’s so pleasing to see our subs make a difference. Hopefully we won’t be afraid to take off Bellingham if he’s not performing in the final. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 I wonder how we'll line up against the Spanish. Their midfield is really several levels above what we've played so far and could totally dominate on Sunday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwig Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 I expect it will be the same. I suppose he could start with Shaw, but I think he’ll do the same as last night and bring Shaw on at half time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 4 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said: I wonder how we'll line up against the Spanish. Their midfield is really several levels above what we've played so far and could totally dominate on Sunday. We've got 4 centre midfielders in Rice, Mainoo, Foden and Bellingham and none are passengers. We could be fine. The only real change is you could bring Gallagher in for Mainoo... and really try and press Rodri, who despite being incredibly press resistant can be prone to errors when you really go for him. I don't think I'd be doing that though. The guys just need to play well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantine Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Gallagher being on Rodri... Yeah, he's getting sent off before HT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkSport Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Nothing needs changing, just needs a one off game where you tell (ideally Mainoo) to sit deeper so there’s more protection. Because when Rice presses as we did in first 10, the likes of Bellingham/Mainoo/Foden are already beyond him so if it’s bypassed which it’s easily done, there was loads of space. Ideally, wouldn’t want Olmo getting it in that area and turning with their wingers. Probably also needs Stones/Geuhi to be aggressive constantly and push into that space when we do press. Key will be just not letting Rodri dictate the game, rather sacrifice other areas if it meant he’s kept quiet, because IMO, that then turns the game into a bit of back and forth, where I fancy us more, instead of letting Spain probe and dictate tempo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 26 minutes ago, Constantine said: Gallagher being on Rodri... Yeah, he's getting sent off before HT. I might be wrong and misremembering, but I think Gallagher has done a good job on Rodri for Chelsea. Still wouldn't do it though for the final. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Mainoo should be undroppable for now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 I'd drop Rice before Mainoo, but no one should be dropped for the final now unless Shaw is fully fit to start Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jagster Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 I don't think replacing Rice makes things better overall, but he wasn't great yesterday. Then in stoppage time he did a good Rice thing which has been missing too much this tournament. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redshift Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 My only concern is some of the starters looked knackered in that game though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Foden is surely destined to score the winner, played out of position, offside goal, cleared off the line, hits the post from a screamer, he's truly going to be our Iniesta 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Anything could happen on Sunday and I wouldn't be surprised. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillHoward42 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 I know it's been mentioned numerous times and it will just never happen. But we really do need to be dropping Kane and using him as an impact player later on in the game. Watkins leading the line with pressing and just making runs into the box will change how affective we are and if we can probe, we will be asking a lot of Spain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Moores Mum Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) Kane to bundle the winner in off his arse, winning his first major trophy and winning the golden boot at the same time. Edited July 11 by Darren Moores Mum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwig Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 I don’t think Kane works as an impact player. You want someone coming in with a bit pace and/or mobility to put tired defenders under pressure so would rather Watkins or Toney (even maybe Gordon) coming on than Kane. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Kane would be a good defending a lead in the last 10 minutes impact sub as he'll be playing left back no doubt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
InigoPatinkin Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 You can't drop Rice, he made mistakes yesterday but that's because he's taking on the bulk of the responsibility in midfield. Rice made 94 passes against the Netherlands, Mainoo made 42, there's no way you can ask a 19 year old to suddenly because your recycler at the back in a major final and double his passing output. I don't think it's the role Rice is best suited to, but he's got by far the most experience doing it and nobody else in the England team really comes close. On the plus side, Mainoo did play well in the FA Cup final and you'd expect play to go something similar to that. My main worry is that Spain are much, much more dangerous down the flanks than City were, so abandoning the space there against Yamal and Williams won't be the same as doing it vs Foden and Gvardiol. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jagster Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) I think we will be playing the Netherlands role against Spain, trying to hang in there while they dominate. In a league season there is no way we outperform Spain, a one off game maybe we win Edited July 11 by The_jagster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkSport Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 I’m all in on the hype now after a few morning coffees. Players going out there with freedom to put 2021 to the back of the memories, blistering display, 3-1 win. Jubilant scenes when Dunk/Wharton come on for final 2 minutes 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Spain tires around 60-70 minutes, if we can hang on and Gareth makes the right subs, the game is there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, Barry Cartman said: Foden is surely destined to score the winner, played out of position, offside goal, cleared off the line, hits the post from a screamer, he's truly going to be our Iniesta Either that or our Lukaku... Think that's four times he's hit the post with thunderbastards in tournaments now, he's due a goal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren1983 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 4 hours ago, Baptista_8 said: Well yeah it likely would have been one of them before the squad sizes changed from 23 to 26. I think as soon as 26 man squads were announced everyone thought both would go? I still think they should have had way more minutes between them given how Kane's been playing but the easy call last night would have been to bring Toney on as he's been playing well, but great call to bring Watkins on. No. Even in the last friendly people were talking about which one would go and there seemed to be shock both went when the squad was being announced. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 4 minutes ago, darren1983 said: No. Even in the last friendly people were talking about which one would go and there seemed to be shock both went when the squad was being announced. True. 2020 we only took Kane and Calvert-Lewin 2022 we only took Kane and Callum Wilson Even though these were both 26-man squads. I'm still not sure Toney would have got in if he hadn't got the massive reputation as a penalty taker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkSport Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Rashford though. Whilst he was predominately a LW, he was the additional 3rd striker if needed. Without him, it freed up option to go with a 3rd out and out striker, or get an extra CM/Defender. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren1983 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 3 minutes ago, Rob1981 said: True. 2020 we only took Kane and Calvert-Lewin 2022 we only took Kane and Callum Wilson Even though these were both 26-man squads. I'm still not sure Toney would have got in if he hadn't got the massive reputation as a penalty taker. Nor do I. I even said when he was called up that I was shocked because his form had been awful and he had been playing through a really nasty hip injury but seems like the time has done it's job and he's looking sharper than he had been. I'm happy he did go and has been used as it's likely the only time in my life I'll see a Brentford player playing for England in a major tournament Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 2 minutes ago, TalkSport said: Rashford though. Whilst he was predominately a LW, he was the additional 3rd striker if needed. Without him, it freed up option to go with a 3rd out and out striker Very true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vynal Seven Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 2 hours ago, Barry Cartman said: Foden is surely destined to score the winner, played out of position, offside goal, cleared off the line, hits the post from a screamer, he's truly going to be our Iniesta Nah, he’d have to be player of the tournament and man of every match we’ve played for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) 34 minutes ago, darren1983 said: No. Even in the last friendly people were talking about which one would go and there seemed to be shock both went when the squad was being announced. Completely unwarranted from those people then. Edited July 11 by Baptista_8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) I think taking 3 seemed unneccessary because "he's never subbing Kane", but tbf to him he has. Dunk is the one that really stands out as "should have been a left back" Edited July 11 by Bootador Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairwad Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Didn't realise Watkins is 28 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Adam Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 I think it will be an unchanged team on Sunday. Just seems the Southgate thing to do. I've got this sneaky feeling Bellingham is going to have an absolute stormer and score an important goal. He's had a poor tournament but it just feels right against Spain in the final and instantly becoming a legend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now